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245 GM Canada dealers get the axe

The Canadian Press

Auto maker sends out letters telling them their fate; thousands of jobs stand to be lost ...Read the full article

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  1. Hugh Andrew from Canada writes: If they really want a future they will become dealers for non-detroit manufacturers. They could even contribute to speeding up the movement of new, green vehicle solutions.
  2. Jello fuel from East City, Canada writes: Interesting read, although one has to ask himself, why GM is being reactive to the dealership situation, when they could have been a BIT more proactive, IE close inefficient dealers years ago?
  3. Trev C from Orleans, Canada writes: But how is this going to help?

    It was my understanding that the dealers don't cost the automakers any money.

    Guess it will open up space for Toyota and Hyundai.
  4. Paul Marsh from Aurora, Canada writes: How expensive are the dealerships to GM? Listening to how some dealerships do not want to be on the hook for their vehicle inventory, I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that they have paid GM for their cars/trucks on their lot. If so, what is the potential savings for GM?
  5. I_Hate_David Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: it is about time. why have all those dealerships selling cars nobody wants. as another poster pointed out this should have happened years ago. i would think most will be bought by foreign car companies and will sell up to 10 times the number of units that the GM dealer sold in a year. it is time to just let the Detroit-Three slip into the sunset as many other non-profitable companies have done recently.
  6. Maximus Bishop from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Using a dealer to buy Vehicles in today's world is a backward step, lets move into the 21st Century in Canada, there are too many dealers of all of the Detroit Three in many communities across Ontario and probably Canada as well, they are a waste of time and a waste of good land that would be better served in more equal use of same land!
  7. Fred Stubbs from Canada writes: Explain to me the logic that supports eleminating your sales force when sales are down, assuming your sales force works on a commission basis as the dealers do.
  8. Sherwood Forest from Edmonton, Canada writes: Hummer, Pontiac SAAB, and Saturn 'only' dealers will be the majority that will get the letters today, plus any dealers that are poor performers.
  9. John Smith from Canada writes: GM vehicles are ridicously over priced. I priced out diesel pick up trucks recently for my business and GM was averaging about %15 more than Dodge and Ford. The attitudes of the 3 GM dealers I went to were horrible. I rolled into the dealership in my 2007 MB ML 320 CDI and 2 of the dealers wouldn't even let me take take the truck out for a test drive. Offering me instead a cheaper gas powered model. A Sales rep. from one dealership told me they dont test drive diesels because of the higher price of the fuel at the pumps. An obvious lie as diesel in now 20c a liter cheaper than gas. A Chrysler dealership in North West Brampton offered me the best service at a great price so I bought from them.
  10. Ob Server from Canada writes: GM's steep decline into bankruptcy began under CEO Smith 2 decades ago. Rather than start up a now destined to be shut down brand called Saturn, the company should have done more to REDUCE models and build cars people wanted to buy.

    It never made sense to build 77 models with hundreds of iterations in the first place. They learned nothing from the Japanese or Koreans...especially Hyundai which came to N.A. in 1984 almost folded and has since become a great brand that consumers clearly want to buy.

    GM may survive but in a very different form, much smaller and much, much more tightly managed.
  11. Doug Parmenter from Toronto, Canada writes: Have to realize the big picture, what's really going on. Doing the math, wondering if this is one of many indicators of the inequity between the US and Canada re: Obama's master plan to increase US jobs at the expense of Canada (and others)/lessen the job reduction %.

    Here's 'Government Motors', where all decisions even before the bankruptcy are now actually made in Washington, reducing Canada dealers by 43% while dealer reductions in the US will be 16.7%.

    However that doesn't tell the extent of it, because in the US they are (first) looking at closing dealers with ANNUAL sales < 35 cars. Who are those dealers and will it matter in the US? Unlike here, its common in the US to have multi brand dealers, ie; under one roof they may sell GM, Hyundai, VW, BMW etc. With GM sales that small, these dealers obviously sell other brands mostly and little effect will be felt from being cut as a GM dealer.
  12. sd c from oshawa, Canada writes: John Smith from Canada writes: GM vehicles are ridicously over priced

    Lol How about a tranny for a Mini $10,000 , thats right they don't even sell rebuild parts you have to buy a new one.
  13. Richard Head from Dildo, NFLD, Canada writes: Why does the G&M continue to shut down the blogs related to the current GM / CAW negotiations? Is the Big Bad Union getting their feeling hurt?? Then again, perhaps given the overwhelming number of comments that are opposed to any tax payer involvement with this predictable disaster is not what the other stakeholders with to hear. NOT MY PROBLEM!! GET YOUR GRUBBY MITTS OFF OF MY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS!!
  14. Jim Petse from owings, United States writes: Trev C from Orleans, Canada writes: But how is this going to help?

    It was my understanding that the dealers don't cost the automakers any money.

    Guess it will open up space for Toyota and Hyundai.

    ------------------
    Perhaps commentors need to talk to their local dealers to get a grasp on how much annually the Vehicle manufacturer pays for support for each dealership. In some cases its $100,000 or more. Lots of money go for ads, financing, literature, training etc. (just think about the warranty costs)
    Those who believe the dealers can just jump to another manufacturer are fooling themselves.
    Thousands of people will be hitting the street!
  15. K D from Canada writes: 'A Chrysler dealership in North West Brampton offered me the best service at a great price so I bought from them'.

    -------------

    Chrysler is liqudating inventory right now and has the cheapest cars and truck of any maker. No surprise you got a deal. Some GM dealers may be doing the same soon also.
  16. K D from Canada writes:
    I am very sad to see so many people hurt by this restructuring but I know its for the good of GM long term and the remaining dealers will be much stronger.

    For people looking, dealers on the axe list should have some even better deals as they have to clear out their inventory.
  17. terry mcdonald from whitby, Canada writes: Re Richard Head from Dildo.First and foremost I am also a Newfoundlander and work for GM and I am proud in both cases.However If you really are from Dildo I am ashamed that you would attack fellow Canadians in such a manner.I as a GM worker difinetely paid my fair share of taxes between working in the mines in Labrador and working for GM the last 22 years.Nefwoundlanders have taken many tax dollars in our time of need and rightly so.The difference here is the money is being loaned to GM and will be paid back.Newfoundlands share of tax base dollars is a whole lot less than the taxes paid where these plants are located.
    If you really want something to complain about start by complaining how we are getting screwed at the gas pumps again.
  18. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: Closing only 301 dealerships? Not enough as far as I am concerned.

    Kia is paying $14.50/hr. at a new plant in Georga for a better built car while GM pays $76/hr. in Oshawa......priceless.

    Put an end to this old dinosaur called GM...aka Garbage Motors

    RIP GM
  19. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Paul Marsh from Aurora, Canada writes: How expensive are the dealerships to GM? Listening to how some dealerships do not want to be on the hook for their vehicle inventory, I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that they have paid GM for their cars/trucks on their lot. If so, what is the potential savings for GM?
    --------
    I cannot vouch for this info 100%, but this is what some quick research found. Maybe someone really in the know can confirm or modify the following:

    'Dealer financing comes in the form of vehicle flooring, which typically allows a dealer to hold a vehicle as inventory and make interest-only payments until it sells. But when the vehicles don’t sell within a certain time period, higher interest payments may apply.'

    If that is the case, and depending on 'creative accounting' this would account for a huge number in the inventory asset section of a balance sheet.

    Closing dealerships would cause an immediate inventory glut, yet moving forward, production would be slashed many less dealerships as would the inventory number.
    .
  20. david t from Canada writes: This is good for the Canadian economy . As more people lose their job Canada will get out of the recession faster. Remember job losses are good and job gains are also good.
  21. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: '60 employees go, legacy costs will be between $700,000 '

    Over $100,000 per person.
  22. Richard Keefer from Omemee, Canada writes:
    The unfortunate dealers should worry about GM's undertaking to pay them amounts they are owed,-- just before it enters bankruptcy. Why couldn't they consolidate dealerships a long time ago? Well, they didn't have the threat of bankruptcy with which to break agreements. Very sad that what was once the world's largest and arguably greatest industrial company would sink so low.
  23. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: Honda has dealership about every 30 kilometers apart. There is like a GM dealership every 5 kilometers. Time to start cutting.
  24. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Wonder why no bailout to canadian dealerships?

    IF the logic of bailout D2 is right, we should bailout their dealership as well.

    After all, purpose of bailout is to save jobs.

    Are the jobs at dealership more dispensable than autoworkers at D2?

    If so, I understand why jobs in the rest of Canada received no bailout.
  25. macdaddy 1959 from How bad is it...no, really..., Canada writes: As in Chrysler's case, more dealers will be added to the list, after GM goes into bankruptcy. That's a lot of taxpayers (less money to all 3 levels of government and a draw on Social Services), spenders and donations made to their communities, where they live.
    Ottawa is turning the tap on rather slowly for this Stimulus Package; knowing that things are going to get a lot worse. (when you see Flaherty/Harper spend $40 bill., that should be an indicator)
    Hey, I live in a Tory riding and we don't feel stimulated or tricked down on, in the least...
  26. J Broomer from Toronto (but really Etobicoke), Canada writes: What GM dealer is solvent selling less than 35 cars a year? Just proves that dealers don't make money selling cars, it's the service end that makes the money. So, my guess is that a dealership that gets the notice loses its new vehicle sales workforce, changes the sign out front and becomes a service centre. They can still sell used vehicles, can't they? In the end they probably become more profitable than they were in the first place.
  27. asm oak bay from Canada writes: to all you driver of Kia, Hyundia and other non Detroit 3 product, congraulations. You've done it - potentially another 12,000 jobs gone. Maybe you can persuade these Korean and other international parasites to pony up the cash for all of your sacred social programs - including unemployment insurance - that have heretofore been funded by the taxes paid by the Detroit 3 mfgers, dealers and employees. Somehow, I doubt they will do so - profits have to go back to Korea ya know.
  28. macdaddy 1959 from How bad is it...no, really..., Canada writes: So does anyone know how this program, that the US & Canadian governments cover your warranty works? Oh ya, YOU pay up front and we'll see you at tax time...
  29. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: Good luck to all the people who may be out of a job. Hopefully the economy bounces back and this is just a small bump on your path.
  30. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: I was having my GM serviced. The shops are full and moving vehicles though in batches. The showroom was pretty much empty of buyers. This is while they are moving out the Pontiacs they have. Good mechanics will do ok, good salseman will sell something else and the world will continue to turn.
  31. Jimmy Jones from Ottawa, Canada writes: I find it extremely ironic that CAW has problem with the current 'cookie-cutter' negotation approach with GM and said:

    'Because the Canadian and U.S. governments are planning a joint effort to support GM's restructuring, we now face a dangerous attempt to enforce a 'cookie-cutter' approach ... This philosophy is absolutely offensive to us as Canadians, and it is leading the government to demand things that are neither economically necessary or tolerable.'

    Mmm ... if I remembered about a month ago that Lewenza said the following regarding CAW's plan to use pattern negotiation:

    'The Canadian Auto Workers union has no plans to stray from a previously established pattern when it sits down again with negotiators from Chrysler ... Ken Lewenza said the union is willing to help Chrysler find cost savings in other ways, but won't give any more labour concessions than it did in its agreement with general Motors'

    At the end of the day, 'pattern negotiation' and 'cookie-cutter' are the same thing ... I guess Lewenza likes it when he forced it on the Big 3 but rejects it when he is now being asked the same. Shame on you for being a hypocrite.
  32. Maple Leaves from Canada writes: Looks like all the CAW related threads are closed for comments after the Mark Baigrie tirade against visible minorites.
  33. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: Pity, the noble car salesman and the honest mechanic will have to look for other work.
  34. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: Maybe you can persuade these Korean and other international parasites to pony up the cash for all of your sacred social programs

    They did. They paid taxes in Canada. They hired canadian salesmen in showroom and mechanics.

    Why trading companies of foreign goods should pay extra taxes?

    Do you have import clothes in your closets? Or import TV in your living room? Or import bed you slept on?
  35. Rob M from toronto, Canada writes: Most of you are ill informed and have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Seriously the biggest problem GM and Ford have (chrysler is just a complete disaster) is consumer perception and the continual spouting of bullshit that MAY have been relevant a decade to two decades ago. Now rightly so, there is a reason consumers have this stereotype in mind, there offerings used to be that bad. However in the last 10 years they have made segnificant inroads in terms of quality and performance. Many of the models (from GM and Ford) can compete equally with or are better than their asian competitors. If you think differently then obviously you have a biased opinion and are unwilling to give yourself a fair one. I am no proponent of the 'domestic' automakers, but I know the autoindustry and some of the comments being made are just ill informed. Do some research understand the issues, and the product for that matter (which apparently is the issue, but is basically a non issue when compared objectively) And for all of you that think Honda and Toyota et al. are the saints of the automotive industry, good luck to you because I can almost gaurantee that their product will never live up to the lofty expectations that most people seem to have for them, I know that from first hand experience.
  36. Turning Right from Canada writes: I wonder if we can now pick up a vehicle from these dealerships at a real deal assuming they would want to move their inventory which has already been paid for.
    Better to get something for the vehicles then being stuck with them.
  37. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: to all you driver of Kia, Hyundia and other non Detroit 3 product, congraulations.
    ------------------------------------------------
    Please do not blame us people who bought non-D3 cars that most of which are made here. We bought products that were better than your D3. Learn to make a better product and they will come.
  38. Smokezz from Southern Ontario from Canada writes: Awww, I hate David Miller didn't like my comment. Maybe I should start complaining about his comments too? Check your facts before you make them, because they are WRONG.
  39. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: 'profits have to go back to Korea ya know'

    Same as every foreign owned companies in Canada, including D3.
  40. K D from Canada writes: Kia is paying $14.50/hr. at a new plant in Georga for a better built car while GM pays $76/hr. in Oshawa......priceless.

    ------------

    The numbers you give are pure fiction.

    Further GM Oshawa is a top quality plant in North America. You have no clue what you are talking about.
  41. John Johnson from Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS, get your facts straight. Kia is paying $14.50/hr. (cash wages only) at a new plant in Georga for a better built car (really?) while GM pays $32 - $34 / hr cash wages (plus benefits) (not $76/hr - that is a contrived number that does not include the benefits to one employee) in Oshawa. Do you really want to drive a car built by someone making something marginally higher than minimum wages here in Canada?

    Also Edwin, what does your logic (?) have to do with anything?
  42. Ken from calgary from Canada writes: 'A Chrysler dealership in North West Brampton offered me the best service at a great price so I bought from them'.

    Short Term Gain, Long Term Pain...

    Good luck with that purchase, I believe that you will need it.
  43. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Rob M from toronto, Canada writes: 'in the last 10 years they have made segnificant inroads in terms of quality and performance. Many of the models (from GM and Ford) can compete equally with or are better than their asian competitors'

    Not to argue aobut your 'first hand' information.

    But strange enough, GM lost market shares to Toyota for the same past 10 years, when you alleged about better GM quality & performance.

    Even if you assumed what you think is true, market perception decide the winner. See the failure of BETA vs VHS format. BETA may be better but market choose VHS.

    D3 buyers are typically loyal to D3 vehicles and hard to make them switch to other vehicles. Quality issue is a logical explanation.
  44. macdaddy 1959 from How bad is it...no, really..., Canada writes: Don't worry, the Bilderberg Group met last week in Greece. They will decide what's best for us; as our leaders were there to pay them homage...
    Don't fret, just keep on griping in posts and do absolutely nothing... that's it...hmmm...green shoots...
  45. K D from Canada writes:
    Our GM dealer gives better service and lower prices than our Honda dealer. They follow up and they don't nickel and dime you.

    The Honda dealer probably sells more cars because it's the only one in town vs. 2 GM dealers but I suspect most of the money is made in the garage in both cases.

    People think Hondas are better, my experiences is that they are about equal in quality/reliability and service at GM is better/cheaper.
  46. asm oak bay from Canada writes: Rob M: I beg to differ about Chrysler quality. I have a Grand Cherokee with hundreds of thousands of km's on it and it has been perfect - regular mainteance only. I otherwise agree with you, North American D3 quality is second to none. They had quality and design issues years ago, but those issues have been put to rest. Edwin Lee: you fail to appreciate how integrated the North American operations of the Detroit 3 are. In the context of the auto industry, the US is not, as you put it 'a foreign country'. Utterly amazing though that you would lump the US in with Korea. Also amazing that you think a few salesmen jobs in Korean sweatshop dealerships coutns as a significant contributuion to our tax base. It is not. Edwin: We are North American. Time to start thinking like a North American. Think North American Edwin. If you don't, the Koreans, Germans, Swedes etc will not do it for you.
  47. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: K D from Canada writes: 'I am very sad to see so many people hurt by this restructuring but I know its for the good of GM long term and the remaining dealers will be much stronger'

    We can apply your logic to D3.
    For the good of Ford long term if D2 died, and the remaining Ford will be much stronger.
  48. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: Kia $ 14.50/hr. Georgia (Non Union)
    Honda $ 21/hr. Indiana (Non Union)
    GM $ 76/hr. Oshawa. (Union)

    The CDN Gov't is finally figuring out the auto industry is not competitive. Even giving out billions of tax payers dollars will not keep these industries afloat for very long.
  49. Maple Leaves from Canada writes: Rob M,

    I agree completely. I think the D3 have made huge strides in quality and engineering. Styling is still a bit of an issue for me. Although, I do like the look of the Fusion, Escape, F150 and Saturn Vehicles. Chrysler for me is far behind Ford and GM.

    Honda and Toyota still make great products. Unless there experience a huge setback in reliability, it will take a while before their buyers begin considering the D3 again.
  50. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: K D from Canada writes: People think Hondas are better, my experiences is that they are about equal in quality/reliability and service at GM is better/cheaper.

    Consumers did not choose cheaper and better quality products?

    They like expensive and bad quality products?

    They must be wrong and you are right.
  51. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: 'In the context of the auto industry, the US is not, as you put it 'a foreign country'. you think a few salesmen jobs in Korean sweatshop dealerships coutns as a significant contributuion to our tax base.'

    Every canadian, no matter how insignificant they contribute to our tax base, are equal and should be equally treated.

    With your logic, auto executives contributed much significant amount to our tax base than autoworkers, should we subsidize their bonuses first?

    Why US is not a foreign country? Check out history books about the war between US & Canada.

    Why just the context of auto industry?
    If so, when Japan maufactured most of their electronics in China, you think Japan is not a foreign country in the context of electronics?
  52. Maple Leaves from Canada writes: I was talking to an autoworker that worked for Chrysler Brampton Plant and now currently works at Toyota's Cambridge plant.

    He is very impressed Toyota's commitment to Quality control and efficiency. He is also impressed with the communication and the partnership between management and the employees. He really feels it's a team effort and very different to what he experienced at Chryslers.
  53. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Maple Leaves from Canada writes: 'Honda and Toyota still make great products. Unless there experience a huge setback in reliability, it will take a while before their buyers begin considering the D3 again. '

    I agreed.

    Consumer confidence built up over long period of time. It took much longer to buit that up for expensive items. On the other hand, you don't bother much if buying from dollar stores.
  54. Brit . from Canada writes: Hurry up and close..it is taking too long for GM to go bankrupt.
  55. Rain Couver from Canada writes: I don't know what it takes to become a dealer for a specific type of car, but isn't there other makes and models that could be sold? Why not just sell another type of car, one that is more salable? I am sure there are other makes that would even increase sales. Better yet, become a dealership that specializes in fuel efficient cars.

    Anyway, this just proves that any money that went towards a bailout should have gone to Canadians losing their jobs and subsidize retraining instead of companies that are going to go into bankruptcy one way or another.
  56. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: We are North American. Time to start thinking like a North American.

    Then,you should have no problem moving all factories to mexico.
  57. david tarbuck from Ukraine writes: US car dealers by law can and do have lines from different manufacturers but such is not the case in Canada where a dealer might be losing his/her whole business.

    Therefore it would be only just to help these one line dealers to obtain other replacement products and/or other financial redress from GM and Chrysler.
  58. a b from Canada writes: GM dealer showrooms have been ghost towns for ages. A 50% cut is a good start, but it should have been done years ago, and it is not bold or forward thinking. The dealerships won't be busy/efficient with anything short of a 75% cut and a lot of people don't like dealerships and want to cut the dealerships completely out of the picture. Internet sales, or sales through sears/walmart/cdn tire would be much more attractive to many people.
  59. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Hmmm, let's see: 60 employees divided into $700,000 is $11,666.
    'Now before he comes back on and gives some lame excuse why there are 500,000 Canadians unemployed, or the imports pay taxes, or the D3 were alseep at the wheel, remember one thing: this guy has an axe to grind against the D3. '

    You are right that it should be $11,666 per person.

    If you don't agree to 500,000 canadians unemployed, you can post your fact. I got this figure from G&M weeks ago.

    If you can prove that imports did not pay taxes, do so.

    I did not solely put an axe to D3. If Toyota came to our government for bailout, I will do the same to them.
    WE just cannot help everyone and more vulnerable canadians have to be helped first.
  60. asm oak bay from Canada writes: Edwin Lee: you just don't get it do you? Those moves to Mexico were done out of necessity. A necessity brought about by our shortsighted and gradiose politicians who wanted their names on treaties - treaties like one in particular with Korea that allowed Korean car makers to bring in 600,000 cars while the D3 were allowed to put 6000 into Korea. Politicians who turned a constant blind eye to the protectionism of Japan all the while hanging our manufacturers out to dry. Politicians who did not insist at the outset that foreign cars could sell in North America - if and it is a big if - they built those cars in North America subject to the same terms and conditions applicable to Ford Chrysler and GM - a level playing field in other words. Had that been the case, the D3 could have easily competed with this bunch and they would ahve been able to make very small cars (leaving aside the demand for them) and ship them off to korea and Japan. None of that happened. And it was not the fault of the D3. Finally, if you are that clueless about how and why our relationship with the USA is fundamental to our economic and social fabric, I really have to wonder where you grew up and what you have learned over the years - you show an appalling level of ignorance, and I say that as an observation, and not as an insult.
  61. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: TO:John Perry from Canada

    Looks like the editor think you are wrong and deleted your post.
  62. John Perry from Canada writes: wayne powers from saskatoon, care to publish the name of the GM dealer(s) you are referring to, so others can avoid the same heartache as you and your wife?

    I suspect the reason your air filter was put on backwards was because the mechanic didn't like you bringing your import in for servicing ;->>
  63. K D from Canada writes: Consumers did not choose cheaper and better quality products? They like expensive and bad quality products? They must be wrong and you are right.

    ------------

    That's not what I said and you know it. BLa bla.
  64. wayne powers from saskatoon, writes: Just have to tell you this one, years ago my dad bought a brand new Impala and from day one there was a noise that came from the drivers door when he hit a bump.He complained to the dealer and they said they checked it out and fixed it. This went on for about 2 years, then he had an accident and the car was sent to a body shop. When he picked up the car the body shop guy showed him what he found in the drivers door. It was a coke bottle with a note inside it which said' took you long enough' it was the last GM product he ever bought.
  65. K D from Canada writes: 'GM dealer showrooms have been ghost towns for ages'.

    ---------

    Amazing how they manage to sell 25% of the cars in Canada and no one is in the dealers!
  66. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin, now your'e running to the editor to block me out?

    I should have known it, I HATE UNIONS is more spiteful and demagogic on this forum, but I don't see you complain to the editor about him?

    And btw, if you didn't rat, how did you know my post was deleted by the editor?
  67. wayne powers from saskatoon, writes: SMP regina back in the 80's
  68. Smokezz from Southern Ontario from Canada writes: People talk about styling? Sorry but the imports are cookie cutter cars. They all look the same and are BORING.
  69. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: asm oak bay, GM has stated they will be bringing in small cars from China as well within the next few years I believe to the tune of 50,000 by 2011. It doesn't make sense to bail Chrslyer & GM out then have the manufacturing jobs go to China, Korea & mexico. Until Canada changes our trade agreement & put tarrifs on imports we will lose. One way flow makes us very vulnerable
  70. George BrownIII from Christmas Island writes: Anyway Tata motors will be entering the market and they could luck out with the ex-gov motors dealerships.
  71. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: asm oak bay from Canada writes: 'Those moves to Mexico were done out of necessity. A necessity brought about by our shortsighted and gradiose politicians.'

    You asked me to think as North American and you have a different treatment for North American Mexican?

    'Politicians who turned a constant blind eye to the protectionism of Japan all the while hanging our manufacturers out to dry.'

    Japan allowed D3 imports. Just D3 don't have market there.
    Canada is the 4th largest countries export softwood to Japan.

    'they built those cars in North America subject to the same terms and conditions applicable to Ford Chrysler and GM - a level playing field in other words. '

    Why using D3 as model to Canada? D3 & Japan carmakers are all foreign owned companies. If you count North American, Mexico should count too.

    'our relationship with the USA is fundamental to our economic and social fabric, I really have to wonder where you grew up and what you have learned over the years - '

    Mexico's relationship to USA is also fundamental to their economic and social fabric as well. No different to Canada.
  72. John Perry from Canada writes: wayne powers from saskatoon, I have to tell ya, unless you provide names, dates and verifiable facts, how can we know what you say is true?

    You know how easy it would be for me or any of my buddies to join these forums and come up with stories such as yours and say we had the same experiences with Hondas or Toyotas or KIA's or Hyundais??

    I'm outed by the fact I'm a Chrysler guy, but that shouldn't stop me from spouting some fairy tale about a buddy of mine who had an Accord, and this thing was...........
  73. John Perry from Canada writes: wayne powers from saskatoon, writes: SMP regina back in the 80's ....

    That's it? I could come up with a defunct dealer name from years gone by too. Come on, you can do better than that.
  74. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin Lee, would you be at liberty to post what you drive?

    For the record, I have owned 6 Chryslers, as I work for them, and quite a few family members have as well.
  75. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Until Canada changes our trade agreement & put tarrifs on imports we will lose. One way flow makes us very vulnerable '

    Canada altready has tariffs on auto imports from Japan but Japan has none to Canadian auto exports.

    Every country has one way flow of a certain product.

    When we cannot compete in one product, we compete in other prduct.

    When we cannot compete in cost, we compete in design, technology and quality.

    Before Japan made electronics in China, they are much expensive and still consumers picked their electronics as top pick. They don't need to compete in cost, they compete in quality and technology.

    This is the nature of competition.
  76. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin Lee, would you be at liberty to post what you drive?

    I never said I had any experience with a bad D3 vehicle.

    I just stated the fact that GM lost market shares to Toyota during the time when some of you claimed GM has comparable quality and cheaper than Toyota. There is no logical explanation other than quality issue.
  77. Toronto Lover from Canada writes: Why would anyone buy a piece of crap chrysler or Fiat, I personally didn't mind GM Cars. Overall my Impala was not the best but I wasn't to diasppointed in it. I also own a Hyundai Sonata, and this has been a great purchase, no problems with 85,000km on it, and the warranty puts anything GM or Chrysler has to offer to Shame. Guess those super productive CAW workers weren't williong to stand behind their quality if if got in the way of their $76/hr.

    However this myth that Chrysler and GM contributed to our social programs is a joke, CHRYSLER OWES $1 BILLION IN TAXES!!!! They've received billions in concesssions over the years. So we just handed them another $4 billion which will never get repaid and now the CAW wants us to pony up another $6 so their workers can keep their Defined Benefit Pensions?

    Sorry, this is not Blackmail, there's just no more money to go around. The majority of taxpayers don't have a defined benefit pension so forgive us if we're not keen on paying billions so you can keep yours.
  78. glop male from US, United States writes: I agree that GM cars are getting better in quality in the recent years. But this not good enough. The customers have already had a mindset that GM cars are crappy. In order to regain customers' confidence, their cars have to be better and cheaper to pull the customers back to their dealers' lots. Bob Lutz blamed the media for putting down GM quality when he thought GM cars were as good as foreign competitors. Bob, as good is not good enough.
    I remember the Hyundai CEO didn't sleep for days because Hyundai quality slipped in the late 90s/early 2000s and their quality improved in a couple of years. GM management did not do a thing other than pointing fingers at the workers when it is obviously a design problem. You cannot assemble a better car with poorly designed parts. GM dies because of poor, incompetant and lack of management. They cannot identify their problem areas.
  79. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'You tell me that KIA & Hyundai aren't dumping their trash on our shores ? You call this free trade'

    I did not say that. I never said KIA & Hyundai has free trade with Canada.

    You figure of import & expost just show a trade deficit.

    Just common sense. Korea & Japan do not need to ban D3 imports. They don't have market for big D3 vehicles. Not to mention quality & technology.
  80. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I own 2 chrysler vehicles & I have no complaints as for GM my Jimmy was a lemon & my dealer was as crooked as they come. I would never buy GM again.
    Once again I reiterate why are we not imposing stiffer penalties on imports. Makes no sense to bail out Chrysler & GM until this isssue has been resolved. Also why has China, Mexico not been asked to contribute towards the bail out
  81. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Yo Edwin, could it be that you whined to the editor that I used a Japanese term to describe you and your kind?

    Now I understand why D3 failed.

    Their workers cannot learn from mistakes.
  82. Maple Leaves from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: How about Korea Edwin, where's the free trade there??

    You tell me that KIA & Hyundai aren't dumping their trash on our shores ? You call this free trade:

    Korean cars exported to North America in 2007: 765,000

    North American cars exported to Korea in 2007: 5655

    ___________________________________________

    There is likely a political reason for the disparity. American foreign policy against N. Korea has always been to aggressively contain communism and militarism. Onew way America can achieve containment is i) to gain an ally in the peninsula by strengthening South Korea's economy and military.

    That's my opinion anyways.
  83. John Perry from Canada writes: Toronto Lover from Canada , when push comes to shove, nothing you or anyone else says will make much of a difference, the autoworkers will be taken care of one way or another.

    How about gnashing your teeth and waving your fist at the oil companies as they slowly creep up the magical $1 a litre or more? Oh yeah, they didn't ask for a bailout.

    Really? Oil companies don't get tax-payer subsidies? Aren't these coming out of your tax dollars too? Just because they're not formally getting bailouts, doesn't mean that the rip-offs we're all experiencing isn't some kind of bail-out from the Canadian consumer.

    Check this out: How do you explain 97 cents a litre gas price when the oil price per barrel is $61? Last year, when the price of oil was trading in the $60-65 range, gas was selling in the mid 70's. Why the discrepancy now?

    How about railing against them? Oh yeah, the pay levels and compensation packages of oil company workers and executives hasn't been published yet.

    Yeah right.
  84. Does The Work from Canada writes: Hey John Smith, Don't like the price of the Superior GM diesel truck. Not a problem, roll on down to your Japanese / offshore dealership and take one of their diesels workhorses out for a spin.......................................................................................................................Oh Yeah they don't have any diesels, unless you want a 20yr old Toyota Land Crusier, or Mazda baby pickup, yikes. All you tech-no-crats will soon find out just what happens when the people that build your homes and run small business's have to buy the pathetic pieces of junk the Offshore companies call trucks. The cost of swapping these rustbox's every 3 years will be transferred to you THE CUSTOMER. Enjoy, I'll continue to drive my 1994 GMC 1ton dually 4x4. I'm swapping a 2005 5300 engine (327 too the older folk) in this year cause I picked up a low kilometer truck that was written of. My old workhorse will have a newer 'greener' heart. GO Chevy GO.
  85. Proud Newfoundlander from Fredericton, Canada writes: I guess this is what happens after years of peddling crap vehicles. My father was always a 'GM man'. Over the years I've seen eight trucks and four cars, GM vehicles, go through my parent's household. We always thought that the maintenance required and the lifespan of the vehicles was the norm. That's until I bought my first Honda (used with high km) and realized what an infinitely better vehicle it was. Since then, I've had 2 Hondas and now a BMW. All have been wonderful cars...and even my Dad sings the praises of imports (Hondas anyway, the BMW freaks him out a little).
  86. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: glop male from US, United States writes: 'I remember the Hyundai CEO didn't sleep for days because Hyundai quality slipped in the late 90s/early 2000s and their quality improved in a couple of years'

    Agreed. It took a couple of years to win back consumer confidence on expensive vehicles. D3 do not have a few years. That's why I said when D2 died, Ford has better chance of survival.

    'GM management did not do a thing other than pointing fingers at the workers when it is obviously a design problem'

    May be a tradition of people working in D3.
  87. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Once again I reiterate why are we not imposing stiffer penalties on imports.

    You mean to make consumers pay a higher price for vehicles produced overseas?

    If we do so, will China do the same thing to canadian made vehicles?
  88. Comments closed, censored, hidden, deleted, disappeared from Peso-onie land, Canada writes: There are so many vehicles sitting in the dealerships' yards right now... so many vehicles just sitting there.... might as well close half of all leaderships in the country. --- Don't move, don't buy. Stay put. Wait. Get an ol' wreck for a few more months, if absolutely necessary. --- They'll give you the vehicles, eventually. It's coming, and fast.
  89. Clark Kentt from on Church and Carleton Street, Canada writes: What we are witnessing now is the eventual elimination of one of the Detroit 3 car makers ... and my bet is that Chrysler will vanish very soon. This will rationalize the N American car builders to Ford and GM, and presumably the elimination of Chrysler will give Ford and GM higher sales. This is the only reasonable resolution of the current NA car sales funk.

    I suspect the US and Canadian governments are hoping that Chrysler will declare backruptcy and start the rationalization process to it's logical conclusion. The only surviving Chrysler assets would be the Minivan and Jeep brands.

    Ford could take the Minivan, because their own minivan is crap .... and GM could take Jeep to replace their stupid Hummer brand.
  90. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Since these car companies don't have a manufacturing presence in Canada, where are the tax and profit dollars flowing to Edwin??

    D3 have manufacturing presesnece in Canada, where are the tax & profit dollars flowing to?

    Where are the tax and profit dollars flowing to, by Microsoft, when most of the programming done in India?
  91. Does The Work from Canada writes: Whoa, Edwin Lee, in this vast see of insecurity I see you have come to the final analysis without a union member holding your hand. You say 'GM management did not do a thing other than pointing a finger at the workers when it is obviously a design problem' What the heck happened? Did you get bonked on the head by rust falling of the frame of a Toyota truck. I'm incredulous!! This is what all the Union people have been saying FOR YEARS. Canada, and OSHAWA specifically are recognized by INDEPENDENT OUTSIDE companies to be the BEST assembly plants. What we have to assemble is what we are given, and I can speak from first hand experience that we in OSHAWA Argue, Fight, cajole and do whatever we can to convince the engineer's from Detroit to LET us produce a better product than what we are given to start with. This fly's in face of most of these EDUCATED engineers but WE are also CUSTOMERS as well and want our dollars to purchase the BEST product possible. When will you people open your eyes and actually look at what's in front of you. The average person working on the line has as much influence on the design and coponentry in new vehicle as any of you have of changing the Earths orbit by flattulating. Yes we earn very good money, great benefits, secure (allmost) retirement packages, all yes no question. At issue is when we return from bankruptcy, (GM is Destined to go there as wel). We will hopefully be part of company that will LOOK past the end of it's nose, rather than DOWN it..
  92. Domenique Valntin from United States writes: In 2001 I purchased a brand new GMC Jimmy. The vehicle spent more time being repaired at the dealership than in my garage. Problem after problem which was sort of O.K. as long as it was under warranty. Three days after the warranty ran out the fuel pump died. With roadside assistance no longer free it cost me $ 200.00 to tow it and $ 1200.00 for a new fuel pump. I contacterd G.M. Canada and was told that I should have changed the fuel filter at 80,000k I tried to explain the vehicle only had 48,000 k on it. The lady basically told me to go away. I told her that her customer service ettiquette was terrible and if G.M.'s attitude towards their customers did'nt change, she would be looking for work real soon. She hung up on me!
    Funny thing though, I think I recognized her voice the other day coming out of a speaker at the local Macdonalds drive thru. Could it be ?????
    Goes around comes around !!!!
    RIP GM
  93. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Once again I reiterate why are we not imposing stiffer penalties on imports.

    You mean to make consumers pay a higher price for vehicles produced overseas?

    If we do so, will China do the same thing to canadian made vehicles?
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Edwin I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to free trade agreements/tariffsetc however that said I notice we are losing alot of manufacturing jobs to other countries. We also carry alot of oversea goods, go to any stores & you will see it. I don't think China consumes as much Canadian goods as Canada does china's. We need to level the playing field as opposed to sitting back & not doing anything. Maybe we as consumers need to start buying made in Canada instead of saving a couple $ & buying ie made in China etc.
  94. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: John Perry, aka Mr. Chrysler, I used to drive a 1976 Dodge Colt. I vividly recall when I lifted the hood to service the engine it was clearly stamped 'Mitsubishi'.

    Explain please.
  95. Mr. Green-Jeans from Calgary, AB, Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: Closing only 301 dealerships? Not enough as far as I am concerned.

    Kia is paying $14.50/hr. at a new plant in Georga for a better built car while GM pays $76/hr. in Oshawa......priceless.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You know, it's knuckle draggers like you that totally mis-inform people with information like that. Hopefully most people can see thru your stupidity and form real opionions. Why you would even compare the base salary rate of one place with the loaded rate of another is beyond anyones intelligence.

    Watching peole like you post trash like that ....... priceless
  96. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'I notice we are losing alot of manufacturing jobs to other countries. '

    You hired a person in Canada for $76 to produce an item sold for $100. You pay tax on profit of $24.

    You import from China for $7 and you pay tax on $93

    When we cannot compete in one product, we compete in other prduct.

    When we cannot compete in cost, we compete in design, technology and quality.

    When we cannot make profit from manufacturing, we do trading.

    Before Japan made electronics in China, they are much expensive and still consumers picked their electronics as top pick. They don't need to compete in cost, they compete in quality and technology.

    This is the nature of competition
  97. Mr. Green-Jeans from Calgary, AB, Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: Consumers vote with their wallets and they are clearly saying NO to GM, Crapsyler and Ford.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maybe you failed to notice that consumers are saying NO to auto purchases EVERYWHERE, or did you fail to notice how much Toyota and BMW lost last quarter. Toyota lost 7.7 billion last quarter ... more than GM, and way more than Ford.
  98. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: John Perry, aka Mr. Chrysler, I used to drive a 1976 Dodge Colt. I vividly recall when I lifted the hood to service the engine it was clearly stamped 'Mitsubishi'.
    -------------------------------
    Ford used Yamaha engines in they're Taurus SHO, Saturn VUE Redline used Honda V6 engines.
  99. John Johnson from Canada writes: Edwin Lee, you would never sell a Chinese made care for $100 and make $93 (i.e. cost to produce of $7). You might be able to sell it at the dollar store for a dollar (or $1.25 at the dollar plus store)! This is the nature of competition? Please compare apples to apples.
    Your 'logic' makes no sense!

    PRICELESS to quote another poster!

    P.S. Please tell everyone on this board what you drive? Do you even have a driver's licence?
  100. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: The sense of entitlements and self-preservation mentality will come back to bite autoworkers. It'll be interesting to see when they have no choice but to go against each other:

    - UAW sacrificing CAW for keeping jobs in USA.
    - Senior UAW/CAW bending over for last minute concessions of younger workers in order to keep their pensions.

    Let's see how worthy is 'brotherhood' when there's conflict of interests among all parties.
  101. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: So in other words Edwin just sit back is what you're suggesting. As for the $76 comment, not all manufacturers pay their employees such generous wages. Either way we in Canada can't compete with China(slave labour). This is why I am saying we need a more level playing field. As consumers we do have the final say & I hope other canadians will buy what is left of the Made in Canada market.
  102. Any Guy At Home from Canada writes: Toyota's loss was actually due in part to devaluation of currency, not all attributable to operating losses. Given prior huge profits saved as capital they are nowhere near the same shape as the D3.

    Yes, I do agree, though, the economy has resulted a far fewer cars bing sold, not just due to D3 quality concerns.....and the D2 heading towards bankruptcy unfortunately also will result in more job loss, exacerbating the problems overall....
  103. Super Farmer from Canada writes: I test drove MB, BMW and Audi - I bought a Cadillac. GM has done great things with this brand. In fact, they should get out of everything except Caddy, Trucks and only their best selling cars (Malibu and Impala I believe).

    The only thing that the other makers have done better is manage their labour.
  104. John Perry from Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS , hate to burst your bubble, but this is what's going to happen:

    Yes, you will get your wish, one of the D3 , or maybe two, will go, but, and get this, the reason why negotiations are dragging out is because governments on both sides of the border are trying to figure out ways to minimize the economic impact when thousands of autoworkers lose their jobs.

    A lot of the poor souls who don't quite make the cut might have to be sacrificed ( those who aren't over 45 ), on the assumption they are young enough to start a second career. But for a lot of these people who are 50 or over ( like yours truly, John Perry ) and have 25 years on the assembly lines, they will have their pensions guaranteed, notwithstanding what Messrs. Harper and McSquinty are saying.

    That is why Lewenza is trying to get the best deal possible. So, in a nutshell, what does this mean for me?

    Not much really, because as I have mentioned in other forums, John Perry will thrive and survive regardless of whether or not there is bankruptcy or liquidation. He has been prescient enough to see ahead and position himself to take maximum advantage of all the system offers.
  105. John Perry from Canada writes: John Perry can be economically independent for a minimum 10 years just on his savings alone. Combined with a nice remuneration from 6/49 ( thanks again for buying that ticket honey:->>), I can go on until at least 62, upon which John Perry will apply for early CPP. One other tidbit of info that is guaranteed to rile your feathers: since Chrysler Canada was much more socially responsible than GM or Ford, our pension plan has enough funds in it to not only pay current retirees going rate, but to take care of soon to be retirement-eligible people like John Perry until at least 2035! Rant all you want friend, but the system has been good for John Perry. I smile everyday during this 9 week ( at least ) layoff, collecting a cool $747.00, waiting to go back to work for one week, then summer holidays!
  106. Any Guy At Home from Canada writes: John Perry, why not just post your personal balance sheet and income/expense statement....very open about your personal financial postition aren't we?
  107. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: The sense of entitlements and self-preservation mentality will come back to bite autoworkers. It'll be interesting to see when they have no choice but to go against each other
    ------------------------------------------------
    I mentioned about a year ago that the days of entitlements are over and I got trashed by alot of posters by it. Guess who's right now?
    The unions still cannot take that fact is they're demands have caused the crash in the US Auto Sector.
  108. K D from Canada writes: Kia is paying $14.50/hr. at a new plant in Georga for a better built car while GM pays $76/hr. in Oshawa......priceless.

    --------------

    Pure fiction. Do you enjoy typing nonsense?
  109. John Perry from Canada writes: I know a GM dealer.. I don't know yet if they are 'on the list'.. One thing I can tell you is that there are 33,000 tax paying Canadians about to find out their future today. And how about all the companies they employ to do work for them as well. Suppliers, vendors, wholesalers... you name it. Call it another 30,000 people.
    Rightfully or wrongfully- GM is closing plants and reducing their dealer base to be more competitive ..
    Come into a GM dealer these days and take a look at the quality today. 11 nameplates are award winners for quality in the last 3 years.. those that suggest GM should go by the wayside.. probably haven't graced them with their presence in the last 5 years at a GM dealership. Test drive a CTS, Malibu, Corvette, Sierra or an Acadia or Enclave - and you will be convinced.
  110. jens gessner from Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS - you wrote: 'Kia $ 14.50/hr. Georgia (Non Union)
    Honda $ 21/hr. Indiana (Non Union)
    GM $ 76/hr. Oshawa. (Union)'

    That comment is simply hogwash.

    CAW/UAW workers do not earn $76. The number you cite for KIA and Honda is their starting wage (excluding benefits), while the GM number represents total labour cost/hour, including all benefits and the legacy costs for former employees.

    In other words: The labour cost component (including non-union labour) is about 7% of the vehicle's retail price. For an average vehicle. that is about $1700 / 22hrs (approx. work time required to produce a vehicle) = $76/hr.

    But judging by the name you are using, it is understandable that you would deliberately try to spread misinformation. It doesn't mean anyone has to believe your rant.
  111. Super Farmer from Canada writes: 'Check this out: How do you explain 97 cents a litre gas price when the oil price per barrel is $61? Last year, when the price of oil was trading in the $60-65 range, gas was selling in the mid 70's. Why the discrepancy now?'

    Anyone drawing a direct correlation between oil price and gasoline doesn't understand the market. It's like saying the price of beer should come down because the market for hops is in the crapper.
  112. beta max from Vancouver, Canada writes: The 250 that get the axe might be the lucky ones...the rest are going to bleed out slowly for months or years.
  113. jens gessner from Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS - you wrote: 'Kia $ 14.50/hr. Georgia (Non Union)
    Honda $ 21/hr. Indiana (Non Union)
    GM $ 76/hr. Oshawa. (Union)'

    That comment is simply hogwash.

    CAW/UAW workers do not earn $76. The number you cite for KIA and Honda is their starting wage (excluding benefits), while the GM number represents total labour cost/hour, including all benefits and the legacy costs for former employees.

    In other words: The labour cost component (including non-union labour) is about 7% of the vehicle's retail price. For an average vehicle. that is about $1700 / 22hrs (approx. work time required to produce a vehicle) = $76/hr.

    But judging by the name you are using, it is understandable that you would deliberately try to spread misinformation. It doesn't mean anyone has to believe your rant.
  114. Super Farmer from Canada writes: 'Check this out: How do you explain 97 cents a litre gas price when the oil price per barrel is $61? Last year, when the price of oil was trading in the $60-65 range, gas was selling in the mid 70's. Why the discrepancy now?'

    Anyone drawing a direct correlation between oil price and gasoline doesn't understand the market. It's like saying the price of beer should come down because the market for hops is in the crapper.
  115. Mr. Green-Jeans from Calgary, AB, Canada writes: The unions still cannot take that fact is they're demands have caused the crash in the US Auto Sector.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yes, I guess they caused GM, Ford, and Chrysler to design cars that people didn't want, just like they caused everyone to buy Toyota's and Honda's. All those unionized workers in Germany that have 6 weeks vacation, and healthy benefits and pay have also caused Mercedes, BMW, and VW to fail miserably as well. Oh well, I guess it's easier in some minds to fault others than really find real problems.
  116. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Jello fuel from East City, Canada writes: Interesting read, although one has to ask himself, why GM is being reactive to the dealership situation, when they could have been a BIT more proactive, IE close inefficient dealers years ago?

    ** Good question. It's just another indication of how poorly they have run their company for so many years. Meanwhile, a lot of people are taking the opportunity to blame the auto workers and their union. It was GM that set up this enormous dealer network and failed to keep tabs on it; it was GM taht signed the contracts with teh union; it was GM that was too slow to adjust to changing markets.

    I'm interested why the number of dealerships being let go is so high up here. With 1100 dealers going in the States, I would expect to see 110 up here using the old 10% rule.
  117. John Perry from Canada writes: ' less dealerships = higher prices nobody wins'

    higher prices total lack of confidence = no customers
  118. John Perry from Canada writes:
    We could just go shopping to the Walmart for more low-quality crap & forget about it.

    We had this goose that laid golden eggs for decades, and it paid for our hospitals, roads, schools, police, government and enough medicine for everybody. It even allowed us to put billions into the pockets of our have-not neighbour (who spoke French & hates us). Then it got sick. Vet bills are just too expensive, so we killed it. Tasted like chicken.

    Will we be better off with all of our food and every bicycle, car, truck, computer, camera, shirt, pair of pants, jacket, coat, television, toy, telephone, microwave, and umbrella coming from countries that have wage-slave labour ???

    Well.... There will be a gradual decline in the quality of life in Canada and our children will have to work longer than we did to pay for everything they get and the quality of food will decline as the cost rises until we take our rightful place among the other third-world countries. Our cities will become slums and our life expectancy will drop.
  119. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes:

    All of you import lovers, hope you enjoy what you helped to spawn with your purchases. So much for solidarity amongst North Americans. But then again, when you have melting pots, unlike Japan or Korea or China, which are homogenous and can ' encourage ' their people to buy domestic ( or else!), you take chances.

    ** I've bought 'import' cars for years because they are reliable and keep looking half decent after the first few years, which is when the poor finish on the American vehicles is really beginning to show up. I see no reason why GM couldn't make money if they were serious about keeping on top of their business and keeping an eye on what the market wanted going forward. Until very recently, American cars were still outselling everything else anyway. Besides which, most 'import' cars are actually built in North America, employing North American workers.
  120. Steve Robertson from Canada writes: It's been said many times. GM has a few great brands and they need to focus on them. They are lots of people that really want to buy a GM, but worry about quality. Telling people that, that isn't an issue anymore doesn't build the brand. Quality is shown years down the road. GM, may well be building better cars today, but are paying the price for the garbage from the 70's, 80's and 90's.

    If they can withstand an internal overhaul they should come out of it as the contender that turns into the champion. What other business out there has such a following?

    It's business arrogance that got them here. Couple that with unions that really don't get it and you can't make money... nor should you.

    Unions have no place in Canada. Work hard and expect to be paid for that work. If you don't live up to the agreed upon deal, expect to be fired.
  121. John Perry from Canada writes: Chris Halford from Ottawa ( who probably has a defined pension plan back-stopped by the Canadian taxpayer), if what you say is true, where do the excess profits of Toyota and Honda ultimately end up?

    Tokyo & Toyota City, that's where.
  122. A Calgarian from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: ' less dealerships = higher prices nobody wins'

    higher prices total lack of confidence = no customers
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Less pollution too, which is good!
  123. Jello fuel from East City, Canada writes: Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: I'm interested why the number of dealerships being let go is so high up here. With 1100 dealers going in the States, I would expect to see 110 up here using the old 10% rule.

    One gets the impression from others that have posted here, that GM is a franchise that dealership owners buy into, so closing ineffective dealers might not even help GM much at all. Imo, this 'cost-cutting' is an attempt to bring GM's total cost of doing business in line with its shrinking market share. After all, ineffective dealers take too long to move product, an accounting nightmare, and very bad for the balance sheet.
  124. Sceptical Reader from Toronto, Canada writes: Legacy costs? That really gets me. Unions and workers wanting to much killed GM. Even now that GM is dead they want to beat more money out of what's left. I am sure they will ask the government to bail out the legacy costs. Say goodbye to your tax dollars.
  125. Zeno of Elea from Canada writes: Surely dealerships are obsolete by now. Computer manufacturers have shown how it's done. You have one showroom per city - think Apple Store, but most orders are taken online. The 'service' that most dealerships provide today is to add stress to your purchasing process. Dealerships who've lost their contracts, still have a business servicing cars. If they have good mechanics and good customer relationships, they will survive this way.
  126. Grassroots are the wave of the future from Canada writes: Steve Robertson from Canada writes:

    Unions have no place in Canada. Work hard and expect to be paid for that work. If you don't live up to the agreed upon deal, expect to be fired.

    ==================

    That may be your opinion but for many workers thay are left with little protection from unscruplous owners and the biggest pariah on our society, the temp industry.
  127. Hogie 9566 from Canada writes: My household situation for vehicles is unique in that for the last 20 years, I have been a Chyrsler driver, my wife has been a Honda customer. Our first Accord lasted 10 years and almost 200,000 k and you wouldn't know it was used. Zero repairs in that time. I went through 2 Dodge Mini vans during the same time. Both were good to me but problems started at the 5 year mark. My wife got a new Accord and had it for 5 years before getting a Pilot as our kids got bigger. I went through a Dakota pickup that had a few problems and I now have a Ram 1500. I love the Ram but at almost 5 years now I have had 3 major problems with it (not under warrenty of course). My wife's Pilot has more miles and still looks (even smells) new. Up until the Chrysler bankruptcy, I was still likely to eventually get another Ram 1500, but now I will probably go F150 (need a truck for work reasons). I am not complaining about my vehicles; overall they have been good and I have been happy with my current truck. I seems to me that initially, quality is equal; I could not really say thay my vehicles were worse than my wife's cars. But it seems that my vehicles were always '5 years and out' compared with the Honda's that went 10 years easily without expense it you needed them to last that long or longer. It just seems the Honda's were better value over the long run. If I had not lived through this type of situation, I probably would not have believed in the quality issue that foreign car people talk about, but there is something different about my wife's Honda cars. Can't quite put a finger on it but it is definitely a better vehicle.
  128. John Perry from Canada writes: Chris Halford from Ottawa, I have a defined benefit pension-plan that is currently back-stopped by enough funds put in it by Chrysler Canada throughout the years. And ultimately, it will be backstopped by the Ontario/Canadian governments too.

    I, John Perry, as a law-abiding taxpayer, asked you if you had a DBPP as well? Since you live in Ottawa, you must be making a living off my tax dollars as a swivel servant of some kind or another.

    If you are, would you like your remuneration and benefits packages listed on a forum for all to see and distort?

    Et tu.....
  129. John Johnson from Canada writes: Hogie 9566, I drove a Chevy Corsica for 11 years and am driving a Buick Regal for 8.5 years. I have had no significant maintenance problems with either vehicle. Please explain!
  130. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Steve Robertson - I agree, they have the opportunity to come out of Chapter 11 with a new image and a new outlook. The most important is the new outlook and the idea that they have to earn buyers and they are not entitled to a free ride. I agree too that they are still being hit hard by the quality of the products they built in 70s, 80s and 90s. I'm willing to believe that their vehicles are noe well-built but I won't buy one because I am happy with what I have. If the had made good products years back, they would still have a lot of customers they lost to the Japanese, Korean and WEuropean manufacturers. John Perry from Canada writes: Chris Halford from Ottawa ( who probably has a defined pension plan back-stopped by the Canadian taxpayer), ** No, I have my own RRSPs and that's it. They got caned over the last couple of years since you're so concerned! My employer currently chips in 1% of my salary. If you work for GM, your pension plan would be infinitely better. You need to question why the GM plan is poised to go down the tubes for a shortfall of $7 billion while GM p1ssed away more than $10 billion in cash in the last QUARTER. I believe that Bell's defined benefit plan is fully funded and the federal government's plan is definitely backstopped by the taxpayer, but everybody else's defined benefit plans are in trouble. if what you say is true, where do the excess profits of Toyota and Honda ultimately end up? Tokyo & Toyota City, that's where. ** What are 'excess profits'? The profits are likely split between the North American operations of Toyota and Honda and the corporate headquarters in Japan. A lot of it is probably ploughed back into the business to remain competitive and to put in place the products they need in the market in future years. That's the way it works in business. Clearly, Toyota's and Honda's operations make huge contributions to our economy, same as GM did.
  131. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Johnson from Canada writes: 'Edwin Lee, you would never sell a Chinese made care for $100 and make $93 (i.e. cost to produce of $7). You might be able to sell it at the dollar store for a dollar (or $1.25 at the dollar plus store)! This is the nature of competition? Please compare apples to apples. Your 'logic' makes no sense!'

    I never say Chinese made 'Care' for $100 in my post at 11:39 AM EDT

    I said 'an item'

    You have no logic at all.
  132. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes:
    Chris Halford, French is a language, not a race.
  133. Steve Robertson from Canada writes: John Johnson... I think you got lucky. I had the same luck with a truck. The problem for GM is, these stories aren't the norm.
  134. Michael S from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Wonder why no bailout to canadian dealerships?

    IF the logic of bailout D2 is right, we should bailout their dealership as well.

    After all, purpose of bailout is to save jobs.

    Are the jobs at dealership more dispensable than autoworkers at D2?

    ----------------
    It's called Voting Blocs everyone. Doesn't anyone get it? There's safety (and extortionist benefits) in numbers, and when I say numbers, I don't only mean the unions, but the management (which is just as much a 'union', if not by name) as well.
    Also, it's easier to sink taxpayer money into a nebulous black hole where things are a little more difficult to decipher and lack of transparency is a little more difficult to see for the average public. What this translates into is inflated management salaries and their pilfering the public trough worse than any politician in history.
  135. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'Will we be better off with all of our food and every bicycle, car, truck, computer, camera, shirt, pair of pants, jacket, coat, television, toy, telephone, microwave, and umbrella coming from countries that have wage-slave labour ???

    Yes. Things are more affordable.

    'There will be a gradual decline in the quality of life in Canada and our children will have to work longer than we did to pay for everything they get and the quality of food will decline as the cost rises'

    No. More affordable imports that our children can afford.

    Your 2 statements are contradictary.

    And yes, our children will have to work harder to pay for the bailout.
  136. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'you must be making a living off my tax dollars as a swivel servant of some kind or another.'

    No, we all making a living off the tax dollars of auto executives, who made much more than you and me.
  137. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'how about all the companies they employ to do work for them as well. Suppliers, vendors, wholesalers... you name it. Call it another 30,000 people'

    When you draw out the chart of people affected, from top to bottom, from autoworkers to suppliers, auto executives are on the top of the list where all people under him affected by him.

    Are you saying we should subsidize to keep his bonus?
  138. jens gessner from Canada writes: CallofDuty - you wrote: 'The unions still cannot take that fact is they're demands have caused the crash in the US Auto Sector.'

    You are naively chiming in with the government and GM's position. But that doesn't make your argument credible.

    GM (and Chrysler) is losing more money/vehicle than the TOTAL labour costs (incl. non-union) for each verhicle they sell. Verify these numbers for yourself if you like: $30 Billion loss for 2008 divided by vehicle sales of $8 Million = $3,500 loss/vehicle (NYTimes). Labour costs are less than $2,000/vehicle on average. That means: Even if union workers agreed to work FOR FREE, it would not return GM to profitability.

    Bowing to all concessions would shave max. $400 of the production costs.

    Get it?

    The current concessions demanded from CAW/UAW are designed to put downward wage pressure on ALL producers in North America, a clear attempt to undermine union achievements. Wake up, people.
  139. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sceptical Reader from Toronto, Canada writes:

    'Unions and workers wanting to much killed GM.'

    ** GM's inability to run its business properly killed GM.
  140. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: jens gessner from Canada writes: CallofDuty - you wrote: 'The current concessions demanded from CAW/UAW are designed to put downward wage pressure on ALL producers in North America, a clear attempt to undermine union achievements.'

    In other words, the CAW/UAW must have put 'upward' pressures on wages of ALL producers in North America before the concessions.

    They must be very proud of this achievement and ALL producers should say 'thank you' to CAW/UAW.

    LOL
  141. Nick B. from Canada writes: All this talk about trade disparities with South Korea is nonsense. If North American auto manufacturers had unfettered access to ROK markets they'd still sell next to nothing there, because the domestic market in South Korea is well catered to by its own producers. South Korean cars sell well here because they are inexpensive and now have reached a level of quality and reliability that makes them very, very attractive, at a lower price point than North American vehicles.
  142. Johnny come Lately from Scarborough, Canada writes: CAW says they are being blackmailed. That is not news and you don't have to advertise it. That is the same medicine you had been giving to the D3 in the past few decades.
    That is the exact problem with GM and CAW. They can never work together to pull the company out of hot water.
    Late last year, I read about GM employees will be cut 3 to 7% in salary. Then CAW agreed to cut 10% (from $70 to $63) in benefits early this year. Now what about the GM employees and classified (their terminology for management?)? Are they taking more pay cuts?
    GM is doomed.
  143. John Johnson from Canada writes: Steve Robertson, 'I think you (i.e. me) got lucky. I had the same luck with a truck. The problem for GM is, these stories aren't the norm.' I think the issue is that, if you had a problem, you are more likely to vent online than someone who was / is happy with their purchase and has no reason to vent online. Must be lots of happy D3 customers then!
  144. Chris Halford from Ottawa, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Chris Halford from Ottawa, I have a defined benefit pension-plan that is currently back-stopped by enough funds put in it by Chrysler Canada throughout the years. And ultimately, it will be backstopped by the Ontario/Canadian governments too. ** Why are you moaning so much then? I, John Perry, as a law-abiding taxpayer, asked you if you had a DBPP as well? Since you live in Ottawa, you must be making a living off my tax dollars as a swivel servant of some kind or another. ** I said clearly that I ONLY HAVE RRSPs. I have no DBPP. Surely, even with your limited attention span you can figure out that the fact that I only have my RRSPs tells you that I'm not in the civil service. I work in the private sector. If you are, would you like your remuneration and benefits packages listed on a forum for all to see and distort? ** I'm not, so it's irrelevant. I'm not sure what you're talking about but if you're referring to this urban myth about unionized auto workers making $70/hour and how that is segued into auto workers and their unions killing GM, I agree that both pieces of information are false. Somebody points ou above that even if GM paid nothing to their workers on the shop floor, they would still be losing $1,500 per vehicle - that's a clear indication that the problem is GM's business model, not the workers who are being used as a scapegoat by the seeming rising tide of neo-cons.
  145. Bill Darling from Canada writes: John Perry - good to see you have planned for your future; however,
    you might want to check into how protected your pension would be in a bankruptcy action; for starters, check box 20 on your latest T4 for RPP contributions; these are the monies identified by your employer as their contribution to your pension; only these monies are covered by the PBGF; ( have seen some T4s, and this amounts to ~6% of base wages; this would provide for a pension payout <$950/month ); all other monies paid out of the pension fund are considered 'bonus', and will be adjusted; in the eyes of the bankruptcy court, any surplus money ( over and above the RPP contributions ) currently in the pension fund will be segregated and moved to a pool for general use; your claim for the bonus pension will fall behind secured creditors, et al.
  146. John Johnson from Canada writes: Edwin, for transparency purposes, please let all us readers know the following:

    1) What vehicle do you drive, or do you use public transit?
    2) Do you have a job and, if so, is it with a foreign-owned company unaffiliated with the D#?
    3) Do you have any post retirement benefits in your remuneration package (assuming that you are employed)?
    4) Do you live on your own?

    Answers to these questions would help us posters perhaps understand you and your 'logic'.
  147. Commander Groovechild from Canada writes: GM at least has business options. It's better to have options than no options at all. Look at California. California is bordering on bankruptcy. It doesn't have many options, though. The Governator might be terminated in a couple of years.
  148. R. Canuck from Canada writes: I feel sorry for all the workers at the dealerships that are being shut down. Technicians, sales people, receptionists all the folks who will be out of a job. Hard to feel sorry for the big companies, but not so hard to identify with the people in our communities that will be out of work. Not a good day!
  149. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: G&M omit the underscores in my previous link:

    (Honda manufacturing plants)
    http://tinyurl.com/r27g6u

    More of John Perry's dual standards: 'We were given those covers to advertise to the clueless amongst us that buying domestic made vehicles built by Big Three at original Big Three manufacturing facilities ( sorry Alliston/Cambridge, you don't count) mattered. But this bozo went ahead and put it on his import !'

    I see you look down on your fellow Canadians in Ontario working in Alliston and Cambridge, nice.
  150. Outlier in Calgary from Calgary, Canada writes: There is plenty of blame to go around. Total mismanagment by GM, poor engineering and design, combative whining extortionist labourers with unrealistic expectations. All combined to leave GM and Chrystler in the horrible shape they are in now. Now all of these parties are asking me to pay for their mismanagement, greed, mistakes with my taxdollars which are frankly better spent on health care, education or even fostering new industries. Who can blame the CAW types on here for trying to defend what they have? Of course they are. However, what they need to realize is that it is simply not realistic, that their employer is bankrupt and, like an angry victim searching for a nearby party with the deepest pockets to sue, comes demanding money from government to save the foreign companies they work for. Unless we speak up our useless governments will think their is more political gain from spending our money than political loss. That is why the dealers will get thrown under the bus while GM factory workers might get saved. Dealers, their employees and hence, their votes, are spread out. Factory workers = concentration of voters= potential political gain. Also, slowing down these bankruptcies is government's way of spreading out the shocks to the economy.
  151. Photo Radar from Canada writes: I sure hope the government bails out the dealers. They need help and fast!! They helped the auto union, and the banks so why not the dealers?
  152. Ron Cherry from Canada writes: Enough of this bashing of the D3, you negative types out there can't see the forest for the trees.

    I, for one am going to do my part to help out our domestic car industry by buying their products to replace our fleet here. We have been meaning to get our 8 year old vehicles changed over, they all have 200,000km or more on them, getting long on the tooth so to speak.

    There's 8 to buy, and while I was going to be open-minded about it, decided in the end to do my part to help out my fellow neighbour. We're getting 2 Ford Fusions, 3 Cobalts, and 3 Calibers.

    The deals we were offered on all of these were great - Fusions, with tax and everything came to $24,800 each, the Cobalts came to $26,000 each, while the Calibers were the best deal of all $19,000. Now I was aware of the fact the Cobalts are going to be discontinued sometime in the future, but I have enough confidence in GM that they will be properly serviced.

    The Toyotas and Hondas were prohibitively more expensive, and would have looked out of place in a place advertising itself as being proudly 100% Canadian owned.

    Our business is the designing, manufacturing & installing of rollforming equipment, strip metal processing equipment & roll form tooling. We sell exclusively in North America, and while the recent past has been somewhat rocky, we have managed to stay competitive.

    I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Perry, we should be strengthening our industrial base, and concentrating on giving a hand up to our own home-grown industries.
  153. R. Canuck from Canada writes: Good post Ron Cherry... the only way to support a business is to buy their product.
  154. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Johnson from Canada writes:
    1) What vehicle do you drive, or do you use public transit?
    2) Do you have a job and, if so, is it with a foreign-owned company unaffiliated with the D#?
    3) Do you have any post retirement benefits in your remuneration package (assuming that you are employed)?
    4) Do you live on your own?

    None of your business.
    Not relevant for anyone object to bailout.
  155. jens gessner from Canada writes: Edwin Lee - Look at the bigger bicture to understand GM's downfall, not the unions.

    GM was poorly managed. Either their products were substandard by design, or they offered good products and failed miserably at marketing. Either way, it is a mangement issue, is it not?

    With respect to past CAW/UAW agreements: The car manufacturer sits at the table, too. And they sign (agree) when negotiations are over. Don't tell me they always had a gun to their had. Collective bargaining has been around for many years. GM has been profitable for most of that time.
    If GM's mangement believed that a union demand would bring the company down, should they agree? Are they serving their shareholders if they agree?

    Again, verify the numbers, if you like. They do not point to labour costs as the cause for GM's bankruptcy, despite what the government and GM want to make you believe.

    However, rarely are management failures even mentioned here. Why is that?
  156. Photo Radar from Canada writes: SAVE THE DEALERS!! BAIL THEM OUT NOW!
  157. Sebastian Cobe from Calgary, Canada writes: Seems to me that alot of these dealerships aren't really dealerships. They remind me of my home town VW dealership. Was pretty much a service center that also sold used cars traded into larger VW dealerships.

    They would order you a new car from the city and arrange for a test drive there if you wanted.
  158. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes:
    None of your business.
    Not relevant for anyone object to bailout.

    Actually it is VERY relevant.

    After having to read your illogical nonsense and union
    bashing for what would seem like eternity,
    it is very relevent.

    Did you ever purchase a new car?
    Have you ever been denied employment by a union shop?
    Are you related to Dick Chaney?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>
  159. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: jens gessner from Canada writes: 'GM was poorly managed. Either their products were substandard by design, or they offered good products and failed miserably at marketing. Either way, it is a mangement issue, is it not?'

    Absolutely agreed that GM management caused the failure of GM. They should take the blame.

    Totally innocent taxpayers should stay out ot the bailout and should not be asked to pay.

    p.s. The same poor managements/executives agreed to the CAW package that the company cannot afford. Not autoworkers' fault though.
  160. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Ron Cherry and John Perry,

    I hope you keep posting to entertain our readers.
  161. John Johnson from Canada writes: Edwin,

    How come
    I cannot get you to answer any questions?
    Keeping quiet is your strategy, yes
    I know.
    Keeping to your hard and fast logic (?) is illogical.
    Or are we missing something?
    May I suggest
    One thing?
    Read and appreciate what others post, even if a dissenting opinion.
    I certainly do!
  162. Bill Darling from Canada writes: the D3 are going to need to expand their customer base, possibly take the same approach the the 'imports' did during the 70s & 80s -
    target the new car buyer ( ie teenager, college grad ) with inexpensive, reliable transportation; unfortunately, the cost of producing these vehicles in NA is high ( labour cost ~same as for a Cadillac ); hence imports; the D3 can no longer subsidize the cost of the smaller vehicles by increased margins on the larger vehicles - too
    much competition and reduced market share; so to rebuild their businesses, what choices do they have??
  163. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Also Ron Cherry,

    Among your three cars (Fusion, Cobalt and Caliber), two are manufactured in the USA and one from Mexico (Fusion). D3 are American corporations.

    How do you see any relations of the above to '100% Canadian owned'? Can I have whatever you are smoking Ron?
  164. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: The market is over saturated with auto companies. In a free market economy only the strong and competitive survive. GM and Chrysler will not exist within 12 months, or less. They are too weak and non competitive.

    The Gov't is trying to stagger and delay the job loses to minimize the political affect. A wise play by any Gov't in power. But make no mistake these two companies are toast. Only the public spin and posturing remains to be played out by the CAW and the Gov't.

    GM's market share has shrunk from nearly 65% just a few decades ago to 15.8% and declining at a astonishingly rapid rate. Any fool that spends $30,000 on a GM or Crapsyler is an idiot. The value of the product is virtually worthless as a trade in at any other dealership or on the open re-sale market.

    BUY HONDA!
    BUY TOYOTA!
    BUY KIA!

    RIP GM...(An old dead dinosaur)
  165. John Perry from Canada writes: Bill Darling, thank you for the compliment. I know all of what you write about, but am unconcerned because of my advance financial planning. Anything John Perry receives from Chrysler will only be considered a bonus, to be enjoyed for as long as it lasts.

    I naturally feel sorry for my fellow autoworkers who haven't been so fortunate ( except of course those who do not buy what they build ). And while I know it makes a lot of people on this board happy to see hard-working people suffer and potentially lose their jobs, this does not diminish the fact John Perry has astutely not ties his fortune to only one benefactor.

    Richard Merriman, you state ' Incidently, referring to yourself in the third person is an interesting pscychological ploy that speaks volumes about your mental state.'
    You are right about this being a psychological ploy, but my mental state is just fine. BTW,have you ever checked out Edwin Lee's posts and how he writes, mixing tenses, garbling his sentences, writing as you would expect someone from T.O's Chinese community to speak?

    Remember the ' Jimmy' episode from Seinfeld? One of the funniest episodes from that series of all time - that's where I get this third person stuff. You really think I write like that? It's called injecting a bit of levity in these discussions.

    John Johnson, don't expect Edwin to give you answers to your questions. Only autoworkers are required to list their names, addresses, rank, serial numbers, and wage/benefits packages ! Besides, it's obvious he drives an import ( if he's old enough to drive), and is totally brainwashed to believe Asian-anything is the best.

    jens gessner, bang on, you at least see things even-handedly.

    What can I say Ron Cherry, thanks for being loyal to your continent and your fellow Canadians. You can go to bed at night knowing you have not stabbed your fellow tax-paying Canadian in the back!!

    Buy Domestic Everyone - Save Our Future !!

  166. joe garcia from Canada writes: Root Causes =

    Poor Management,
    Overpaid Labour
    Lower Quality,
    Lower Reliability,
    Less Bang for Buck,
    Less Client-Centric
    Lower Fuel Efficiency,
    Poorer Engineering..

    Logic is prevailing, free market ruled by consumers is alive and well in Canada.
  167. Photo Radar from Canada writes: The dealers paid their fair share of taxes, they deserve a bail out!!
  168. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes:RIP GM...(An old dead dinosaur)

    Edwin Lee, is that you?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  169. jens gessner from Canada writes: Edwin Lee - you wrote: 'Totally innocent taxpayers should stay out ot the bailout and should not be asked to pay.'

    No argument here. Bailouts to one or two manufacturers will grant them an unfair competitive advantage over other producers who have been managing their affairs prudently. And that is contrary to free market philosophies.

    I argue that job losses at GM will be compensated when other manufacturers hire to meet increased demand for THEIR products. This is how the free market should work.
  170. Fiat Lux from Canada writes: >>>

    Are we at the dawn of change in this industry or a period of recharging? I would think the latter as there is very little chatter regarding changes in the infracture of this industry. A vital sign of dawn of new era would perhaps be marked by 'service stations'
    that will exchange standardized energy packs like we currently 'fill up' the gas tank. The energy packs and servicing would be provided by electric utility companies if the power pack is electrical, and consumers pays in a manner profitable for the utility companies like we pay for gas that is in a manner profitable to the petroleum industry.

    <<<
  171. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Maple Leaves from Canada writes: I was talking to an autoworker that worked for Chrysler Brampton Plant and now currently works at Toyota's Cambridge plant.

    He is very impressed Toyota's commitment to Quality control and efficiency. He is also impressed with the communication and the partnership between management and the employees. He really feels it's a team effort and very different to what he experienced at Chryslers.
    ____________________________________

    Another view;

    J. Frank Parnell from Canada writes: I work in a Toyota assembly plant. The layoffs go back over ten years, wages have been frozen for two, and there's talk of wage reduction. Toyota is using this opportunity to get rid of employee's with health problems, restrictions, those who are too old, as well as those they feel take too much time off. The seniority list is being ignored, and those who are 'favorites', or related to top managers, are being held back and not laid off. One of Toyota's ongoing in house rules is to be sure that 'associates' never have a sense of job security. Seven more years and I'll be finished with this company, and it can't come fast enough. I'd never own one...I drive a Buick.
  172. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes:
    'U.S. dealers who sell less than 35 cars a year were among those notified in the first round of cuts.'

    I had no idea that there were dealerships for any brand that sold less than 35 cars a year.

    Is that a misprint?
  173. Jimmy Jones from Ottawa, Canada writes: If people who 'paid their faire share of taxes' deserve bailouts, what about Nortel? What about people who declared personal bankruptcy? Where is the money coming from? And more importantly, are you going to pay them through a tax increase?
  174. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: My grandmother drove Buicks since the invention of fire. Now even she hates them. Today she drives a Toyota Camry and loves it! All her beehive hairdo buddies at the bridge club drive imports too.

    This statement says alot. If GM can not sell to their aging legacy client base (misinformed and lacking product knowledge), just who can they sell to?

    The answer.....no one.
  175. Michael Popowich from victoria, Canada writes: And what is the future for NASCAR?? Thar should be a discount on chewing tobaccy and straw cowboy hats. And what about tailgate party's...Aw evolution is an amazing thing.
  176. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: TO: John Johnson from Canada
    1) What vehicle do you drive, or do you use public transit?

    I never said any experience on bad D3 vehicles and not relevant to the discussion.

    2) Do you have a job and, if so, is it with a foreign-owned company unaffiliated with the D#?

    My job has nothing affiliated to any car companies or their suppliers, etc.

    3) Do you have any post retirement benefits in your remuneration package (assuming that you are employed)?

    I subscribed to it, deducted from my paycheque.

    4) Do you live on your own?

    None of your business.
  177. John Perry from Canada writes: 'Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Also Ron Cherry,

    Among your three cars (Fusion, Cobalt and Caliber), two are manufactured in the USA and one from Mexico (Fusion). D3 are American corporations.

    How do you see any relations of the above to '100% Canadian owned'? Can I have whatever you are smoking Ron? '

    Hmmm, looks like he might have you there Ron. Let's see if I can help. I congratulated you for supporting your ' continent', so maybe that can be a point in your favour?

    As for D3 being American-owned corporations, yes they are. But if I'm not mistaken, Ford Canada, GM Canada, & Chrysler Canada are wholly independent subsidiaries of the parent corporation. And any profits that accrue here are profits made by the subsidiaries, and show up on CRA accounts, not American IRS.

    But, and this is the main point, all the cars you list at least were not dumped on North American shores like the Korean crap people rave about. Proper duties and taxes and levies were probably assessed.

    Regardless, thanks for thinking of your neighbour. I'm sure John Perry speaks for all other CAW'ers when he wishes you good luck in your business. And even though I don't smoke, I know where your'e coming from. We need more nationalists like you who put country and continent first - North America for North Americans.
  178. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'Buy Domestic Everyone - Save Our Future '

    You can keep on calling and crying this forever.

    Not much people will buy vehicles from a person's outcry, otherwise, D3 can just hire you instead of paying for TV commercials.

    Again, D3 is not domestic to Canada. They are all foreign owned companies.
  179. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes:
    'U.S. dealers who sell less than 35 cars a year were among those notified in the first round of cuts.'
    Is that a misprint?

    No.

    There have been many 'mini' dealers across the US in
    small towns for decades. Almost like a 7/11 with gardening
    and auto thrown in.
    The State laws and a potent campaign by the US dealer
    association has made it very difficult for GM to
    close them down.

    That has changed due to the threat of bankruptcy and
    the involvement by the federal government.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  180. Wayne Morrison from Toronto, Canada writes: Anyone who has had dealings with a GM car salesman will not lament the closing of these dealerships. These are people who should never have been in the sales game to begin with, and their passing is all for the better.
  181. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: jens gessner from Canada writes: 'No argument here. Bailouts to one or two manufacturers will grant them an unfair competitive advantage over other producers who have been managing their affairs prudently. And that is contrary to free market philosophies.
    'I argue that job losses at GM will be compensated when other manufacturers hire to meet increased demand for THEIR products. This is how the free market should work. '

    No. Demand in NA will not grow back to the same within the next 10 years. This is a recession and there are job losses in every sector.

    Letting D2 died will givie more competitive advantage to Ford to stay stronger.
  182. Mudtown Boy from Owen Sound, Canada writes: For 18 years I worked for GMAC trying to teach GM dealers how to come into the 20th century. What a hopeless job. These people were determined to become dinosaurs. No interest in customer service, fair pricing, employee relations - the dealers were primarily made up of archaic egotists. I am happy that their day of reckoning has arrived. RIP.
  183. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: The usual assortment of reflexively anti-Detroit-three posters. I have no particular alligiance either way, but clearly the Detroit-three still do play a big part in the economy of Canada, supporting an extensive parts and support industry... On balance, it was worth supporting Chrysler and G.M., BUT only in this very restrictive way. My concern it that G.M. will use its loans to build new plans in cheap labour markets -- particularly China. That should not be allowed as part of this bail-out. As for a choice of cars, the anti-Detroit sentiment is very outdated folks; Ford makes vehicles among the best in quality and reliability right now, and G.M. and Chrysler are close behind... Do not buy they because they are linked historically to Canada, but DO buy them for the shear VALUE. Unless you prefer to spend an extra 5-10K for a vehicle for prestige... Yeah, some Detroit-three cars have had poor quality in the past, but that is almost all behind them. I have owned Mazdas, Fords, and Chryslers and have been generally satisfied with each.... There is FAR too much mythologizing about quality differences that are so minute now, they are difficult to detect... (unless one is buying European - whose vehicles are more inconsistent). Enough reflexive anti-Detroit hysteria. Let the facts speak. Cheers.
  184. John Perry from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy, where did you get that information about J. Frank Parnell ?
  185. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'As for D3 being American-owned corporations, yes they are. But if I'm not mistaken, Ford Canada, GM Canada, & Chrysler Canada are wholly independent subsidiaries of the parent corporation. And any profits that accrue here are profits made by the subsidiaries, and show up on CRA accounts, not American IRS.'

    Same for Toyota CAnada & Honda CAnada who paid taxes in Canada.
  186. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes:
    3) Do you have any post retirement benefits in your remuneration package (assuming that you are employed)?
    I subscribed to it, deducted from my paycheque.

    Talking about productivity..............!!!!!!!???????

    Edwin, you actually work for a company?

    How can you spend all these hours posting here if you are
    employed? Maybe you work at night, but if so, this is what you spend your days off on?

    >>>>>>>>>>>>
  187. donald patterson from lalaland, Canada writes: It is about time that these robbers were held to account,I only take my car to the dealer for warranty repairs,if you take it for anything else you will end up paying two or three times the cost. I am tired to see the mechanic standing by the parts window,going to the washroom, having a coffee or gabbing with his friends, while I pay $85.00 HST for the privilege .
  188. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: {correcting for spelling and format problems} The usual assortment of reflexively anti-Detroit-three posters. I have no particular allegiance either way, but clearly the Detroit-three still do play a big part in the economy of Canada, supporting an extensive parts and service industry... On balance, it was worth supporting Chrysler and G.M., BUT only in this very restrictive way. My concern it that G.M. will use its loans to build new plans in cheap labour markets -- particularly China. That should not be allowed as part of this bail-out. As for a choice of cars, the anti-Detroit sentiment is very outdated folks; Ford makes vehicles among the best in quality and reliability right now, and G.M. and Chrysler are close behind... Do not buy these cars because they are linked historically to Canada, but DO buy them for the shear VALUE. Unless you prefer to spend an extra 5-10K for a vehicle for the prestige... Yeah, some Detroit-three cars have had poor quality in the past, but that is almost all behind them. I have owned Mazdas, Fords, and Chryslers and have been generally satisfied with each.... There is FAR too much mythologizing about quality differences that are so minute now, they are difficult to detect... (unless one is buying European - whose vehicles are more inconsistent). Enough reflexive anti-Detroit hysteria. Let the facts speak. Cheers.
  189. Default User from Canada writes: Re: Oil/Gas prices ... the price difference between crude price and pump price could be related to the accounting method used, weighted avg. probably, and also government taxes applied at the pump ... in ontario, we are still being douible taxed at the pump, tax on tax.
  190. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: ps. I will not buy any vehicle primarily made (although that is getting more difficult to pin down these days) in a country with significantly unfair wages or working conditions; including China, Mexico, and Korea...

    I would sooner buy a Toyota made in Canada than a Ford made in Mexico...

    My current Chrysler Neon was made in the U.S.; not a great car, but cheap and easy to maintain and generally reliable.
  191. Day Trader from Toronto, Canada writes: The whole incidence is decided by supply & demand. The market (i.e. consumers) do not need that many U.S. cars and investment advisors and hence people in these industries were being laid off.
    This the the reality of life.
    Nothing worth to discuss to much or try to bail them out.
    People who lose jobs in these industry (selling car or selling stocks) just need some training and sell something else.
    Wake up!
  192. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: ' Asia for Asians, but the Rest of The World For Asians Too !'

    Wrong.
    When Asian immigrate to Canada, they are canadians.
    When European immigrate to Canada, they are canadians.
    When Obama's dad immigrate to US, they are US citizens. You should not say Africa for Africans.
  193. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: We must support Canadian manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, and resource extraction. If we don't who will?'

    Why, Canadian companies usually sell out the people who helped make them big... Look at any of the Telecom companies, Rogers, Telus, Bell... every time you call their call centers it's outsourced to some company in India. Those jobs were once manned by Canadians...
  194. kelly moss from Canada writes: harper should cut back 30,000 govt jobs , reduce medicare abt 20% , cut old age security and pensions abt 20% - maybe when some of you 'odd' posters feel the hit you would have a little empathy and a lot less to say .. 200 posts and all from the same whiny people -- about 10 good ones from people with a brain
  195. Just call me Nemo from Montreal, Canada writes: Robert MacDonald from Canada writes: The average world gdp per capita is about $10,000. Expect to see a continued decline heading in the direction. Good Ol' Globalization

    You are aware world GDP/ capita has risen significantly over the last 5, 10, 25 years, aren't you?

    You are aware that India and China each now have middle class populations greater than the whole Canadian population, aren't you?

    Good Ol' Globalization
  196. Claudia Adams from Toronto, Canada writes: macdaddy 1959 from How bad is it...no, really..., Canada writes: Don't worry, the Bilderberg Group met last week in Greece. They will decide what's best for us; as our leaders were there to pay them homage...
    Don't fret, just keep on griping in posts and do absolutely nothing... that's it...hmmm...green shoots...

    this is by far the most important and sensible comment made on this board, the significance of which obviously completely escapes its posters as no one has even as much as commented on it. Makes you wonder: if I had the choice between being ruled by an obscure bunch of elitist white guys or by the popular rule of this bunch here...hmm... perhaps we could do worse than Bilderberg!
  197. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: RE: Harold K from Windsor

    'My concern it that G.M. will use its loans to build new plans in cheap labour markets -- particularly China'

    Harold, I understand your point about keeping the jobs in Canada, but what if GM wants to build the cars where it's sold, in China? I think GM's future viability depends on strenghtening it's foothold in the Chinese Market. With a 30% savings rate, and little debt, the average Chinese person is going to be ready to buy their 'first' car. Would you rather GM NOT compete in that market with Honda, Toyota, VW, BMW?

    Building the GM vehicle in Canada, then shipping it to China will make the cost WAY too high. It can't compete against the other makers.

    Correct me If I am wrong.
  198. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: We must support Canadian manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, and resource extraction. If we don't who will?

    When you are at the grocery store look for local products. When you are at the building supply store again buy Canadian.

    When buying an automobile look at companies that support Canada such as Ford, Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and GM.

    Mitsubishi, Volkswagen (aside from their vans made in the Chrysler Windsor Assembly Plant) BMW. Mercedes, Kia, Hyundai etc. contribute nothing to Canada. If they wish to set up shop here then they would deserve our support as they would be contributing to the tax base of Canada. Hyundai closed a plant in Canada and turned their backs on us.

    Support those that support you in every purchase you can.
  199. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Yes John Perry, keep it up with your long live North America mentality, but Mexico is excluded.

    Not only that, so much for supporting your fellow Canadians when you obviously look down at your Ontario neighbors working in Alliston/Cambridge.

    I guess some are more equal then others.
  200. Interest from the West from Canada writes: So, let's see, how many plant jobs have been lost? How many dealership jobs are going to be lost? Explain to me again why sinking billions into this company was a good idea, wasn't it to protect Canadian jobs and help stabilize the Canadian economy? To help Ontarians out of a massive problem they didn't create themselves? Or was it so that this gov't could get into the automobile business? I thought the Conservatives stood for small gov't and private ownership. Guess I was wrong on both accounts.

    Will my grandchildren ever come out from under the Conservatives crushing debt load? Maybe their grandchildren....
  201. S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Harold K....while the sentiment of buying something 5-10K cheaper seems like sheer value. The fact is, that over the lifespan of the vehicle, you wind up paying the same, or more for a domestic, as you do for an 'import'. I have owned several of both, and currently manage a small fleet. While I have always listened to the argument that parts for a 'foreign' car are more expensive......the typical owner will not replace nearly as many on an import vs. a domestic. The depreciation of the domestic automakers models is also 20% more on a typical model. For example. Your Chrysler Neon ( or SX 2.0)in 2000 probably retailed for 14K. 8 years later it is almost fully depreciated, with a book value of around $2200. The same 2000 Honda Civic retailed for $18-19k or 5-6K more. However it has a book value of $8000. So it kept all of the extra value you would have invested. While the cost of ownership would have been less, as it rates much higher on reliability, repairs would have been fewer. Of course, this has been the carrot the D3 have dangled for years, as many consumers don't give a whit, except out the door price with 0% financing, and a nice low monthly payment, despite that they were paying more on an annual basis to keep their cruddy Pontiac Sunfires on the road.
  202. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: I said summer of 2009 is the Summer of rage. Looks like I am going to be correct.
  203. Keeping It Real from Canada writes: GM is not capable to make smaller cars...

    The Chevrolet Aveo is a South Korean made car, is this a DOMESTIC car?

    Hmm, lets hear some CAW logic...
  204. Photo Radar from Canada writes: Sorry but I already supported CAW with my fricken taxes...no more money for you guys....get lost CAW.

    And if CAW logic says that they are entitled to a bailout because they paid their taxes, then the dealers better be bailed out as well.

    BOYCOTT D3 !
  205. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Why not play it safe with Honda, Toyota, Kia?'

    Exactly. When people make decision to buy a car, they want to play it safe.

    10 years ago, more people play it safe to buy GM with longer track record of quality.

    When GM lost market share to Toyota during the past 10 years, we knew more people play it safe by buying Toyota.

    Want people to believe GM has better quality? Need at least another 10 years, provide Toyota did not improve.
  206. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: '
    . Look at any of the Telecom companies, Rogers, Telus, Bell... every time you call their call centers it's outsourced to some company in India. Those jobs were once manned by Canadians...

    And they are slowly coming back. Globalization as we know it
    is dead.
    You may call it 'protectionism' or what ever,
    the US is finally starting to realize they can not bleed
    manufacturing jobs forever, nor can they afford to be in a
    constant trade deficit in their currant account.

    Canada will follow shortly.

    The Asian car manufacturers are in for a very big surprise.
    Either they will open their borders to trade, or they will face
    taxes/duties at the US/Canadian border.

    Japan did not get to be the worlds second largest economy
    by practicing fair trade.

    >>>>>>>>>>>

  207. Adom Postma from Canada writes: To me, it seems that this is potentially a result of the strategy of planned obselesence (sp?) catching up to the automakers. The D3 were selling great, well made cars, but they wouldn't break down and therefore their market started to disappear. So just clip some quality here, add some flashy gadgets there and you have a new market. . . What they weren't counting on was someone coming in and going against their plan. (Whether that be Asian, or European car makers). And then they are caught off guard and have to try and catch up to the quality improvements that the other companies had continued to make while the D3 looked to make profits instead. Now this is just speculation, and I could be wrong. I also am not saying that they don't make quality cars now either. Just trying to come up with reasons for failure outside of the normal cited ones.
  208. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Just call me Nemo from Montreal, Canada writes: 'You are aware that India and China each now have middle class populations greater than the whole Canadian population, aren't you?'

    You are aware that India and China each have higher population than Canada, aren't you?
  209. S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best policy..................................

    So the people who sell these cars, work on them, distribute parts for them here, aren't a part of Canada?

    Just because the pieces are put together somewhere else, doesn't mean these companies don't pay taxes, or aren't good corporate citizens. And their staff certainly do live here, and contribute to society, so your viewpoint is a wee bit skewed.

    At the end of the day, we should help our own economy, but we are also consumers, and our manufacturing industry should remain competitive. We live in a global economy after all. If our auto industry can't remain competitive in a free market economy, without concessions. Then it shouldn't exist.

    Unless they shut down our borders, we will be participating globally. We can't pick and choose which items we'll limit, and which ones wont. The last place to try that kind of protectionism was Russia. We saw how well that worked out.....ever driven a Lada or Skoda?
  210. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: 'the US is finally starting to realize they can not bleed manufacturing jobs forever, nor can they afford to be in a constant trade deficit in their currant account. '

    As you wished, it would be their interest to move all auto production back to US.
    Also UAW interest to have more UAW membes paying UAW union dues too.
  211. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best policy..................................

    So the people who sell these cars, work on them, distribute parts for them here, aren't a part of Canada?
    ____________________________________

    Those companies don't contribute to Canada. They are a net drain on our country.

    Ford, Toyota, Chrysler, GM and Honda have made HUGE investments here and employ thousands of Canadians directly and hundreds of thousands in part manufacturing etc.
  212. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: The following are the Canadian members of the Bilderberg Group: James S. Duncan, David Frum, Anthony G.S. Griffin, Donald S. Macdonald, and good ole' Conrad M. Black. Perhaps, Claudia Adams can stand outside their mansions and ask their help on behalf of all Canadians?
  213. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: The Small 3 are US based corporations and could care less about the CAW. They do care about free Canadian Gov't hand outs.
  214. A Postma from Canada writes: Also, thinking on what (I believe it was) John Perry said. He stated that our quality of living would decline if these companies fail and everything is moved overseas.
    Wouldn't that be fair after the way North America and Europe has taken advantage of everyone else over 100's of years? Wouldn't a slight decline in standard of living be what's coming to us? Wouldn't that be justice playing itself out in a way?
    Also, John Perry, hugely impressed that you are proud of the fact that you took advantage of 'the system' and milked it for what its worth. . . I don't want to be mean, but that seems like stealing from everyone else who contributed to it but didn't get quite the 'payout' you did. And please inform me nicely if I am incorrectly interpreting what you have said.
  215. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: 'Not only that, so much for supporting your fellow Canadians when you obviously look down at your Ontario neighbors working in Alliston/Cambridge.'

    John Perry only treat union workers are his fellow canadians. Non-union workers are not his fellews

    But when he asked other non-union workers to subsidize them, he thinks he is seeking support form fellow canadians.
  216. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes:My concern it that G.M. will use its loans to build new plans in cheap labour markets -- particularly China. That should not be allowed as part of this bail-out
    -------------------------------------------
    GM has already stated they will import 50 000small cars from China by 2011. So we're bailing them out & they're taking our manufacturing jobs away from Canada to ship them to China Absolutely ridiculous!
  217. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: We must support Canadian manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, and resource extraction. If we don't who will?

    When you are at the grocery store, look for local products. When you are at the building supply store, again buy Canadian.

    When buying an automobile look at companies that support Canada such as Ford, Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and GM.
    -----------------------------------------
    I completely agree, it has to be a 2way street.
  218. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Those companies don't contribute to Canada. They are a net drain on our country.

    Hope other countries will not see it this way.
  219. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: S Piercey, forget it buddy. Our friend Honesty is getting lazy lately by resolving in copy/paste his own comments across multiple threads.

    Honesty should start manufacturing clothing and electronics in Canada if he's so keen in supporting the Canadian economy.
  220. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: S Piercey from Orangeville

    'Unless they shut down our borders, we will be participating globally.'
    -----

    I couldn't agree with you more. A lot of the comments posted on this article are potentially GM related workers, and they're way of thinking is somewhat, prehistoric.

    . So, you can't build a nice car.
    . You can't manage your expenses
    . You can't manage your unions and employees

    You can't compete, so what? you shut the borders? Thats the stupidest thing on Earth.

    . Work harder for less, YES, GM Workers, you guys are way-overpaid
    . Change, be more dynamic, be patient
    . Think about where you CAN compete and really do it

    Rogers, Dell, call centres, why in India? Well, first of all, they have a HUGE supply of highly trained, technical staff. The average Canadian HATES those jobs. Thats really what is going on.

    You can't blame Mexicans, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, for doing jobs that you don't want to do, or you ask for WAY too high pay.

    It's time to wake up fellas.
  221. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: You (Honesty is the best Policy, from Canada) wrote: We must support Canadian manufacturing, agriculture, forestry, and resource extraction. If we don't who will?

    When you are at the grocery store look for local products. When you are at the building supply store again buy Canadian.

    When buying an automobile look at companies that support Canada such as Ford, Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and GM.

    Mitsubishi, Volkswagen (aside from their vans made in the Chrysler Windsor Assembly Plant) BMW. Mercedes, Kia, Hyundai etc. contribute nothing to Canada. If they wish to set up shop here then they would deserve our support as they would be contributing to the tax base of Canada. Hyundai closed a plant in Canada and turned their backs on us.

    Support those that support you in every purchase you can.

    ______________________________________

    I'm not supporting protectionism. We are a trading nation.

    I am supporting the same kind of economic nationalism which is evident in Korea and Japan where most of the population would not even consider buying a foreign car or any other product if a domestic one was available. They understand the importance of supporting their neighbours.

    Buy Canadian when you can.
  222. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: GM has already stated they will import 50 000small cars from China by 2011. So we're bailing them out & they're taking our manufacturing jobs away from Canada to ship them to China Absolutely ridiculous!
    -----------------------
    The really funny part is when NASCAR goes all Japanese because most the car built in USA is going to be Japanese.
  223. Photo Radar from Canada writes: If its union made, forget the support, the government just propped them up with billions. They are nothing but a anchor to Canada.
  224. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: Unless they shut down our borders, we will be participating globally.

    'I am supporting the same kind of economic nationalism which is evident in Korea and Japan where most of the population would not even consider buying a foreign car or any other product if a domestic one was available.'

    ------------------------------------------------

    You're not accurate.

    Japanese love the Apple Ipod, and consume it like mad.
    Korea loves Nokia phones, and buy the best ones.
    Chinese love Ipods too, as well as Coke, Levi's jeans, and GM cars

    If your product is in demand, people will buy it. The folks in Japan aren't stupid. XBox 360 rocks? they BUy it....same with ipod.

    GM is crap? why should they buy it?

    Constructive responses only.
  225. Photo Radar from Canada writes: I support Canadian business. I switched my beer to another good brand that is non-union made beer. You can thank CAW for that!
  226. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'I am supporting the same kind of economic nationalism which is evident in Korea and Japan where most of the population would not even consider buying a foreign car or any other product if a domestic one was available. They understand the importance of supporting their neighbours. Buy Canadian when you can. '

    Korean don't buy Japanese car to support their 'neighbour'.

    D3 are not Canadian.

    When did you change from supporting our country to supporting our neighbour? Mexico is US's neighbour.
  227. C Montcler from Canada writes: Thousands of jobs have been lost and thousands more will be lost because of mismanagement of the ' 3 big ones' . A bunch of amateurs who never saw the world was changing and continued their stupid ways.
    3 YEARS AGO (that's 2006) a GM executive told me that hybrid cars were years away, maybe 10 but certainly 5! Can you get more stupid!
  228. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:

    'We are a trading nation.

    [...]

    Buy Canadian when you can.'

    -----------------
    How do you 'trade' if you don't buy outside of Canada?
  229. Andre Poirier from Canada writes: show me the list ...
  230. R. M. from Canada writes: Why is the list not made public? Surely we will learn of them but obviously in dribs and drabs.....don't get it.
  231. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: 'If your product is in demand, people will buy it. The folks in Japan aren't stupid. XBox 360 rocks? they BUy it....same with ipod.'

    Autoworkers are spoiled for too long to ignore and unable to understand the word 'competition'

    Every country has some products that are 'one-way' trade that other country cannot compete with.

    Sony TV did not compete on cheap price, it compete on quality.
  232. John Foster from Canada writes: 'sd c from oshawa, Canada writes: John Smith from Canada writes: GM vehicles are ridicously over priced

    Lol How about a tranny for a Mini $10,000 , thats right they don't even sell rebuild parts you have to buy a new one.'

    sd c, GM models are overpriced. Smith was right and your criticism of him holds no water. I agree with you that some imports have more expensive parts than GM, like you say. However, I think the point is that a domestic's transmission may be twice as much an import's, but I the domestic's will break five times before the import's does...Instead of making cars that break but that are cheap to repair, import companies have just been making good cars, period.

    When people buy vehicles, especially in this day and age, they tend to buy the best value they can find, and that's common sense.

    The big three are not having trouble because the consumer doesn't know what a good car/deal is, the big three are losing money because the consumer DOES know what a good deal is. To argue that GM's cars are better value is ignorant of very clear automotive trends and is indicative of the narrow, backwards thinking that got the big three into trouble to begin with.
  233. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Mexico is US's neighbour.

    CAW workers: No....REALLY?!?! We thought they were on a seperate continent, hell, different planet inhabited by aliens making 'slave wages'.
  234. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: As for S. Korea there are 3 korean owned auto parts supplier in my area so I have no problem with them. They employ over 700, treat their workers well(according to numerous friends of mine who work there)
  235. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: ....You're not accurate.

    Japanese love the Apple Ipod, and consume it like mad.
    Korea loves Nokia phones, and buy the best ones.
    Chinese love Ipods too, as well as Coke, Levi's jeans, and GM cars

    If your product is in demand, people will buy it. The folks in Japan aren't stupid. XBox 360 rocks? they BUy it....same with ipod.

    GM is crap? why should they buy it?

    Constructive responses only.

    _________________________________

    Please explain why China insists that products sold there must be made there with a Chinese partner?

    Buicks sell like hotcakes in China but they are made there.

    Please explain why Wal-Mart failed in Korea until it was sold to a Korean company and changed from a Chinese product line to a Korean one?

    Why do Koreans spit on foreign cars on the street?

    I don't wish for those extremes but here in Canada we MUST learn to show support for each other.

    Some here would spit on their fellow countrymen and I for one deplore that attitude.

    When it comes to automobiles Canada manufactures some of the highest quality cars in the world. Ford, Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and GM are located here mainly for the quality of the workforce.

    We should support them.
  236. Sean Malone from Canada writes: Canada / US really need to introduce an import law on cars from countries that do not allow us to import to their countries or even equal cars to their countries. Global market place lets keep it fair. yes/no?
  237. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: My neighbours Honda has 450,000 KM's on it and all he replaced are the tires, oil and gas.

    My other neighbour bought a brand new Dodge Caravan and its been in the shop more than he drives it. (Tranny problems) Almost as bad as a Ford Windstar.

    Amazing.................
  238. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes:
    If your product is in demand, people will buy it. The folks in Japan aren't stupid. XBox 360 rocks? they BUy it....same with ipod.

    Rice and beef are in demand, yet not imported to Japan and
    SK............as a matter of fact, they are prohibited. As is tea,
    and many other staples.
    Foreign made cars are subject to a lengthy 'inspection',
    a import duty added on. (Illegal under WTO rules)

    This year alone China has passed 134 protectionist laws,
    the most bizarre being restrictions on carriers such as
    UPS and fedX, which are not permitted to deliver a express letter
    under 48 hr. (2 days)

    Globalization is over. Lets live with that fact, and go on.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  239. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: GM has already stated they will import 50 000small cars from China by 2011. So we're bailing them out & they're taking our manufacturing jobs away from Canada to ship them to China'

    China is the largest car sales market in the world, especially small cars.

    Auto companies will normally build cars close to the demand, which is 'normally' more cost effective.

    When GM is more profitable by build & sell cars in China, UAW members benefited as a majority shareholder.
  240. S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best Policy..............

    Yes the Asian markets wouldn't even consider buying a North American car.

    Have you read your Fiancial Post, or Business week? Where do you get your information?

    The sole reason why GM kept the Buick brand alive while they killed off Oldsmobile, and Pontiac was that it was highly regarded and purchased in the Asian market.

    While the rest of the country wakes up to the new dynamic in the global economy, you can support your local economy, which will fast become obsolete. Even the mom and pop stores caryy products manufactured somewhere else, by materials from another place entirely.
  241. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Just A Bystander from Canada writes

    ..REALLY...aliens making 'slave..s ...in Canada

    ______________________________

    Gee your comments look incoherent when I quote little bits of them.

    Kind of like you do to me?

    Do you have anything to contribute or just more waste space?
  242. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'When it comes to automobiles Canada manufactures some of the highest quality cars in the world. Ford, Honda, Toyota, Chrysler and GM are located here mainly for the quality of the workforce. We should support them. '

    Yes, provide bailout to Toyota & Honda too, to be fair.

    And you should have no problem subsidizing Toyota to buy GM.
  243. L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: GM is sending a letter??

    A letter by snailmail??

    We're in 2009. Perhaps GM would be smart enough to send an Email or Instant Messenger.... Is there a list of all the dealers who are kicked out?? Does anyone know ?? I've been googling to no avail to find out which GM dealers are getting kicked out, how many employees they have, how many car mechanics they have, exactly how many people will lose their jobs.

    Never mind. GM couldn't care less about Canadian dealers and Canadians losing their jobs.

    - = 1314
  244. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best Policy..............

    Yes the Asian markets wouldn't even consider buying a North American car.

    Have you read your Fiancial Post, or Business week? Where do you get your information?

    The sole reason why GM kept the Buick brand alive while they killed off Oldsmobile, and Pontiac was that it was highly regarded and purchased in the Asian market.

    While the rest of the country wakes up to the new dynamic in the global economy, you can support your local economy, which will fast become obsolete. Even the mom and pop stores caryy products manufactured somewhere else, by materials from another place entirely.
    _________________________________

    And this is good why?
  245. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy 'Please explain why China insists that products sold there must be made there with a Chinese partner?....' _____________________________ First and foremost, I agree with you that I do care about the Canadian economy greatly. Believe it or not, GM needs to gain a foothold in the Chinese market. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being nationalistic, I've never been to China except Hong Kong. I was born in Toronto. But Chinese emerging market has a lot of room for growth, at 6% projected annual growth in a recession, thats a pretty good incentive for GM to get over there. Building the GM cars in Canada and then shipping them to China will jack up the costs. Honda has plants in China. Also, China wants to secure jobs too. Just like us Chinese families would like to have a house, raise a family. The GM cars we will buy in Canada in the future will be made in Mexico, I guarantee you. Thats a seperate debate. Although on the outside, I am Chinese, in the inside, I am very much more Canadian than some. I don't hate the Sri Lanken Tamil's for protesting....I try to understand why they are doing it. Just as I do understand the economics behind GM putting plants in China. Don't forget, Chinese consume a hell-of-alot of BigMacs, and Coke, and always want the hottest Apple Product.
  246. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: GM reminds me of the fat, dumb, ugly Windows guy in the Apple ad's, while Toyota is the cool smart Mac guy.

    A fair comparision.............
  247. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: GM is sending a letter??

    A letter by snailmail??

    We're in 2009. Perhaps GM would be smart enough to send an Email or Instant Messenger.... Is there a list of all the dealers who are kicked out?? Does anyone know ?? I've been googling to no avail to find out which GM dealers are getting kicked out, how many employees they have, how many car mechanics they have, exactly how many people will lose their jobs.
    ________________________________________

    And why should GM tell you? If you were involved you would know by now.
  248. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: GM is sending a letter??

    A letter by snailmail??

    On the noon news I heard that GM was going to email the affected dealers this AM but they had a problem with their email service - the irony is too bitter.
  249. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy 'Please explain why China insists that products sold there must be made there with a Chinese partner?....' _____________________________ First and foremost, I agree with you that I do care about the Canadian economy greatly. Believe it or not, GM needs to gain a foothold in the Chinese market....
    ==========================================

    I agree with you about the auto market in China and I hope Ford and GM do well there.

    All I am saying is, in Canada please support your neighbours when you can.

    I don't think you can buy Canadian bananas (as an example)but you can buy Canadian lumber and drywall and use a Canadian company like Magna to source your parts from. Or if you are a retailer you can feature Canadian made or grown products in your store.

    Support those who support you.
  250. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Honesty, how do you define space? Physical space or hard drive space hosting an online forum? Perhaps you should do something about all those D3 cars sitting on the lot idle, wasting space.

    Also, I can quote you entirely, and it would sound just as contradictory. You advocate buying Canadian but you acknowledge that Canada is a trading nation by nature. It's only worth the trade when things are in your favor heh?
  251. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'All I am saying is, in Canada please support your neighbours when you can. '

    Another short-sighted post.

    Our population & demand not sufficient to buy everything we produced in Canada.

    Also, you should agree US supporting its neighbour Mexico by making all cars in Mexico.
  252. Richard Merriman from Reunion writes: Speaking of drywall, Chinese drywall being recalled - full of sulphur and other goodies.
    http://tinyurl.com/q5w2xn
  253. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Honesty, how do you define space? Physical space or hard drive space hosting an online forum? Perhaps you should do something about all those D3 cars sitting on the lot idle, wasting space.
    ____________________________________________________

    Actually inventories are low except for Toyota and they are working on that.
  254. T R from Canada writes: So someone makes $14.50 an hour in one plant and $50 in the other (it is not $76). Why does that automatically make $14.50 the 'right' number? Maybe the $14.50 are underpaid?

    A plumber in PEI makes $20 / hour and a plumber in Toronto makes $80 / hour.

    No one is buying GM crap? #1 in market share at 21% followed in second by Toyota, then Ford, Chrysler. Yes, it has dropped however to say noone is buying?

    I cannot believe how much satisfaction people are getting watching 000's of people lose their jobs and livelihoods. You make them sound like criminals for having good paying jobs.

    Why not tell us what you do and then we can do some comparisons to see if you are worth it. I really hope you are the lowest paid in your area of work, other wise you are grossly overpaid.
  255. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: 'It's only worth the trade when things are in your favor heh?'

    That's why I think buying locally to save the country is short-sighted.

    We can produce other unique, good design or technology advanced products to compete. No need to insist to keep competing in a dying product.
  256. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Edwin, oh yeah, must be due to those insane purchase incentives going on from the D3. Just watch the residual value drop like a stone. So much for value.
  257. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: T R from Canada writes:'Why not tell us what you do and then we can do some comparisons to see if you are worth it. '

    I will tell you if I ask you to subsidize my wages. But I don't have 'sense of entitlement' and I don't need to ask you.
  258. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'All I am saying is, in Canada please support your neighbours when you can. '

    Another short-sighted post.

    Our population & demand not sufficient to buy everything we produced in Canada.

    Also, you should agree US supporting its neighbour Mexico by making all cars in Mexico.
    ________________________________
    Obviously Edwin you did not understand my posts ....but after reading your's I'm not surprised that you could not understand.
  259. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: So then why is China & Mexico not being asked to contribute to this bail out as it seems to greatly benefit these 2 countries
  260. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: T R, nobody cares what auto workers make as long as taxpayers' are not asked to subsidize their wages and pensions.

    What others make is none of your concern, because nobody is asking you to subsidize their wages. Get it?
  261. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes:
    If your product is in demand, people will buy it. The folks in Japan aren't stupid. XBox 360 rocks? they BUy it....same with ipod.

    Rice and beef are in demand, yet not imported to Japan and
    SK............as a matter of fact, they are prohibited. As is tea,
    and many other staples.
    Foreign made cars are subject to a lengthy 'inspection',
    a import duty added on. (Illegal under WTO rules)

    This year alone China has passed 134 protectionist laws,
    the most bizarre being restrictions on carriers such as
    UPS and fedX, which are not permitted to deliver a express letter
    under 48 hr. (2 days)

    Globalization is over. Lets live with that fact, and go on
    -------------------------------------------
    This is what I'm saying about a one way flow, scarey to see how vulnerable we are
  262. A. Nonymous from TV Ville, United States writes: Lets legislate it that the Imports have to match domestics in terms of quality, so lets make sure that:

    1. Everything should be an 'option' , from wiper blades to tires, must be 'factory installed' on all new cars. Gotta keep the shop steward happy.

    2. MPGs must be lowered on all imports

    3. The transmission must be designed by the 'big-3' and should be designed to fail after about 50-75km

    4. Every import should need at least 3 recalls.

    5. Every import should have at least one design flaw, not serious enough to be considered a recall, but serious enough to warrant some time in the shop, at the owners expense of course.

    6. Every import should come with XM Radio, OnStar, and whatever kickbacks GM and the Big-3 get from other industries.

    7. Warranties should be reduced

    There, that should level the playing field a bit.
  263. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Edwin, oh yeah, must be due to those insane purchase incentives going on from the D3

    Actually, when D3 offered those 'employee discount' to customers, I told my friends that they are not far from bankruptcy.

    When they compete with more expensive Japanese cars and they are losing the battle, price is not the biggest problem. Offering more discounts just sink them faster. They may be able to get back some 'non-usual' buyers based on attractive pricing. Meanwhile, if they did not improve quality, it will created another 'bad word' against them.
  264. CallofDuty . from Canada writes: I don't think GM/Chrysler ever mastered JIT(Just-in-Time) inventory. Rather the opposite.
  265. Tim Shelley from Toronto, Canada writes: A number of posts have indicated GM and by analogy NA made cars have greatly improved quality. I have a different and very informed perspective. I spend approximately 200 nights a year on the road and on these trips rent cars for 3 - 4 days at a time and drive an average of 350 miles each time. These extended test drives reveal all three NA manufacturers are still making crap. I can cound on one hand the number of times lights did not come on and windows did not get stuck down. I have had trunk hoods crash on my head, radios that fizzled, CD players that jam and dozens of assorted rattles and squeaks. My regular stops know I will no longer drive an NA made car. Since using primarily Nissan and Toyota vehicles my trips are trouble free. Any one buying a NA made vehicle should their heads a shake - like troublesome union employees are doing anything but going through the motions right. Say what you will, spin as fast as you can I judge by results and NA made vehicles are still as bad as they can get without falling apart sitting there doing nothing.
  266. Maple Leaves from Canada writes: Honesty,

    Thanks for posting a different perspective. Quality may be important at Toyota but it seems from the experience of the employee you had provided employees are forgotten in the quest for efficiency and quality.

    Ufortunately, I think you'll find that to be the case in most companies in non-union environment. But I think in a non-union environment there are opportunities to distinguish oneself and really be able to make an impact.

    The good news is the employee who works at Toyota has a choice to go another company that will offer the balance they are looking for.
  267. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: This is what I'm saying about a one way flow, scarey to see how vulnerable we are

    Each country has its own one-way flow product.

    Saudi has Oil as one way flow products to a number of countries.

    Canada has Oil & Forestry as one way flow products to a number of countries.

    If we don't have one, we created one. Like RIM.

    We produced more D3 cars than sold in Canada and is a one-way flow into US. What will you suggest US?
  268. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: Just A Bystander from Canada writes: Edwin, oh yeah, must be due to those insane purchase incentives going on from the D3

    Actually, when D3 offered those 'employee discount' to customers, I told my friends that they are not far from bankruptcy.

    __________________________

    Edwin I'm shocked!

    You have friends?

    Who knew?
  269. S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best Policy....

    'this is good why?'........I am all for being self reliant.

    That ship has sailed. In the new global economy, it is better to have market forces determine where goods are manufactured. Then specific markets do what they do best. Unlike the old way of thinking 'We're GM...we make cars for North Americans.....' or in GMs case they decided they'd tell us what we wanted.( of course if the D3 had payed closer attention to their markets they may have avoided this mess).

    While I may not like the fact that we could be a totally self sufficient country, if it weren't for the free market. The sad fact is, is that it will not change where we are today. Until the cost of shipping becomes so astronomical that it is no longer viable to do business abroad...we will be using TVs from Korea, car parts from China, and foodstuffs from Mexico etc.
  270. IHATE UNIONS from Canada writes: $14.50 per hour for a new start unskilled auto worker out of high school is more than a fair wage. (KIA's wage in Georgia). The maxmum limit should be set at $20 per hour after 25 years of service with of course no pension in a non union shop.

    The new market reality of the auto industry. $14.50 per hour. Get use to it.
  271. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: I hope that for all those advocating to 'buy Canadian' to keep their promise when D3 moves their operations south of the border. I want to see each and everyone of you ditch your D3 vehicle and starting driving a Canadian built Honda/Toyota.
  272. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writesWe produced more D3 cars than sold in Canada and is a one-way flow into US. What will you suggest US
    -------------------------------------------------------
    There is protectionism going on with other countries including the US what I don't understand is why Canada doesn't as well. We're the ones who will lose out in the end.
  273. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: CallofDuty . from Canada writes: I don't think GM/Chrysler ever mastered JIT(Just-in-Time) inventory. Rather the opposite.
    ________________________________

    Once again you show your total ignorance of this industry.

    Thanks for your contribution. It is worth the paper it's not printed on.
  274. T R from Canada writes: Just a bystander. I am typing very slowly so you can understand....

    Let's talk subsidies. Any government worker, at any level, is in fact a subsidy. I say they all make too much. I support schools and healthcare althought I don't directly use them ---- I say they all make too much as I am subsidizing them. My taxes helped pay for a lot of the sporting facilities where kids play -- as I am subsidizing them then those contractors all made too much.

    Fine, don't bail them out and let them all suffer however don't start pretending that you are on some sort of a holier than thou, squeaky clean pedestal --- strip away some of the layers and you probably don't have to go very far until you find out how some subsidy lined your pocket. I am guessing EI or stress leave in your case.
  275. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'Obviously Edwin you did not understand my posts ....but after reading your's I'm not surprised that you could not understand. ' Obviously, you don't understand how buying locally to save our country is short-sighted.
  276. who cares about real people from Canada writes: Why cant everyone stay on topic about the dealers, these are thousands of people losing their jobs. Some of these owner will go bankrupt because they have legacy cost for previous employees. the G&M moderator should delete anything not on topic about the dealers, most of these comment are about union or antiunion
  277. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I believe the big 3 will move their manufacturing to the US, Mexico, Korea & China. Canada will be left out in the cold. So I guess my next vehicle will be a Toyota
  278. dave ross from Canada writes: Mr I Hate Unions, please come clean about the $1 million per month of my tax dollars that subsidize your business.

    Thanks.
  279. Just call me Nemo from Montreal, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'I completely agree, it has to be a 2way street. ' so since we run a $250 Million surplus with Japan (approx 5000 jobs) we need to import even more to make it a 2 way street.
  280. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: Globalization is over. The US, China, Europe...won't say they are stopping imports but they will find a dozen indirect reasons to keep imports out (they are already starting to do it - all countries are fighting to keep their people employed). The Canadian government will be forced to introduce tariffs to stop the Canadian market being flooded with imports if they want to keep any manufacturing jobs in Canada. The only thing the world will buy from us pretty soon is our raw resources and you can't expect a small pocket of Canadians to carry the rest of you. There just aren't enough Canadians working in the resource sector to carry southern Ontario, let alone the rest of Canada.

    If the vast majority of Canadians are going to be working at $10-$20/hr service sector jobs with minimum benefits or in the public sector, the few remaining high tax earners in the private sector will pack up and leave the country (doctors, engineers, Phds...). Might as well move to a US state with low taxes and top wages for professionals.

    The government will see their tax revenue evaporate, if it isn't already beginning to happen. They will have to move to keep jobs in Canada or watch a pretty sharp decline in our standard of living.
  281. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Honesty is the Best Policy....

    'this is good why?'........I am all for being self reliant.

    That ship has sailed. In the new global economy, it is better to have market forces determine where goods are manufactured. Then specific markets do what they do best. Unlike the old way of thinking 'We're GM...we make cars for North Americans.....' or in GMs case they decided they'd tell us what we wanted.( of course if the D3 had payed closer attention to their markets they may have avoided this mess).

    While I may not like the fact that we could be a totally self sufficient country, if it weren't for the free market. The sad fact is, is that it will not change where we are today. Until the cost of shipping becomes so astronomical that it is no longer viable to do business abroad...we will be using TVs from Korea, car parts from China, and foodstuffs from Mexico etc.
    ====================================

    You seem to deliberately not get my point.

    I am not saying we should have trade barriers.

    I am saying when possible use your purchasing power to support the people and companies that support Canada and Canadians.

    In the new global economy, it is better to have market forces determine...

    And how did the market do lately?

    It determined that the market and the new global economy are dysfunctional.
  282. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Just call me Nemo from Montreal, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'I completely agree, it has to be a 2way street. ' so since we run a $250 Million surplus with Japan (approx 5000 jobs) we need to import even more to make it a 2 way street
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    We also give great tax breaks & incentives for Japan to build here, which is fine. I just don't like the fact we are bailing out GM & Chrysler while our jobs are being taken overseas. Why is China & Mexico not being asked to bail them out
  283. Edwin Lee from Toronto, Canada writes: T R from Canada writes: 'Let's talk subsidies. Any government worker, at any level, is in fact a subsidy. '

    Another old finger pointing tactics.

    Government workers work for us.
    Autoworkers don't.
  284. Joe Had a lunch pail once from Windsore, Canada writes: Cubicle rats, posting on company time, are stealing and should be fired.

    If your an Edwin, you should be fired.
  285. Liam Munny from Quebec, Canada writes: More unemployed Canadians. A sad day for these folks to be sure.
  286. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Well said Child of the North!
  287. Just A Bystander from Canada writes: T R,

    - Civil servants exist to protect the interest of the public (Canadians).
    - D3 are American corporations.

    Please don't bind the two together, thanks.
  288. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: >>

    T R from Canada writes
    'T R from Canada writes: So someone makes $14.50 an hour in one plant and $50 in the other (it is not $76). Why does that automatically make $14.50 the 'right' number? Maybe the $14.50 are underpaid?

    A plumber in PEI makes $20 / hour and a plumber in Toronto makes $80 / hour.

    ----------------------------------

    Hey buddy,

    That plumber offers a service that people will pay for.

    GM?

    Are you being purposely obtuse? Are you Edwin's cousin? TR's point is that people, rather than arguing that wages should be lowered in the car industry, maybe should fight to have other industries raise their wages. I think he just used plumbers as an example and was not arguing what their pay scale should be.
  289. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: >>

    T R from Canada writes
    'T R from Canada writes: So someone makes $14.50 an hour in one plant and $50 in the other (it is not $76). Why does that automatically make $14.50 the 'right' number? Maybe the $14.50 are underpaid?

    A plumber in PEI makes $20 / hour and a plumber in Toronto makes $80 / hour.

    ----------------------------------

    Hey buddy,

    That plumber offers a service that people will pay for.

    GM?
  290. A Postma from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada stated:
    They will have to move to keep jobs in Canada or watch a pretty sharp decline in our standard of living.

    Wouldn't that be fair after the way North America and Europe has taken advantage of everyone else over 100's of years? Wouldn't a slight decline in standard of living be what's coming to us? Wouldn't that be justice playing itself out in a way? Wouldn't that be part of the balancing act of raising third world standard of living while ours decends slightly? So what if we can't buy every new thing as soon as it comes out. . .
  291. who cares about real people from Canada writes: 245 GM Canada dealers get the axe
    Auto maker sends out letters telling them their fate; thousands of jobs stand to be lost

    This is the Head line for the article, Did anyone read it.
    What does any of this CRAP have to do with dealers being FORCED to lose their dealership
  292. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Why is China & Mexico not being asked to bail them out '

    It is only our government doing this stupid thing to bailout foreign auto companies, especially that these auto companies will eventually move manufacturing elsewhere.
  293. Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada

    Why is China & Mexico not being asked to bail them out ?

    -----------------------------------------

    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.
    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.
    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.

    China has loaned USA $trillions of dollars to finance their debt. What part of this do you not understand?
  294. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: A Postma: We are not talking about a slight drop in the standard of living - we are talking about a major drop. I think many Canadians have experienced a slight drop in their standard of living over the last decade as their plants up and moved to Mexico or China and they had to find jobs at a much lower pay scale with no benefits. There are many Gen Xers and Gen Ys that have never worked anything but contract jobs. Ask anyone over 50 how much harder it is for their kids to get a job today compared to when they came out of highschool.
  295. Don Micheals from Canada writes: Time to re-think concessions and bail-outs to GM by Canadian Govts and Uninions. The following is an excerpt from an Associated Press article of May 18, 2009 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “The UAW strongly objects to GM's plan to close 16 manufacturing facilities in the United States, while at the same time dramatically increasing the number of vehicles it will be importing from Mexico, Korea, Japan and China for sale in this country,” the e-mail said. It said GM wants to nearly double the number of imports from those countries, costing 21,000 UAW jobs in the U.S. GM acknowledged in documents submitted to Congress that it plans to start importing small cars from China starting in 2011, with the number rising to more than 51,000 by 2014. But the company says the percentage of cars made and sold in the U.S. will remain stable, with fewer imports likely from Canada. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The last sentence is very telling: ' (GM) says the percentage of cars made and sold in the U.S. will remain stable, with fewer imports likely from Canada.' So much for GM's and Obama's assurances that Canada will continue to retain 20% of the N. American market! It is pretty obvious that Gm plans to take anada`s bail-out money and (Bail-Out) of Canada. Time for the CAW and FederalProv. to cut their losses and keep their stimulus money to attract other automotive manufacturing opportunities from other companies.
  296. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: 'Ask anyone over 50 how much harder it is for their kids to get a job today compared to when they came out of highschool. ' Just common sense. More population means higher competition.
  297. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Jeff Wong from North York, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada

    Why is China & Mexico not being asked to bail them out ?

    -----------------------------------------

    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.
    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.
    The money Obama's giving to GM was borrowed from China to begin with.

    China has loaned USA $trillions of dollars to finance their debt. What part of this do you not understand?
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Well then according to you US may as well ship all of their manufacturing to China. Just goes to confirm why we should not be bailing out GM & Chrysler. I'd rather have the money invvested into starting a CANADIAN auto company
  298. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: Edwin: You don't know anything about common sense. Your comment proves it.
  299. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Why is China & Mexico not being asked to bail them out '

    It is only our government doing this stupid thing to bailout foreign auto companies...
    ____________________________________

    Now Edwin... why are you lying?
  300. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada - your statement that we will experience a major drop in standard of living is based on what??; many recent studies put the impact on Canadian GDP at ~2.9%, or about what if forecast for all of 2009; not like it was 25 yrs ago.
  301. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: 'Ask anyone over 50 how much harder it is for their kids to get a job today compared to when they came out of highschool. ' Just common sense. More population means higher competition.
    ___________________________________________

    Gee Edwin you really think that's the cause?
  302. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Bill Darling from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada - your statement that we will experience a major drop in standard of living is based on what??; many recent studies put the impact on Canadian GDP at ~2.9%, or about what if forecast for all of 2009; not like it was 25 yrs ago.
    _______________________________________________

    Last week you said 2%.

    Do you just pull numbers out of the air?

    Or would you like to acknowledge that the shutdown of the auto sector, on top of what we have already suffered in lumber and the shutdown of the resource sector, would cripple Canada permanently?
  303. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: 'Ask anyone over 50 how much harder it is for their kids to get a job today compared to when they came out of highschool. ' Just common sense. More population means higher competition.
    ------------------------------------
    So I suppose less postions in that sector has nothing to do with it as well, just the population? Don't think so
  304. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - nice try; the 2% number that I previously quoted was the ratio of workers in the auto industry to all working Canadians; and yes there is a slowdown in the resource sector which reduced the GDP by what so far??; if you can quote a reliable source that has different numbers for the auto industry impact on the Canadian standard of living, please let's see them.
  305. Michele K from Canada writes: 'As for D3 being American-owned corporations, yes they are. But if I'm not mistaken, Ford Canada, GM Canada, & Chrysler Canada are wholly independent subsidiaries of the parent corporation. And any profits that accrue here are profits made by the subsidiaries, and show up on CRA accounts, not American IRS.'

    You are certainly mistaken there, John Perry, but I am guessing that is your pro-Chrysler bias showing - Canada Revenue filed that massive taxes-owing claim against Chrysler specifically because Chrysler said that while it is definitely owing, they apaid it to the US government instead.

    By the way - Jimmy should find a way of not demeaning posters with whom he disagrees with racist innuendo, because I've already alerted the forum moderator to this unsavoury tendency of 'Jimmy's'.
  306. Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: Some happy reading for Bill Darling about the sputtering engine of Canada - Ontario.

    http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1410203
  307. Jeff Michaels from Toronto, Canada writes: This was long overdue. There were far too many dealerships.
  308. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: We should try to buy as much 'made in Canada' as we can. This bail out should be going to start a CANADIAN auto company. Just my opinion
  309. L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:

    And why should GM tell you? If you were involved you would know by now.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Honestly Honesty, when my government is willing to give billions of our tax money to GM, we are involved. I am involved.

    Good bye.

    - = 00.013
  310. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Michele K from Canada writesBy the way - Jimmy should find a way of not demeaning posters with whom he disagrees with racist innuendo, because I've already alerted the forum moderator to this unsavoury tendency of 'Jimmy's'.
    -------------------------------------------------
    You need to read all the posts, I didn't find Jimmy's response offensive but then again I guess it's all about perception. Seriously, I'm sure if Edwin found it to be derogatory he would have reported it, too many ppl so quick to REPORT bcs of difference of opinion. The word racist has been bandied so many times on these forums that it diminishes true cases of it.
  311. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - nice try; the 2% number that I previously quoted was the ratio of workers in the auto industry to all working Canadians; and yes there is a slowdown in the resource sector which reduced the GDP by what so far??; if you can quote a reliable source that has different numbers for the auto industry impact on the Canadian standard of living, please let's see them.
    ___________________________________________________

    http://www.c4se.com/

    In their DETROIT THREE ECONOMIC IMPACT

    As I've told you before.

    They say the shutdown of the big three or half of them will have a permanent negative impact on Canada.
  312. Michele K from Canada writes: But you share John Perry's opinion of Edwin Lee as I recall, Anonymous, and have taken your own shots at him, so let me suggest to you that you lack the neutrality necessary to properly evaluate his posts (and yes, I have read this whole thread prior to offering anything of my own).

    Let's just leave it to the moderators.
  313. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: Joe Had a lunch pail once from Windsore, Canada writes: Cubicle rats, posting on company time, are stealing and should be fired.
    If your an Edwin, you should be fired.

    Good point..............he has been at it all day.
    I just scrolled down from where I left off at 1 pm, and
    there has to be dozens of posts by Edwin......

    Edwin, get it into your simple head.
    Globalization is dead. The big 3 will slim down, get some very needed protection from unfair foreign competition, and they will
    do well.

    Add to the mix the upcoming eco tax/duties in the US, where all imports will be judged by their environmental footprint,
    and the far east will experience an export drop in the
    trillions of $$$$$$

    Lets make it at home. We can do it, we have the technology,
    a well educated work force, solid programs as health care and education..............and we have the $$$$$$$$

    Lets bring it back home and let Canadians prosper.

    .>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  314. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: ..Good bye. __________________________ We won't miss you Bye
  315. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: We should try to buy as much 'made in Canada' as we can. This bail out should be going to start a CANADIAN auto company. Just my opinion

    There is a 'small' possibility of Magna buying Saturn.

    They actually make good cars, the Sky is a 'killer'.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  316. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: 'i hate unions' states that his neighbours honda has 450 K! Ya! So what!! My brothers chev lumina has 400K and he has never changed the tranny fluid!!!My retired neighbour across the street has an 2000 cadillac with the northstar engine. He has 280K on it and is still very happy with it. So whats your point????That comment has nothing to do with the story.
  317. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: We should try to buy as much 'made in Canada' as we can. This bail out should be going to start a CANADIAN auto company. Just my opinion

    There is a 'small' possibility of Magna buying Saturn.

    They actually make good cars, the Sky is a 'killer'.
    ---------------------------------------
    Nothing better then hope. I would buy it. I am sold if it does become true
  318. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Michele K from Canada writes: But you share John Perry's opinion of Edwin Lee as I recall, Anonymous, and have taken your own shots at him, so let me suggest to you that you lack the neutrality necessary to properly evaluate his posts (and yes, I have read this whole thread prior to offering anything of my own).

    Let's just leave it to the moderators
    --------------------------------------
    I don't remember taking potshots at Edwin. I was disagreeing with him on certain comments but there was never any derogatory statements against him. Plz read my posts, disagreement does not mean racism. Once again too much of the political correctness koolaid if one has to conform to others opinion. Whatever happened to democracy & when has it been considered vile. Edward have I ever been demeaning towards you? Plz let Michele K know that is not the case as she can't be bothered to read all the posts b4 making a judgement
  319. Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: 'i hate unions' states that his neighbours honda has 450 K! Ya! So what!! My brothers chev lumina has 400K and he has never changed the tranny fluid!

    Not to get too exited.............just look where it comes from...
    a person who calls himself 'I hate unions'

    A very credible 'individual' indeed.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  320. John Johnson from Canada writes: I think that everyone is missing the point that our government will not let any auto manufacturer sell any significant number of their cars in Canada unless those same auto manufacturers produce a minimum number of cars in Canada. Worse case scenario, the U.S. may try to increase protectionism from their end but they will not be able to sell any cars here except for those assembled here in Canada.
  321. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: oops lol should be EDWIN plz let Michelle know I have never made any derogatory comments against you, disagrreing does not mean RACISM or taking pot shots
  322. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Right you are Canada 1!! His comments are meaningless to me.Just regurgiated stories.
  323. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: John Johnson from Canada writes: I think that everyone is missing the point that our government will not let any auto manufacturer sell any significant number of their cars in Canada unless those same auto manufacturers produce a minimum number of cars in Canada. Worse case scenario, the U.S. may try to increase protectionism from their end but they will not be able to sell any cars here except for those assembled here in Canada.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    I hope so, I believe in FAIR trade not just free trade
  324. John Perry from Canada writes: Yo,Ron Oatman from dystopia, John Perry does have a life you know, it's called spending time with my family having DINNER!

    Ah....this is the life, great food, great weather, good pay to stay home ( thanks to you people who insist on buying imports...wanna see John Perry back at work, buy Chryslers! ).
  325. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: U.S. protectionism expanding: Clement9
    Industry Minister says Buy American provisions ‘seem to be expanding in scope, and they're cascading down the system'
    --------------------------------------------
    Yep every country is hugging protectionism, this is on G&M
  326. Comments closed, censored, hidden, deleted, disappeared from Peso-onie land, Canada writes: '... thousands of jobs stand to be lost...' --- Party is over, folks. We've already contributed enough. --- You filled your pockets many times over during all those years, laughing all the way to the bank. Now you spend some of your savings and find something else to do, preferably something in line with sustainable growth....
  327. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin Lee, I'm far from being a racist, I love everyone who respects me. You would be surprised at how well I get along with everyone.

    When I write what I do, it is from first-hand experience.

    For example, what's so wrong writing about a fellow worker and his wife, who are Asians, yet insist on driving Hondas?? And you wanna hear something else, their son, who is a TPT ( basically a kid in post-secondary, who fills in on Fridays, Mondays, & Saturdays) drives a Subaru.

    Yet these people insist on patronizing the competition! We have a dependent scholarship program ( yup, one of our benefits that has survived) that pays out $1500 per year per student in post-secondary education to help fund his school expenses. This kid in question was able to benefit ( and is benefitting) from it, while making money in our plant, but the whole family nonetheless drive imports!!

    Is that wrong or racist to bring that up?

    If you, Edwin Lee, were working for Microsoft right now, and you show up for work with a Mac, wouldn't your boss and fellow workers be within their rights to question your loyalty, without dragging racism into it??

    Wake up, we are who we are, people make choices everyday. Whether they're rational choices is up to others to decide. I know that John Perry doesn't bite the hand that has fed him and his family for 25 years, and helped his children out with university money. Asian solidarity may be okay over there, but on these shores, we should take care of our own.

    If you're Asian here, have citizenship, no problem, provided you invest and promote this hemisphere.

    John Perry would expect no less from anyone, Asian or European.
  328. Common Sense Fan from Blue, Canada writes: Shutting down local dealerships does not make sense to me. I live in a small community, if they close down the local GM dealership, and I want to buy a car, am I going to drive 75km to the nearest GM dealership, which would mean passing by Honda, Toyota, Ford, in my town?

    And about the arguement not to buy foreign, tell that to my neighbour that works at a Toyota factory.

    PS, I own a Pontiac, which I bought locally.
  329. jens gessner from Canada writes: Photo Radar - you wrote: 'Sorry but I already supported CAW with my fricken taxes...no more money for you guys....get lost CAW.'

    Do you really understand what is going on here? CAW is not being supported. No union jobs are being secured with the Billions that Canadian taxpayers shell out. - Quite the contrary: Restructuring efforts will definitely include plant closures, dealership closures and job losses, in addition to significant union wage concessions.

    GM is going bankrupt with or without bailouts. The loans are unsecured, because GM had to use their assets for earlier bridge loans. Taxpayers are on the hook.

    Chrysler's case is even worse: An industry advisor declared publicly some time ago there was little chance that recent loans to Chrysler would be repayed. And Chrysler's management openly blackmailed the government when they stated that they would pull their business out of Canada if the government insisted on Chrysler paying the taxes they owed.

    Think: Who are we REALLY supporting with our government's generosity?
  330. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Common Sense Fan from Blue, Canada writes: Shutting down local dealerships does not make sense to me. I live in a small community, if they close down the local GM dealership, and I want to buy a car, am I going to drive 75km to the nearest GM dealership, which would mean passing by Honda, Toyota, Ford, in my town?

    And about the arguement not to buy foreign, tell that to my neighbour that works at a Toyota factory.

    PS, I own a Pontiac, which I bought locally
    -------------------------------------------------
    I have no problems with buying Toyota, they have factories here thereby employing Canadians & I have heard they have more parts canadian made than the others. Now on the other hand if we had a canadian car company with more parts of it being 'made in Canada' then I'd buy theirs. Whatever helps out our companies the most is what I will stand by
  331. Jimmee's Place from Canada writes: Richard Head from Dildo, NFLD, Canada writes: Why does the G&M continue to shut down the blogs related to the current GM / CAW negotiations? Is the Big Bad Union getting their feeling hurt?? Then again, perhaps given the overwhelming number of comments that are opposed to any tax payer involvement with this predictable disaster is not what the other stakeholders with to hear. NOT MY PROBLEM!! GET YOUR GRUBBY MITTS OFF OF MY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS!!

    ------------------------------------------

    Heh Dildo, it seems to me that the heavy concentration of auto manufacturers in Ontario with union and auto-corporate taxes paid to our federal government helped support Newfoundland for sometime.
  332. Ken from calgary from Canada writes: John Perry said 'If you were working for Microsoft right now, and you show up for work with a Mac, wouldn't your boss and fellow workers be within their rights to question your loyalty'

    Actually the ad copy for microsoft is developed by people using Macs. To do anything less would be a disservice to the company buying the ad services. Why would you use an inferior system, would you want the best and most efficency service that you could get??

    But John Perry should understand that Microsoft is a software company and Apple is a primary a hardware company that has their own operating system. So he comparing apples and oranges.

    When he compares GM to Toyota, he is comparing Lemons to Passion Fruit

    Hope the ex-GM dealerships will be able to replace their production with other cars. Hyundai and Tata may be able to replace the GM products. There are also at least ten China based car manufacturers that would be eager for a foothold. Competition is good, it improves the breed.

    Good Luck to those dealerships, we need to replace those jobs.
  333. John Perry from Canada writes: Update from my insider source at Brampton Assembly: due to the high demand for high-quality products like the Chrysler 300 & Challenger, there is now a 95% probability that the summer shutdown will be deferred to September. Every Saturday in July/August has been set aside for two-shift operations.

    That is a real surprise to John Perry. I thought this whole bankruptcy protection thing was supposed to hurt our sales. I'm real proud of our compatriots here in North America who have bucked the trend and resisted the temptation to buy imports, they are to be applauded!

    I have a neighbour who was going back and forth as to whether or not to get the Challenger, Mustang or Camaro ; of course, when he found out his neighbour John Perry could get him a sweeter deal simply because he's my friend, he jumped at the opportunity.

    Good choice -----

    As for the rest of you, try one of our outstanding vehicles. They are home-produced by your neighbours, so you can be assured any monies you pay stay in the community. Did I mention our state-of-the-art factory is the SOLE producer of the Challenger and 300, plus Charger, in the whole world?

    One regret though is that the Asian countries seem resistant to our please for fairer trade.

    Oh well, John Perry speaks for a lot of satisfied customers when he says, our gain, YOUR LOSS JAPAN & CHINA & KOREA.
  334. Harbinger from Out West from Canada writes: Just as an aside, seeing as how GM has about $ 7 BILLION dollars in unfunded pension liabilities and Chrysler has about $10 BILLION in unfunded pension liabilities, what happens to the 'pensions' (if any) from the employees of all these dealerships that are about to close? Oh? We will worry about that later? OK. Works for me.
  335. Ken from calgary from Canada writes: Challenger, Mustang or Camaro are icon marquees that represent everything that is WRONG with the D3.

    They are as suitable for today as the the Model T is.

    They were amazing car for the 1960s, but that's fifty years ago. Ford would bring back the Model T, most of those former buyers are dead. The former owners of Challenger, Mustang or Camaro will buy these dinosaurs as a reminder of thier lost youth and that is be it.

    The future is for those will embrace change and act boldly.
  336. John Perry from Canada writes: John Perry will be leaving for a few hours, must attend a local community event that he volunteered for. I will be back of course in a few hours, but unfortunately for the lot of you, you will more than likely be treated to the likes of Edwin Lee, I HATE UNIONS, Jimmee's Place from Canada, et al...

    Yo Edwin, time for you to come out and play. It's such a beautiful day.
  337. John Perry from Canada writes: Yo Harbinger from Out West from Canada, you are misrepresenting Chrysler's true pension liabilities

    John Perry knows for sure our plan is funded at 91%, way better than F(ound) O(n)
    R(oad) D(ead) at 78%, and G(olly) M(e) at 57%.

    I have no need to worry about such a trivial thing, as John Perry made sure to wean himself from total dependence on Chrysler years ago. I won't re-hash what I have done, been stated too many times before.

    Later people.....I'll be back to correct any more inaccuracies. Till then, John Perry says see 'ya !
  338. james c from Canada writes: I had to scroll all the way down to 2:52pm to see the first mention of 'Harper.' Either the troll losers have been asleep all day, or the posters on this forum (many of them at least) are starting to talk some sense.
  339. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'If you, Edwin Lee, were working for Microsoft right now, and you show up for work with a Mac, wouldn't your boss and fellow workers be within their rights to question your loyalty, without dragging racism into it??

    Wrong.

    It's not within their rights to question the choice of computers an employee is using. It is politically embarassed but not related to loyalty. Everyone has their own choice of products they like in their personal life.

    I do not expect employees working in Sony should avoid ipod.

    Your relation to loyalty in this regard is kind of 'old fashioned'.

    It's you that shouted Asia for Asian that drag you into this racism, not me.
  340. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - agreed there would be a permanent effect, but it would be a lot less today than 25 yrs ago; if all three of D3 stopped production in NA, impact in 1st year on GDP is -2.9%; but it is probably safe to say 1 of 3 will survive, and based on market share, the impact is reduced to 35%; this is highly unlikely; also, when Ford comes through this, they will see increased sales just out of patriotism, especially in the US; yes, some areas will be hard hit, but we've been there before and survived; what was the forecast this year for the Cdn GDP?; something along the lines of all D3 failing - down 2.5 - 3%;
  341. Jello fuel from East City, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Update from my insider source at Brampton Assembly: due to the high demand for high-quality products like the Chrysler 300 & Challenger, there is now a 95% probability that the summer shutdown will be deferred to September. Every Saturday in July/August has been set aside for two-shift operations.

    I have a friend in Alliston who works at the Honda plant, making the doors for 5 different vehicles. Maybe I should support him?
  342. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Child of the North in Canada from Canada writes: 'Ask anyone over 50 how much harder it is for their kids to get a job today compared to when they came out of highschool. ' Just common sense. More population means higher competition.
    ------------------------------------
    'So I suppose less postions in that sector has nothing to do with it as well, just the population? Don't think so '

    She did not refer to a particular sector. I did not respond to a particular sector.

    Generally, more population mean more competition on jobs and high school graduates harder to find the same job 50 years ago.

    Only autoworkers living in the old days cannot accept the reality and insisted on getting decent wages right out of highschool.
  343. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Canada 1 from Montreal, Canada writes: 'Add to the mix the upcoming eco tax/duties in the US, where all imports will be judged by their environmental footprint, and the far east will experience an export drop in the trillions of $$$$$$'

    According to autoworkers logic of bailout, taxpayers have to bailout autoworkers so that we don't go down with them.

    US has to keep importing from China or otherwise China will not buy cars from US. US cannot afford to lose the China market....

    Sound familar...
  344. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes:..US has to keep importing from China or otherwise China will not buy cars from US. US cannot afford to lose the China market....
    __________________________

    ?

    How many cars does North America send to China?

    Edwin ....even for you this is nonsensical.
  345. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - not all of my response to you @ 8:11 was posted; missing parts, starting @ .......the impact is reduced to 35%; this is highly unlikely;..........; sorry for any inconvenience;
  346. Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes:
    Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - agreed there would be a permanent effect..

    ________________________________________

    This is why the governments all over the world are trying to save their auto industry through the 'credit crunch'

    The very nature of auto manufacturing and assembly has huge spin off impacts in the countries where it takes place. To continually try to diminish the importance of this industry, as you do, does no one a service.

    Canada, the US, Brazil, Germany, Japan, Belgium and many many nations around the world rely on the auto industry for prosperity.

    Good night.
  347. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - there are very good reasons why NA vehicles don't sell well in SE Asia and China; the cost of fuel is 4 - 5 times, if not more, the cost of fuel in NA; the road infrastructure cannot support the size of vehicles made in NA; the size of houses, garages, overpasses, etc make a large car impractical; for them, a LARGE car is a Toyota Corolla; so unless the D3 can manufacture a subcompact, ship to SE Asia, and sell at a competitive price, they don't hhave a prayer of gaining market share or making a profit from exports to SE Asia; especially when the labour cost for a small D3 car
    is alomost the same as that for a Cadillac; note GM's plan to import the small vehicles to the US
  348. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Now on the other hand if we had a canadian car company with more parts of it being 'made in Canada' then I'd buy theirs'

    It sounds good in theory to support Canada economy by buying Canadian.

    In reality, Canada do not have enough population and wealth to buy everything it produced. It needs export.

    Therefore, closing the border will hurt Canada more than China.

    In Cuba, everyone can only buy local.
  349. Bill Darling from Canada writes: to moderator - please post all of my response to Hoensty is the best policy; what you have posted doesn't make sense and modifies the intent of the discussion
  350. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin no one is suggesting closing the border, just a little more balance & fairness
  351. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin is a pure out and out apologist for the Asian transplants, and anything that comes out of China, Korea & Japan. He has nothing good to say about the D3, except for maybe F(ix) O(r) R(epair) D(aily), and then only because they haven't accepted bailout money.

    Hey Edwin, why don't you talk about working conditions in China as compared to here, especially in union-led factories? Why don't you talk about the slave wages Chinese/Korean workers make, thereby undercutting us here?

    Why don't you talk about the unfair trade inbalance between Canada & Korea, where trade is basically one-way, because of peer and social pressure exerted between people there. I can believe those kind of people spitting on foreign cars. Do that here, you might go to jail !

    Edwin, your DNA has been hard-wired to reject most things manufactured in North America. But you know what really gets John Perry the most - where do most of these people ultimately want to live and work ? Yup, here in North America.

    I guess they need to purchase Asian imports to give them some sense of a material connection to the Asian continent.
  352. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'How many cars does North America send to China?'

    China: 1 billion population
    Canada: 34 million population

    One poster earlier stated China has more middle class than Canada.

    D3 will build cars in China
  353. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - pray tell in some definitive terms, not just what has been construed to be true, what the impact of the failure of the D3; even the C4SE report you cited puts the worst case impact
    at neg 2.9%; we have had the GDP growth exceed that number in one year numerous times since the early 1990s
  354. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: She did not refer to a particular sector. I did not respond to a particular sector.

    Generally, more population mean more competition on jobs and high school graduates harder to find the same job 50 years ago.

    Only autoworkers living in the old days cannot accept the reality and insisted on getting decent wages right out of highschool
    --------------------------------------------
    Edwin Canada doesn't have much manufacturing jobs left. So aside from our natural resources/farming & going into a technological field, public service there is not much left aside from minimum wage jobs. This is my concern, that blue collar workers will no longer exist
  355. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'How many cars does North America send to China?'

    China: 1 billion population
    Canada: 34 million population

    One poster earlier stated China has more middle class than Canada.

    D3 will build cars in China
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Exactly! So what benefit is this to us Canadians
  356. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'This is why the governments all over the world are trying to save their auto industry through the 'credit crunch''

    You are lying about swedan.

    'The very nature of auto manufacturing and assembly has huge spin off impacts in the countries where it takes place.'

    Ford is here to stay. Even stronger without government bailout of its major competitors.

    'Canada, the US, Brazil, Germany, Japan, Belgium and many many nations around the world rely on the auto industry for prosperity.'

    Did Canada really prosper during good time of D3?
  357. John Perry from Canada writes: Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - there are very good reasons why NA vehicles don't sell well in SE Asia and China; the cost of fuel is 4 - 5 times, if not more, the cost of fuel in NA; the road infrastructure cannot support the size of vehicles made in NA; the size of houses, garages, overpasses, etc make a large car impractical; for them, a LARGE car is a Toyota Corolla; so unless the D3 can manufacture a subcompact, ship to SE Asia, and sell at a competitive price, they don't hhave a prayer of gaining market share or making a profit from exports to SE Asia; especially when the labour cost for a small D3 car
    is alomost the same as that for a Cadillac; note GM's plan to import the small vehicles to the US ....

    Bill, I would argue that if the D3 built factories in China and Japan and Korea, the people there would still shun our vehicles, even if they met all of your expectations and dimensions!! People don't get it, the Asians have this very strong attachment to their 'own', peer pressure works tremendously well in these countries, because they are so racially homogenous.

    Think about why the Asian transplants here have been successful to a large degree. I would argue the fact we are such a diverse and multi-variated population, that no one social or racial group can hold sway over the vast majority in any endeavour, be it autos, appliances, high tech.....

    Do you honestly think I can shame my neighbour into buying a domestic vehicle built by one of the D3, even though they know I work for Chrysler? Not on your life - in fact the opposite occurs. Two neighbours of mine always bought GM's and Chryslers, up until they found out I was a member of the CAW. You wouldn;t believe the stuff they say about autoworkers, even knowing that I'm one. I just get even by thanking them for buying imports, which allows John Perry to stay home !!
  358. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: John Perry very well put in your last post
  359. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Canada doesn't have much manufacturing jobs left. So aside from our natural resources/farming & going into a technological field, public service there is not much left aside from minimum wage jobs. This is my concern, that blue collar workers will no longer exist '

    Checkout Switzerland.
    Checkout Research In Motion.
    When we cannot compete in one area, we move to another area.
  360. Bill Darling from Canada writes: John Perry - and what is the number one selling vehicle in China today???; the Buick; so if they are building it, they will buy it; that is probably where Buick will be based in a few years; not enough sale in NA
  361. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin I do understand, you're saying let the market speak for itself & no bail out. I agree with you on the no bail out but sitting back & losing our manufacturing sectors to other countries that have cheap labour & incentives not to buy foreign ie Canadian doesn't make sense either. There has to be some sort of balance in other words 'a light at the end of the tunnel' All I want is a better future for my kids & fellow canadians
  362. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Honesty is the best Policy from Canada writes: 'How many cars does North America send to China?'

    China: 1 billion population
    Canada: 34 million population

    One poster earlier stated China has more middle class than Canada.

    D3 will build cars in China
    --------------------------------------------------------
    'Exactly! So what benefit is this to us Canadians '

    Canada not in a strong position to put tariffs on China imports. Canada needs China market more than China needs Canada.
  363. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: So Edwin this is what Honesty wrote How many cars does North America send to China?

    Edwin ....even for you this is nonsensical
    -------------------------------------
    You never did answer
  364. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'Canada doesn't have much manufacturing jobs left. So aside from our natural resources/farming & going into a technological field, public service there is not much left aside from minimum wage jobs. This is my concern, that blue collar workers will no longer exist '

    Checkout Switzerland.
    Checkout Research In Motion.
    When we cannot compete in one area, we move to another area.

    Yo Edwin, your thought processes really are a piece of work. First off, what's the population of Switzerland versus us? I would argue it would be a hell of a lot easier to transition any displaced workers in whatever affected industry in Switzerland to something else, just be sheer numbers.

    Second, RIM? How many people do they employ? How many Blackberry producers will we be able to support ? Any feeder and supplier industries from Blackberry production like the D3 out there?

    Edwin, you have to re-think your arguments before committing them to computer screen. Dealing with the likes of you is like putty. John Perry can't believe what he has to argue with !
  365. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Canada not in a strong position to put tariffs on China imports. Canada needs China market more than China needs Canada
    --------------------------------------------------------
    No the market(our jobs) seems to be going to China. As well as our auto sector. This doesn't benefit Canadians at all.
  366. Jeff Hennessy from Canada writes: I'm sorry but my first car was a Saturn which had numerous engine problems. The last straw was paying over $800 to replace the wiper motor at which point I said enough is enough and promised myself I would never, ever purchase another GM vehicle. I have since been very satisfied with my Mitsubishi.

    GM has lost customers by not paying attention to quality and purely producing the same crap across multiple legacy product lines that have not made business sense in over a decade.

    If GM is to survive they need to make the painful steps they are taking. Yes they will be hard and are going to cost jobs for honest hard working people but in the end if they make a good product I will be back.

    Until then I'll enjoy my well built foreign car.
  367. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I agree with you on the no bail out but sitting back & losing our manufacturing sectors to other countries that have cheap labour & incentives not to buy foreign ie Canadian doesn't make sense either

    D2 did not represent our manufacturing sector.

    When we cannot compete in manufacturing cars, try something new.

    If you suggest we buy blackberry over Nokia, I tend to agree. D2 is no difference to other Japanese makers to me.

    Actually, I was one of the first few posters suggested we should stop the bailout but sponsor other business to create our own canadian auto company here.
  368. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin, John Perry is comforted by the fact all empires eventually fail. And believe it, your beloved Hondas/Toyotas will eventually feel the wrath of the consumer.

    Tell me this Edwin: Toyota has had a plant in Cambridge since 1987. Their first retirees are due to come out around 7-9 years. What do you think the odds are that none of the retirement-eligible people toiling away in there will walk away with a decent pension? Is that right ? Is it socially responsible of Toyota to give their workers in Japan lifetime benefits, but deny them here to North American workers?

    You know, the hypocrisy of the Asian transplants knows no bounds. And they count on a gullible and captive population here in North America to dance to their tune.

    As for the Buicks being hot-sellers in China, pray tell Bill, where do you think the profits are residing at the moment? And another thing: aren't Buicks kind of large cars that somehow shouldn't fit in too well on Asian roads ? What kind of dimensions do they have as compared to Buicks built here?

    People, I'll tell you why the Asians have us by the short hairs - they have bought too much of the US Treasury debt, because we refuse to save our own money properly, and also because we have refused to support and nurture home-grown industries.

    GLOBALIZATION SUCKS ! It only helps low-wage, non-standard, human-rights abusing countries, including South Korea.
  369. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'I would argue it would be a hell of a lot easier to transition any displaced workers in whatever affected industry in Switzerland to something else, just be sheer numbers.'

    Switzerland is an example of what a country can do without auto industry but stilla rich country.

    'Second, RIM? How many people do they employ? How many Blackberry producers will we be able to support ? Any feeder and supplier industries from Blackberry production like the D3 out there?'

    RIM is another example of how we can create something else to manufacture when existing products failed to compete.
    BTW, RIM employed more than 8,000 canadians.

    Don't even try to say about feeder & suppliers that will be gone without D3. Ford is still here.

    The world is larger than you think and lot more things we can do if we have innovation.
  370. Bill Darling from Canada writes: Honesty is the best policy - the current credit crunch only made it impossible for two of the D3 to hide their financial malaise; GM has lost more than $80 B in the last 5 yrs; other than the D3, or companies owned by them, the non-D3 manufacturers are only experiencing a cash flow problem, unlike GM & Chrsyler which have a solvency problem ie bankruptcy; the probability of repayment of any short term financing by the non-D3 is 100 x higher than for GM & Chrysler; check out their credit ratings/stock prices
  371. John Perry from Canada writes: Edwin writes:

    ' Actually, I was one of the first few posters suggested we should stop the bailout but sponsor other business to create our own canadian auto company here.'

    I take it this 'Canadian' auto company would be non-union, import parts from Asia, pay sub-standard wages, ignore health and safety regulations, not care about their workers retirements, and insist on 'Canadian' only vehicles in their parking lots!!

    Yo Edwin, what constitutes 'Canadian' in your neck of the woods?
  372. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writesActually, I was one of the first few posters suggested we should stop the bailout but sponsor other business to create our own canadian auto company here
    --------------------------------
    This is a point I agree with. However as you stated earlier there is none & unless MAGNA goes forth with their plans with Saturn as another poster had mentioned(fingers crossed). I would say with the bail out that will be going to GM & Chrysler I would expect our govt to have assurances legally that a certain portion of our jobs will be kept in Canada & not sent overseas. This is my bone of contention.
  373. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: No the market(our jobs) seems to be going to China. As well as our auto sector. This doesn't benefit Canadians at all.

    Canada just don't have bargaining power with China, not even US. Closing the border just made things worst. You think other country will suffer if we stop buying from them?
  374. John Perry from Canada writes: Hey everyone, John Perry will let you deal with the likes of Edwin for a while, got more important things to do. Will be back later though.
  375. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: No the market(our jobs) seems to be going to China. As well as our auto sector. This doesn't benefit Canadians at all.

    Canada just don't have bargaining power with China, not even US. Closing the border just made things worst. You think other country will suffer if we stop buying from them?
    -----------------------------------
    Edwin once again I reiterate no one is saying close the borders. There doesn't have to be such extremes just a little more balance to even out the playing field
  376. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Bye John Perry! Later
  377. Keeping It Real from Canada writes: This explains alot...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FYDIYfKtQA
  378. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin to put it clear, it did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling when GM stated it would import 50 000 small cars from China by 2011 after Canada has agreed to the bail out. This is what concerns me. We give them the money & they send our jobs oversea. May as well just give it directly to China then.
  379. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: I take it this 'Canadian' auto company would be non-union, import parts from Asia, pay sub-standard wages, ignore health and safety regulations, not care about their workers retirements, and insist on 'Canadian' only vehicles in their parking lots!!

    Wrong again.
    I actually suggested to sponsor CAW to own a new canadian auto company. Let their skilled workers produced the 'excellent' vehicles they claimed, but without further government bailout.
  380. K D from Canada writes:
    Canada, the US, Brazil, Germany, Japan, Belgium and many many nations around the world rely on the auto industry for prosperity.

    ----------------------------

    Every industrialized country has manufacturing and an auto industry.

    It is vital that Canada have as much as possible.
  381. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I would expect our govt to have assurances legally that a certain portion of our jobs will be kept in Canada & not sent overseas

    Jobs kept manually by government cannot stay long. Only skilled labour, high technology, etc. can 'send' the jobs back.

    The current autoworkers situation is like a person insisted to make pizza dough for $100/hr when the rest of the world can make a pizza dough for $20/hr. We should not subsidize him to continue earning $100/hr to make pizza dough. He needs to learn to make something else and we can provide the tools for him to learn that skill.
  382. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin once again I reiterate no one is saying close the borders. There doesn't have to be such extremes just a little more balance to even out the playing field

    Canada do not have enough bargaining chips to ask for level playing field.

    Our population and buying power not sufficient to force other country to play by our rule. Not sufficient to ask US, especially China, to play by our rule.

    What we can do is to upgrade and improve ourselves, similar to what RIM has done.
  383. Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin to put it clear, it did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling when GM stated it would import 50 000 small cars from China by 2011 after Canada has agreed to the bail out. This is what concerns me. We give them the money & they send our jobs oversea. May as well just give it directly to China then.

    They also send your jobs back to the US, you forgot to mention that!!! Afterall, what's the big deal, buy Toyotas and Hondas, they are made in Canada too! Unless you are anti-Chinese and anti-Japanese :-) which..... you sound very much so!
  384. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin we will agree to disagree. I'm not happy with the bail out but it is a done deal & I would rather see the money going to Canadian auto workers than other countries. Therefore our govt has to make sure they protect the interest of our workers
  385. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin to put it clear, it did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling when GM stated it would import 50 000 small cars from China by 2011 after Canada has agreed to the bail out. This is what concerns me. We give them the money & they send our jobs oversea. May as well just give it directly to China then.

    They also send your jobs back to the US, you forgot to mention that!!! Afterall, what's the big deal, buy Toyotas and Hondas, they are made in Canada too! Unless you are anti-Chinese and anti-Japanese :-) which..... you sound very much so!
    ---------------------------------
    Dom try reading my post. Sheesh you upset bcs I called you a troll earlier. Now you're saying I'm racist. LOL how ppl like to throw that word racist around. You're truly a troll. I have read your posts on different articles on the G&M today. Truth hurt?
  386. Indiglo Knight from Ottawa, Canada writes: In 2006 I was in desperate need of a new vehicle. I needed a 6 cylinder ( tow a trailer), an automatic ( Wife can't drive standard) and a sedan for the family. I searched high a low, Nissan Ultima, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Ford Fusion, VW Jetta and finally the Chevy Impala. All great cars. Price was a deciding factor, but not the only factor. After visiting each dealership and discussing the needs I required, the decision was easy. The Impala was $10,000 cheaper than any of the others in tat class. And one final bonus, when I open the door and read the tag, it says ' Made in Canada'. Great car, no complaints. A Canadian looking out for Canadians. ( And no, I don't shop at Walmart)
  387. Bill Darling from Canada writes: John Perry - the car of choice in China is the Buick Park Avenue; viewed as a status symbol among the affluent in larger cities where they have the infrastructure; less than 10% of Chinese own a vehicle of any sort because most Chinese live outside the metropolitan areas; here the infrastructure is almost non-existant so having any vehicle is a challenge; however, with the rapid expansion in the Chinese economy, this will be changing; right now GM has a leg up in terms of customer perceptions
    as to Toyota's retiree benefits, all health/vision/drug/dental/etc for retirees and family are fully paid for by Toyota; there are survivor benefits as well
  388. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I'm not happy with the bail out but it is a done deal & I would rather see the money going to Canadian auto workers than other countries. Therefore our govt has to make sure they protect the interest of our workers

    Not done yet. More bailout money needed in the coming years. At least 2.

    It takes much longer to keep all D3 running and recover because they are fighting for the same segment of loyal D3 buyers.

    I don't think our government can do anything if US decided to cut the % of production in Canada to 10% or even less.
  389. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes I don't think our government can do anything if US decided to cut the % of production in Canada to 10% or even less
    --------------------------------------------------
    I'll play the optimist & hope our govt can. Scarey time for Canadians(blue collar). Edwin while we may disagree on some points it was a pleasure to have a discussion without resorting to name calling etc.
  390. John Johnson from Canada writes: Edwin,

    How come
    I cannot get you to answer any questions?
    Keeping quiet is your strategy, yes
    I know.
    Keeping to your hard and fast logic (?) is illogical.
    Or are we missing something?
    May I suggest
    One thing?
    Read and appreciate what others post, even if a dissenting opinion.
    I certainly do!
  391. jens gessner from Canada writes: It's not that easy, Edwin.

    Perhaps the pizza baker in another part of the world ony needs $20/hr to live (let's stick with your hypothetical example), whereas pizza bakers here need $100/hr, because our costs of living are much higher.

    Globalization works well only for companies: The pizza joint gets a higher profit by baking pizzas in a cheap part of the world and selling them over here. But globalization frequently fails thedomestic workers, because it decreases their standard of living for the sake of a (sometimes foreign) company's profit.

    High-tech industries are not immune, either. There was a time when we thought that manufacturing computers was 'high-tech.'
  392. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: jens gessner from Canada writes: It's not that easy,

    Transformation is not easy in history of all countries.

    'But globalization frequently fails the domestic workers, because it decreases their standard of living for the sake of a (sometimes foreign) company's profit.'

    Everyone wants better product at a lower price, that pushed globalization. No single country can manufacture everything they need and satisfy all its citizens.

    'High-tech industries are not immune, either. There was a time when we thought that manufacturing computers was 'high-tech.' '

    That's why we have to keep changing and that's how human improves.
  393. John Johnson from Canada writes: Edwin, my how you spelling and grammar have improved significantly? Cutting and pasting other peoples words. Also, re: RIM, just how many of those 8,000 jobs are in Canada. I suspect that quite a few are actually not in Canada at all.
  394. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Johnson from Canada writes: re: RIM, just how many of those 8,000 jobs are in Canada. I suspect that quite a few are actually not in Canada at all.

    Read carefaully
    I said they hired more than 8,000 canadians. They only have manufacturing facilities in Canada.
    Get out from your small world. Check TSX listing of canadian companies.
    D2 is not all industries that Canada has.
  395. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: 'I'll play the optimist & hope our govt can. Scarey time for Canadians(blue collar). '

    D2 cannot represent all blue collar canadians.
  396. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Edwin! You didnt put a capital'C' on Canadians!Show some respect.Oh ya ! You also spelled 'carefully' wrong.
  397. Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Dom try reading my post. Sheesh you upset bcs I called you a troll earlier. Now you're saying I'm racist. LOL how ppl like to throw that word racist around. You're truly a troll. I have read your posts on different articles on the G&M today. Truth hurt?

    Now, that is a good question you oughta ask yourself - my posts pinched your nerve, didn't it? You just cannot sweep your own dirt under the rug.
  398. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Edwin! You didnt put a capital'C' on Canadians!

    Thank you for your advise.

    But you have to work harder on spell check for all posters, including you.

    'didnt' should be written as 'didn't'or 'did not'
  399. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Dom try reading my post. Sheesh you upset bcs I called you a troll earlier. Now you're saying I'm racist. LOL how ppl like to throw that word racist around. You're truly a troll. I have read your posts on different articles on the G&M today. Truth hurt?

    Now, that is a good question you oughta ask yourself - my posts pinched your nerve, didn't it? You just cannot sweep your own dirt under the rug.
    ----------------------------------
    Uhm NO! I call it like it is & you're a troll. Comparing the model to the fillipino nannies(you were very suggestive of them lying with no facts, just an ASSumption on your part) Calling the model a gold digger(once again ASSuming the victim asked for it). Calling anyone who dares disagree & protests seperatists & comparing them to the native Indians & quebec. You're what I called you a troll, you've made inflamatory comments on every article you have posted on. Like a neglected child looking for attention even if it's negative. I pity you.
  400. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: S Piercey from Orangeville, Canada writes: Harold K....while the sentiment of buying something 5-10K cheaper seems like sheer value. The fact is, that over the lifespan of the vehicle, you wind up paying the same, or more for a domestic, as you do for an 'import'.

    >>>> I doubt your numbers, but I cannot be sure. I only buy used cars greater than 5 years old, and Detroit-three vehicles are a much better value.

    I do no buy the mystique about Japanese cars being significantly more reliable; there is currently little evidence of that, so I will continue to let the prestige-seekers buy inflated-priced foreign used cars, while I buy a solid Ford, Chrysler, or G.M product.

    Again, it is not about the historical link Canada has to the Detroit three; it is about value.

    Cheers.
  401. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: I'm a fast typer!You forgot the 'ing' in spell--------checks,and 'including youself' instead of 'you'.Also 'postings' would sound more appropriate than 'posters'.
  402. Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada : as a piece of advice, take the window seat next time you are on a plane travelling out of Canada. Good nite and good luck.
  403. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Sorry!!Yourself!!! Gotta slow down!
  404. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Will the loss of manufacturing and technology jobs to third world countries cease in our life-time?

    No. Learn Catonese or Hindi my friends...

    We have sold our collective souls to buy cheap crap at WalMart... we do not work hard enough and do not study hard enough and yet expect that the relative riches of Western societies will magically continue... NOT.

    Enjoy the decline of the West...

    Cheers.
  405. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Indiglo Knight from Ottawa, Canada writes:'A Canadian looking out for Canadians'

    Buying foreign produced goods will not make a Canadian less Canadian.

    You have your own choice to buy Canadians but others have their own choices to buy others.

    I saw a lot of Japanese using Ipods and I saw Obama used a blackberry.
  406. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Dom Villipin from Cowboy, United States writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada : as a piece of advice, take the window seat next time you are on a plane travelling out of Canada. Good nite and good luck
    -------------------------------------
    Dom try not to lick the windows while you are in the passenger seat of your caregivers car. Good night
  407. John Perry from Canada writes: Hey people, John Perry is back again.

    Edwin, I've noticed you ruffled a few feathers since I last was on :->>

    You know, this guy is the type of fellow who would even turn off his supporters with the way he presents his facts and defends them. He has this fixation with somehow putting the screws to the CAW & GM & Chrysler, and does not have one negative thing to say about imports flooding our country.

    Edwin, you state we're not big enough to compete on a level playing field with the Chinese and Americans. Since when does size of country or its population determine its place in the economic sphere of things, to the exclusion of everything else?

    If we're to become niche players in whatever industry or market you suggest we do, what are your suggestions? Who's to say we won't be swamped by some cheap foreign-based competitor who benefits from one-way trade ?

    Get it through your skull Edwin - the Koreans for example are the kings of dumping at the moment. We stand no chance of doing the same to them, because they'll stop us from doing it. Your'e defending unfair trade practices being practiced by mostly Asian countries. You make it sound like we shouldn't care, because countries like China and Korea are actually doing us a favour.

    What do you think will happen when the Chinese master the technology behind the Blackberry ? How do you think they'll get that technology? By stealing it, of course.

    You know as well as I do that the Chinese have long been the kings of cheap knock-offs and stealers of other countries technology.

    I got a few Asian guys at work who go around with luggages selling pirated DVD's to augment their income. You think that's right, Edwin? Man oh man what I would give to see these clowns busted.
  408. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Heed to Harold's words!!!!The greenback is indeed crumbling. Read it in todays business report.
  409. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Everyone wants better product at a lower price, that pushed globalization. No single country can manufacture everything they need and satisfy all its citizens...
    That's why we have to keep changing and that's how human improves.


    >>>>> A race to the bottom is hardly 'human improvement'; it is human degradation --
    degradation of human rights, labour standards, environmental standards, etc.

    All to have more people consume more crap to poison the planet.

    Great plan. Unbridled corporate capitalism and free trade is the last nail in the coffin of humanity.

    Cheers.

  410. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Will the loss of manufacturing and technology jobs to third world countries cease in our life-time?

    No. Learn Catonese or Hindi my friends...

    We have sold our collective souls to buy cheap crap at WalMart... we do not work hard enough and do not study hard enough and yet expect that the relative riches of Western societies will magically continue... NOT.

    Enjoy the decline of the West...

    Cheers
    -------------------------------------------------
    I agree & this is what worries me btw cheers
  411. John Perry from Canada writes: SST smash up derby from NS, how you doing buddy? See you have had a run-in with some ignorant types.....oh well, take it from John Perry, it's only par for the course.
  412. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: 'We have sold our collective souls to buy cheap crap at WalMart... '

    If you think buying from Walmart are equivalent to selling your soul, I doubt if you think the workers at Walmarts are slaves.

    Why don't you help them not to be slaves and provide subsidy to them so that they make the same amount as autoworkers?
  413. John Perry from Canada writes: Whether you despise GM and the CAW or not, the issue here is the loss of jobs, and the subsequent loss of revenue for all our cities and communities.

    I guess it's too easy to just jump onto the idiot wagon and complain with false facts and truckloads of misinformation about GM, Chrysler, and the CAW instead of facing the negatives that accompany this bad news.

    Now, I know very few of you union and GM haters are capable of reading this far, but the truth is without GM and Chrysler supporting these people, who are your fellow citizens, your tax dollars are destined to go to them in one form or another.

    That's right folks! You will pay for them either through EI, or welfare or propping up the companies themselves. The difference is when you support the company and the union, they have the chance of paying money back into the community and supporting the company you work for. That's why your government has provided them the aid thus far.

    So, it's pay now, or pay later folks..don't pay now, and you will forever lose the bulk of the industry. With those loses comes lack of support for the company YOU work for. It will mean an increase in taxes to support all those without jobs.

    Remember, taxes are a politician's heroin. They can't stop, and they will get their fix one way or another. Choose to keep your share of taxes low, and our share of the market high, support GM, Chrysler, the CAW, and your fellow citizen.

    Cars from foreign countries are not cheaper, either initially, for repairs, or even socially.

    Remember, somewhere there's someone willing to take YOUR job because they will do it for less. Stop racing to the bottom.
  414. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: Get it through your skull Edwin - the Koreans for example are the kings of dumping at the moment. We stand no chance of doing the same to them, because they'll stop us from doing it. Your'e defending unfair trade practices being practiced by mostly Asian countries. You make it sound like we shouldn't care, because countries like China and Korea are actually doing us a favour.

    What do you think will happen when the Chinese master the technology behind the Blackberry ? How do you think they'll get that technology? By stealing it, of course.


    >>>>> Agreed, John Perry. The Detroit-three would be a much better position had their been FAIR trade; Japan and Korea being principle offenders to blocking imports of D-3 products...

    The Korean dumping is the reason I will never buy a Korean vehicle...
  415. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes:.Saw pre-WW2 pics today of Japanese soldiers beheading the Chinese. Nasty stuff! I thought the Germans were bad enough!!!
    --------------------------------------
    This is relevant, how?
  416. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Edwin Lee from Canada writes: Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: 'We have sold our collective souls to buy cheap crap at WalMart... '

    If you think buying from Walmart are equivalent to selling your soul, I doubt if you think the workers at Walmarts are slaves.

    Why don't you help them not to be slaves and provide subsidy to them so that they make the same amount as autoworkers?

    >>>> You clearly missed my points -- not that you were open to them in either case...

    It appears you simply seek attention here - enjoy.

    Goodnight gents.
  417. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I'd buy a Korean, we have a korean company in my area & they treat their workers well. I'd also buy a Toyota as they support my fellow Canadians. I would however prefer a Canadian auto company
  418. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Did you see the other week how the Japanese trade minister FREAKED when the US were implementing their 'buy American' slogan. Now they are happy with Obama's push for the 'green technology' because of their ugly,f*&^%kin boring Priuses.LONG LIVE THE MUSCLE MACHINE!
  419. John Perry from Canada writes: Hey SST, check this out. I have a Chinese guy who works near me, who has a brother who works on the opposite shift. Needless to say, they drive foreign cars, par for the course. Now John Perry has a very good rapport with this clown, and can pretty well make ethnic jokes that don't get too personal.

    One night I asked this guy why he and his brother bought Japanese cars, seeing that the Japanese had treated the Chinese people very cruelly in the past. Why show loyalty to another ethnic group that enslaved yours?

    Of course, John Perry was joshing, he knows you can't carry these kinds of grudges forever. But my Asian friend's answer was very revealing of his, and his compatriots mindsets. He said he instinctively knew the Japanese car was a better deal, and yes, solidarity with a fellow Asian country were a factor in his and his brother's decision.

    My wife had an uncle who hated Germans till the day he died. He was a POW in WW2, and what he went through and saw of the Germans cemented in his mind forever the cruelty of these people. Irrational, maybe, but the human mind is an indecipherable thing.
  420. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: It is not revelant sir! Your right but I was just directing my comments to my buddy John Perry because every comment made by him is very interesting. Edwin and him are intelligent people, but I find Edwin's comments to be sort of boring. Like unsalted popcorn.
  421. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'does not have one negative thing to say about imports flooding our country' I object to any bailout to foreign companies, including imports. 'Since when does size of country or its population determine its place in the economic sphere of things, to the exclusion of everything else?' Canada cannot live without them but they can live without Canada. That's why Canada do not have bargaining chips in terms of international trade 'Who's to say we won't be swamped by some cheap foreign-based competitor who benefits from one-way trade ?' We do one-way trade of some items to some countries and other countries do one-way trade to Canada on other items. One single country cannot have everything to sell. 'Koreans for example are the kings of dumping at the moment. We stand no chance of doing the same to them, because they'll stop us from doing it.' How? 'What do you think will happen when the Chinese master the technology behind the Blackberry ? How do you think they'll get that technology? By stealing it, of course' We created something else or created better Blackberry. When you teach your child to play soccer, if your child cannot run fast, you teach him to learn better ball skills. Do you want to take all the fast runners out of the game to protect your child, or teach him other techniques?
  422. John Perry from Canada writes: FOR THOSE WHO DON'T THINK THE THE AUTO INDUSTRY IS IMPORTANT TO CANADA, JUST A FEW FACTS:

    The auto industry is Canada's single largest exporter, accounting for $80 billion, or 18% or the nations total exports in 2007.
    Auto industry exports valued a fifth more than those from the oil & gas industry, and more than double the level from each of the forestry & paper, primary metals, or agriculture & food sectors.
    As a crucial source of high-technology investment and productivity growth, the industry boosts our national economic performance.
    The benefits of the industry are felt throughout the country through supplier links, consumer spending, taxes and inter-provincial equalization payments.
    Auto workers paycheques pumped $9.5 billion into the Canadian economy in 2005 (or $26 million a day).
    The industry supports services that everyone depends upon, like health care, education and social services. Auto workers fundraising efforts also directly support community organizations such as the United Way, food
    banks and women's shelters. In 2005, auto workers paid $2 billion in federal and provincial income tax (or $5.5 million a day).
    And most auto workers own homes. Based on average property tax rates, auto workers supported $319 million in municipal taxes in 2005 (or $873,000 a day), helping to pay for local services.

    Are you listening Edwin Lee?
  423. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I'd buy a Korean, we have a korean company in my area & they treat their workers well.

    >>> And that relates to Korean dumping of vehicles in North American how??

    Anyway, aside from the issues of (a) unfair trade and (b) the race to the bottom -- both part and parcel to unbridled global corporate capitalism -- North American still needs to get our own house in order...

    Improve the education system, work ethic, and striving for a better society -- we once had that, but to some degree we have gotten soft...

    One sign -- the drop in the percentage of young men persuing higher education (and girls being 75% contestents at Canadian science fairs -- once of the domain of young, bright, and ambitious boys...)

    Nite all.
  424. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: It is not revelant sir! Your right but I was just directing my comments to my buddy John Perry because every comment made by him is very interesting. Edwin and him are intelligent people, but I find Edwin's comments to be sort of boring. Like unsalted popcorn.
    --------------------------------------
    LOL it's ma'am. Edwin has his opinion even though I disagree with some of his comments. I must commend him for sheer perseverance /determination alone in trying to get his point across.
  425. John Perry from Canada writes: No question GM and Chrysler are largely responsible for their own fate but people, really! You're grasp of the facts is unbelievably weak:

    - The best selling vehicles for each of the 'Big Three' are TRUCKS! Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado / GMC Sierra, Dodge Ram. This does not sound like products 'nobody wants'

    - The best selling vehicle (car or truck) in North America for the last 30 years is ...wait for it!... the Ford F-150. A PICKUP TRUCK MADE BY A DOMESTIC MANUFACTURER! Again, 'nobody wants these?'

    - for the better part of the last two decades, the best selling vehicles in each of the Big Three lineups have been either trucks or SUV's (and now crossovers)

    - the volume and profits generated by these types of vehicles were enough to convince the imports (Honda, Toyota and Nissan in particular) to start building them too. Remember when Toyota and Nissan pickups were ugly little 'truck-lets'? Not any more!

    Point being, companies will build what people demand. And, to a large extent, they will continue to demand these big vehicles.
  426. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: I'd buy a Korean, we have a korean company in my area & they treat their workers well.

    >>> And that relates to Korean dumping of vehicles in North American how??
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Well bcs they employ canadians which is of importance to me. How can you call it dumping when ppl are buying it. You make it sound like they're putting it in our garbage heap. As far as I'm concerned we(Canadians being emplyed) are getting something out of it
  427. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'Whether you despise GM and the CAW or not, the issue here is the loss of jobs, and the subsequent loss of revenue for all our cities and communities.'

    Yes, let's subsidize all auto executives to have more bonus. We cannot lose their tax dollars (much more than autoworkers).

    'without GM and Chrysler supporting these people, who are your fellow citizens, your tax dollars are destined to go to them in one form or another. You will pay for them either through EI, or welfare'

    I choose the latter one that is cheaper. Savings can be used to help other poorer canadians.

    'So, it's pay now, or pay later folks..don't pay now, and you will forever lose the bulk of the industry.'

    I choose pay later. D2 not bulk of industry anyway.

    'Stop racing to the bottom'

    Sure. You subsidize my pay raise first and then I subsidize yours later.
  428. John Perry from Canada writes: As a long time Chrysler guy, I can say this:

    - 'government should bail them out', 'Obama-nomics', 'poor little dealers', 'GM out-of-touch fat cat management', 'greedy confrontational union', etc.- but these are all way too simplistic.

    The management and unions which are contractually obligated to GM share equal responsibility in this mess - ALONG WITH THE NORTH AMERICAN CONSUMER.

    GM, Ford & Chrysler are a long way from Deming's 14 Points of Quality - applied in the post-war in Japan to produce their modern industrial revolution (producing
    the Toyotas and the Nissans).
    GM experimented with Deming's approach in the late 80s and early 90s. So what happened?

    Deming advocated a change of mentality as evidenced in his 14 Points of Quality. It was never designed as a quick fix - which was how it was applied at GM. After the crisis of the late 80s early 90s subsided, old mentalities re-emerged - because mentalities had never changed.
    To be fair to both GM management and workers, North American consumers bear much of the blame. We are 20 years behind Europe, Asia, and even Australia where small fuel-efficient cars are driven by most people - and made by the Big Three for these markets. Yet in North America by and large we still have a pre-occupation with size and love our big cars. If we do buy smaller Japanese cars it is on the basis of price-point only.
  429. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Your right John!!! You can't hold grudges forever and time does move on. I still know Phillipino's that will not drive a Japanese vehicle because of what happened to them in the war. Had a cousin working as a designer for Black and Decker. Was sent to Japan always. He said those people are very disciplined and respect and honor their own country. Seems to be alot of that sentiment lacking in the western society(if you know what I mean bud)!!!! Read the history of what GM did and especially during WW2. People seem to forget and it's sad.I will always support the D3. People will disagree with me, but respect my views and i wil respect yours. Remember which car MADE the 'Fast and furious' interesting?? That beautiful Charger!!! OUCH
  430. day tripper from Victoria, Canada writes: Globe and Mail is being cowardly in 'closing' comments on articles related to the collapse of the Detroit auto makers.
    They would like us to believe that most Canadians are all for a bailout of these branch plant failures, where in fact I would doubt even Ontarians are interested.
    A shameful example of media manipulation.
    Let these losers die, for God's sake enough is enough!
    I don't want my tax dollars supporting a group of workers who are incompetent and overpaid. I don't want to subsidize their design, manufacture, marketing, employee 'pensions', dental plans, college tuition plans, or any part of their bloated excess.
    They deserve to die - PERIOD.
    Jesus, this is like a 100 year old person in diapers being kept alive in a nursing home so they can drool all over themselves.
    Pull the plug already ! This is embarassing.
  431. John Perry from Canada writes: You guys DON'T GET IT! The point is, plain and simple, that if GM goes down in Southern Ontario we ALL go down. EVERYONE will be affected. Believe it or not that is the simple truth. Stop being such cynical, judgmental, holier than thou 'experts' on the auto industry and face the reality...we are all in trouble and need to support one another through this tough time. I really hope that GM pulls through this and if my tax dollars are to go toward something, I would rather have it go towards helping keep my fellow Canadians working than to pad the politician's back pockets. What happened to 'Proud To Be Canadian'? Let's keep our people working and stop stabbing each other in the back!
  432. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Harold why the animosity towards Korean auto companies?
  433. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Sorry ma'am!! You have your opinion and I have mine! Goodnight!!!!
  434. anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Comments now are sounding like a dysfunctional family I have had the displeasure of hearing when I was in the health services dept. I'm out!
  435. John Perry from Canada writes: anonymous in Ont from Canada writes: Harold why the animosity towards Korean auto companies?

    SIMPLE: We have a 'free' trade deal with Korea on cars. Here's the latest stats from 2007:

    CARS FROM HERE TO KOREA: 5635 or so

    CARS FROM KOREA TO HERE: 765,000 or so.

    Is that free trade, or fair trade?? Can anyone name me a Hyundai or KAI factory in North America, just curious. John Perry doesn't know offhand if there is one. But whatever the answer is, it's immaterial to the debate. The Koreans are practicing serious and classical dumping big time on our shores.
  436. SST smash up derby from NS, Canada writes: Take it easy John!!! I wish i could chat more and read your great comments , but these toothpicks can't keep my eyelids open anymore. Hopefully this will keep going on in the morning,unless the printer decides to kill the commentaries. CAO!!!!!!
  437. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: ps. I have no connection to the auto industry, other than moving to Windsor a few years ago...

    It is simply too easy to complain about the Detroit-three companies, their workers and the CAW... without the facts.

    Detriot-three vehicles are generally best in value; the bonus is that we also have a current and historic connection with them -- hey we invented the auto with our American friends...

    North Americans sell their skills, abilities, and innovations short far too often.

    Good night folks.
  438. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: if GM goes down in Southern Ontario we ALL go down. EVERYONE will be affected.

    Few weeks ago, your slogan: everyone go down with D3.

    Now, your new slogan: everyone go down with GM.

    We are scared...
  439. John Perry from Canada writes: A little common sense for a change. All you union haters get in a time machine and go live 100 years ago and see what that was like. Or maybe try the old USSR or Nazi Germany. Unions weren't allowed there either. China might be the place for you.I am convinced that investing tax dollars into these industrial giants is the right thing to do.

    I do know that the loss of industry of this size will have repercussions that the vast ignorati have not even thought about i.e steel industry, nickle and copper mining and so on. What a disaster if these huge manufacturing giants go down. Remember, assembly lines at Ford and GM helped in no small measure to win the second world war. Maybe the union benefits are not to your liking, I don't know, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. A great many problems facing this industry are not all of their own making. Over production by so many new companies entering the market is certainly not GM's fault and to say the quality is just not there I think is unrealistic. Hondas and Toyotas are not Rolls Royces for gods sake. Unfair trading practices are another major flaw in this system.
  440. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'Let's keep our people working and stop stabbing each other in the back! '

    Right.
    Let's keep poorer people working first and stop stabbing poorer canadians in the back and took their money.
  441. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: All good points John. (although your referring to yourself by your name is a bit of a concern, lol ;)

    Night.
  442. John Perry from Canada writes: Night SST, see you tomorrow. John Perry is not tired yet, he's been off work for close to 3 weeks now, rejuvenated of course !

    All of you who hate me and my class of autoworkers should know what to do now if you want us to stop collecting EI & SUB - purchase a Big Three vehicle manufactured by an original Big Three manufacturing facility in North America.

    Of course, John Perry could get too used to this laid-back lifestyle, courtesy of you who swear by imports. The choice is yours homies.
  443. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Nova Scotia?! And I thought I was up late...

    Gotta get some sleep for work tomorrow. Cheers.
  444. Dominion Lad from Peaceable Kingdom, Canada writes: My father, who has just passed away, bought as his last car this past Fall, a 2009 Toyota Camry. I expressed surprise/shock, as he was a GM man his whole life. I asked why, and he simply said that he was finally tired of the 'garbage' that came out of Detroit. And like my Honda, his Camry is also made in North America, employing Canadians and Americans, and by extension, supporting local communities.

    To the whiners above complaining about where the profits go - suggesting that non D-3 car manufacturers take all their money back to Tokyo etc, do you seriously think that GM Canada for example, keeps its profits? It is controlled by GM Detroit, and that's where their profits go, after shareholder payouts, of course.

    I've driven my share of D-3 cars over the years. Never again. They're either stodgy (lack of style), or simply behemouths - land yachts, creaking and rattling down the road, with flaking paint chips flying off. My Honda is one sweet ride. And the gas mileage - well in excess of what Obama and Harper are cajoling the D-3 to produce.
  445. John Perry from Canada writes: Harold K , trust me, I'm okay upstairs. If you read an earlier post of mine, I made reference to this 'third' person schtick I use for a reason.

    HINT: Continue to read Edwin Lee's posts, you might get your answer.

    John Perry wishes you happy dreams ;->>
  446. Edwin Lee from Canada writes: John Perry from Canada writes: 'China might be the place for you.I am convinced that investing tax dollars into these industrial giants is the right thing to do'

    Cuba is the place for you. Everyone got government bailout of lifetime job, same pay and no greedy corporation.

    Most canadians not convinced about this robbery.
  447. Harold K from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Dominion Lad from Peaceable Kingdom, the latest findings contradict your anti-Detroit-three bias.

    Ford now makes vehicles as high in quality and safety (they do own Volvo) as Toyota or Honda, and Chrysler and GM are not far behind.

    Also, Detroit three cars are also particularly a great value when used -- cheaper and easier to maintain.

    Unfortunately, some white-collar snobs have got it in their minds that foreign, principly Japanese, vehicles have higher prestige...

    The myths persist
  448. John Perry from Canada writes: When you have fools supporting foreign owned manufacturers & believing the propaganda generated by the same fools, how can an industry survive no matter how good the product is.Yes the management is faulty but in the end the product is good and without North American support, there will no longer be the big 3 with the history and prosperity they created in our country.

    Think about this as a sideline...most things are made in China, we keep spending more money for new equipment in China to make more stuff. China is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and getting stronger. Thank North American CEO's for that one, plus ignorant consumers. They will soon be the world supplier for the majority of items. Sound like a monopoly? Remember China is run by a communist government with little to no human rights. Buying items made in China supports communism, ignores human rights and strengthens their resolve. What will happen to North American manufacturing when everything is being built in low cost centers in Asia? There aren't that many McDonalds jobs to go around Edwin. Think about it...seriously.

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