Skip navigation

Military police failed to carry out obligations to detainees, probe finds

Globe and Mail Update

But clears MPs of beating, withholding care, or covering up the injuries on an Afghan prisoner ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Canadian First from Canada writes: Sounds just like how the RCMP does their business.
  2. Earl Street from Petawawa, Canada writes: "Military police failed to carry out obligations to detainees, probe finds.
    But clears MPs of beating, withholding care, or covering up the injuries on an Afghan prisoner."

    The MPCC has no proof of any Canadian soldiers abusing Afghan detainees. So they blame military police for not investigating soldiers who handed over injured detainees because the MPs believed the soldiers' story as to how the detainee was injured.
  3. F.T. Ward from Canada writes: The article says the MPs believed second hand stories of how the prisoners were hurt. Any decent investigator would have found first hand witnesses. No surprise here. The MPs are not a good investigative police force and should be relegated to field police, base security and traffic duties with the RCMP (dispite their flaws) handling criminal investigations.
  4. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:
    Two years to complete an investigation into a possible beating? Quite the contrast, considering how quickly the Canadian Forces were turning prisoners over to torturers and murderers in the dreaded Afghan security apparatus.
  5. james c from Canada writes: "Why neither the military police nor anyone in the entire military chain of command recognized the need for an investigation remains unexplained."
    ----------

    finding yourself in the middle of a war would explain it. There are higher priorities in a combat zone than explaining how some detainees were bruised at the time of their arrest.

    Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:
    Two years to complete an investigation into a possible beating?
    -----

    you're right (this time), its a colossal waste of time investigating what were minor occurrences in the field of battle.
  6. Dik Coates from Canada writes: We had an incident near Winnipeg that culminated in the closure of the East St. Paul police department. This was due to the incompetence of those involved starting with the police officers that investigated the scene, those that investigated the flawed investigation, the Crown attourneys... right up the chain... and not once in the report was the term 'incompetence' used... a flawed investigation, too.

    The chain should be broken, and competent and independent individuals should be injected into the process. The individuals focus should be justice and not appeasing those they work with.

    Another flawed investigation? seems so common these days.
  7. Misery No one from Toronto, Canada writes: Everything seems to be covered up these days, truth is hard to come by
  8. Neo Cynic from Bahamas writes:

    We greater greater accountability for the mere beating of a "suspected terrorist" in Afghanistan from the CF than for the outright murder of an innocent civilian in Canada from the RCMP.
  9. maggie's farmboy from Canada writes: Two years to fight over redactions.

    What readers are missing is that if there was a "cover up" Tinsley would have to be in on it, as he saw what was behind the redaction. Seems unlikely that he would risk his career and reputation to cover up for some low ranking soldiers, or anyone for that matter.
  10. Ooch Ouch from Canada writes:

    As I prepare to file this years tax return I feel I must ask, how much money did we waste on this investigation?

    .
  11. Ruby Christal from Edmonton, Canada writes: Typical Canadian Forces whitewash!

    Torture in Afghan prisons is one problem, child rape is another. CF is also handing over young boys, and we know what happens to them.

    Obviously, the Public can not handle the truth in these matters. More whitewash to come...
  12. Jim **** from Canada writes: Our government campaigned on a platform of transparency, but never seems willing to shine a light on its own behaviour.
  13. Joe Dick from Canada writes: Excellent news indeed!

    CF cleared of all wrong doing.

    Now keep handing those Afghan prisoners over to Afghan authorities.
  14. Catherine Medernach from Winnipeg, Canada writes: As usual, people are quick to jump on the bandwagon of criticizing the CF. Most do not appear to consider the circumstances at the time - if they are even aware of what the situation was.

    The Canadians were the first ISAF troops to go into southern Afghanistan. They not only had to take over Kandahar from the US but also had to clear the way for both the Dutch and the British troops to move into their areas of responsibility. They were stretched very thinly on the ground and did not have the capacity or facilities for holding detainees. They even had to pull the protection troop from the PRT at times to deal with the situation on the ground.

    Although many probably missed the story, there was actually an occasion when Canadian troops raised questions regarding the condition of a detainee held by the Afghans - and it was not even someone they had apprehended. Of course that incident would not reflect poorly on the CF so people would opt ignore it.
  15. F H from Ottawa, Canada writes: We should really have built our own detention centre as the Afghan jails are cesspools of physical and sexual abuse. Failing that, we are required by our own laws to ensure that we can track every single detainee we pass over to ensure that we aren't committing war crimes by handing over detainees to be tortured.
  16. Arron D from Canada writes: Ruby; what's the big huff over handing over boy soldiers? Child rape is a VERY common occurrence in 3rd world nations, happens millions of times a day.
    Canada isn't in Afghanistan to make them just like us, just less like them.
    From my understanding, ( I work with a fairly large group of south asians) man love is what you do, when you get tired of your hands and you have never seen a woman.

    So take a deep breath, have a glass of water and relax. Everything is working out just fine.

    Of course we could send Taliban Jack Layton over, he'd shame them all into civility in no time, look how effective he is in Parlaiment!
  17. justice peace from burnaby, Canada writes: When Afgans caught a british officer in the good old days of the 1890s would cut off his genitalia stuff them in his mouth sew his mouth up and watch him bleed and choke to death. A prisoner who is not complying gets corrected he needs it the soldiers and his sections lives are are on the line. It is war.Soldiers are not peace keepers Police are. If our guys get captured they loose their heads. These Afgans are lucky to be alive. Lets help and back our guys so they come home alive to their families .
  18. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Aaron D says, "What's the big huff over handing over boy soldiers? Child rape is a VERY common occurrence in 3rd world nations, happens millions of times a day."

    I'd say it's pretty simple, Aaron. Canada has given its solemn commitment to protect children. We signed quite a number of international treaties to prevent the practices you speak of above. What's perhaps most important, is that those practices deeply violate the values that most Canadians hold. Turning a blind eye to those practices makes Canadians complicit in them, and that again offends the values that Canadians hold.

    No government may legitimately pick and choose which international laws and national values it upholds, once it has freely given its commitment to them.
  19. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    justice peace writes, "Lets help and back our guys so they come home alive to their families."

    No amount of backing and help can prevent Canadian soldiers from being killed in Afghanistan. Those who truly prioritize the lives and limbs of our soldiers will withdraw them from the war in Afghanistan.
  20. Slumdog ArtsGraduate from Ottawa, Canada writes: Since G an M will not allow free reader commentary on today's Khadr article, I suggest using this thread for feedback on this story.
  21. The Last Fenian from Canada writes: .

    Arron D from Canada writes:

    "what's the big huff over handing over boy soldiers? Child rape is a VERY common occurrence in 3rd world nations, happens millions of times a day.
    So take a deep breath, have a glass of water and relax. Everything is working out just fine."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I vote that we send Arron over to Afghanistan and turn him over to these same child rapists for a few days.

    Then we'll see if he thinks "Everything is working out fine."

    .
  22. Wilfred Laurier from Vancouver, Canada writes: Our troops have unfortunately been exposed to American troops and American commanders polluted by the corruption of torture. Torture undermines the chain of command, erodes force discipline and creates an atmosphere of lawlessness and gratuitous violence which are inimical to military order and effectiveness. We should separate our troops from any Americans implicated by the torture, abuse and murder of innocent civilians.
  23. Let me tell You How It Is from United States writes: Do the Canadian thing and disband the Canadian Forces because of this! Outsource Canada's defence! Oh.....Canada has already outsourced it's defence to the US so no need to do anything. Such whine, complain, dither, wring hands and create a decades long Royal Commission into this.
  24. Joe Dick from Canada writes: Wilfred Laurier from Vancouver, Canada writes: Our troops have unfortunately been exposed to American troops and American commanders polluted by the corruption of torture. Torture undermines the chain of command, erodes force discipline and creates an atmosphere of lawlessness and gratuitous violence which are inimical to military order and effectiveness. We should separate our troops from any Americans implicated by the torture, abuse and murder of innocent civilians.

    =============================================

    Have their been any American soldiers implicated of torture, abuse and murder in A-stan? I don't think there has been.

  25. Catherine Medernach from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Wilfred Laurier from Vancouver - our troops learn the rules as part of their training - they work most closely with the Dutch and the British most of the time in Afghanistan. Torture is not part of the culture of the CF and exposure to US troops will not substantially change that. People will cite the incident in Somalia to indicate otherwise - but that was a particular group where the government had been advised there were problems and they should have not been deployed until those had been resolved. The CF paid a high price for politics and a few bad apples due to the bad publicity and by having a whole unit disbanded.

    The one area where the US under Bush did a lot of damage is in their treatment of detainees. They made it more acceptable for other countries to continue with their barbaric practices by sending detainees to those countries -and often denied that they were doing it. Their tacit approval has done serious harm to the reputation of the US -and by extension to NATO.
  26. Catherine Medernach from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Let me tell You How It Is - no, Canada has not 'outsourced' its defence to the US. A senior US officer in Afghanistan commented on the contibution of the Canadian troops and said that they were better trained than their US counterparts. In fact they received a US Presidential Unit Citation and at least 30 were awarded US Bronze Stars for their contribution in the routing the Taliban and Al-Qaeda from Afghanistan. BTW the CF saved the lives of many US troops in the early days in Afghanistan. While you may not appreciate the negative comments of some posters here, dissing the CF is not an appropriate response.
  27. Mark S from Calgary, Canada writes: Enough of this crap, its a war zone for christs sake. He is lucky to be alive. The troops can't help it, if he tripped over a rock, while trying to hide his IED. All you whiners and complainers, please go over there with a handful of flowers. I'm sure the taliban will be only to happy to shove them up your ying yangs, the same time as they are video tape your head being severed.
  28. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Joe Dick writes: "Have their been any American soldiers implicated of torture, abuse and murder in A-stan? I don't think there has been."

    You jest, surely? They even made an Academy Award-winning documentary about one such event: "Taxi To The Dark Side."

    You can see details by googling "Bagram torture and prisoner abuse"

    Or check the NY Times: "In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates' Deaths"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html

    A warning to those who do take the time to learn the truth, it makes for very disturbing reading.
  29. Jeff T from the place liar roskell ain't, Canada writes: Ruby, are you mentally challenged? Or just a little slow? I am thinking you are at the very least, an idiot. Come back when you have a factual arguement instead of your fictional tirade.
  30. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Catherine Medernach writes: "The CF paid a high price for politics and a few bad apples due to the bad publicity and by having a whole unit disbanded."

    A "few bad apples"? What Catherine isn't telling you is that while only a small number of Canadian soldiers participated in the torture and murder of the Somali teenager, many Canadian soldiers conspired to cover up that crime. Those who did so extended right into the CF headquarters.

    Catherine also isn't telling you WHY the entire unit, the Canadian Airborne Regiment, was disbanded. The Airborne wasn't disbanded because of the torture-murder of Shidane Arone. It was disbanded after an inquiry into that event uncovered home videos taken of the Airborne's "initiation rites." The initiation videos depicted soldiers being sodomized, being forced to eat excrement, and other unacceptable practices. David Collenette, the minister of Defence, called the videos disgusting, demeaning and racist.

    The Canadian public were shocked and appalled. The Airborne Regiment was disbanded shortly thereafter.
  31. Dik Coates from Canada writes:
    Let me tell you how it is... I don't think the US has been very successful of late in dealing with wars... so, as a Canadian, I would be very reluctant to leave our safety at their peril.

    Margolis has a really good article on torture... see

    http://www.ericmargolis.com/political_commentaries/americas-shame.aspx
  32. Dan L from Canada writes: F.T. Ward wrote: "Any decent investigator would have found first hand witnesses. No surprise here. The MPs are not a good investigative police force and should be relegated to field police, base security and traffic duties with the RCMP (dispite their flaws) handling criminal investigations."

    Well, well, well, it appears F.T. isn't just a run of the mill "know it all", he's actually a well rounded know it all! Please F.T., give us some insight into your expertise on the subject of the competence of and appropriate duties for the Military Police! (A bit of advice F.T., learn how to spell before you comment!)
  33. F.T. Ward from Canada writes: Dan L: Nice to hear from you again. I take it your position is that the proper way to investigate a matter is to rely on hearsay. If it's not then your complaint is what? Someone has pointed out an obvious truth about the MPs. The weakness of the MPs in investigations is clear unless you think the months it takes them to investigate a simple negligent discharge case is appropriate. I wonder how many civilian police homicide units would need a year to investigate a case where the victim, shooter, scene of the crime and the weapon were all in hand from day one?

    I've yet to see a MP investigation handled well so yes I have more than enough experience with the MPs to know they should stick to directing traffic and checking locks on buildings and leave serious crimes to experienced policemen. There's a reason they're bad investigators and it's a lack of experience. There are simply not enough crimes associated with the CF to develop an experienced detective. The MPs lack the daily assaults, thefts, break-ins, impaired driving, sexual offences that civilian police work on for years before moving on to more serious crimes and complicated investigations.
  34. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    I think this may be the first time (ever!) that you have it wrong, F. T.

    Dan L's position is that it's forbidden for Canadian civilians to criticize any aspect of the Canadian Forces. That includes (but is not limited to) criticism of CF policies in Afghanistan, CF policies in general, CF spending, CF history, CF equipment, branches of the CF, CF personnel from the CDS to the lowest grunt, retired CF personnel, and the Department of Defence.

    What's even more 'outre' in Dan's view is when members of the CF themselves (active or retired) offer the criticism.
  35. Dan L from Canada writes: F.T., once again, please tell us the upon what knowledge you're basing your evaluation of the competence of military police. Please let us know how you came to this conclusion:

    "There's a reason they're bad investigators and it's a lack of experience. There are simply not enough crimes associated with the CF to develop an experienced detective. The MPs lack the daily assaults, thefts, break-ins, impaired driving, sexual offences that civilian police work on for years before moving on to more serious crimes and complicated investigations."

    For you to claim assaults, thefts, break-in etc don't occur on DND controlled property clearly shows you know absolutely NOTHING about MP workload. Therefore you're certainly NOT in any position to evaluate the competence of military police.

    As for Roskell, get bent blowhard
  36. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Oh-oh. Dan's really taking the criticism of Canadian Forces MP's personally. I should have added that restriction to the list above.

    So, now that you're not a military MP anymore Dan, which civilian police force did you sign up with?
  37. Dan L from Canada writes: Richard the omniscient, buzz off (and stop making up stuff while you're at it)

    We're waiting F.T., please let us know the FACTS and specific data you're using to make your "evaluation". Come on F.T., how many break-ins were reported on CF bases in 2008, how many assaults .......... or as usual are you just pulling your conclusions out of your @ss based upon your preconceived notions.
  38. Jeff T from the place liar roskell ain't, Canada writes: Once again, liar lil dick roskell knows nothing about everything. Helluva track record dick... And the constant putting of words in other people's mouths. Of all the tools here, you are without a doubt, the weakest link.
  39. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes: It's not called "making stuff up", Dan L. It's called, "making a logical inference." F. T. Ward made some criticisms of Canadian Forces MP's, and because you've gone all vulgar and postal about it, the logical inference is that you take it personally. That suggests that you were once an MP yourself.

    Add that to your (apparently) long-forgotten statement on the G&M forum that you're employed in a police force, and what is a rational observer supposed to think? That you're currently employed in the fast-food industry?
  40. Dan L from Canada writes: Actually Roskell your comments are what's known in court as "stating facts not in evidence" or in plain english "making sh!t up!" Of course that's your stock in trade isn't it li'l dick ........ making things up to suit your agenda!

    In the meantime we're still waiting for F.T. to back up his assumptions with verifiable facts (just not holding our breath for obvious reasons)
  41. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes: LOL Please tell us Dan L, when in court, how do they refer to comments like yours?

    "We're waiting F.T., ...are you just pulling your conclusions out of your @ss based upon your preconceived notions."

    Take a look at the screen in front of you, Dan. Look much like a courtroom to you? I think not. This is the court of public opinion, and you just lost your case.
  42. Jeff T from the place liar roskell ain't, Canada writes: Ahh poor liar lil dick roskell... Being dragged around as such. Caught in yet another of his many falsehoods. Some day you will learn the value of honesty and be willing to engage in meaningful debate and discussion. On that day, I will become a pacifist.
  43. Scott Gartner from Canada writes: FT......were waiting for the time when you were a Cpl and the MPs gave you a speeding ticket, tell us that one, how mad you were......lol.

    Richard, you really don't have any friends in Naramata do you ? Just hanging out on here all day, very nice, go watch Law and Order there Rick, you Matlock you....................JUNK
  44. Dan L from Canada writes: Richard and his imaginary friends write:

    "Take a look at the screen in front of you, Dan. Look much like a courtroom to you? I think not. This is the court of public opinion, and you just lost your case."

    You know what they say about opinions li'l dick, they're like @ssholes, everyone has one ..........
  45. Dan L from Canada writes: Scott Gartner wrote:

    "FT......were waiting for the time when you were a Cpl and the MPs gave you a speeding ticket, tell us that one, how mad you were......lol."

    I wasn't going to go there Scott ....................... but I have to admit something along those lines certainly came to mind!

    Hey FT, still waiting for that data you based your OPINION on .......
  46. Jeff T from Canada writes: You will be waiting a long time. Do not hold your breath.

Comments are closed

Thanks for your interest in commenting on this article, however we are no longer accepting submissions. If you would like, you may send a letter to the editor.

Report an abusive comment to our editorial staff

close

Alert us about this comment

Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.

Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.

Back to top