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Don't blame your wife, keep tabs on her boss

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Don't blame your wife, keep tabs on her boorish boss ...Read the full article

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  1. Tom G from Canada writes: Oh, yes, but of course. It's her boss, she has no choice but to reply. It's the power dynamic, she needs to placate the neanderthal. Jeez, what is this the 1980s? She's the victim and the bad boss is the aggressive and implacable foe? It takes two to tango--that is, unless the boss is an absolute nut. Oh, yes...he must be...he's a guy! WTF?
  2. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Some seriously bad advise here. If it were me, I'd talk to my wife pronto and ask to be kept in the loop thereafter. I'd make clear that I want no more of this.

    Here's the thing. Its always inappropriate, but its only harassment if the boss doesn't have reason to believe that its unwelcome. This is private, not public communication. What evidence does he have that your wife isn't a willing participant? If that's what's being said on text, what's being said in person?

    Get a pair man! This is your wife. There are several possible ends to this, and none of them are happy for your marriage if this continues.
  3. Zhimmy Kanata from Canada writes: Let's be honest here buddy! What is really wrong here is that the money your wife's boss pays her is more important to you then your marriage. If it were me I would have her out of there and have filed a sexual harrassment suit against him faster then it took me to type this!
  4. George Nikitin from Hamilton, Canada writes: I think the husband should consider himself lucky her employer isn't insisting on his traditional feudal right.
  5. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: 'Maybe she feels neglected.'

    WTF??? Suddenly it's the husband's fault that the wife is making the choice to respond - albeit non-provocatively - to her boss's suggestive contacts?

    Claudia, give your head a shake. Your advice is just so very wrong it's hard to know where to begin.

    For me personally, I'd be very clear with my wife: This stops today. Right now. There is no room for discussion. While she may not be able to stop her boss from continuing the suggestive emails/texts/whatever, she has a choice whether to respond to them or not. The choice she must make, if she is to save her marriage, is to refrain from responding. There is no middle ground here.

    As far as the boss goes, I (if I were her husband) would meet him man-to-man, in a very civilized fashion, and tell him that his attention is unwelcome and that it is to stop immediately. Further contact in that manner will mean an immediate sexual harassment complaint. No further warning, no second chance, no middle ground.
  6. Unabashed Opinion from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow! I agree that there is a serious misreading of this situation. The fact that there are multiple responses back and forth, and that this is obviously an ongoing and mutually enjoyable pattern means that the wife is relishing the attention and innuendo. Boss or not, if this were unwanted by the Mrs. she would not be responding by playing into extending the game. Her response would more likely be something like 'busy now. talk later. bye' The message to hubby is pretty clear: 'He mks me feel like a desirble wmn. c u l8r.'
  7. Auroran Bear from Montreal, Canada writes: Beat the snot out of him.
  8. J. Madison from Toronto, Canada writes: I think it's very odd that the boss feels safe to make such innuendo. Whatever you may or may not have found on the phone, your wife has given him permission to speak to her this way, through her actions or words.
  9. Boner in Sweatpants from Joe Mama, Canada writes: Sounds like sexual harassment to me.
  10. Rollo 8>) from Belgium writes:

    Sounds like the smoking gun, dude. Your marriage is in the toilet.

    I didn't hear anything about kids, so, dissolving the marriage would be my intention, if I were in your shoes.

    If she tries to beg this weekend, let her try, you're only human.

    Talk to a lawyer on Monday regardless.
  11. M j from Canada writes: Harassment my butt. It's obviously an affair at some level. That the boss would ask 'r u alone?' implies that they are sharing something secret.
  12. Ten To One from Canada writes: This made me sick to read, these types of texts are how I caught my wife engaging in an affair with one of her bosses. You need to ask yourself what might be further elaborated upon in emails between these two? When she is texting does she telly you it is with her boss or one of her friends? The types of ongoing communication described in her texts, which may not be sexually suggestive on her part, does suggest the need of an interpersonal rapport outside of working hours that just doesn't pass the smell test.

    If she is seeking this because she feels neglected, cut it off and move on, you will never be enough for her - she does not care enough about you to tell you how she feels.
  13. The Wight from Canada writes: CYA.

    Get a new bank account she has no clue about. Put aside enough to cover a DD and first month's rent in your local rental market, enough to fill a moderate sized fridge and enough to get your basic utilities started. If things escalate and you suspect duplicity, then add to that by buying basic plates, pots, silverware, bedding, cheap bed, etc. and put it all into storage.

    If the worst happens, you take 1/2 your shared bank account, minus the mystery account, shut off every utility that has your name on it, and walk.

    If things turn around and the issue with the boss blows over, then you've got a nice donation of goods to a local charity and enough money for a romantic holiday for the two of you.
  14. Joyce Smith from Canada writes: The boss is a pig.
  15. M M from Barrie, Canada writes: This one is simple ... talk to her calmly about it. If she is likewise uncomfortable with it, and just needs some support to tell him to stop or face a sexual harrassment complaint, then do just that. If she doesn't see it as a problem, then take it as a clear message. If you don't mind her flirting and trust that it won't go any further than innocent car-fixing flirting, then that is the end of it; otherwise, get ready to pack your bags.
  16. Bill McDonald from Canada writes: BRAVO!... Outstanding responses. Granted, there are only 15, but for the first time in memory, I agree with every single one.... The advise was nothing short of complete balderdash.... At the very least, the wife is having an emotional affair. At the worst, it is physical.... For those that may argue innocence, the fact that she has chosen to keep such damaging information from her husband is a damning indictement of her actions. My advice would be as follows:.... 1. Prepare for the worst. Seperate bank accounts, advice from a lawyer....... 2. Gather information. A key logger, a voice activated recorder, possibly a private investigato...r. 3. Confront....but only once you have enough info...If the husband wants to stay married....then.... 4. Immediate marriage counselling with a counsellor that specializes in Infidelity. Obviously....absolutely no further contact with the Boss.... 5. She must leave the job....immediately. Or, her Boss must leave. No middle ground. What is more important - job or marriage?... The wife has crossed a line in the sand. This is a life, and marriage, changing experience. Wanting it to 'go away' won't make it so. She is enjoying a fantasy, devoid of the usual pitfalls of a marriage - bills, in-laws, medical issues, kids ect, ect. Drastic and immediate action must be taken.... By the way....for those who are experiencing this....the is a great site called survivinginfidelity dot com.
  17. Ground Working from Canada writes: ' J. Madison from Toronto, Canada writes: I think it's very odd that the boss feels safe to make such innuendo. Whatever you may or may not have found on the phone, your wife has given him permission to speak to her this way, through her actions or words.'

    Bingo. In my opinion (which isn't professional), there is absolutely 100% no way in the world that this comment gets sent from somebody who has no reason to send it. 'R U alone? I need my tires pumped up' is 100% not the kind of comment that someone sends as sexual harassment. If it were something like 'Why don't you come over' etc, then I could see it. But this comment is written by someone who presumes for probably good reason that your wife is the person that they should inform about their need to have their tires pumped up.
  18. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: I agree with some above. Not time for divorce yet, but time to insist that it stop. Make it clear to your wife that it has to stop. Suggest that she remind her boss that she's a married woman and that she's now 'busted'. Expect a follow up apology from the boss. An adult man should NEVER talk or text a married woman in that fashion.

    What if she says no, or if it continues? Missing information: where does she work? Most workplaces have a harassment policy which would make this sort of conversation whether verbal or in text (text is better, as there's proof) evidence of gross misconduct on the part of the boss, whether or not the wife invites or participates. This is so due to the power imbalance involved.

    Implication? If she won't play ball, or if it doesn't stop, don't talk to the wretch in question. Talk to HIS boss. Consider talking to a lawyer, at this juncture, in any case.
  19. The Natrix from Toronto, Canada writes: If I were the husband, I would just forward those emails to the Bosse's Boss, CEO, HR and a major newspaper.

    Ask the wife if she wants to be included in those emails, or delete her responses (which then would mean she would stop for good)
  20. Erik Richards from Winnipeg, MB, writes: I agree with many of the above. If this woman is almost certainly having a physical affair with her boss. If not, she has definitely thought about it, although she might not be willing to actually take that step.

    The first email the husband saw is unlikely the first text she has received. The fact that her boss feels comfortable enough to send her such texts means she is an active participant in at least 'sexting', if not more.

    While we only have one snippet of one side of the conversation, this sounds more like chat between lovers than unwanted harassment. This is out of the bedroom flirting, and it's pretty obvious at that. I'm not saying harassment doesn't exist, it does and I'm sure it's uncomfortable. But here's a bit of advice to those who are on the receiving end of such harassment: don't encourage it with innuendo, thinking it will go away. That's like putting fuel on the fire. If you don't want to play the game, a simple 'no' or ignoring it is the way to deal with such comments.
  21. Brian . from Edmonton, Canada writes: The advice in this column must have been made with tongue in cheek or as some insanely politically correct lure to get the real advice from the comments. It is the most naive postmodern reversal of reality imaginable. I actually think this letter is made up because NO man is stupid enough to think his wife isn't already getting a leg over here.
  22. Mom Ottawa from Ottawa, Canada writes: They are having an affair or will eventually. What job is worth this? The wife obviously like it or she'd have done something to stop it.
  23. Fake Name from Canada writes: So let's get this straight ... 'emotional cheating' is as bad as a real affair when it's the guy doing it, and he's a Bad Person.

    But when it's the wife, she's just looking for some excitement because the husband isn't doing enough to keep her interested.

    I shouldn't really have expected any different from the steaming pile of misandry and double-standards that passes for advice on this page, I suppose.
  24. Susan Cain from Brampton On, Canada writes: Joyce Smith... the boss is a pig, and the wife is?...
    Sounds like most of the responses are in full agreement that maybe this is not as innocent as the husband would like to think. There are some very good responses and advice that the husband should take seriously. If he is still prepared to try and salvage the marriage then hey do that you don't throw years of marriage out the door because of a mistake. Get counciling, communicate. If your spouse does not seem willing then do as one suggested prepare for the worst separate bank accounts get a lawyer etc. I wish you all the best.
  25. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: Handle the situation however you see fit.

    First I would tell my wife you discovered the texts and see how she responds. She might be having an affair or she might be afraid to lose her job.

    Be prepared for the inevitable question of why you were looking at her text archives.

    Second I would be very direct with wife's boss. There is only two ways it can go down.

    a) He stops sending my wife texts
    b) He gets his a$$ handed to him on a plate.
  26. Alberta Dennis Notso,redneck from Canada writes: The husband should phone the wife's boss and tell him he does not appreciate the suggestive text. Plainly leave her alone or suffer the consequences.
  27. Peter from Toronto from Canada writes: The idea that stopping the 'harassment' is bad for her job is pretty hard to agree with these days. The texts are evidence and a very legitimate cause for action against her boss if she so chose to do. Stopping this behaviour would be much more likely to be bad for his career not hers, particularily if he did not take the rejection well. The female is always the victim assumption here is not particularily justified. The fact that the wife has not disclosed this to her husband suggests the texts are not entirely unwanted even if she is not willing to go further. No marriage is so strong that we won't take interest in others or enjoy their attention, however the line between faithful and unfaithful is crossed when we don't take steps to stop an inappropriate relationship from starting with someone else. Sharing this with her husband would have been the most appropriate action before following her company's protocol for sexual harassment would be second (1. tell the boss it is unwelcome 2. if that doesn't do the trick, then start escalating up). Sexual harrasment policy generally tries to give the offender the chance to recognise his (or her) advances are not welcome before actions become punative. Sorry but by not doing this she is leading the boss (and me) to believe his advances are not entirely unwelcome.
  28. Laser Envy from Canada writes: How can this possibly be the husband's fault? If he sent text messages to another woman and asked her to help him masturbate, would it be the wife's fault?
  29. To The Point from United States writes:

    This is a no-brainer.

    Step 1. Woman starts documenting her own texting back clear requests such as 'Please keep the content of your emails purely business - I do not understand what you mean by 'pump the tire' or 'get some tea bags' etc.'

    Step 2. If the boss continues to send such material in spite of your multiple documented requests for him to stop, then launch a sexual harassment lawsuit seeking damages. At that point you own the boss and his company.

    Note: If, after step 1, the boss talks about firing you, then simply document that and proceed to the last half of step 2 without delay.

    Really, this is a no-brainer.
  30. Vesper Lynd from Canada writes: I don't believe for a second that an adult woman would be so concerned about her job that she participates in harassment. There are plenty of easier ways to dissuade the boss from the innuendo. This woman is at the least having an emotional affair. If it were innocent, the first step would have been telling the husband and getting his advice.
  31. Beth Flemming from Lawyer Land aka Ottawa, Canada writes:

    What the writer from the USA said.
  32. John Peterson from Canada writes: This guy feels guilty about reading her phone archives?

    There are no secrets in a marriage, I feel entirely within my rights to read my wife's emails or texts.

    As well, I disagree that this fellow should confront the wife's boss. The boss has zero responsibility to this guy - but the wife does. If the relationship with the wife is shaky, then this boss will just be replaced by some other bloke two weeks later.

    Talk to your wife, find out why she is not being direct with the boss, and also let her know that it really upsets you. If she is worth her salt, she will stop what she is doing or even quit her job, because your relationship is worth more to her.

    If not, then - well - I feel really bad for you - but she's not a keeper.

    Go confront her immediately and get to the bottom of it.
  33. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: I think the posted advice arises from insane political correctness. We've had some where I work. Similarly stuff. Some bosses being real pigs. Female underlings want to prove that they're 'man enough' to take it, so not only do they not complain, but they will actually protect the pig if anybody else seeks to intervene. Just between chums right? Proof that they're taken seriously as just another one of the guys right? WRONG! It never ends well. Never, never, never. Either something else develops, or suddenly the woman wakes up and a real chytstorm begins. Why even go there? For what its worth, both I and my wife have careers. My boss is a woman. Her boss is a man. If she's going to have lunch with a male colleague she tells me. If she thinks somebody is flirting with her, she'll tell them to stop, and invariably talks the thing through with me. Sometimes she'll even advise that she has a serious, and jealous husband who's legal test is -- 'will a court convict me?'. Answer is, for calling out, and otherwise harassing some worm who harassed my wife -- never! Not if it contains one husband. Further, she gets an email from an old boyfriend, and she cc's me with the response. Issue is that she's my wife. Let me assure you that I respond with the same courtesy. If I'm going to have lunch with a female colleague, she knows. If its drinks after work, she's invited, or she knows when I'm coming home. More often that this, a couples invitation to our house is involved. If I find a colleague attractive, there is no lunch, there are no drinks, there is no invitation, period. I get a letter from an old girlfriend, and I give it to her unopened. It goes in the garbage unread. So it goes, in marriage. You owe your spouse that. Part of fidelity is refusing to participate in an environment in which infidelity could occur.
  34. Mark Mywords from Canada writes: One thing is certain. This husband is a first class wimp. He needs to ask what to do?

    Confront your wife and ask her what the hell is going on. Don't try to dance around the issue which, by the way, is not about your wife's little texting habit but about the strength and quality of your marriage. You better root out your wife's feelings and commitment to your marriage if you want peace of mind in the longer term.
  35. M D from Canada writes: The wife is already cheating on him. Get some ballz.
  36. Book Lover from Canada writes: Winston, you're my kind of guy. My husband and I are the same. The marriage first. Anybody else starts looking good, it's time to put a little more time and effort into the marital relationship. Anybody who puts the move on either of us is no friend.
    This woman should just forward the next nasty email to the boss's wife and / or his boss, and let the chips fall.
    And the husband should not be shy - why hasn't she talked to him about this? It's a serious problem and it affects the marriage, even if it only means a change of job for her. Wake up, this is real life
  37. Latin American In Canada from Toronto, Canada writes: C'mon everyone, she is being 'BANGED' by her boss. 'r u alone, I need my tires pumped up big time”, and I do not think he is refering to his car tires.
  38. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Book Lover: My Dad was your kind of guy. I just watched and learned.
  39. Michael Motorcycle from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: If your wife was not at all interested, she just wouldn't reply to those e-mails. You've got some issues.
  40. guy tozer from saskatoon, Canada writes: Sure the boss is a pig, but she made the mistake of responding in kind to him. She should have copied the email he sent , then gone in to face him personally , and tell him it is "Not acceptable behaviour". She added fuel to the fire by responding to it in the first place. No sympathy for this woman.
  41. Dakota _ from Canada writes: Typical, blame the male. The poor little woman just doesn't know any better.
  42. Terri Timmons from Halifax, Canada writes: It seems just a bit ironic that on the same page as this advice telling this man that these suggestive e-mails are not a big deal, there is a link to a previous column called, "Cheating isn't just sweaty sex, it could be e-mails at work."
  43. D ster from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Start protecting yourself now. You may want to believe she's innocent but it doesn't seem the case. The 'r u alone' bit is telling of something extra going on here. If hasn't happened already it will. Be ready.
  44. Cut The Crap from Canada writes: She is having an affair.

    Her boss is not likely stupid enough to send these messages unless he knows they will be welcomed. In other words, she likes it. It is also not very likely that it is only emails they are sharing.

    I would not trust her any more than I'd trust her boss at this point. She didn't come forward in the marriage with the fact that her boss was doing this. This marriage is on the rocks, if not done. This guy should quietly prepare his exit, because she'll do it again.

    There are good women out there, why stick with this dead end.
  45. Arjay123 J from Canada, Canada writes: On a side note, there is a reason that we have a term called "sexual harrassment". It's because pursuing a sexual relationship through a position of authority, with threats of reprisal for non-compliance, is considered wrong.

    Given that most people don't dispute this, I don't understand why people would consider the wife's (possible) excuse that she thought she would be fired if she didn't participate as legitimate. That is not an excuse for the boss' inappropriate behaviour, because sexual harassment is wrong. Neither the wife, nor the husband should take any consideration over that line of reasoning.

    And as most people commenting believe that the wife is complicit, I must agree with them because she should be outraged by her boss' sexual harassment.
  46. Rick C from Calgary, Canada writes: To The Point from United States writes:

    "This is a no-brainer."

    The only problem is you assume the texts are unwanted by the wife.

    Given her history that doesn't seem to be the case.
  47. Erik Richards from Winnipeg, MB, writes: Arjay123 J from Canada, Canada writes: "And as most people commenting believe that the wife is complicit, I must agree with them because she should be outraged by her boss' sexual harassment."

    You can't call it sexual harassment - none of us can, because we don't know all the facts. For all we know this is a totally consensual relationship, or could have even been initiated by the woman in question.

    Harassment - sexual or otherwise - is a bad thing. Let's not dilute its severity by automatically assuming any workplace dalliance is sexual harassment. I think most people would agree it stopped being harassment the first time she made a joking or innuendo-laced reply and hit SEND.
  48. J W from Canada writes: I really don't see how anyone could condone this kind of behaviour. The wife is clearly engaging in these inappropriate emails. This alone is grounds for concern and discussion. I'd also say she has some real work to do regaining your trust. As for the boss, is he so pathetic that he has to turn to his subordinate employees for attention/to boost his ego-give me a break. Seriously, I'd recommend confronting the wife ASAP. This situation is not going to get better on its own and overtime the husband will continue to grow more suspicious and resentful.
  49. Hernando Villanueva from Andalucia, Canada writes: Magically, a copy of the email chain makes it to bosses wife, how delicious would that be?

    Followed by serving of papers on his wife contemporaneously.

    Time to cut and run muchacho...........
  50. My eyes are open, Are yours? from Canada writes: Boy, most of the posters here have already convicted the wife of full-on adultery. Maybe she didn't disclose to her husband because she (perhaps naively) thought that it would 'go away', and that if she told him he would go all Neandertal on the Boss and her. The way most of you are.

    It's not for the husband to confront the Boss; the wife is not a chattel nor a child.

    By all means the husband should sit down with the wife and find out what's going on. No apologies, but no demands that she show him all her communications either. Maybe she is afraid to lose her job in this economy.

    There are grey areas here people. Maybe she's the sole income earner in her family at the moment. Not that anyone here would believe that, because all women are scheming gold-diggers, right? Bring on Sharia law!
  51. Arjay123 J from Canada, Canada writes: Erik Richards,

    "You can't call it sexual harassment - none of us can, because we don't know all the facts. For all we know this is a totally consensual relationship, or could have even been initiated by the woman in question."

    That was my point. The fact that she is not outraged makes it very likely that she was at least complicit. Which is why Claudia's advice seems naive, or just dense.
  52. Cut The Crap from Canada writes: "My eyes are open ..."

    How typical ... poor girl was hoping all these big bad neanderthals would go away.

    Maybe you should open your mind. This girl had an infinite number of other options, including telling her husband, who's email is anything but neanderthal.

    Sharia law? No, just let this guy get away from his scheming wife. Leaving is the only dignified response a man can ever make in this society. Even then, he will probably be resoundedly criticized and ostracized for standing up for himself. But it will be better for him in the long run. A marriage without trust is the worst of all options.
  53. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: 'My Eyes Are Open'. I bet they are -- from smoking alot of grass, of the same brand as Claudia.

    She had a million options. You know what? I'm a boss. I have female employees. I have kittens at the thought of sending one of them an email, or text like that. Why? If she's not open to it, then its sexual harassment and anything digital could be reproduced as proof to, for example, my own boss.

    Sending the messages here are the acts of a confident man: confident that she doesn't mind, and confident that she won't show them to somebody who might.
  54. Tatvam Asi from Saanich, Canada writes: Bail, buddy bail - while you still have a paycheck you can call your own. Wifey likes smutty talk? - wifey can have it. Get as far away as you can. The advisor's bn reading too many Harlequins. What century is this?
  55. Jah Nee Kah Sun from Canada writes: Confront her...and duke it out with the boss
  56. BC Philosopher from Canada writes: I suggest taking a lesson from the Count of Montre Cristo, get revenge. Seek out this boss and find out the intimate details of his life. Find does he have a wife, a daughter, a sister? if so begin your move. Seduce the woman he cares about, if you have some vacation time available to you seduce all of the women he cares about. progressively work this together into a masterful scheme. Organize a huge even inviting everyone to see your glorious moment of triumph and reveal for the world not only that you had caught your wife and this foul man dancing devilishly behind your back but that you have exceeded their devilry three fold. Broadcast this on national television if at all possible.
    Theatrics are fun, anywho........

    Sounds like the wife is not an unwilling partner, as was said any boss with half a brain would be terrified in todays world to send any such text to a woman employee unless he was 300% sure it would be well recieved.
  57. travelling man from somewhere from today in Calgary, Canada writes: Winston nailed it. This guy is confident enough becuase he knows that she has something to lose by showing these messages and the other things that our Mr. X are not seeing. Further, I would bet that he has covered hit a$$ with regards to harrassment.

    Sorry Mr. X, I have been through a similar game and this one has been playing out for a while. This is a full blown affair and she is now looking for a way out. She has either had a fight with her lover or has had a change of heart. You have to decide which then decide if you can live with the past cheating or cut the ties now.
  58. No Frills from Canada writes: He's the problem, not her and not the boss.

    He has no business reading her email. If he admits reading it, she should sue him for invasion of privacy and hook up with the boss. He sounds much more secure in his own identity.
  59. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Ah, No Frills, what planet are you from?
  60. George BrownIII from Christmas Island writes: Buddy, her non committal answers were for you to read and to follow up with your conclusions. Actually you should text him for a date and take your sweet revenge. My suggestion tar and feather him.
  61. inside view from Canada writes: I'm so nervous about my marriage, I think I won't toss out - "Honey are you ever harrassed at work" - and I'll just write the globe instead.
  62. SusieQ 321 from nowhereville, Canada writes: I am not sure how you oops baby it was an accident read someone's text messages... but given he states he has.

    The wife is non committal she is not saying hey meet me at the gas station and I will pump those tires up... It may be a simple case of fear. She may have seen other people fired and trying to find another job today not always easy. HR is next to useless in most cases... every time I have tried to work with them on an issue I have heard you need to address it to your boss... in many cases that won't work when the boss is the problem. I ended up in my VP's office explaining the issue.

    I don't think the wife is naive I think she wonders what happens if I have no job? And the husband needs to say hey this is something we should sit and talk about, whats up and why?

    I love how people advocate walking out rather than dealing with the issue. People today are way to willing to walk rather than communicate.
  63. Susan Cain from Brampton On, Canada writes: SusieQ 321 you sound like you from the generation under 35, where whatever happens its always the guys fault the poor women was just a victim. You should meet my polish/canadian mother. She raised me to be independant think for myself and if somebody felt the need to disrespect me well.... Hubby could grow some as well.
  64. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: She is a willing participant. If these messages were unwelcomed, she wouldn't respond. We live in Canada, sexual harrasment laws will protect women. I don't assume that is the case here. I would recommend hubby to run far from this woman because this is behaviour that won't change with a new boss.
  65. The Majordomo of Baie Comeau from Canada writes: I know a fellow who put in his two weeks notice, and two weeks later right after his wife left for work, the moving truck came. The movers packed everything and he moved to Florida where he had a job lined up. She came home to an empty house. Tout finis
  66. B. Ramey from Canada writes: The wife is complicit but to what degree is really what he needs to find out.

    I doubt that this has anything to do with sexual harrassment.

    If the wife has to wriggle out of this she will take no prisoners. The boss deserves to be run over by the truck that will be coming his way but I don't know about the husband.

    Obviously he knew or suspected this was happening or he wouldn't have gone snooping. To play the innocent now is disingenuous. He needs to find out how much damage has been done to the marriage and whether he can trust her going forward.
  67. Nature Lover from Canada writes: I think he should mention to his wife that he read some text messages from her boss that makes him a little concerned. He can also suggest that if these interactions feel uncomforatble for her, she could cc him(her husband) when they are having these dialogues. It is a very short step to an emotional affair from this sort of behaviour, and when people "need" each other like this, it can quickly become something no one intended it to be. If she asks the boss to stop the husband should be prepared for the boss to call him up and lay a whole pile of crap about what his WIFE had been up to. It is a viciuos cycle, so if he opens this can of worms he should know that the boss may not just quietly slink away, but attempt to get a huge blow up out of it. Been there, done that. It's a predicatable pattern. He should be strong and be there for his wife, even tho this could get ugly for a while.
  68. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: It is utterly ridiculous for the husband to step in at this point and contact the third party. We are dealing with a grown woman who needs to take charge, but she won't. Instead, she chooses to participate because she is enjoying the attention.

    Hubby, pack up and find yourself a good woman.
  69. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: It is utterly ridiculous for the husband to step in at this point and contact the third party. ----------- While normally I'm happy to agree with kat i, I think in this case I have to disagree. The husband, I believe, needs to contact the "other man" for more than one reason, and none of the reasons have anything to do with protecting his "property." * The "boss" needs to know that his actions may be doing damage to the husband/wife relationship. And he needs to hear this from another male voice. * If the wife in the situation is uncomfortable with the tone and content of the boss' emails/texts/whatever but can't or won't face up to the boss, it is up to the husband to support her. In this case, supporting her means taking charge of a situation that she is either unable or unwilling to. * If the wife is enjoying the attention - and this is what I suspect - then the man needs to make it known to the wife's boss that he knows all about what's going on and will not tolerate it. Further non-professional contact will be unwelcome. The boss needs to hear this from another man, not from the woman in question (especially since she's basking in the attention). But regardless of whether the man contacts the boss or not, he'd best contact a lawyer and financial advisor/accountant and start protecting himself financially (without her knowledge). In Canada, the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women, and the vast majority of those end up with the male in the relationship being financially shredded.
  70. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: Theo Zivo from Canada writes: But regardless of whether the man contacts the boss or not, he'd best contact a lawyer and financial advisor/accountant and start protecting himself financially (without her knowledge). In Canada, the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women, and the vast majority of those end up with the male in the relationship being financially shredded.


    Theo Zivo, it's too late to start worry about financial devastation; they are already married. With any luck, they have no kids and she works. I do like the "macho factor" you are referring to.
  71. Nature Lover from Canada writes: Theo Zivo from Canada: do you always use an elephant gun to kill a mouse? This could be very easily nipped in the bud without all the dire circumstances that you suggest coming into play. This IS the techno-age, but it still requires people to manage the technology without accidently digging deep holes for themselves.
  72. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: it's too late to start worry about financial devastation; they are already married. With any luck, they have no kids and she works. I do like the "macho factor" you are referring to.
    Well, it's pretty much a given that she works, since she's getting this contact from her boss.

    But I take your point: No matter what her husband does, he's pretty much screwed. She can continue, if she wishes, to maintain and even increase this not-so-innocent contact with her boss, knowing full well that if/when she divorces her husband, she's going to get access to a bare minimum of 50% of his assets.

    (I'm assuming they didn't sign a pre-nup, which is unfortunate. Why any self-respecting man would get married without a cast-in-stone pre-nup is a mystery.)

    As far as the "macho factor" goes, it's simply addressing the issue where it needs to be addressed. Discussing the issue with the wife is one part of the solution, but it's only one part. Trusting her to do the right thing is clearly not on, since she's already shown that she isn't worthy of trust.
  73. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: Nature Lover from Canada writes: Theo Zivo from Canada: do you always use an elephant gun to kill a mouse? This could be very easily nipped in the bud without all the dire circumstances that you suggest coming into play.
    If you consider having an affair something that's to be take lightly, then clearly you and I see marriage as two different things.

    You see, the wife has very likely done this sort of thing before (though that's not exactly clear in the original letter) and if her husband doesn't man up now with some pretty serious backbone, it will happen again.

    It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

    Now if the husband is willing to live the rest of his life with a cheating woman and not say anything about it, hey, go right ahead. But if he's got any self-respect at all, he won't tolerate her manipulations for one more second.

    For the record, I'd give exactly the same advice if the tables were turned; that is, if it was the man fooling around and the woman catching him.
  74. Patrick Vert from Canada writes: Gender stereotyping is the only accounting I have for the bizarre advice given. It is clear the wife is complicit. But if you believe that only men have affairs or adulterous online exchanges, and women are always the helpless victims of male sexual aggression, than I guess the advice does make sense. However, if you do believe that, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.
  75. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: Theo Zivo from Canada writes: Well, it's pretty much a given that she works, since she's getting this contact from her boss.


    It's pretty clear I haven't had enough sleep. And no, it wasn't with my boss. :)

    Question for you: have you actually proposed marriage with a pre-nup? Just curious as to how one may put it without offending the other. Especially, since you are promising love "till death do us part" within the same breath.
  76. Humble Opinion from TO, Canada writes: If your wife is a ho, let her go. Otherwise, take her to a swingers club and get some action on her tab.
  77. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: Question for you: have you actually proposed marriage with a pre-nup

    She refused and ended up marrying someone else.

    She had an affair on him, took his child and about 75% of his assets.
  78. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: ouch.
  79. Nature Lover from Canada writes: Theo Zivo from Canada writes: Now if the husband is willing to live the rest of his life with a cheating woman and not say anything about it, hey, go right ahead. But if he's got any self-respect at all, he won't tolerate her manipulations for one more second.
    The point is HE'S NOT. He's asking for advice. Does he have to totally make unsubstantiated assumptions and lower the boom? Or be real and TALK TO HIS WIFE about the situation and ask to have his feelings respected? My way or the highway seldom works in realtionships.
  80. Wandering Willy from Canada writes: No question that his wife knows exacty what she is doing and is not being forced by the big bad boss. If the boss is leading off with R U alone then there is an agreement in place to get the all clear. But seriously! What guy says that they need their tires inflated? Is that sexy in any way to a woman? Learn how to cyber dude!
  81. Nature Lover from Canada writes: Wandering Willy from Canada writes: No question that his wife knows exacty what she is doing and is not being forced by the big bad boss.
    Well, it COULD be that she is just giving him an ego boost while receiving his idle chatter. In fact there IS a question as to the degree of "harmlessness" to this situation. That's why there should be some talking of husband and wife involved. Are you totally unaware of the BS people say to each other when they're consulting their Crackberry, even when they should be watching where they are going?
  82. Ed Flynn from Quispamsis, Canada writes: My advice - not "advise" as is used too often in posts above - would be to be upfront with but not confront the wife.

    Have the texts documented clearly.

    Then I'd make sure I was at the next bring-your-spouse to an office party party.

    The boss would surely amble over, cocktail in hand, looking to make some contact with my wife and me.

    I'd confront and be upfront with the boss and tell him forcefully to knock it off. I wouldn't rule out knocking him forcefully and telling him off.
  83. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: She's married, but the boss is an alpha male....if she's bored with her present husband it is because she has implemented plan B. Hubby better man up, but it's probably too late. See ya in court.
  84. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: Women initiate divorce 70% of the out hubby....
  85. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: dick brown from missy, Canada writes: Women initiate divorce 70% of the time....


    Dick, I thought we had already discussed this in another thread. Women initiate divorce 70% of the time because men cannot keep their willies in their pants. For every cheating woman there is a cheating man.
  86. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: ...Women initiate divorce 70% of the time because men cannot keep their willies in their pants. For every cheating woman there is a cheating man.
    Well, yes and no. That's only part of the story.

    David Popenoe, of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, New Brunswick, N.J. writes, "Two-thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. One recent study found that many of the reasons for this have to do with the nature of our divorce laws.* For example, in most states women have a good chance of receiving custody of their children. Because women more strongly want to keep their children with them, *in states where there is a presumption of shared custody with the husband the percentage of women who initiate divorces is much lower."


    Granted, this is a US study and may not exactly translate into the Canadian context.

    Still, it's not nearly black-and-white as you present it.
  87. little bear from Canada writes: The Boss has a Wife and family. I wonder if they would like to see some of the e-mails he sends??

    If the Boss has a Boss then there is another avenue.

    Quitting the job is tough in this environment.

    I personally was always more direct and would meet the boss after work and deal with him anyway he wanted it. I had a similar situation years ago and after I explained what was a promise to the Boss, the e-mails stopped.
  88. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: Theo Zivo, okay, fair enough, you've stated your fact. What is your solution? The answer cannot be iron-clad prenups each time, or is it? Our trust and faith in each other is dead. Who's to blame? How can we come out of this mess without having the "green" ultimately be our guiding light?
  89. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: Awe, I see where you are heading with this. But of course, to change family laws. The majority of public servants are men in politics so what is the hold-up? It's time to stop complaining. You need to pull yourselves together and fight for your parental rights. We as women are all too familiar with the process.
  90. BC Philosopher from Canada writes: There was another study done regarding stated divorce reasons and most were not actually about infidelity. Really kat? because men can't keep it in their pants..... charming. Are all of these men cheating with other men? most cheating is bisexual in nature? A similar study found only about a 10% variance between men and women in infidelity, (approx men 60-70% women 50-60%) disturbingly high in my opinion but perhaps I'm a bit old fashion. Another charming study I read involved an unrelated medical study done in the UK that involved testing blood types and phenotypes of parents and their children, approx a third of the men tested turned out to not be the childs real father. Cheating is not in any way shape or form the territory of men. I'd link the studies but at work I dont have the time to spend digging them up, posting is enough time spent on my coffee break. Saddly I have to agree with the use of a pre-nup as suggested. Current marriage laws pretty much require this if a man wants to be financially safe. It should be till death do us part but it simply isn't anymore, not with the mindsets people have now. A really good friend of mine had a common law spouse who lived in the house he owned while he worked she went to school to become a nurse, he helped pay for her schooling, she lived free. A couple weeks after she finished her program he recieved a notice from a lawyer, she got half his assets and he had to sell the house. Seem fair?
  91. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: BC Philosopher, no, it isn't fair. I hardly know where these women come from. Where were they raised and by whom? I am ashamed of my own sex when I hear stories like that. I can certainly understand why men are just not willing to commit these days. But the end result stays the same: a lot of lonely and unhappy people with pockets full of cash. That goes for men and women. It's a sad society we live in where we value money more than anything or anyone else.
  92. Theo Zivo from Canada writes: kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: I hardly know where these women come from. Where were they raised and by whom?
    They were raised by the first generation of "women's liberation" ideologues who mistakenly believed that they could "have it all" and that narcissism was somehow a laudable trait.

    The result? An entire generation of self-satisfied and self-centred women with an entitlement complex, supported by "gender equality" programs which deny men access to certain opportunities, and a misandrist court system.

    There is a groundswell of men's rights organizations that try to address these issues - especially legal ones - but too often they're perceived as whining, angry, even abusive. (See

    But rights groups aside, the fruit of the feminist tree is bearing generations of men who want little to do with commitment or long-term relationships. They are simply not worth the risk.
  93. little bear from Canada writes: Theo My Wife of 41 years was commenting on the fact that of the 7 close female friends she has, she is the only one still married.

    Most of the others are somewhat younger and they married these smooth pussified guys who were there for the good time but split as soon as things went south and now it seems many of the younger women are doing the same thing and leaving the kids with Dad.

    Committment means you take and give lumps but stay the course and work through any issue that comes up as no matter where you run to, issues will follow or you run into a whole set of new ones.

    We have raised and trained a whole generation of runners, they run from marriage to marriage, run from job to job, run from career to career.

    Modern education has conditioned these kids to seek fulfilment and that life is their oyster. Baby it isn't, and now with a good old fashion recession they are learning that a lot of what they were taught is crap.
  94. BC Philosopher from Canada writes: People aren't learning anything from this recession, not really. I speak as a finance professional. I see the same levels of greed I see the same demanding sense of entitlement. With the glut of mis-information floating around and incomplete factoids from the media these people have an even more ridiculous sense of what they feel they deserve.

    The sense of entitlement isn't going anywhere. I've been described by most of my female friends as the ideal husband/boyfriend kind of guy, in todays world that means I am perpetually single. I'm not an arrogant entitled screwball and I consider love and romance to be something to be valued, as a result I will probably spend much of my life alone. I imagine around mid to late 30s guys like me become a dish as people desire to settle down, only concern is if I will still be that guy in 5-10 years. If you are wondering why if they think I am so ideal why my female friends aren't jumping on me, look up the term friend zone. Though if romantic movies are correct I am bound to marry one of them and have a storybook romantic ending in 5-10 years. We'll have a lovely cabin on a lake, three well behaved children, and every sunday we'll go to the park and feed the griffons and ride home on unicorns.
  95. little bear from Canada writes: BC Philosopher- I have just hired a person for menial work for $15 an hour who has had various high paying jobs and several degrees in the IT field. She is unemployeed and has been for some time and at 43 that is not funny.

    She has dumped her $100 a month Blackberry and her expensive car and is now driving a civic.

    She has for the first time in her life done a budget and a complete inventory of her expenses down to the nickle.

    While there will always be some who will never learn, there are many who have had a real shock and are gaining a new perspective on life now.

    I have two brokers who are also gaining new insight and are being beaten badly and I have noticed several calls from them regarding a complete review of the accounts which has never happened before.

    I have said all of that to say that I hope that people will review their priorities and make lives for themselves that are meaningful.
  96. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: kat i....actually you have the solution...fair and equitable pre-nups upon signing a marriage contract or living common law for X number of years. The details worked out by a non-partisan committee....leave out the misandrists and mysoginists. Make it black and white law. If a person doesn't like the details, then they don't get married or live with someone. The details must be equitable! As it stands now, men are viewing marriage as all cost, no benefit. My solution would destroy family law, lawyers and judges.....yessssssssssss!
  97. kat i from Whitby, Canada writes: I have come to a conclusion. Prior to reading and participating in these threads, I was completely ignorant about domestic contracts. I felt that upon presentation of a prenup, your spouse chooses his/her money above all else. But over the past few months I have come to realize the struggles and various types of indecencies that may come along with it if you don't present it. BC Philosopher, you are still a young man. Watch the tables turn 10 years from now when you will not be considered a "friend" but rather you'll be the one sought after. Success drives women mad;.it is innate. Don't make the mistake of never settling though, just be sure to have a prenup in place.

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