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What now for Canucks?

Globe and Mail Update

Gillis's managing skills will be put to the test in Vancouver this summer, starting with a decision on the Sedins ...Read the full article

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  1. John - from BC Interior, Canada writes: Gillis can start by ensuring that he doesn't waste additional money on Sundin. I don't recall if Demitra was signed to a multi-year deal. If not, send him packing too.

    With the kind of money Luongo is making, I must admit I'm not that impressed with his overall performance. "The best goalie in the world" moniker that some have given him might be attributed to wishful thinking. He's a good goalie, but I don't even recall Cloutier giving up 7 goals in a playoff game.

    I think the twins will stay in Vancouver, but losing Ohlund would not be a tragic loss.

    Free agency won't build the Canucks into a Stanley Cup contender - that route is too expensive. And, finishing the season with 90 to 100 points won't allow you to draft a team such as the Blackhawks have assembled. What's a team to do?
  2. Mr Smash from Canada writes: Dear Ingrates/Canucks fans: Without Luongo you have a 10th seeded team at best with no playoff dates again this year.

    Think about that before you start talking trash.

    Send Luongo to Toronto for Pogge and Grabovski.
  3. K C from Vancouver, Canada writes: I can't wait to see Cody Hodgson in a Canucks uniform.
  4. Black Gold from Canada writes: After insulting their loyal fan base with 7 goals allowed in a playoff game, the Canucks should be ashamed of themselves. This is a defense oriented team that gave up 7 goals in the most important game of their season. That is almost as embarrasing as the Sharks' implosion in the first round.
  5. D Chris from Calgary, Canada writes: John wrote: "Free agency won't build the Canucks into a Stanley Cup contender - that route is too expensive. And, finishing the season with 90 to 100 points won't allow you to draft a team such as the Blackhawks have assembled. What's a team to do?"

    As a Flames fan, and admitted Canucks hater, I couldn't agree more. I feel the same way coming out of this season re. the Flames.

    Is it better in this hockey world to be a good but not quite great team consistently, or dwell in the basement long enough to amass a Penguins-Capitals-Blackhawks like team? And if the latter, do you then try to quickly head back to the basement after you've peaked (ditching current for future assets to excelerate the fall) to start the rise and fall pattern again?

    And before others say it on my behalf -- you bet, I'm all sour grapes after this year.
  6. don diego from Canada writes: Let's face it - the Canucks had no answer to the young and quick Hawks forwards. They decided to try and run and gun with them last night (and for most of the series), as you saw the result. The team was not built to play like that, and it cost them. Kane's 3rd goal? Brilliant. The Canucks don't have a player on their team that can score a goal like that (nor do most other teams) - the Hawks have 3 in Kane, Toews and Havlat. Except for his goal, Sundin did little again last night. He looked slow (even for him) and behind the play most of the time. Time to cut him loose. Ohlund WILL be a loss if he goes on the market, as good steady defencemen that can play 25 minutes when needed don't grow on trees. I agree the twins will most likely return. Without Sundin and Ohlund ($8.5M combined I believe), plus another $2M in role players, plus the $2.5M they had in cap space, the team has the ability to pick up either 2 impact players (hopefully forwards) or 3 very good ones. I never understood the need to build an expensive defence around an expensive goalie. Pick one or the other, then put the rest of the money up front. If this playoff round showed anything it was again that if the twins don't score, the team is in real trouble. Time to upgrade that STAT.
  7. Jasper the Black Lab from Canada writes: To be blunt, the Sedins and Ohlund are not worth $6.5 Million each as the free agent market is likely to offer them. But with the hints of a declining cap in future years, these market values may have dropped considerably in the past 6 to 10 months.

    It's a relatively minor point, but by quite plainly attributing the success of this year's team mainly to "inherited" players, Duhatschek does a bit of a dis-service to GM Mike Gillis in not further investigating how Gillis brought lot of beneficial changes to systems and methods, beyond the player roster.

    At the beginning of his tenure, Gillis said bluntly that the team was not close to a championship. Realistically, were his early additions of Bernier, Demitra, and Wellwood enough to put the team over the top? The Mats Sundin signing clearly did not work out as planned.

    I would very much like to have Bernier, Demitra, and Wellwood back next year, and would even take Sundin at a much reduced salary. If the Sedins and Ohlund are gone, I trust Gillis will ably replace them.

    Eric Duhatchek's column ends on a very positive note: BLUE AND GREEN!
  8. Ed Long from Canada writes: Nux defence was overwhelmed by Hawks speed and toughness. The Hawks controlled more pucks behind the Nux net than the Nux did. The defence needs young talent.

    The forwards are a hodge-podge of mercenary over the hill superstars, Sundin, mature stars, Sedins, and hard-working soldiers, Kesler, Wellwood, Burrows etc.

    Luongo is a question mark. His greatest value may be a trade for a pile of draft picks.

    Beyond Hodgson, there is nothing on the farm and one player will not change a team.

    I am satisfied this team made second round. At the beginning of the season, that looked pretty good.

    To move forward, may mean dumping some big names to get multiple draft picks for young talent. Pat Quinn, on 1040AM radio this morning, says this is a good Canuck team. Sorry, Pat, you have never won a Cup. Scottie Bowman has NINE and he always develops young talent, speed and toughness ... i.e. Montreal, Pittsburgh, Detroit and now- Chicago.

    And then the big question .... are Nux fans sophisticated enough to realize a championship will only come with a bench full of young talent anchored by solid hardworking veterans.
  9. Sam Salmon from Vancouver-by-the-Sea, Canada writes: Vigneault has gotta go!

    Chicago's speed and superior coaching won the series-Vancouver's coaching was abysmal in response.
  10. Ripley Bogle from Vancouver, Canada writes: As affable as Coach AV is, he's got to go. That 'chess match' he tried to play in Game 4 was simply inexcusable, and cost the Canucks the series. Gillis has no choice but to go out and hire his own coach now.

    And the Canucks need to get themselves a captain- this whole goalie as captain thing is gimmicky and, clearly, not working. Luongo is grossly overrated.

    The media need to stop calling Luongo the best player on the team/the best goalie in the league. It's simply not true. We all know that he's really good- at times- but if the Canucks are ever going to go further, they're going to need more than this so-called 'superstar' at the helm.
  11. straight goods from Canada writes: Ohlund goes, Sundin goes.

    We spend money and get some quick defensemen.

    Defense is the key to any team.

    Luongo has been holding that defense for much of the year and when he lost some confidence after game 4 and a bit of focus that spelled the end.

    The Canuck D is too damn slow both of foot, slow sticks and with the size of some of the forwards today they cannot even move them out.

    There is not a team in the world that is worth a damn without the defense getting the puck out of their own end and getting the puck up to the forwards. All the rest is academic.

    Van have a good goalkeeper and adaquate forwards but the D is not good.

    Last night the D could not catch Kane, Toews etc. so not able to hit them.

    Spend some money and get a couple of big quick Defensemen.
  12. Jeff George from Canada writes: I'm also looking forward to Cory Hodgson making the team next fall. I think they'll sign the Sedins but Bernier should be on his way elsewhere and Sundin won't be resigned even if he wants to play (I hope). Defense is going to require the most changes. Ohlund and Salo may be gone. Edler isn't a favourite of mine but they just gave him a new contract so he'll be back, as will Willie. Coach likes O'Brien so we can only hope he gets a brain transplant in the off-season and stops taking stupid penalties. I'm not sure they have any D in Winnipeg that make the next step up to the NHL or whether they will have to make a deal. Without Sundin they'll have some money to spend unless it all goes to the Sedins.
    I'm looking forward to a first line of Kesler, Hodgson and Raymond. The Sedins and Burrows are solid. Wellwood will stay and likely play with Pyatt and someone new. I'd like to see Ryan Johnson given a chance on the third line but he's the most important part of the fourth line right now.
    The Canucks will be better next year. The Sundin experiment was a failure. $5 million could have got us someone much better and faster.
    Cory Schneider should be ready for the NHL when Luongo does leave.
  13. c n from Smithers, Canada writes: As a longtime Sedin basher I was willing to change my tune if they came up big this year in the playoffs. Regular season play is only a warmup. Their lack of speed was glaring next to Chicago's top guns. They will not take a hit to make a play. Getting rubbed along the boards does not classify as a hit. When the game and season was on the line one of them made it over the blue line and bailed at the first sign of a D and handed the puck to Chicago. This to me is what it is all about. Blaming Louongo for goals he had no chance on is not fair. When a guy has all the time in the world to shoot or make a cross ice pass the goalie usually loses out. Keep Ohlund, he is steady as a rock. Replace Salo with someone who does not blow his groin when he takes a hard shot. The guy is a walking hospital bed. Very talented but wrecked. Nursing a one goal league, what was that all about afew games back? You are not safe with a team like CHI unless you are two or three goals ahead and less than 5 minutes to go. Chicago is very young and they beat a slow team. Their next round will be fast on both sides and should be awesome hockey. Can they keep their confidence up is the real question.
  14. Captain Apollo from Canada writes: If Burke tries to sign the Sedins he should be fired immediately. They're way to soft. There's much better players out there at the same price.
  15. Hockeydad London from Canada writes: Interesting read and comments. Nuks are an inbetween team. Not good enough that a tweak will make them great and not bad enough to build through the draft. With all that is going on with Phonex, I think it is tougher on Canadian teams in a way, it is easier in the US to churn and burn. The cycle is more acceptable. Look at Pittsburg and how the current team was built. Philly had a crash and burn year with a great rebuild. LA coming out of the bottom with some excellent young players. The new NHL model appears to be either Detroit where your continuity makes you attractive ie Hossa, and players are willing to take a home town discount to play on a winner, or, cheap and young and develop as a group, with key vets. Chicago is the best current example of that. Are the fans willing to accept that model, well, they may have no choice as Toronto is finding out.
  16. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: First don't panic. A lot of pieces to the puzzle are in place.

    The comments slagging Luongo are laughable.

    Without Lu the Canucks are worse than the Oilers.

    Lu had a bad game 6 and didn't have a great series against the Hawks. An inability by the Canuck d-men to handle the Hawks skilled forwards played as big a part in those 7 goals as Luongo did.

    How soon fans forget about the stellar performance Lu had in round 1.

    The biggest decision is what to do with the Sedin twins. Personally I don't think they are the answer.

    Although they have certainly improved over the years they are still too soft for the playoffs. When the series got tough they folded like a wet paper bag.

    A replacement for Sundin is going to be required. That experiment didn't work out; not for what Mats was getting paid.

    A genuine puck-moving d-man would help as well. Salo is good, but not great.
  17. don diego from Canada writes: Straight goods - how many big quick defencemen can you name???

    Sounds great in theory, but the reality is you get one or the other, not both.

    Between Willie, Salo, Bieksa and Ohlund (if he returns) you have $14 - $17M (depending on Ohlund's deal) tied up in 4 players. Add Luongo's $7M, and you've already spent more than half you cap on the back third of your team - no wonder they can't score! I agree defense is important, but it doesn't do you much good if you can't put the puck in the net consistently.

    Let Ohlund go, trade Bieksa for a forward, bring up Hodgson, and sign a true scorer, either through FA (Hossa) or through the Bieksa trade (Philly could use him, and their agains the cap). With the room they have they could in theory do both.
  18. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: Ed Long from Canada writes:

    "And then the big question .... are Nux fans sophisticated enough to realize a championship will only come with a bench full of young talent anchored by solid hardworking veterans."

    Really? Because Detroit won last year and they didn't have a bench full of young talent. All of their talent are seasoned veterans.

    Anaheim the year before had Getzlaf and Perry for young players and that was it. Otherwise pretty much all seasoned veterans.

    Carolina the year before that. Hardly a team full of young talent. Certainly no more than the Nucks have.

    Funny how you Canuck fans have gone from Cup prognostications to comparing your team with the Islanders and Avalanche.

    Vancouver won the division and went to game 6 in the 2nd round. A complete overhaul is hardly in order.

    Panic and gross over-reacting is no way to build a championship team.
  19. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: UFA defencemen available July 1st include:
    Scott Neidermeyer
    Francois Beauchemin
    Teppo Numminen
    Adrian Aucoin
    Sergei Zubov
    Darryl Sydor
    Jay Bouwmeester
    Nick Boynton
    Matthieu Schneider
    Greg DeVries
    Niclas Havelid
    Paul Mara
    Derian Hatcher
    Dmitri Kalinin
    Hal Gill
    Rob Blake.

    Not so sure how many of those qualify as young or quick. And I may have missed someone.
  20. Keith Loh from Vancouver, Canada writes: After game 4's chess match I knew AV has overstayed his welcome. He is a good coach but I just cannot stand his style any longer where every win is the hardest victory ever and every loss a painful disappointment. Chicago surely got to Luongo with their style and ability to work their magic with too much space. Any goalie will give up goals when being crashed and screened and Luongo was worn down even after game two. Earlier poster is correct, all of the new exciting teams got good by being very bad. For the past few years Canucks have summoned up the spirit to rise about mediocrity but never had the pieces to go far yet haven't been so bad that they won the lottery. That is because Orca Bay is a better business than it is an athletic team. They want that revenue more than they can stomach rebuilding. Yet we have seen our opponents who were a laughing stock not so many years ago making it to the conference finals reaping the benefits of sound drafting and the lottery. And they are an exciting and fun team to watch. Canucks management has been too scared to blow it all up thinking they just need a magic bullet for next year. Gillis and many thought this year would be the rebuilding year but -- to the team's credit -- they brought it. I congratulate them on their performance and Vigneault did well down the stretch -- but hockey is more than just putting up points by scraping out a defensive win; it is about entertainment and fun. That in itself is a brand and I would support that even through rebuilding years.
  21. Joe Sieben from Canada writes: Luongo to Tampa for thier second overall pick in this year's entry draft. Tavares or Hedman might join a youth movement led by Hodgeson and Schnieder. Ohlund sould stay, mentoring, or go. The twins MUST be retained! Sundin is finished unless he was playing on a broken leg. Coaching and strategy were baseline reasons for the failure to contain Chicago.
  22. Ed Long from Canada writes: Hockeydad ... Great comments and a very good point.

    American teams can quickly blow up a team and rebuild because their fan base only follows winners. Hawks were down to just over 3000 season ticket holders when young Wirz began the rebuild.

    American fans are fair weather and don't usually get attached to players because hockey is not a big sport. It is alternative entertainment.

    The Nux have player's numbers hanging from the roof and they have never won a Cup. Think about it. There was actually a poll as to whether Naslund, as in Marcus of the New York Rangers, should be brought back for a ceremony and hang his number.

    Owners are not dumb. If their customers accept mediocrity setting records for attendance and merchandise sales, just ice an entertaining regular season team.

    The league, meaning the group of owners, know that American teams must be winners to draw.
  23. Jasper the Black Lab from Canada writes: Daniel Sedin 08-09 regular season: 82 games, 82 points
    Henrik Sedin 08-09 regular season: 82 games, 82 points
    Daniel Sedin 08-09 playoffs: 10 games, 10 points
    Henrik Sedin 08-09 playoffs: 10 games, 10 points

    Most people would have to agree these guys give fairly consistent production.
  24. William Brown from Sarnia, Canada writes: Luongo still has done nothing to prove that he is a good NHL goalie, good season, but out in 2nd round, same as when they had Dan Cloutier.
  25. David Allan from Canada writes: Ripley, I couldn't agree more...Luongo just hopefully had an off year, and not a typical year for him going forward. He was good, and not great for a vast majority of the season. And for a guy making 6.75M "good" just isn't good enough. They actually had a pretty decent offence this year, it was their defence and goaltending that fell off a little.

    Sundin looked a little disinterested this year from what I saw. As a Leaf fan I'm used to him being "the guy"...taking all the important draws, playing on PP and PK and logging 20-25 min/game. Vigneault chose to use him as a complimentary player, despite his salary, and this was a mistake I believe. He's a much better player than the Vancouver fans saw this year.
  26. Pat Billings from Canada writes: No matter where Sundin plays, or who he plays with, he simply can't win. He's like Cujo.....many more accolades than accomplishments.
  27. Hugh Draper from Canada writes: Get more Canadians and Russians on the roster.
  28. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: I have to wonder if we Canuck fans were oversold on the supposed solidity of our defense.

    Joe Sieben's suggestion of Luongo to Tampa for Victor Hedman is fascinating and worth considering. But can Tampa handle Luongo's salary? It also depends on whether Cory Schnieder is NHL-ready.
  29. straight goods from Canada writes: Don A couple of points. During the season I go to approx two games a week of the BCHL and WHL and see a lot of hockey.

    Several things I have seen over the years.:

    - without the d moving the puck quickly forward the forwards are not going to break as a unit. this means that one guy might go in but not the whole unit. The scoring or lack of it reflect this in any league.

    - A good goalkeeper is only as good as the D in front of him on most nights. I watched Andrew Hammond of Vernon play with the Eagles with a poor defense and he was mediocre. He goes to Vernon with Kyle Bigos and they win the RBC cup as National Champs this year.

    I watched Gomez, Turris, and a whole lot more in juniors and how they worked with their D. or not.

    The Canucks spend a fortune on players with little to show for it now spend a fortune on a couple of D men.

    I watched Seabrook (both Bros.) in junior and you see potential for development and raw talent. Go for it.
  30. Ross g from Canada writes: Vancouver had more potential to win in the playoffs before they signed Sundin, chemistry is a huge part of what makes teams win and despite the strong second half of the season they had, signing Sundin to be an important part of the team changed the chemistry and lowered the their potential to go far in the playoffs. It wasn't Sundin's fault, he gave what he had.
    The Sedins are good but don't have the jam to be the core of a cup winner, the heart of anyteam they went far with would reside in other players on that team.
    Let Sundin go unless he wants to be a third line player for low $ and let the twins go.
    Sign Bowmeester
    Find more players like Kesler with grit and jam.
    Character trumps talent and chemistry is the key to winning the cup.
    Hawks have both....
  31. Little Bear from Canada writes: Straight Goods _ I agree with you and we must have been watching the same games.

    There is also such a thing as a quick stick for defensemen and quick is not only foot speed.

    I have played against some big men who were soooo slow and also played against some big men who were quick in everything they did.
    They think quick, quick sticks and had the puck off you before you knew it. They were not always the fastest skaters but could move that puck real quick. That allowed their forwards to break a lot faster and move into the offensive zone as a unit creating scoring changes.

  32. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes:
    Luongo is the best goalie in the League with a wife from the polar opposite end of the league roadmap. He'll be a UFA and back in the East by July 2, 2010. Trade him for youth instead. Get a player, not a new draft pick (I'd be looking to send him to Toronto for Schenn, not south for Hedman.)

    May as well shrug off the pricey over 30's now, keep the Sedins (or lose them if the price is too high), and see what happens with Burrows, Kesler, Raymond and Wellwood a year older and even more ice time.

    Pay the 25 year olds more to stay and dare them to be better, instead of the 30-somethings who've proven they won't be leading you to a Cup.
  33. jim slim from cowichan valley,bcvan, Canada writes: Well this Canuck crew can't get it done and some tinkering is in order.

    Me, I like the point made in the story that says you just can't take one twin - you gotta take em both! Wtf? Is it written in stone as in their contracts? If that's the case get Burkie on the phone. That A-hole will love to take them back. He can afford 'em. He's responsible for them being here anyway. They can cycle and spin in Toronto; and the Leafs will be the new Vancouver.
  34. don diego from Canada writes: Straight Goods - A quick puck mover and and "quick" player are not the same. I totally agree that without quick puck movers, the offense suffers.

    The problem is this: with $7M in goal, there's only so much you can do with the defence. I'm all for upgrading defensively, but then Luongo needs to be traded and a cheaper version needs to be brought in.

    Here's a fun game - would you rather have Bouwmeester with Schneider in net, or Luongo with Hal Gill, because you can't have both (damn cap!)
  35. Keith Loh from Vancouver, Canada writes: I don't understand the Sedin hatred. They have actually developed their game beyond the cycling standard that they are known for. This year both of them have been able to score on the rush when in previous years they looked like they didn't know what to do on a two-on-one. In the playoffs they have been able to play under a lot of punishment and are legitimate first-liners. With the addition of Burrows their line finally had some grit and clutch. Speaking of which Burrows basically disappeared in this series; perhaps that was one of the missing elements, not the inability of the Sedins. Some of the only times the Hawks were back on their feet was when the Sedins were able to setup. But that relies on forechecking and that is the job of people like Burrows. Rypien actually impressed me some; if he gets some offensive time I'd like to see if he has Kesler type potential.
  36. C. Welsh from Vancouver, Canada writes: To start with, I think the coach did as good a job as he could, given the troops he had. He knows how to coach 2-way play effectively. So keep AV. All I would ask is that he curtail the Canuck's obsession with clearing up the boards. No other team I follow seems to clear up the boards as much as the Canucks. It cost them many goals in the playoffs (when they refused to skate it out themselves up a deserted middle). Most teams seems to know that parking two players in the offensive zone points will give them the Canuck's puck.

    Keep Luongo, too, unless you can get some players who fill key gaps.

    The forwards are OK, but obviously Sundin is gone, and perhaps so to is (or should be) Demitra, who had a decent second half of the reg. season but disappeared in the playoffs. Like Salo, his injury-prone nature needs to be factored into his salary and possible return. Wellwood is up and down, but his lack of speed became apparent as the Chicago series wore on. The lack of a seasoned power forward is really obvious. In the first round, it was clear we could have used Keith Tkachuk; Sundin wasn't the answer. I'd keep the Sedins; their numbers are too consistent to ignore, and most teams would dream of such production. Are they worth $6.5 million each? Not sure. Other role players will probably step up: Raymond, for example, might gain some softer hands to complement his fast feet. And Hodgson will help.

    The defence, as most people have pointed out, needs repair. But let's be clear: they were built to combat a team like Anaheim, not Chicago. They are fairly strong (with an admitted predilection for look checks), but their lack of speed, and esp. lateral speed, is really obvious now. Ohlund can go. His speed has really dropped in the last few years. I think Salo is their best D-man when he's healthy, but we all know what that means. Two more puck moving D-men, to provide a balance of strength and speed, is the GM's biggest need this summer.
  37. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: K C from Vancouver, Canada writes: I can't wait to see Cody Hodgson in a Canucks uniform.
    ===
    Well KC, certainly hope it isn't immediately. Do him good to become one of the top 5 Moose scorers for 4/5 months. And NEVER think for a second KC that he would be the BIG TOP point getter down on the farm.

    This kid is going to be a GREAT ONE but not for 3/4 yrs. For he is just a 19 yr old boy, that would be totally dominated by 30 yr old men right now. Please no more Cam Neilly mistakes by rushing Hodgson in too early only to almost destroy the kid (ie like Neilly was).
  38. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: Rick C:
    Don't see how you can really say the Sedins "folded like a wet paper bag." They scored 2 goals in a must-win game, and were among the few flickers of hope in the dying minutes. The Sedins did exactly what they are paid to do. No realistic observer should expect the twins to win a Cup all on their own. Canucks' grit is supplied by Kesler, Burrows, Bernier, Hordichuk, and Rypien - not the Sedin twins.

    If Daniel and Henrik Sedin threw hard checks and a few punches like some people seem to request from them in addition to consistently scoring a point-per game, they would be better than Jarome Iginla and Joe Thornton and would each be getting $7 to $9 Million. Ain't gonna happen. Sedins are playmakers and goal scorers, one notch below elite status.
  39. Jan Triska from Ottawa, Canada writes: Vancouver is not a bad team at all. They went into the 2nd round of play-offs and took Chicago to 6 games. Not bad at all.
    - They are also not a great team and that's what you need to be these days in order to make the final four of the Stanley Cup.
    -I feel as though Luongo held them in there, and as though the Sedin twins did all they could offensively. In the end, Chicago showed more speed, grit and probably more talent as far as moving the puck. Mind you, the differences were slight.

    There are only about five teams in the NHL this season that have what it takes to mount a credible challenge for the Cup: The Red Wings, the Penguins, the Capitals, Boston Bruins... and Chicago. Carolina surprised a few folks along the way, as did Anaheim. Everyone else is, as harsh as it sounds, an also-ran. Doesn't mean they are bad teams, or teams in need of rebuilding. But they are not legitimate top contenders.
  40. d p from writes: Dump Sundin and Demitra. Sign Bouwmeester and bring up a few more young speedy guys from the Manitoba Moose. They are still in the playoffs. They might actually win a championship and winners might be good for the locker room.

    Trade Luongo if he does not want to stay.

    And be realistic. Chicago might be very good for the next five years.

    Being Vancouver against Chicago in this era might be like being Calgary during the Oiler glory days. Calgary was very good, but most of the time the Oilers were better. They were a dynasty. Chicago might have the talent to be one too.

    Detroit vs Chicago might be the series where we see the torch passed. If not, perhaps next year.
  41. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: jim slim from cowichan valley,bcvan, Canada writes: "...and the Leafs will be the new Vancouver." Do you mean the Leafs could provide entertaining exciting hockey that gives their fans a real hope of success? That would be a big, early achievement for Brian Burke.
  42. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes:

    "Ain't gonna happen. Sedins are playmakers and goal scorers, one notch below elite status."

    Yes but they want elite money; $7M per season. They just aren't worth that kind of cake. Not when they are 1 dimensional players.
  43. R. Canuck from Canada writes: Young exciting team beats older not so exciting team. Canucks will be a year older next year and if you can't beat the younger team now you better plan for some changes. Darn shame, with the last Canadian team eliminated there is nothing left to cheer for. That is bad news for TSN and the Corp. Let the golf season begin...if it would just warm up....
  44. don diego from Canada writes: Rick C - the twins may want that kind of money, but no one's going to give it to them. It's a starting point. Don't be surprised if they take the home town discount, plus the opportunity to play together, and settle for around high $5M for 4 years each. They know with the cap dropping in the coming years that this represents security, something both are looking for.

    Plus, what's a few miilion bucks between friends?
  45. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Captain Apollo from Canada writes: If Burke tries to sign the Sedins he should be fired immediately. They're way to soft. There's much better players out there at the same price.

    Name one, let alone two.

    The Sedins have already paid a heavy financial price for liking Vancouver and wanting to play together. Their 3.575 million a year for three year contracts that will expire on July 1 have been almost obscenely low for the production they provided.

    They are worth 6.5 million a year minimum wherever they sign, and I hope they do not settle for less, If they do it just feeds the ignoramuses who do not recognize that they are, and have been, elite players for the last three years, and will continue to be so.

    If they are ever complemented with a legitimate top six forward, something they have never had in Vancouver, their numbers will be even more impressive
  46. Ed Long from Canada writes: How many goals were scored by Hawks who skated out, untouched, from behind the Canuck's net or cruised through the slot, untouched.
    ?

    The Canucks could not keep up with Chicago speed and aggressiveness.

    New young big mean defencemen. Did anybody notice how many hits Campbell of the Hawks absorbed yet still make the long outlet pass or lead a rush himself. That is the template for a defenceman.

    Oh ... you also need very fast and fearless forwards who will skate over anybody deep into offensive zone.

    The Hawks are a young Wings. If no finals this year, next for sure.
  47. J B from Fort St. John, Canada writes: I thought it was bad enough Saturday, when the fans littered the ice at the end of what turned out to the Canucks last home game, but most of you guys are brutal! Don't get hurt jumping off the bandwagon.

    Why all the harsh words for the current team? Only Jasper the Black Lab has any thing constructive to add. Who was so sure this team was a lock for the Cup? And who do you think is going to want to play in Vancouver if they "blow-up" the team?

    Sure cut Sundin loose and try to get a few players in on the long-term cheap deals like Detroit has done. The core of a good team is here, give Gillis a chance to shape it into his team.
  48. don diego from Canada writes: Sure Ed - got an extra $7M in your pocket, cuz that's what Campbell makes. Oh, and there's a grand total of 5 others in the league that I would put in his ability level - think other teams might want one too?

    The reality of the cap is you have to make sacrifices somewhere in your lineup. Canucks (in theory) did it up front this year, although Chicago certainly showed our backend problems. As someone else previously mentioned, this team was not built to take on a team with that kind of speed. It was meant to grind out wins against other bashers (Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose). Instead of using their strength and grinding down the Hawks the Canucks decided to get into a footrace with them - game over. Hopefully lesson learned.
  49. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: This article notes that;

    In a year when a team is just as likely to advance deep down the Stanley Cup trail with a Jonas Hiller or a Simeon Varlamov as its goaltender - or even the much-abused Chris Osgood - the notion that you need a Luongo, a Martin Brodeur or a Miikka Kiprusoff to bar the door may be re-examined around the NHL.

    Here are the rankings (combined ga avg and SV%), as of the completion of play on May 11, of the eight goaltenders in the second round of the playoffs. And of their salaries (cap space hit).

    Thomas 1.100 million
    Hiller 1.300 million
    Ward 2.607 million
    Osgood 1.417 million
    Varlamov 0.155 million (Rookie contract)
    Luongo 6.75 million
    Khabibulin 6.75 million
    Fleury 5.00 million

    The combined salaries for the top 5 are less than the 6.750 million that Luongo and Khabibulin each make.

    That is pretty compelling evidence that the way to reach the playoffs, and to succeed, is NOT to spend your cap space money on goaltenders.

    And that doesn't include the fact that the teams with the two highest paid goaltenders in the league, Lundqvist and Kiprusoff, were eliminated in the first round.
  50. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Sam Salmon from Vancouver-by-the-Sea, Canada writes: Vigneault has gotta go!
    ===
    Say Waaat?
    This guy (AV) has been chosen "NHL Coach of the NHL" once already.
    This guy is a proven 'Long Time' WINNER!
    But then so are all the Coaches in the Canucks system.
    The Canucks, the Moose, right down to the ECHL Victoria Salmon Kings.
    Don't give up the ship, just yet Sam--The future looks pretty good.
  51. Haywood Yasapareadime from Lotusland, Canada writes: I lost count of how many times in the last 10 minutes I said "SHOOT THE PUCK" when a Sedin was going in on net last night. I say if Burke wants them he can have them.

    Same for Ohlund. He is like Ed Jovanovski...he will help you...sure but when he hurts you he hurts you big-time.

    As for Luongo...MVP of the team. Period. Want proof? Compare their record with him and without him between the pipes this season. The only reason we are dissecting this team in May instead of April is Luongo down the stretch. Sheesh!
  52. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Please all you disappointed Canuckleheads, don't join the pack of 'Know Nothings' screaming for a Torontoized (like) dispersal of the players every time they lose.--Look at what happens to the Leafs every year after they get rid of their players off to other teams.

    Don't turn the Canucks into another Leaf give away team.
    We can't win chasing our best players out of town like they do.
  53. garth mckenzie from Canada writes: Do Canuckleheads even remember how brutal the team was when Luongo was hurt?

    Not saying he's the World's Greatest Goalie. But without Roberto, the Canucks are well out of the playoffs.
  54. Ed Long from Canada writes: don diego writes .... As someone else previously mentioned, this team was not built to take on a team with that kind of speed. It was meant to grind out wins against other bashers (Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose).

    Jan Triska answered that response earlier ...There are only about five teams in the NHL this season that have what it takes to mount a credible challenge for the Cup: The Red Wings, the Penguins, the Capitals, Boston Bruins... and Chicago. Carolina surprised a few folks along the way, as did Anaheim. Everyone else is, as harsh as it sounds, an also-ran. Doesn't mean they are bad teams, or teams in need of rebuilding. But they are not legitimate top contenders.

    And Hockeydad, much earlier ...I think it is tougher on Canadian teams in a way, it is easier in the US to churn and burn. The cycle is more acceptable. Look at Pittsburg and how the current team was built. Philly had a crash and burn year with a great rebuild. LA coming out of the bottom with some excellent young players. The new NHL model appears to be either Detroit where your continuity makes you attractive ie Hossa, and players are willing to take a home town discount to play on a winner, or, cheap and young and develop as a group, with key vets. Chicago is the best current example of that. Are the fans willing to accept that model, well, they may have no choice as Toronto is finding out.

    And I say, the league, which is the owners, need a competitive product in American centres for all of them to make money. Any team will draw a full house in Canada. Guess where the talent will be distributed?

    There has not been a Canadian Cup winner since 1993. Bettman took over in 1994.
  55. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes:

    "That is pretty compelling evidence that the way to reach the playoffs, and to succeed, is NOT to spend your cap space money on goaltenders."

    There is only 1 problem with that assessment; every goalie on that list is due for a big raise.

    It's true Thomas earned $1.1M this season; next year he will earn $6M.

    Hiller has 1 more year on his existing contract at $1.3M; he'll likely get $6M or more when he resigns.

    Ward is on his 2nd contract and will make $3M next season. After which he is an RFA and will also likely be looking at $6M per or more.

    If you think you can build a winner around a revolving door in goal hedging your bet that you can come up with a Hiller or Thomas every year before they are due for a raise good luck with that.
  56. fergus macduff from United Kingdom writes: bring back trevor linden
  57. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: don diego from Canada writes:

    "Rick C - the twins may want that kind of money, but no one's going to give it to them. It's a starting point. Don't be surprised if they take the home town discount, plus the opportunity to play together, and settle for around high $5M for 4 years each."

    $5M for 4 years each? Not a chance; not even close I'm afraid.

    That's just wishful thinking. Shawn Horcoff makes more than that and the Sedins will get more than Horcoff.

    If the twins take a home town discount it would be for more like $6-6.5M and they will be looking for longer than 4 years.

    The crux of the issue though is they will demand enough money that they have to be your go to guys. They have to be able to carry a team and I don't see that from them in the playoffs.

    Did they play poorly? No. 10 Pts in 10 games each.

    However when the series was on the line Kane, Toews and Sharp made lunch meat out of them.

    Personally I don't see the Sedin twins leading any team to a Stanley Cup championship.
  58. Ed Long from Canada writes: A salary cap is simply a means to project "fairness" while the team owners distribute talent to enhance profitablility across the product.

    Bettman is fighting to stay in Phoenix because it is a big sports market that adds legitimacy to his marketing in America. Americans know Phoenix, they know diddly about Hamilton.

    The NHL does not have a "soft cap" like the NBA which has the "Larry Bird exemption" where established players can be outside the cap.

    So the NHL has a guaranteed historical Canadian market that requires little maintenance. And with the so-called cap, teams like the Canucks can say "gee, we'd like to but we have no room" .... but keep filling the stands and buying the products and watching every game on TV including PPV.

    Meanwhile, the Detroits and Chicagos and Anaheims and Pittsburghs mysteriously attract players for under market value.

    What a coincidence they are in major American markets where the fans only watch winners???

    Bettman is playing Canadian gullibility.
  59. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Rick C takes issue with my comment that:

    That is pretty compelling evidence that the way to reach the playoffs, and to succeed, is NOT to spend your cap space money on goaltenders."

    and says that 'There is only 1 problem with that assessment; every goalie on that list is due for a big raise'.

    It's true Thomas earned $1.1M this season; next year he will earn $6M.'

    I must be missing something here. What does the amount of money Thomas gets next year have to do with my point?

    Come back next year and see if a 6 million dollar Thomas improves, or hurts, the Bruins chances to win the Cup and we can talk. I do know a 6 million dollar Thomas means the Bruins will have 5 million less next year to spend on skaters.

    (Although Thomas will get 6 million next year, I think his cap hit will be only 5 million because of the way the multi year contract is structured, but that doesn't alter my point).
  60. don diego from Canada writes: Rick C - Good points about the young goalies that are due a raise. However, the one gaping hole in the equation is Osgood, playing for the team that has been the most consistently awesome (the MCA award) over the last 10 years, hands down.

    The key is to find an average goalie and lock them in around $2m. This then leaves you another $7M to sign either one world class defenceman (Pronger, Lidstrom) or two very good ones. While a fantastic goalie can stop pucks, they do nothing to contribute directly to offence (besides letting your defence wander). A brilliant defenceman, on the other hand, helps at both ends. Better bang for the buck!
  61. Ed Long from Canada writes: It was Bettman who initiated the soft salary cap system for the NBA because fans would migrate from the game if the Larry Birds, Michael Jordans, Tim Duncans, Kobe Bryant, etc were dropped by teams with limited cap space.

    I will put forward the argument that Bettman was brought into the NHL to expand the American product because the league owners did not want a replay of the 1989 Stanley Cup between Calgary and Montreal. An all Canadian Cup means no money for the owners.

    How much money??

    When Bettman joined the league in 1993, league revenues were $400 million. In 2006-2007, league revenues were over $2.2 BILLION.

    It's a business first, boys. And there is nothing like Canadians producing so much talent and paying so many dollars for anything to do with league to make American businessmen happy.
  62. Manu coli from New York, United States writes: The Sedin brothers need to be resigned. Canucks should sacrifice big salaries like Sundin and Luongo and get 2 strong and offensive defensemen. With the emergence of Kessler and Burrows, with the consistency of the Sedin, the Canucks are good for a few more years. Luongo needs to be trade for low salary young guns.

    Vigneault is not responsible for what happened yesterday, Chicago was just more skilled than Vancouver. It is the first time Vancouver has a powerful team since the tandem Burke-Crawford, no need to desesperate.
  63. Liam Smith from Canada writes: Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: jim slim from cowichan valley,bcvan, Canada writes: "...and the Leafs will be the new Vancouver." Do you mean the Leafs could provide entertaining exciting hockey that gives their fans a real hope of success? That would be a big, early achievement for Brian Burke.
    ***
    Sorry buddy but the Leafs were a more entertaining team to watch this last season than the Nucks. . . even if they did suck.
  64. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Ed Long writes:

    There are only about five teams in the NHL this season that have what it takes to mount a credible challenge for the Cup: The Red Wings, the Penguins, the Capitals, Boston Bruins... and Chicago.

    Well, one of the Penguins or Capitals will definitely not win, and Boston is on the brink of losing to a team that is not on your list, but my main point is to get on record to bring a little reality to the Chicago situation.

    Chicago finished the regular season with 104 points. They have won two rounds, with a combined 8-4 record (including 2 OT wins) while playing Calgary (98 regular season points), and Vancouver (100 regular season points).

    They have done so while giving up 2.76 goals a game, with a goalie who has a SV% of .896 in the playoffs.

    I give them a chance in the West if Anaheim beats Detroit, but none against Detroit.

    Very little in sport is a sure thing, ( see Mine that Bird) but my money to win the Cup is definitely not on Chicago.
  65. Ed Long from Canada writes: Warren .... I quoted Jan Triska.

    And I agree with him.

    Your comment, "Very little in sport is a sure thing ..."

    True, but in professional major league sport there is one sure thing .... the group of owners will make money and ensure the largest markets have viable franchises.
  66. Little Bear from Canada writes: So what happens to the cap when we let Sundin and Ohlund go?

    Warren forget about the goalkeepers what is your suggestion on the point.

    In the old days we were coached to try and make a play at the blue line. This either forced and offside or a shoot in.

    This is a good move if you have D that can skate and have lateral movement which Van did not have.

    I like the idea of bringing up a kid or two from the Moose. Sure they will make mistakes on the D but the right kid will learn fast, otherwise we stay with old and slow. NOT
  67. hangin right from Van, Canada writes: hmmm what now ? hmmm who knows but I think a few pink slips , and few holidays and some time off and some switcharoos along with some bargaining and change of tactics.
    but who knows.
  68. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes:

    "I must be missing something here. What does the amount of money Thomas gets next year have to do with my point?"

    It's simple...name the goalie next year that will get it done for the Bruins at a price of $1.1M?

    If you are the Boston GM are you going to trade Thomas and hang your hat on Rask?

    Who are the Ducks going to put between the pipes once Hiller gets his raise?

    How about Carolina? Should they ditch Ward as soon as he is due for a raise?

    In a perfect world there would be an endless line of goalies who get it done on the cheap.

    In reality they are the vast exception.

    Any goalie who consistantly performs gets paid big $$$.

    You conveniently left out the numerous Cup titles backed by Jiggy, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Hasek, Khabibulin, Richter, Barasso, etc who were all big $ goalies.

    So by all means...provide the extensive list of cheap goalies that have won a Stanley Cup in the last 30 years.

    I'll get you started...Ward and Osgood.
  69. Luke Powell from Vancouver, Canada writes: The Canucks are comitted to about $32 million for next year. That buys them 6 forwards (Demitra, Kesler, Burrows, Johnson, Hordichuk, Raymond), 4 defencemen (Edler, Salo, Bieksa, Mitchell) and 1 goalie (Luongo). If the latest reports are right, the cap will drop to somewhere around $55 million next year, leaving the Canucks with $23 million to spend on 6 or 7 forwards, 2 or 3 defencemen, and a backup goaltender. Let's assume for the moment that a) a backup goalie is going for around $1M, and b) Shane O'Brien will resign for about $1M. Now we have $21M for 8 players.

    Scenario 1: They re-sign the Sedins for $5.5M each. That's $10M remaining for 6 players. Under this scenario, they'll have to bring up Hodgson and Michael Grabner, because their rookie contracts are cheap (I think they'll be around $0.85 million, but don't quote me). They can resign Wellwood and/or Bernier to contracts in the $1.8M range and then spend the rest on the Rick Rypien/Rob Davisons of the world.

    Scenario 2a: They send the Sedins packing. With the $21 million, they can sign one big ticket FA (Bouwmeester?) or spend on good depth players (Mike Cammalleri & Francois Beauchemin?).

    Scenario 2b: They send the Sedins packing...along with Luongo, Salo, Demitra, and possibly Mitchell. They stock up on picks and prospects, playing the rebuilding card. They can use some of the freed up cash to bid on young RFAs like Cam Barker and Jiri Hudler.

    Scenario 1's probably the most likely. I supect Gillis wants scenario 2a, but the Aquilinis won't want to give up the 300 straight sellouts and possible playoff revenue just yet.
  70. Nat Pop from Canada writes: "the notion that you need a Luongo ... to bar the door may be re-examined around the NHL"
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    He gave up SEVEN GOALS in the last game, and 23 in total, for an average of almost 4 goals a game. And the last goal in the last game was on a weak backhander. This with a pretty decent and defence oriented team in front of him.

    He is a very good goalie, but he needs to elevate his game considerably before being in a position to make demands and dictate conditions.
  71. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: fergus macduff from United Kingdom writes: bring back trevor linden
    ===
    The 'NEW Trevor' is almost here Fergus.
    His name is Cody Hodgson--
    And right now he is with the Moose, playing in the Calder semi-finals.

    Well there is only one Trevor a century, but Cody might become his almost 'Near Clone' after 3/4 years, if he's lucky.
  72. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: don diego from Canada writes:

    "Rick C - Good points about the young goalies that are due a raise. However, the one gaping hole in the equation is Osgood, playing for the team that has been the most consistently awesome (the MCA award) over the last 10 years, hands down."

    Osgood is the one anomaly. Home town discount essentially because no one else wanted him. Poor reg season stats didn't help his cause either.

    The Red Wings previous Cups were won with Hasek and Vernon; neither were cheap.

    If you look at the list of Stanley Cup winning goalies none of them was average.

    At best you get a break with a young goalie like Ward or Detroit gets Osgood.

    Locking in an 'average' goalie for $2M hasn't worked for anyone but Detroit...and even for the Red Wings it has only worked once.
  73. don diego from Canada writes: Rick C - you can't compare the Hasek and Vernon years, as that was precap, as were every one of your other examples. These no longer apply. Since the cap was instituted:

    05/06: Carm Ward - $684k
    06/07: Giggy - $900k
    07/08: Osgood - $1.7M

    I think this prooves my point, no?
  74. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Rick C writes:

    'You conveniently left out the numerous Cup titles backed by Jiggy, Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Hasek, Khabibulin, Richter, Barasso, etc who were all big $ goalies

    So by all means...provide the extensive list of cheap goalies that have won a Stanley Cup in the last 30 years'

    I have no idea what the goalies made going back 30 years, and I suspect you don't either, your comments notwithstanding. But I do know the NHL didn't have a salary cap until the 2005-2006 season, so what goalies made before 2005-2006 is irrelevant to my argument.

    In 05-06 the Cup finalist goalies were Ward (41st highest paid goalie) and Roloson (18th highest).

    In 06-07 the Cup finalist goalies were Hasek ( 44th highest paid) and Giguere (10th).

    In 07-08 the Cup finalist goalies were Osgood (51st highest paid) and Fleury (32nd).

    Next?
  75. don diego from Canada writes: Thanks for helping to prove my point Warren.

    Don't get me wrong, I have a HUGE man crush on Bobby Lu, but the reality of the salary cap era is you either have a great goalie with little defence or an average goalie with great defence.

    Having to choose, I take the latter, which at least provides the opportunity to help the offence as well.
  76. don diego from Canada writes: ...or in other words, would you rather Osgood and Lidstrom, or Luongo and O'Brien?
  77. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Hap Stokes writes"

    Well there is only one Trevor a century, but Cody might become his almost 'Near Clone' after 3/4 years, if he's lucky.

    Let us fervently pray that you are wrong.

    The real Trevor Linden, not the mythical Trevor Linden, scored 867 points and was a minus 64 in his NHL career.

    After he reached the ripe old age of 25 his highest scoring years were 47, 41, 40, and 38.
  78. L M87 from Calgary, Canada writes: Skill is winning! We all said it after the competition committee had several ideas implemented. Look at the teams that are winning now. Chicago, Detroit, Penguins, Caps. All mobile, all highly skilled teams. Even the skill of Eric Staal has a defensive team like Boston on the ropes. The New Jersey model for winning Stanley Cups, aka the trap, worked well in the regular season, but pitted against skill in a 7 games series... bet on skill. The Detroit model for building a winner is the way to go. Chicago has achieved this model and are reaping the rewards. Two highly skilled superstars, supported by skilled players, some grit, some role players and a defense that can move the puck that has a couple of guys that can be nasty as well.
  79. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: L M87 from Calgary, Canada writes:

    "The Detroit model for building a winner is the way to go."

    There is no one model that is the way to go.

    Detroit, Anaheim, Carolina, Tampa Bay...all built differently yet all Stanley Cup champions.

    All that matters is winning.

    How you do it is irrelevant and there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
  80. don diego from Canada writes: EEEEAASSSY Warren - you're treading on some delicate ground... ;)

    Stats can be misleading at the best of times (have you seen Glenn Anderson's numbers?), but please remember a number of Trevor's seasons were on BRUTAL teams (who else names a kid as captain with piles of veterans on the team?).

    Put him on any number of other teams and he'd easily be over 1000 points, and probably mentioned as a HOF candidate.
  81. don diego from Canada writes: Rick C - I respectfully disagree:

    All 3 post lockout teams had the following:

    1. Cheap goaltending (as previously mentioned) - helps fill other spots.
    2. One lockdown defensive pairing.
    3. Cheap rookies that provide offense (Staal, Getzlaf / Perry, about 5 for Detroit).
    4. Quality scoring and leadership from veterans (Brind' Amour, Selanne, Lidstrom).

    Seems pretty consistent to me.
  82. Frank Green from Vancouver, Canada writes: Mike Gillis has been a disaster for the Canucks. He inherited a pretty good team from Nonis and Burke and did what he could to destroy it. The two biggest anchors on the Canucks this season were brought in by Gillis (Demitra and Sundin). It took Sundin how many months to decide if he even wanted to play and that wasn’t Gillis’s first clue that he was dealing with a wingnut? Ownership with no hockey experience hiring a GM with no managing experience will turn out to be a huge problem.
  83. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: don diego from Canada writes: "Rick C - you can't compare the Hasek and Vernon years, as that was precap, as were every one of your other examples. These no longer apply." Ok...we'll completely ignore history. Jiggy was making $3.99M not $900K. Only 10th in goalie salaries but still not cheap. I don't deny that having a cheap goalie is a benefit. However to suggest signing 'average' goaltending I don't agree with. Tampa Bay tried that; seen the results lately? Ward and Fleury were on their rookie contracts. Similar situation to Anaheim winning the Cup largely due to Getzlaf and Perry being a bargain on their rookie contracts. So elite rookies definitely give a team a big edge. Columbus tried that approach but were swept in the 1st round. Hasek and Osgood are both exceptional goalies who took massive discounts to play for the Red Wings; neither are average. You know what I notice about all of them with the exception of Osgood. Not cheap anymore. In two seasons or less Ward is the cheap one at $3M next season and he'll be up in the $6M range the year after. It's lightening in a bottle. Great when you get it but not a long term strategy unless you feel like a new goaltender every year or two.
  84. melissa wiebe from Canada writes: Frank,
    How many seasons did Burke or Nonis actually make the playoffs? If I remember correctly, they only made it four seasons and only once did they make it out of the first round.

    You can't judge a GM by one season; it takes a number of years to judge how a GM manages a team and with more experience, Gillis will get better.

    And for those calling for AV's head, your not going to get it; he has another year on his contract.
  85. warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: don diego from Canada writes: EEEEAASSSY Warren - you're treading on some delicate ground... ;)

    Stats can be misleading at the best of times (have you seen Glenn Anderson's numbers?),

    I have indeed, but I am not sure what you mean. His 498 goals, 1099 points, plus 201, 6 Stanley Cups justify his HOF status.

    Are you suggesting he wasn't as good as his stats? I am old enough that I saw many of Anderson's games and at the time I never thought he was anything less than an elite player.
  86. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: warren standerwick
    Cheers Warren
    What I meant by the 'Cloning' comment was, that in this pro sports era of 'Dog Fighting', Steroids, Guns and just about anything nutty and Kraazee you can name--Trevor Linden, set the bar pretty high for being Mr Nice Guy, Mr Generosity, Mr Modesty, Mr Leader and maybe one of the most liked and respected players in the entire NHL. Well Chris Chelios and several other NHL players won't agree. Because of the deal Trevor and the Players Assn. worked out during the Lock-Out.--But other than that, he was very highly respected. Especially by the hated Flames led back on the ice from their room by their great CAPTAIN Ignala to shake Trevors's hand the night he retired.

    Now if Cody Hodgson scores 50 goals every year for the next 15 years, that still won't surpass Trevor Linden giving Terminal Patients in the Childrens Hospital several visits every month. And I'll bet those poor grieving parents of those now deceased children agree with me fully Warren.
  87. don diego from Canada writes: Rick, again cheap goaltending is just part of the equation, not the entire answer.

    As for lightening in a bottle, of course that true, but that's what any team is hoping for! When you pay your goalie $7M, you're praying that he can bring that every night in the playoffs - just look at last night's game for what happens when they're not on...

    On the other hand, if you aren't banking on ONE player to carry you in the most exposed position, then your chances for success increase. Detroit doesn't expect Osgood to stand on his head every night, but it's obviously great when he does! (BTW, I would hardly call Osgood "exceptional" - good quality, yes) All other nights you're just hoping for him to make all the normal saves, and let the rest of the team do their job.

    Look at the won / loss record for the Canucks with / without Luongo - the team is average at best without him. That's an amazing amount of pressure to put on ONE player, let alone a goalie. Let's be honest, it's all about which goalie is hot in the playoffs, and history shows that's just as likely to be a rookie as a 10 year veteran.
  88. don diego from Canada writes: Warren - I think I could have scored 50 goals for the Oilers in the 80s!

    Yes, I saw them play as well, and I'm certainly not saying Glenn wasn't a solid player, but slot Trevor in on that team during the hayday and I don't think his numbers would be any different than Anderson's.
  89. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: don diego from Canada writes:

    "Let's be honest, it's all about which goalie is hot in the playoffs, and history shows that's just as likely to be a rookie as a 10 year veteran."

    Really? Because Dryden, Roy and Ward are the only rookie goaltenders to ever win the Stanley Cup.

    So history has actually shown it's considerably more likely to be a veteran goalie who wins the Cup than a rookie.
  90. Someone Here from Canada writes: Game 5 of the series may have turned out better (and possibly changed the results of the series) if Willie Mitchell didn't have the nasty habit of banging his stick on the ice. I think that game was blown when he broke his stick, and he looked like he was protecting his family jewels more than preventing a goal! Luongo was awesome through the whole series, but had problems when there was a cluster in front of him. Chicago seemed to figure out that weakness and used it to their advantage.
    The 'Nucks had issues with their stick-handling, which resulted in a lot of missed opportunities. Chicago was much more precise with their passing and their stick-handling, and were basically able to skate circles around the 'Nucks.
    All in all, I think it was an exciting series. This was the first year I've cheered for Vancouver and although disappointed, I feel they could learn some valuable lessons from this and hopefully bring the cup home next year!
  91. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Ed Long from Canada :

    You keep getting it wrong !

    Scotty Bowman has ELEVEN Stanley Cups...

    NINE if you only count the ones that he has won as a head coach...

    Habs (1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979)

    Pens (1992)

    Wings (1997, 1998, 2002)

    You should also count Cup wins by the 1991 Pens and 2008 Wings where Bowman served as the Director of Player Personel for those teams...

    So, it's ELEVEN Cup rings so far for Bowman...

    Please don't make me correct you on this point again...

    Cheer up, Canuckle heads !

    Two words : Cody Hodgson !

    Slainte Mhath
  92. dan vanman from Canada writes: I said on another thread that the Hawks speed exposed the Canucks slowness in the back. So, an upgrade in that is needed there...sorry Olie...luv ya bud...but here's your time to go...thx again.

    The posters that compared Loungo to Clouts' are on something. I swear. Like comparing a Ferrari to a Mini. Where is Clouts now again? In the league?

    Please.

    Keep the Sedins-probably 5.75-6.0/4 yr

    Sundin-Hows that place in the West End? Come on bud,think about it.Walking to the rink for the 2010 games.Just think about it for now. We know you like to take your time.

    Hodgson is on the farm to start the year, unless he burns it up. Which he just might. He makes the team out of camp and earns it...then yes,if not,1st line centre on the Moose.

    There are some good young D' down in Manitoba,their names escape me ( exactly!HAH), but just consider that the Moose are still playing, are they not? And lets not forget Grabner will be given every chance to make the team,and finally looks worthy lately.

    So, for the 4th best overall points record, lets not burn down the house just yet.

    Sign J-Bo, A mercenary forward or two.

    And go back to the dance with Luongo on a mission.

    Peace
  93. jim slim from Canada writes: @ Ed Long, thx for the best posts on this thread, you think of the Big Picture like no one else. Very astute observations there Ed.

    And they tear away all the clutter to expose the meat of the issues.

    Vaya Con Huevos

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