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Taliban execute teen girl, man for eloping

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Accused by militants of immoral acts; condemned by council of conservative clerics ...Read the full article

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  1. Harry Plummer from Doha, Canada writes: Who said the Neaderthals were extinct!!!
  2. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Those Neaderthals are most welcome in Netherlands.
  3. Jim **** from Canada writes: I am suspicious of the origin and purpose of news reports that quote 'officials said' when it would have been easy to identify the 'officials' or to provide some corroboration.

    With the Afghan mission becoming increasingly unpopular, there are 'officials' who would like us to believe that the Taliban are universally evil and a threat to all we hold dear.

    If this event occurred at all, it could easily have been a one off by some local religious thugs. We deserve better reporting.
  4. Jim **** from Canada writes: My mistake, I reread the article and saw that the official was identified, and quoted.
  5. Darwin Fish from Kitchener, Canada writes: Apparently this is only newsworthy if the Taliban do it, can't seem to find this story anywhere on the G&M, , wonder why....
  6. Johnny Tokyo from Bangkok, Thailand writes: Yeah Jim ****, you should never ignore the attribution of such reliable sources such as 'Ghulam Dastagir Azad, the governor of the southwestern province of Nimroz.' I mean Ghulam Dastagir Azad, the governor of the southwestern province of Nimroz is a reliable source, a household word as it were. The beating of that young girl ten days ago was bad enough but this . . . Thank Gawd we're there helping these folks out (and maybe protecting a little pipe line-age while we're at it.) I'll just ring Ghulam Dastagir Azad, the governor of the southwestern province of Nimroz. up and , you know, ask him to confirm this latest atrocity. This kind of reporting just gets Canadians further into the glue. The question IS. . . . just WHO is it that wants us there??
  7. Nathan Cool from Vancouver, Canada writes: Johnny Tokyo, I imagine the people that were killed would have appreciated more troops.
  8. Canuck Abroad from Cyprus writes: Thank goodness that Canadian troops are in Afghanistan under NATO command to protect Afghanistan's territorial integrity, so that it does not become a failed state where the Taliban can operate with impunity. Nation building and spreading western values is its own reward.
  9. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: The US is sending a 21,000 more troops to this lawless land. I think we should listen to what Russia has to say about this region before Canada commits any more troops. I too wonder about the objective of this story of an execution of a young couple without a trial for apparently eloping. It looks as though we should question why are we losing our soldiers lives for such a place as this. We just lost another soldier, Karine Blais in yet another blast, my thoughts and wishes are with her friends and family at this time.
  10. Brad Reddekopp from Hazelton, British Columbia, Canada writes: Religion is evil. Faith-based living is immoral.

    Any questions?
  11. John Hidden from Puntarenas, Costa Rica writes: this is simply INDECENT and IMMORAL.

    I figure myself so lucky to be an atheist
  12. Johnny Tokyo from Bangkok, Thailand writes: Nathan? I'll give it to you straight,okay. Even though it's in print and everything, I don't believe that the Afghan story has any basis in reality. It's probably not true. It's standard war propaganda. The attribution reeks. When you get media on anything you should ask yourself WHO is saying WHAT to WHOM and HOW does (s)he want this reader/ listener / viewer to react. This mere act of critical interface with media will go far to help you understand things. By the same token, from time to time, you may ask yourself why certain things that you KNOW to be news like nano-thermite are NOT BEING REPORTED. BTW Canwest Global a media conglomerate to which Canadian audiences owe their ignorance has just been declared 'toast'.
  13. Levap K from Canada writes: Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Those Neaderthals are most welcome in Netherlands.
    Alex, you don't have clue what you are talking about. This similarity is rather crude joke! Besides, there never been any what you call Neaderthals. You copied this from Harry Plummer unaware of the real term.
    Harry Plummer from Doha, Canada writes: Who said the Neaderthals were extinct!!!
    You must be one of them, because you don't know what you are talking about. To use their name as slander is poor taste. If, you would know Neanderthals, then you would have to admire them and the way they were living under those conditions.
  14. Shaky Lady from guelph, Canada writes: Ahhh the delightfull lefties - never dissapoint in coming up with an excuse for the enemy. dolts.
  15. dave marston from niagara falls, Canada writes: I was in my teen years here in Canada while the the U.S. war with

    Vietnam raged on and on.

    The nightly news for years and years and years, showed the footage.

    And here we are now.

    Some things never change.
  16. Ultra Chauvinistic Canadian from Canada writes: It is futile to hope that we can 'impose' our liberal cultural values upon a reluctant and recalcitrant society. The Afghans in the remote villages have practised their (retrogressive, misogynistic, patriarchal) way of life for hundreds of years, and while the Taliban is imposing a stricter code of conduct, it is still sanctioned by the men and the mullahs who treat women and children like chattels.
    The change of culture has to evolve from within the society itself, but the Taliban will resist this with all their might since their avowed goal is to impose their brand of shariah on the Afghans, and God willing (inshallah), on the rest of the decadent world. The Taliban is committed to that vision and their goons believe in it and are willing to die for it. Does the rest of the world have the patience to change a backward society? It will take countless generations to do so, even in the marvels of the modern information age.
  17. M. MacDonald from Canada writes: Sadly I agree with most of what Ultra Chauvinistic Canadian has said. In the years or even generations it will take to change these backward beliefs, do we abandon Afghan women to be persecuted and murdered so callously? While reading this heartbreaking story, I couldn't imagine the hatred that dwells in people's hearts, that would compel them to summarily execute a young couple for the
    crime of being in love. This is pure evil practiced by religious fanatics.
  18. Think like me from Toronto, Canada writes: It's times like this that you have to wonder if Bush was right: They do hate our freedoms. At least the ones with guns do.

    Poor kids - and their evil parents for turning them in.

    Religion must be erradicated from the face of the earth.
  19. Tim McDermott from Rawdon NS, Canada writes: Hey Johnny Tokyo, I don't work for CANWEST., but unlike you, I can say that I've been to Afghanistan. I 've seen first hand the atrocities that you say are figments of the imagination of the media. I've seen the imaginary dead bodies, and spoken to the imaginary families of the imaginary dead. I've held pressure bandages over shrapnel wounds on imaginary children who were the targets of imaginary suicide bombers.
    Go peddle your media propaganda conspiracy crap somewhere else.
  20. sleazy Silvester from Canada writes: Sad story, those who think its to unbelievable or unreal get out from under your rock. This is a fundamentalist region where people will kill their citizens because they run off, they'll through acid on the face of girls trying to go to school, they'll blow up girls schools and decapitate the teachers, leaving there bodies in the streets so people fear going against this ruthless behavior.

    Those who say/think religion is to blame, I'll use a wider scoping word like people are to blame (substitute that in your comments). Those who try/want to eradicate religion, thats become your religion and you should eradicate yourself from the debate, join the free world and let people believe what they want when it does not infringe on others right to believe what they want. Thats a freedom that has been denied from history and only in the recent past has become a part of everyday life.
  21. Paul Sheridan from Hawkestone, ON, Canada writes: Religions are cults. The Taliban should be culled. Every last one of them and soon.
  22. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Levap, hi there - I didn't mean similarity in both words. My point was about those cases of muslim extremists vendetta in the Netherlands where they killed a film director who was the author of a film about conditions of women in many muslim families in Netherlands - this film director was assasinated in responce. Recently there was one more Dutch MP put to jail only for issue of another movie about fundamentalist islam.There are problems with such things in many places, but the Netherlands reveals the exrend of stupidity which shoks me - they are not only betraing their Christian heritage, but even arrange for their own kids the future comparable with what we have now in Afganistan!
  23. garlick toast from Canada writes: If you took away their guns, they'd use stones. That's what they do. They are not us, nor will they ever be.Since ''killing them all'' would only bring us down to their level, we should leave and only return when we are asked. Karzai is no better than the T'ban. A single Canadian life lost in A'stan is too many.
  24. North Star from Canada writes: The Taliban have won.
  25. Tim McDermott from Rawdon NS, Canada writes: Ultra Chauvinistic,
    You are right, we in the Western world have to be careful about imposing our 'western' beliefs on cultures that are radically different from our own. For example, while we in hte Western world believe in equality of the sexes, those views are not shared by a significant portion of the rest of the world. While we believe in the separation of church and state, there are many others who do not. Here in Canada, it has been only in the last 40 years that we have adopted many of our beliefs. We've had the advantage of world class education systems, a strong economy, national wealth, political will, and a strong independent media that have allowed us to make these changes. It is unrealistic for us to expect that the Afghanis will be able to change overnight. Afghanistan is an area where the vast majority of the people are illiterate. What little education they have received has been through the Mullahs. Change takes time, and we must learn to accept that there will be many more instances of injustice and atrocity along the way. Our goal should be to ensure that the grandchildren of Afghanistan can enjoy what we take for granted.
  26. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: .
    This has been the Afgan way of life for hundreds of years. Does Canada think it will succeed where the Persians, British and Russians failed?
  27. pole cat from Canada writes: I guess its time to step up security in astan.We also have to stop playing by the rules of war and ingage the taliban in a knockout drag down war.
  28. garlick toast from Canada writes: Paul Sheridan from Hawkestone, ON, Canada writes: Religions are cults. The Taliban should be culled. Every last one of them and soon.


    You must be a slow learner.
  29. COUNT IGGYTOSIS OF IFFYLAND from Dildo NFLD, Canada writes: Galloway and his merry band of supporters will be cheering this morning. Another example of the righteous excercising their beliefs in the name of freedom.
  30. Eric Martin from Canada writes: This is not unlike what the Christian Inquisition used to do.

    Religions, with their assertions of absolute faith and absolute God given rights, have laid, throughout history, to several atrocities.

    So many wars, so many killings have been perpetrated in the name of God. The notion of God has been used to blind common decencies.

    Every era is so convinced that they are right and that the others are just barbaric; I wonder what, in our current western religions, will appear as barbaric in a few centuries. I can think of many destructions of human lives that our western religions are now perpetrating in the name of some absurd, God imposed, morality.

    We see how insane the defence of public morality can become. Can we have a hard look at our own laws and question every law that defends our notion of public morality? A simple rule, such as, there should be no crime without victim, would help us get rid of a lot of our own absurdities.

    A fundamental human right, should be the protection from God imposed moralities.
  31. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Another G&M article from Afghanistan that does not add up .The writer , in Kabul relies on information from officials , who according to those sources have no access to the area where the event occurred, so what was their source of information ? No names , no dates, conflicting details, and no eyewitness report on any of the event , the problem is squarely placed on the shortage of US troops .
    What hapened to all the G&M copy editors ?
  32. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Tim McDermott, please don't mention illiteracy as an excuse (or even explanation) for the way things are done in the world of Islam - remember that many communists, nazi, and even Osama bin Laden himself are university educated and sofhisticated as far as education is concerned - the problem is in the nature of a teaching they follow - there should be some kind of reformation which muslims should do themselves about their religion - but so far no signs of sush and even no desire to change anything...I am pessimistic about all such kind of things.
  33. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Eric Martin from Canada writes: This is not unlike what the Christian Inquisition used to do.

    Have you ever read Scriptures? - what Inquisition did was deviation, it was in contradiction to what Jesus said!...And capital punishment for various religious crimes in the Koran is pretty normal - so for Islam it is not a deviation, but way it is.---Don't you see the diference?...Or you would say- hey, Hitler killed a lot of people, but in Canada there are 50-60 killings a year only in Toronto?--don't you see the absurdity of your argumentation with Inquisition?
  34. DDB 9000 from Ithaca, NY, United States writes:
    Brad Reddekopp & John Hidden put it very well, but I will say it in a different way...

    For those of you out there clinging to your religious beliefs, don't you get it yet? Don't you see the results of turning your minds over to people/systems that just want to control you? If you need to believe in something, believe in yourself, your family, your friends. Or better yet, believe in reality, no imaginary beings - and do good things because you can do them as a good person, not because someone in the sky tells you to...
  35. James Meatball from Niagara Falls, Canada writes: So that's what we're fighting for?! Another soldier killed yesterday, and for this kind of barbaric 'culture'?
  36. Tim McDermott from Rawdon NS, Canada writes: Alex,
    My point is, that change takes time, and it is unrealistic to expect that change will happen soon enough to satisfy most Western observers. My point about illiteracy is that education is an instrument of change. It does not insulate a society against evil, but it does help to bring about change. Without that basic building block, and the others that I mentioned, (a strong economy, national wealth, political will, and a strong independent media) there can be no change. Islam is, what it is, and it has its own factions, sects, and interpretations. In the case of Afghanistan, it will not be an instrument of positive change.

  37. comrade canuck from Canada writes: Johnny Tokyo from Bangkok, Thailand writes Thank Gawd we're there helping these folks out (and maybe protecting a little pipe line-age while we're at it.)

    Tell us more about this pipeline John. It has been almost 8 years John, where is this pipeline? Someone, somewhere out there must have a picture of this pipeline,no?
  38. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: OH ya Afghanistan was worth it, we really changed a lot, I am sure we could do the job and get it done if w stayed a 1000 years maybe at the least in that time span, they may even accept as i tribal people. lol

    Poor young kids killed because they were in love, Islam, that a religion that people will run to.
  39. Tim McDermott from Rawdon NS, Canada writes: Kevin Desmoulin,
    We've been there for seven years...what were you expecting world peace? We were in the Balkans for 10 years and Cyprus for close to 30 years. Change takes time.
  40. Bill Foonman from Jacksonville, United States writes: Primitive, barbaric savages. Does that sound too strong when describing the Taleban?
  41. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Bill Foonman from Jacksonville, United States writes: . Does that sound too strong when describing the Taleban?


    Bill, there are a lot of "Primitive, barbaric savages" in the world - but they just seat in the forest and do not threaten the world with trying to grab nukes in Pakistan. Read today's G@M article about introducing Sharia law in regions of Pakistan by the decree of Pakistani President!...So your words are not too strong, but too mild...
  42. Eric Martin from Canada writes: Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Eric Martin from Canada writes: This is not unlike what the Christian Inquisition used to do.

    Have you ever read Scriptures? - what Inquisition did was deviation, it was in contradiction to what Jesus said!...And capital punishment for various religious crimes in the Koran is pretty normal

    The Christian Inquisition 'thought' that they were following the Scriptures. The problem with these religious books is that they are widely open to interpretations. In other words, the notion of God is used to justify any behaviour - even the most barbaric.

    There is little we can do get the Talibans out of their religious frenzy. However, seeing how insane their religion has got them to be, seeing how insane our own Inquisition was, we should have a good hard look at ourselves today.

    What are the insane things we are doing now in the name of our religions? Remember Bush is a devoted Christian, absolutely convinced that torture and killing 10s of thousands of people needlessly was the right thing to do. And he is not alone - some, today, believe that God gave them the eternal right to steal other people's land and kill its inhabitants if they dare to resist.

    The Pope is opposing the use of condoms despite the ravages of HIV. It was not long ago that homosexuals were submitted to electric shock therapy to 'cure' them. Our own morality laws are still criminalizing several harmless sexual practises.

    The Talibans are barbaric. Will our own practises appear as barbaric to future generations?
  43. Vote for your country from Canada writes: SMARTEN UP. If any one of you who post here thinks for one single solitary moment that killings like this only happen in remote areas of Afghanistan, give your heads one mighty good shake and open up your eyes. This isn't about faith at all. So lay off. This is about control and always has been about control. Control by men who hide behind holy books to justify their crimes against women and to justify their acts of war. Is that a generalization? You betcha it is, but it has truth to it and many of you know it. You have a Pope who sits on a throne of gold and tells women not to use the pill. You have some Islamic cleric advocating that a husband can rape and kill his wife in the name of Islam. Mohammed would have a fit if he knew that and Jesus wouldn't like it either. This is not about religion, but about the STRUCTURES built by men to controll every damned thing around them. It is fundamentalist doctrine and it justifies murder and enslavement. And no I don't hate men. But a spade is a spade.
  44. saadia hussain from Toronto, Canada writes: Vote for your country: Thanks for calling the spade a spade.
  45. Courtney Ooosterhof from Canada writes: This is a terrible act on behalf of the couple. However, this is what happens when Islam demands justice; you have to understand the context in which the couple was shot. They knew what could happen, considering their religion, and made the choice, risking the consequences.
    Stop congratulating yourselves on being atheist, that has nothing to do with this situation.
  46. Vote for your country from Canada writes: Eric Martin from Canada
    The Inquisition was following doctrine created by a council of men in the early centures following the death of their saviour. At no point was the inquisition following anything other than the wishes of popes and secular kings as they grabbed power. The Inquisition was created to stamp out heresies such as the Cathars in southern France, who recognized the importance of both genders and did not seek to enslave and rape women for control. No they were not following scripture at all. For if they were, then they would have answered to a woman. Mary Magdalene was the Apostle of Apostles, not Peter. Again, it is not the teachings that create slavery and inequality, but the structures upon which those teachings now rest and the lies that support them.
  47. Li Chi Ho from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Like normal young people everywhere, this young man and woman (not "girl" editors) wanted to be together. Their parents and the Taliban murdered them for it. As Courtney Oosterhof from Canada writes, "they knew what could happen." A cold analysis, but like Romeo and Juliet, they would rather be dead than be kept apart. A sad story in any cultural context.

    The evil that is Islamic extremism killed them. rather than they killing themselves, but the result was the same. What has been gained? Family honor in this case, according to the world-view of extremists. I don't think our troops can be expected to protect people from their own families.
  48. Eric Martin from Canada writes: Vote for your country from Canada writes: ... This isn't about faith at all. So lay off. This is about control and always has been about control. Control by men who hide behind holy books to justify their crimes against women and to justify their acts of war.


    It IS about faith. It is because they need a faith that men are accepting these controls. Men have an instinctive need to cling to a perfect and powerful father for protection - this might be what faith is - and all religions, as far as I know, have attempted to satisfy this need. Throughout history, authorities have used this need for a faith as a tool of control.

    One might imagine some form of private faith with no political structures. I have nothing against this private behaviour. However, faiths that spread and become political structures have caused many ravages.

    Like it or not, this is our past and it probably is our present.
  49. Vote for your country from Canada writes: Eric Martin
    No, not all religions have this need to cling to a father. And not all faith requires subjugation. It isn't that way at all if you separate the teachings from the structure. Men don't accept control. They create and maintain control. Organized religion is the perfect example of control and conquest. But we need to make a distinction between faith and structure. If we don't then the teachings of peace and equality and hope go out the window and we are left with a view of faith that justifies rape because all we have left is the window of fanaticism to look through. I repeat there is a big difference between the teachings and the reality. Thank men for that one.
  50. hugh machugh from Canada writes: The US, Canada, Britain and a few other countries are attempting to re-culturize, democratize and free the Afghan people. The news media tends to categorize and accentuate the extreme elements of muslim people. We are dealing with two general groups of people- the modern West culture and the centuries old Middle East culture. Even the moderates of the muslim world are at great odds with the modern Canadian-American culture. They are completely at opposite ends of the spectrum when comes to human sexual behaviour. Our West culture, lead by media and entertainment, promotes or condones promiscuity, abortion, teen-age sex, homosexuality including legitimizing the universal male homosexual sexual culture under the definition of marriage in Canada. We popularize alcohol. All of these modes of human behaviour are despised by the muslim culture, not glamourized. The destruction done to Western society by its over-liberal behaviour over the past 50 years is astonomical in financial and sociological costs. How is this weighed against other societies? The extreme Taliban practice of beheading of a sex-before-marriage couple shoud be replaced by a shot-gun marriage? The atmosphere of the West telling other countries of the world how to run their societies seems to be on weak foundations. It is very precarious for Canada, which has now lost 117 soldiers to free a country few Candians know little about. Soldiers who in the great majority have not lost their lives in combat with the "enemy", but as extremely vulnerable occupants of military vehicles being destroyed by remotely controlled roadside bombs. Is it time to let Afghanistan go its own way with its own internal problems?
  51. Vote for your country from Canada writes: Mr. McHugh

    You are asking me to turn a blind eye to the use of a religion to justify the torture, disfigurement, rape, abuse, and outright murder of women because of their gender.
    East, West, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Jew, black, white, purple, pink, whatever. As a woman, I cannot do that anymore. I simply cannot.
  52. Let me tell You How It Is from United States writes: "The woman, 19, and the man, 21, were accused by the militants of immoral acts, and a council of conservative clerics decided that the two should be killed, said Ghulam Dastagir Azad, the governor of the southwestern province of Nimroz."
    Isn't that according to Sharia Law...the same law that was supposed to be introduced into Ontario to make Canada more of a multi-cultural mosaic. Isn't that Governor Azad that Canadian from TO who is a Canadian citizen?
  53. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: Utterly disgusting! And some 'civilized' people want to talk to these 'Toilet Ban'? What's even more disgusting is that the 'elders' approved and gave the go ahead for these murders.
    This isn't about 'religion' or 'faith'. It's about murder!
  54. L Harder from Canada writes: The facts of the story are entirely plausible, for both sides of the conflict.
  55. Garth Gilligan from Sooke, Canada writes: I have to agree that the actions of the Taliban are indeed barbaric and murderous. The action against these two young elopers illustrates clearly the savage nature of Taliban thinking and their approach to governing the population they control.

    At the same time I have to ask any rational person, even a Jack Layton, can argue that we can negotiate with these medieval throwbacks. Where is the "common ground" that Jack or any westerner would find in negotiation with such extemists?

    Perhaps we are approaching that watershed point where our western governments, those that actually participate in confronting the Taliban, will have to decide either to annihilate them or to get out and leave them to their barbarism. A couple of centuries of isolation might be the only answer.
  56. james cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: This is just another example of the evil of fundamental Islam and its proponents, the Taliban. And is also just one more reason why the Morality of Death should be stamped out.
  57. harry carnie from Northern B.C, Canada writes: John Hidden .. yes, as a confirmed Atheist myself;
    I believe in justice, understanding,and allowing
    NO HARM to my fellow man/woman.
    Obviously an INTOLERABLE attitude as far as the religious(any religion) are concerned.
  58. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    The Taliban are Tribal, and live by the Old Testament rules where children are property, thus must obey their parents.

    This problem has more to do with poverty. Once parents become less dependent on children for their own survival, these mores tend to disappear.
  59. The Last Fenian from Upper Canada, Canada writes: .

    Yet another example of the danger of a faith based, rather than a rationally structured society.

    The Taliban are advocating a societal moral code similar to many Christian cultures as recently as 100 years ago.

    It was just 60 years ago that blacks were being tortured with blow torches before being lynched by Christian advocates the KKK in the USA.

    Any and all societies and cultures can eventually be reformed, including these more fundamentalist Muslim ones.

    Ignorance and superstition aren't eternal constants.

    Rational liberalism is dominant now in the west (though not universal) and can eventually be so elsewhere.
  60. Sask Resident from Regina, Canada writes: An Afghani Romeo and Juliet?

    The Taliban are an example of the evil of fundamentalism but I doubt if they follow the teachings of Islam. Same as saying that Hitler was an example of Christianity. The Taliban use their culture, built over the years, to control and maim but claim it is based on the teachings in the Quoran. Like most religious texts, few of the things pushed by the Taliban are within the Quoran, but rather the Taliban's interpretation of the teachings. Same as the Spanish inquisition.
  61. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: Life is unfair. Two young people in love that wanted to share a life together are killed by misled people. All they wanted to do was share their lives together and for this they are killed....and the killers were led to the couple by their own parents.

    My purpose in life is to teach my children, protect them from harm and give them the best chance to succedd and find hapiness in life. These parents purpose was to protect the families honour?...Where is the honour in causing your owns childs death?
  62. Another vicious kick right in the face from America to freedom., writes: The two fled their homes and hoped to travel to Iran, but their parents sent villagers to bring them home ...

    I wonder if these parents now regard that as a mistake.
  63. Frank Madigan from Capreol, Canada writes: What a terrible crime these two young people committed before their death at the hands of those from a peaceful religion. They were in love. That certainly isn't allowed in the book of the Prophet (PBUH). Who knows but let this be a lesson to you and to the Trooper Blais who died in Afghanistan yesterday. We are sending our young people to their deaths for a false notion of helping form a democratic country in what is essentially a group of semi autonomous tribes. This is Kipling's area, a roll to your gun and blow out your brains and go to your God like a soldier type of place. There is no room for fancy notions of love, independence, caring of a family for their daughter although I am sure many mothers and fathers do. It is an accept your fate, bow to Allah, listen to the Mullahs and do not even try to think if you are a woman. Indeed if you are a woman, just cry for you as yet unborn children because their life will be hell whether they are male or female. Just more of a hell if they are female. Get our troops out of there.
  64. Michael Rudin from United States writes: Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States
    Why excuse for the Taliban.
    Many other people in this world have come from or faced greater poverty and relied on their children for help, but unlike these folks but have not executed their children for falling in love.
  65. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: It's entirely plausible that this happened the way they said, although it's clearly being milked for it's propaganda value. We've only heard about this one because of the Taliban connection.

    Honor killings are common throughout the middle east. In Nato ally Turkey last year there were approximately 200 of them. Normally a boy under 16 is chosen to be the killer because he will get a short prison sentence. The laws have tightened, so the families now pressure their daughters to commit suicide to save the family honor. "Women told: 'You have dishonoured your family, please kill yourself'", The Independent,

    Some have mentioned acid attacks. These are unfortunately common in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh and have occurred in Thailand, Cambodia and China, with a couple of attacks in Greece and the US. In 2002 Bangladesh had 484 acid attacks.

    "Care for female victims of acid attacks", Youtube,

    "Pakistani salon owner reveals extent of country's acid attack epidemic", The Independent,

    "Acid Attack on Women in Bangladesh", Youtube,
  66. Frans Halls from Canada writes: - From the covenant of the world's largest and most violent organization. I have changed the names to disguise the source without altering the message. "Your leader has sent you from your homes to fight for the cause. Your leader wished to confirm the truth by his words: wipe those who disagree with us out to the last. We shall terrorize everyone who is unlike us! So smite them on their necks and every joint, and incapacitate them, for they are opposed to our doctrine and our leader. Whosoever opposes our doctrine and our leader should know that we are severe in retribution. And know that one-fifth of what you acquire as booty in war is for our great leader (the rest is for you). The use of such spoils is lawful and good." "Fight them till all opposition ends and only our doctrine rules. If you meet anyone who disagrees with us in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned. Slaughter those who disagree with us wherever you find them. Lie in wait for them. They are specimens of foolishness. Punish them so that our superior dogma and leader can put them to shame. If you apprehend treachery from a people with whom we have a treaty, retaliate by breaking it off. Those who do not think like us should know that they cannot bypass our doctrine. Surely they cannot get away. Fight them until they pay a heavy tax in submission to us; how perverse are they. Our leader and his doctrine will damn them. For anyone who offends our leader or opposes our doctrine will receive a painful punishment. We will burn them alive. So prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster, that you may strike terror in the enemies of our cause!" Have you guessed who I am referring to, none other than the leader and founder of the Islamic Faith. Reassuring isn't? Have a happy day!
  67. Richard Roskell from Canada writes:

    Udom's thoughts are consistent with the reality in Afghanistan. Those individuals in Afghanistan who step outside tribal norms, family code of honour, or society's strictures in general risk serious harm. This is true regardless of the part of Afghanistan you live in, or if Taliban control the area.

    The killing of family members who breach the family's code of honour is common throughout Afghanistan, India, Pakistan and other countries. Whether this unfortunate couple lived in Taliban or non-Taliban areas, their lives were potentially forfeit if they defied their parents over a matter like marriage. As incredible as it may seem, in all likelihood the parents themselves were the ones who insisted on the couple being put to death. That is how a matter of honour such as this is dealt with in Afghanistan and other societies.

  68. Michael Rudin from United States writes: Richard Roskell from Canada. Most of us understand your explanation.
    But this is 2009 not something that happened 2000 years ago. As usual you make excuses for barbarian activity committed by the Taliban.
  69. Richard Roskell from Canada writes:

    Frans Halls, if citing thousand-year old texts is supposed to be relevant to describing religions today, shouldn't you be giving equal time to Biblical passages?

    The Holy Bible begins its moral message by exhalting a man who is about to perform a human sacrifice- of his own son! Then it gets nasty. It goes on to depict (in no particular order) torture, human and animal sacrifices, sodomy, incest, adultery, murder, mass killings, witchcraft, sorcery, and finishes off with an hallucinatory rant about the End of Days. The Bible's greatest hero was whipped near-to-death and then nailed to a cross, languishing for three days of agony before being stabbed with a spear. When The Bible's second greatest hero decided that he coveted a married woman, he had her husband killed, then bedded the widow. One can go on at great length in this vein.

    Best to be careful about pointing fingers at the holy books of other societies.
  70. Diane Schweik from Edmonton, Canada writes: .

    "A matter of honour." How can anyone living in a western democracy use this stupid phrase in explanation,let alone defence,of the indefensible ?
  71. Alastair james Berry from Canada writes:

    If that's the law you've got to respect it!

    Society gets the LAWS IT DESERVES!

    Canada has many insane laws too, that cause untold numbers of suicides in youth! That cause permanent deafness in Motor Cyclists. That promote Gang warfare. That let politicians and others with money avoid punishment for evading income tax and actually ENCOURAGE losers to run for office. That let civil servants and police avoid punishment WHEN THEY BREAK THE LAW!

    Let's not be accused of being the pot that calls the kettle black.
  72. Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Michael Rudin, I did not interpret Richard Roskell's comment as an excuse. He was simply stating a fact.
  73. dagne mrth from Canada writes: The funniest part about this outrage is if you are older than 40 you should remember the days when the Taliban was your best buddies, being trained and armed by your tax money to fight their then evil Soviet invaders trying to destroy their religious freedom.

    How the world have changed... well, except the Taliban, they were just as extreme as they were 30 years ago.
  74. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Michael Rudin: Greetings

    " ... Why excuse for the Taliban ..."

    Joseph T: Greetings

    " ... Michael Rudin, I did not interpret Richard Roskell's comment as an excuse. He was simply stating a fact ..."

    I see a pattern here. There was no intention, stated of implied, to excuse Taliban for what they do. I was expressing a general principal that when children are considered property a la Old Testament, they are not given the rights that we in an exchange based society are used to.

    The Taliban are Tribal and living in a pre-agrarian society, and their mores reflect their socio-economy. No excuse, just a statement of fact.

  75. hugh machugh from Canada writes: To the "Vote for your country from Canada" woman who posted at 11:11am-- questioning my 10:56 post. The US and its "coalition forces" have bombed at least 100,000 innocent men, women and children to death in their last 3 wars since 1990--twice in Iraq and once in Afghanistan. Where do we draw the line in the name of democracy and "freedom", and so on? Are there other ways to handle these situations?

  76. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:"... The Taliban are Tribal and living in a pre-agrarian society, and their mores reflect their socio-economy..."

    Syed Abbas, you are sppeaking like Lenin and Marks - when I was a schoolboy we here in Soviet times were also taught that moral reflects socio-economy and nothing more....Since those days opinions changed even here in Russia and religious origins of moral are understood as more important then just socio-economical....You also cited Lenin for me in a parallel thread,-I don't understand you - are you a communist?...I thought you are a muslim with whom it is possible to be in dialog - why is all that your communist stuff here?
  77. Guitar Player from Vancouver, Canada writes: And fundamentalist Islamic groups wonders why much of the west thinks they're bunch of fanatical, murderous zealots whose conduct disentitles from basic human consideration themselves. Go figure.
  78. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Can one lesson from this tagedy be:

    Love thy elders for they speaketh from the word of Al?
  79. John Peterson from Canada writes: They remind me of the chimpanzees on Discover Channel - hording their concubines and feuding with neighbouring clans.
  80. Ivan Wilson from Canada writes: Unfortunately I expect no less from this dirty, primitive, arab culture. If you scratch any arab you will find this lack of decency just below the surface. The Taliban carry it openly - that's all.
  81. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Alex ALEX: Greetings

    " ... Syed Abbas, you are sppeaking like Lenin and Marks ..."

    Sorry mate, you are 500 years out.

    I was referring to Ibn Khaldoon, the Muslim Philosopher from Maghreb (present day Morrocco) who theorized that the economic basis determines the social superstructure.

    Marx probably borrowed Ibn Khaldoon's partially, for he eliminated God from the equation. Therefore, the godless Soviet System failed.

    Get out of your half-baked Western theories and go to the real knowledge. Marx failed in the East Europe, and the Corporate Model is now failing in the West Europe and elsewhere. The Musilms buried corporate socialism 6 feet under, and they will do the same to corporate capitalism.

  82. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: Thanks for responce Syed Abbas, but social superstructure doesn't inevitably determines morals (and I was posting about it, right?) - the prove is you yourself - you live in USA, within americam social superstructure, albeit your moral is not anyway similar to americam mainstream.

  83. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    The headline of this story is deceptive. The story is not written to inform, but rather with the intent to invoke outrage in the Western public against the Taliban.

    Afghanistan is a primitive, undeveloped country. Many tribal laws and customs are unchanged from centuries ago. Those laws can be harsh; but are no more so than the the kinds of laws one commonly sees in tribal societies elsewhere.

    The Taliban, on the other hand, are a very recent phenomenon. They have nothing to do with the tribal laws per se, other than that they will enforce those laws which are customary. To Afghans, the Taliban's popularity and acceptance is largely based in their willingness to enforce the law of the land.

    There are millions of Afghans who live under customary laws which force them to obey their parents' wishes concerning marriage. To Afghans, that issue is so important that those who defy it are subject to being killed- by their own families. It's a matter of honour, and any child who goes against his parents' wishes in this area disgraces the family. That sense of disgrace is so powerful that the family themselves, or friends on their behalf, will kill the child.

    These are TRIBAL customs. They are not based in Islam. Other non-Muslim societies have similar rules. For instance Sikh parents in Canada have killed their children for defying orders concerning marriage.

    Any foreign power wishing to control Afghanistan must acknowledge and accept this reality. There is a large segment of the Afghan population who will demand that their government enforce laws which are contrary to our own notions. By contrast, the Taliban are of the Afghan people, and they enforce the laws of the Afghan people and of Islam. Foreign nations, such as Canada, cannot.
  84. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: To Richard Roskell - but Sikhs have no ideology to impose their rule on the whole world, no do they make friends with Al-Queda who attacked USA, no do they plan togeather with bin-Laden to get Pakistani nukes and to show us all who is who. This women emancipation issue is less then 1% among real goals of NATO mission in Afganistan (that is to prevent Taliban spread to Pakistan where they would grab the nukes).
  85. Whitney Dodman from Waterloo, Canada writes: I think my posts are being deleted.
  86. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    I'll show you just how crazy our efforts in Afghanistan- backed by the point of a gun- truly are.

    Consider the event described in this story. Imagine that Canadian soldiers on patrol happened on the situation just prior to the young couple being executed. They typical Canadian response would be to try and prevent the teenagers from being executed. One can imagine Canadian soldiers doing everything they could to diplomatically and respectfully change the situation and save the couple.

    For their troubles, the Canadian soldiers would risk OUTRAGING the parents, family, friends and tribe of the couple they were trying to save. The Canadian soldiers- with good intentions of course- would be interfering in the tribal customs and the accepted course of justice. At best, those Afghans would see the Canadians as outsiders with bizarre ideas of how society must act. At worst, the Canadians will make deadly enemies of those Afghans who see their intervention as an attempt to destroy their centuries-old way of life.

    The situation described above is a metaphor for the entire invasion and occupation of Afghanistan- at least, that part of it which is ostensibly based on humanitarian goals.

    Ironically, there IS a force in Afghanistan which can successfully change customary practices such as this: that force is Islam. Islam is as deeply rooted in Afghanistan as are tribal customs. If a tribal custom contravenes Muslim law (as determined by Afghan clerics) there's a good chance that the tribal custom can be changed. And example follows.

  87. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Another societal norm in Afghanistan which grossly contravenes Western norms is "bacha bazi." This is the use of male children and young teenagers by grown men as surrogates for a woman... with all that implies. As unacceptable to us as that may be, bacha bazi is customary in Afghanistan.

    HOWEVER, during their time in power, the Taliban stopped bacha bazi. They decreed that it contravened Islam, and that no child could be used in this way. Overnight, the practice ended- at least visibly so. But when the Taliban were overthrown by the US and NATO, bacha bazi returned. It's common practice once again.

    These kinds of gross contradictions lie at the heart of the West's activities in Afghanistan.
  88. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Alex ALEX: Greetings

    " ... but social superstructure doesn't inevitably determines morals (and I was posting about it, right?) - the prove is you yourself - you live in USA, within americam social superstructure, albeit your moral is not anyway similar to americam mainstream .."

    Wrong again. Morality is also materially determined. Religions are nothing but socio-economic systems with spiritual icing. The Islam of Moses was for the shepherd economy, that of Jesus for the agrarian one, and Islam of Mohammed is for the trade based era (that we are in today). Moses was a shepherd, Jesus an artisan in Fertile Crescent, Mohammed a trader/businessman.

    I live in USA, but not by "American" values that are falling apart anyway. No-responsibility Corporation, positive interest rate, Income/Spending taxation, wastefulness is giving way to Full Responsibility, Zero Interest rates, Asset Taxation, Frugality, or literally to Islam. We are here to change the system. Join in.

  89. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: A report from Monday says that in Kohat the Taliban have tried and executed three men for raping an 8 year old boy. The men were said to have admitted the crime before Taliban and village elders and were shot by firing squad.

    "Taliban kill three in Kohat for allegedly assaulting boy ", DawnMediaGroup,
  90. Dave Hasler from Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Naramata . Your comments are excellent - however, they are an ancillary issue. I think the "moral" grounds for our involvement in Afghanistan have come to the fore because of how long we have been there.

    The correct reason we went to Afghanistan was to deal with the Al Qaeda problem. The Taliban were not on anyones radar here in the west except as a curiosity prior to 9-11 in any meaningful way.

    When the cold war ended, the west lost all interest in the Taliban and other formerly friendly mujhadeen. Had it not been for Al Qaeda and 9-11 we would have happily left this moth eaten dust bowl alone and the Taliban could have beheaded their way to glory forever.

    We didn't go to Afghanistan with the idea we were going to change their world. Somehow that morphed it's way to the fore and we are in the social engineering mode. The problem with this "confusion" is that Al Qaeda remains and their relationship with some of the Taliban is intact. The world seems no better off than before because the Osama bunch have moved elsewhere. We blew a chance to deal with them decisively in 2001 but GWB blew it. I doudt he ever appreciated the errors he made and was probably looking to Iraq all along.

    Meanwhile in Afghanistan NATO began to realize that the job of ridding themselves of Al Qaeda meant giving Afghanistan an alternative to the Taliban. Or at least that is the conclusion they seem to have come to. Hardliners resisted, there are some signs that there is a willingness to change - this protest is small but important in symbolism.

    So now we have a mess. What to do? Leave and let the Afghans sort it out is the most inticing possibility. This means the possible return of the Taliban to power - no a bad thing really if that is what Afghans really want. This still leaves us with the Al Qaeda problem and their possible return to Afghanistan.
  91. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: To Syed Abbas - again, thanks for your response, its my pleasure to speak to you - I ofcourse understand your point and what you mean by "we are here to change the system..." - here in Russia we understand sometimes those things which there in the West are not yet clear (despite it is vivid). I also aware about the fact that your intentions are based on your understanding of what is good for the mankind and for its Salvation - still, what was given as a revelation for arabs is good for arabs and those who accepted the teaching by their own will. We (at least I am speaking for Russians) were given the Word from Jesus - and you as a muslim know that The God ordered Him to judje us all in future (both Muslims and Christians), Koran also command to the muslim rulers to protect people of the Book (to whom Christians proudly belong) - territory of Islam is any place where muslims inhabit (as a majority) - so it is essential for our Salvation that each religion preval on its historicall territory (probably with the exeption when the whole nation becomes atheistic - then prothelitising is needed, right)....Please, in the process of your activity remember that despite some aspects of morals were defined by the God for various conditions - still the basics were defined by Him, not social and economic conditions automatically formulated those, as well as not humans were the sourse of morals, but the God. Best regards from St.Petersburg.
  92. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Dave Hasler: Greetings

    " ... I think the "moral" grounds for our involvement in Afghanistan have come to the fore because of how long we have been there ..."

    There were never a moral basis, and there will never be. States look after their interest. The reason to go into Afghanistan was to appease the Dubya Administration who stated clearly that if you are not with us, you are against us, so the Liberals buckled in.

    There is no moral basis for most of what we do. There is no moral basis for Income/Spending/Excise taxation. There is no moral basis for preventing free movement of goods, money, people, in and out of borders. There is no moral basis for borders/nations/trading blocks. That is why the system, full of self-imposed constraints, is falling apart.

    Soon see coming to your neighborhood the Natural System - Full Responsibility, Zero Interest Rates, Asset Taxation, Borderless World. Suitable morality will follow suit.

  93. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: to continie my point - by morals I mean high morals which a person follow even if he is not afraid to be punished by society, -so I am speaking Morals, not law or tribal morals (which even canibals had in their society)- hope it is clear -I mean Morals which were given as a word of God.
  94. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Alex ALEX: Greetings

    " ... so I am speaking Morals, not law or tribal morals (which even canibals had in their society)- hope it is clear -I mean Morals which were given as a word of God ..."

    Which god?

    The homo-morphic god of the old Testament whom Jacob/Israel wrestled to the ground and who acknowledged that Jacob was stronger than him?

    Or the homo-morphic family man god the Father who sent his son to be sacrificed?

    Or the Abstract External omnipotent god of the Koran with 99 virtues in infinite quantity?

    Or one of the 45 gods who live on Mt. Olympus?

    Or one of the million gods of the Hindu pantheon?

    Or the no-god god of the post-Confucians, the Buddhists, et al?

    Need I go on.

    Let us talk facts and reality. Religions are not open for discussion. So if you are going to invoke god, better talk to yourself.

  95. Dave Hasler from Canada writes: Greetings Syed Abbas from Seattle WA.

    There is a concept and plenty of biblical guidance as to what an ideal "christain society" should look like. I assume the same exists from the islamic POV.

    There is really no ideal islamic or christian state on the planet. No "model" of the total and practical application of the principles you profess and I am sure there is no lack of trying.

    The "christian" USA is really not "christian" at all and that is obvious despite how publically they proclaim it. Going to church once a week to have your sins forgiven doesn't translate well into running a nation as GWB showed quite clearly. Now he is gone and there is Obama who relies very little on proclaiming "christian values". The future for America seems brighter somehow.

    And what of the islamic world. There have been an endless streak of "fundimentalist" religious dictators who have attempted to transform countries to ideal religious states under their reign. Epic Failure ..............

    So why is this? There are plenty of professed holier than thou experts out there who are quite sure they have a more holy and correct way to run a society. They after all have the religious doctrine that is centuries old and "proven" somewhere - even if they can't quite show where.

    The problem is human intrepretation of god. We tend to get it wrong - quite regularly and no religion is immune from this failure.
  96. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: To Syed Abbas - ok, I'll talk to myselfe if you don't want to talk to me...Still, once your question is asked ("which God?"), I'll give you the answer - "There is only one God - Jews, Christians and Muslims know Him - you want me to give his name in Russian language? - you exactly understand which God I mean -He is the ONE,and for us (Orthodox Christians) he reveals Himself in The Holy Trinity which is The God Father, The God Son (Jesus Christ) and The Holly Spirit.
  97. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes: Dave Hasler: Greetings

    " ... ideal "christain society" .... I assume the same exists from the islamic POV ... what of the islamic world. There have been an endless streak of "fundimentalist" religious dictators ... no religion is immune from this failure .."

    Well said. Corruption in Islam started while Mohammed's body was still warm. Muslims have degraded their god from External Abstract to a more Talmudic homo-morphic one, and their prophet to an illiterate pedophile. With that base you can not go far.

    Alex ALEX: Greetings

    " ... There is only one God - Jews, Christians and Muslims know Him .."

    There may be one Creator who made the heavens and the earth and all in between, but Judahists, Christians, and Muslims believe in different gods that they have fabricated to suit their whims. Whatsmore, even the Shia and Sunni Muslims believe in different gods that were fabricated by them. If everyone believed in the same god we would not have the problems we have.

  98. Alex ALEX from Russian Federation writes: To Syed Abbas - if terminology is so important to you, ok, it was the Creator who gave us morals. But English language generally eqate this words "The God" and "The Creator"- as for those definitions of 'who means what' by those words - it is an endless conversation - volumes are written about it - but you understand exactly what I mean using those words as sinonims (what's the English for diferent words with the same meaning?). Best regards.
  99. Michael Rudin from United States writes: Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States You say soon as a Natural System - Full Responsibility, Zero Interest Rates, Asset Taxation, Borderless World. Suitable morality will follow suit.
    So far you dream exists no where in any Islamic neighborhood.
  100. Roman Spears from Canada writes:

    The Taliban continue to prove themselves a satanic organization. Their morals and ethics are based on hatred and debasement and they need to be caged lke the animals they are.
  101. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Roman Spears, Note my post of 1pm. I take it you think they were evil to execute the three men who raped the 8 year old boy.
  102. Roman Spears from Canada writes:

    I am against capital punishment - period. The fact that it was brutal. sadistic and carried out against young lovers makes it so contrary to anything wholesome or good that it offends the sensibilities to even imaqine any sane person attempting to rationalize this action.
  103. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Michael Rudin:

    " ... a Natural System - Full Responsibility, Zero Interest Rates, Asset Taxation, Borderless World. Suitable morality will follow suit. So far you dream exists no where in any Islamic neighborhood ..."

    Dear Distant Cousin from Judah, Greetings

    Leave Islamic neighborhood alone. The Natural System exists right here in Seattle in my backyard.

    There is no American Law that prevents me from taking Full Responsibility, having Zero Interest, no Income/Spending taxation, and Free movement.

    Microsoft for over 20 years lived in interest free regime under Christian Bill Gates until your Judahist relative Ballmer started assuming debt. Expect Microsoft to self-annihilate itself.

    Reduce Income/Spending, and avoid taxation.

    No one stops me from moving between Singapore / Dubai / Canada / USA. It is a borderless world.

    For Believers, the Natural System exists everywhere. But for you, Dear Rudin, it will exist nowhere. I pity you.

  104. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Roman Spears, "rationalize" The two would have been killed by their families anywhere in Afghanistan. Honour killings are in no way unique to the Taliban or Afghanistan. By only pointing to those carried out by the Taliban you sweep the rest under the carpet.
  105. Roman Spears from Canada writes:

    Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Roman Spears, "rationalize" The two would have been killed by their families anywhere in Afghanistan. Honour killings are in no way unique to the Taliban or Afghanistan. By only pointing to those carried out by the Taliban you sweep the rest under the carpet.


    Nonsense. By ignoring this case you sweep the others under the carpet.

    Stop it here today and then you know you can stop it elsewhere tomorrow. Stop the stoning of eloping couples and you have made a stride against burning brides with small doweries. Make a start here and you can stop the killing of women for sadistic pleasure anywhere. That is if you are really interested in stopping it at all.
  106. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Roman Spears, "By ignoring this case you sweep the others under the carpet." LOL It's all over the news. How is it being ignored? The odious part is that the victims are being used to score political points. Murdered by her family, the villagers and the Taliban and then used by westerners to push their agenda.

    Here's a link to a CNN report with video of a Kurdish girl being murdered by a mob for having run off with the wrong guy. This is the cleaned up version, CNN via YouTube,
  107. pik scott from Canada writes: And just think the left in this country does not give a rats a$$ about these people ,you all make me sick.
  108. Michael Rudin from United States writes: Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States Good use of nuance, borderless society equals free movement.
    Your overt anti Semitism, blame all Jews for everything only shows you to be a narrow minded Mohammadist.
  109. Ed Blond from Spokane, United States writes: Our biggest error in dealing with countries like Afghanistan is in subscribing to the idea that, inside, they're just like us and they think like we think, but they just dress funny. The fact is, their worldview, their philosophy, their fundamental beliefs and desires are quite different from our own. Our culture values life, fairness and mercy. Theirs values death and an arbitrary standard of strict justice without mercy, based on their interpretation of the Koran. They don't want to be like us, they have no desire for democratic government, human rights (other than as they interpret them), or for our lifestyles. There's little we can do to change that. Despite our revulsion at their practices and their abuses of women and non-Muslims, it would be in the interests of western civilization to build a large fence around the perimeter of the country, shut them off with an interdict, and keep them from polluting the rest of the world.
  110. Syed Abbas from Seattle WA, United States writes:

    Ivan Wilson: Greetings

    " ... ramblings of dirty arab male - they are all primitive sodomites at heart .."

    Sorry mate. Gay Parade is a Toronto specialty, not a Dubai one.

    Michael Rudin: Greetings dear distant cousin from Judah

    " ... Good use of nuance, borderless society equals free movement. Your overt anti Semitism ..."

    I have heard of self-hating Jews, but I am no self-hating Abrahamite. Our branch from Ismael loves ourselves. We are self-loving Semites. Eat your heart out.


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