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Gay community welcomes Oscar victory

SIMON HOUPT

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:55 PM EST 23/02/09

Advocates hope awards fuel support for same-sex marriage battle in California ...Read the full article

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  1. Caper . from Canada writes: Did anybody really think that Hollywood wouldn't find a way to give this film an Oscar? It never mattered the quality of the film or the acting. Hollywood has become more and more just a political arm of the left. We saw this with Michael Moore and Al Gore. This group of actors are far and away really left-wing and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what they are trying to do.
  2. Mikey Gault from The Cheap Seats, Canada writes: Clearly, not many blacks are eligible to vote on Oscar winners.
  3. J. Michael from Canada writes: Thanks Caper - You have highlighted a truth!
  4. Stewart Mawdsley from Fort Smith, Canada writes: Come on Caper, the film won two Oscars on merit. Certainly best original screenplay, and the Best Actor award was very tightly contested, Mickey Rourke did most of the damage himself with his profanity laced speech at another awards ceremony.
  5. Grey Geese from Canada writes: Pierre Santa Ana I second your thoughts. G&M is not a forum for hate and ignorance.
  6. diane marie from calgary, alberta from Canada writes: Karol Karolak:-- Re: T.O. Take a hike, Karol. We've had our fill of your obsessions, I think.

    Back to the topic. The arts have always been the means by which the oppressed seek justice. If some perceive that Hollywood is 'the political arm of the left', you can always comfort yourselves with the thought that sport, most of 'the church', and the military have always being the political arm of the right.
  7. Cliff Pallette from Canada writes: Sean Penn's speech was incredible and screenwriter Dustin Lance Black's comments were great as well. Society hopefully advanced a few steps last night. The end of homophobic bigotry is several generations away, but last night's glimpse into the future was nice to see.
  8. Sean Connery from Canada writes: Some guy named Vern was running around all morning in a park near my office holding a 'We are all gay now' sign.
  9. diane marie from calgary, alberta from Canada writes: Sean Connery:-- If you have issues with Vern's political views, then have the courage to express them.
  10. J. Michael from Canada writes: Cliff Pallette - I went and had a listen to Sean Penn's speech after reading your comment. I agree, it was incredible; incredibly pathetic! He is a stooge - saying what the people want to hear - a coward - a pathetic coward. While his country decays from within, he stands there and cheers it on.
  11. K. M. from Canada writes: 007 funny! I thought 'we were all Georgians'or maybe 'we are all georges' I'm not sure.... but I am sure that Mickey Rourke got robbed of an Academy Award, so they, Academy could make a political statement. I don't begrudge Sean Penn or the film an award I just don't quite get it.
    Didn't the Hollywood Penn Oprahs etc help get Obama elected and then stood by him while he did NOT defend Gay marriage?.... And why hasn't ANYONE commented on how WRONG the DARK KNIGHT is it is a pathetic piece of commercial violence that exposes more people to death , destruction ,and gore . I really can't figure the Academy out I perfer the old TV Batman POW BAM fun and games to blowing up hospitals, ferry boats & on & on. Horrible
  12. diane marie from calgary, alberta from Canada writes: J. Michael:-- In what way does human love and compassion indicate decay? Decay is evidenced by bigotry and hatred. No one requires that you be anything that you aren't, just that you accept that others may not be what you are. Do unto others, live and let live - that kind of thing.
  13. Randy G from Windsor, Canada writes: Wow. The Conservative hate machine marches on.

    Sean Penn won the Oscar fair and square. It's probably due in part to the fact that he also chose not to annoy the people likely to be voting in his category, unlike a certain other nominee. That other nominee was nominated essentially for playing himself, whereas Sean Penn had to become a specific other person, no room for mistakes.

    While not the most eloquent speaker, I appreciate that he used his opportunity to stand up for real family values. He shows us what it is to be a real man in 2009 -- generous and humble in receipt of his award, and standing up for what is right.

    I also applaud Dustin Lance Black for his words on receiving his Oscar, which echo Milk's own words from three decades ago. Our (all of our) gay, lesbian, and transgender youth are treasures. They are not 'less than'. You don't throw them away. You love your kids. You give them hope. It's a simple message that the haters are all too eager to forget.

    And, to the author of the article, 'equal rights federally' has never meant civil unions. It means marriage, adoption, non-discrimination, hate crimes laws, and open military service.
  14. l m from Canada writes: Can we all please knock off with the Conservative = Homophobe crap. I am both Gay and Libertarian which these days means I'm inclined towards the Conservatives. The homophobes on this site are just that - homophobes. I can tell you from long, long experience that homophobes come in all colours, sizes, genders, ethnicities and they span the political spectrum. And most of the craziest homophobes come from the extremes of both the Left and the Right. Too bad the extremists on both sides now seem to be dominating the discussions everywhere. It's our Weimar moment, I guess, and we all know where that lead.
  15. Cliff Pallette from Canada writes: The Right Reverend J. Michael Bigot will now speak from the Pulpit of Ignorance and Intolerance.

    Lock the church doors honey and please be patient folks as this is going to be a long night of utter stupidity.
  16. Canadian born liberal-conservative Muslim from Ottawa, Canada writes: Classical Liberals need to be ruling this world and governing every country on the face of planet Earth. That way, homosexuals would live in peace and blend into society. Gays have no effect on you so shut up and live your life. Homophobes are truly stupid people. I think Homophobes who disturb the peaceful lives of homosexuals should be sent to jail. We shouldn't have the peace broken in our society.
  17. Ronnieblue Acacia from Edmonton, Canada writes: Caper and Michael from Canada,

    Did you guys even have the courage to see Milk? Your bias illustrates how narrow minded you must be. Did you see any of the nominated films and the actors? I bet the late Charlton Heston and John Wayne were your type of child hood heroes, a 'man's man'? And it isn't the so called 'lefties' that have set in motion the dire economic turmoil, but the no holds barred free enterprise 'masters of the universe' that say trust me and the trickle down effect of spreading prosperity to everyone while lining their own pockets with bonuses whether they turn a profit or not. Smoke and mirrors, masters of the ponzi schemes.
  18. diane marie from calgary, alberta from Canada writes: J Michael:-- We've had same-sex marriage now for a couple of years, if memory serves, and I've not noted any decline in the number of couples getting married, nor an increase in those getting divorced. Therefore, the institution of marriage has not been put at risk by the same-sex version of same. If anything, the desire for some loving gay couples to tie the knot reinforces the state of marriage, which in the hands of heterosexuals has been having a tough time. As for 'unhealthy lifestyles', all you have to do is spurn them. If it were simply a case of promoting lifestyles to children, I'm sure that you would have long since been able to successfully keep women in their place (pregnant, barefoot, in the kitchen).
  19. J. Michael from Canada writes: diane marie from calgary - Yes, all things in our country since the introduction of 'gay marriage', only three years ago, are just running peachy!

    Anyway, you still are either ignoring or missing the point.
  20. l m from Canada writes: J. Michael: You're an extremist nut. But thanks for proving my point.
  21. Ronnieblue Acacia from Edmonton, Canada writes: J. Michael,

    You're probably a very decent guy but your ignorance is truly astounding. How many gays have you actually met and really understood what they are about? You probably have a loved one or relative who is gay and would not come out to you because of your ignorant views. Its not a lifestyle, its a life and if you could even remotely understand the hate and hurt they experience as a young child into adulthood you might understand they do not choose their lifestyle. Who would intentionally choose their sexual preference? And do you expect any normal human being to contain their true feelings and become celibate? Be more realistic and understanding.
  22. J. Michael from Canada writes: Cliff Pallette from Canada - I have said all I need to say to expose this sham.

    I hear people's deep arguments: bigot, homophobic, the Reverend, etc... We live in a world where such sound bites actually convince many people; hey, why bother with the facts?

    By the way, do I hate seeing people's lives ruined; yes; do I hate seeing communities ruined; yes. Does that mean I hate; I guess the answer is yes. However, what about people that care about no one but themselves, what does that make them? Loving and kind?!!!
  23. james c from Canada writes: l m from Canada writes: Can we all please knock off with the Conservative = Homophobe crap. I am both Gay and Libertarian which these days means I'm inclined towards the Conservatives. The homophobes on this site are just that - homophobes. I can tell you from long, long experience that homophobes come in all colours, sizes, genders, ethnicities and they span the political spectrum. And most of the craziest homophobes come from the extremes of both the Left and the Right. ----- agree with you. and while left winger/liberals claim to have the lock on 'tolerance,' their comments disparaging anyone who thinks differently than they do (conservatives) go a long way in revealing who many of the intolerant ones really are.
  24. William Hanlon from London, Canada writes: Dear J. Michael:

    When you can come up with one verifiable fact or express one clear and logical argument, instead of ranting on and on in such a typically hysterical fashion, maybe it won't come across as hypocritical 'crocodile tears' when you demand respectful arguments from others.

    But it won't matter what anyone else says to you anyway, since you are so clearly listening only to the voices inside your head. Talk about mentally unhealthy 'lifestyles'..... I think you're going to have an aneurysm!
  25. Edward Carson from Canada writes: 1) Anyone who believes anything done at the Oscars is fair and square needs a headshake.
    2) Regardless of how good this movie or Penn's performance was there was little doubt he would not win due to the potential stink up - and the fact that the Gay community has already started politicising this proves it
    3) Oscars also tend to be retro-rewarded or statement rewarded. Many winners have gotten the statue for a previous movie that many thought the actor/actress was ripped off on by not winning.
  26. robert quinn from Japan writes: Good title for a gay flick. Had the lead character's name been Milt, though, it would have been perfect.
  27. BJ Homes from Ontario, Canada writes: The anti-gay remarks posted above are so tiring, but I have to remind myself that it took over 100 years to abolish slavery and for women to obtain the right to vote. People don't relinguish their position of power easily.
  28. Cliff Pallette from Canada writes: BJ Holmes, you're absolutely correct.

    We now carefully monitor Canadian Imams not to preach hatred and violence towards fellow Canadians and yet evangelical Christian preachers are allowed to spew this anti-homosexual crap from their pulpits. And worse, we give them tax dollars to do it.

    And J Michael absorbs this poison every week and probably passes it on to his kids. And thinks it's correct!

    The acceptance of homosexuals as equal human beings is coming, but like so many other advancements made by the downtrodden before them, it takes time.
  29. Catherine Lugg from United States writes: Just a fast correction to the article:

    While civil marriage is regulated by the individual states, under the US Constitution's 'full faith and credit' clause, contracts legally entered consenting parties recognized by one state, must be recognized by all. This why the federal 'Defense of Marriage Act' and 'state level Constitutional bans on 'gay marriage' probably fail US Constitutional muster.

    Remember: legal marriage in the US is a contract, just like a business deal. It is NOT a religious document, although many people conflate the two. Furthermore, religious marriages that LACK a state-issued contract are legally invalid--not recognized nor sancation by the state.

    What advocates of gay marriage want is equal protection under the law, which is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution (which was passed after the US Civil War). In the US, one either has equal citizenship rights or one does not. Attacks on LGBT people seeking equal rights protections is an attack of the very structure of US law.
  30. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: Fox News put it into perspective. Penn is an activist except when he visits his world leader buddies in whose countries homosexuals are killed. Penn = hypocrite.....
  31. Deas, She Wrote from New York, United States writes: Applause to Sean Penn for winning the Oscar! I thought his immersion into that character was amazing.

    I look forward to the time when it will be normal for gays to marry, and when the hate-worshipping fundies realize that their 'beliefs' and their hatred are irrelevant to the rest of us. They can 'believe' whatever they want, they just have no power over us.

    Peace.
  32. D G from Canada writes: Deas - it is already normal. In Canada. In Spain. In the Netherlands...
  33. D G from Canada writes: Having grown up in the seventies, all I can say is that I am SOOOOOO THANKFUL that my parents were the exact opposite of J. Michael.
  34. John Ridout from Canada writes: I agree that we should not be 'promoting' homosexuality lifestyles. But neither should we be promoting heterosexuality lifestyles. We should be promoting those higher values that ensure that we can lead lives that free us to discover our deepest Self, including our sexulaity, and then to live openly and faithfully to the 'who we are' in community as equals and without fear of reprisal.
  35. anonymouse Z from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: diane marie - Here is a quote that holds no punches:

    'Homosexuality is unhealthy. Not in the way that cigarettes and booze are unhealthy, but in the way that drinking a shot of turpentine every Wednesday afternoon while perusing real estate catalogues for houses near nuclear waste dumps is unhealthy.'

    Please give me one reason why it is loving and compassionate to promote such a life style to our children or anyone for that matter?

    I suppose you think we should also teach kids how to smoke and maybe do heroin? That is if they are inclined that way - these would be more loving things to do!!!
    ________________________
    Comparing smoking to homosexuality is beyond idiotic. As to the quote, who quoted it? Some homophobe or religios zealot? If you must argue, use rational ideas rather than quotes.

    What is wrong with love as long as it's between two consenting adults? Oh I forgot, it offends a bunch of control freaks.
  36. John Ridout from Canada writes: To: Bill Garrison, Christ said nothing about sexuality let alone homosexuality. He stayed out of the bedroom. God did not say homosexuality was a sin. God does regard being sexually unfaithful to oneself (our true Self) and one's neighbour (adultery) as sinful. And of course so is being unfaithful to God. Unfaithfulness is sinful because it shows us just how much we are living selfishly in ourselves for ourselves and separate or apart from universal life in God.
  37. D G from Canada writes: Bill Garrison says he cannot judge homosexuals for their sin because he is a sinner too.... blah blah blah. Could have foold me Bill because it is pretty clear that you are judging from the rooftops.

    You should go be buddies with J. Michael so you both can teach your children to be self loathing and miserable because if either of you end up with gay children, that is where they are headed.
  38. hangin right from Van, Canada writes: J.Micheal: seriously , do you have any sense inside that head of yours?
    dear dear J.Micheal , ya Reaaaally Need to get out and get an education on life and explore reality .

    snap out of your delusion and unhealthy mental direction , its ruining your braincells not to mention your future.

    Love is a human trait and it is for everyone to share and express and Marriage is something that belongs to everyone , not to be controlled by the few.
    Marriage is union of hearts and souls and minds and is to be made available to all Equally should they chose to be married.


    homosexuality is a Fact of life and existence , not a sin or anything bad.

    I watched the show with a bar full of people and when they announced Sean Penn as winner, the whole room erupted in a amazingly pure sound of love and acceptance and recognition of reality , ya could feel it vibrate right through your being .

    to those who are so upset by the forward movement of equality , you have nothing to fear but letting go of historical practices that have kept you apart form others.
  39. Jack Hallam from Salt Spring Island, Canada writes: It is amusing and sad to read all the incredible ignorance from the homophobes. Being gay is NOT a lifestyle choice, gay men are born gay, there is lots of scientific evidence. Dr. Blanchard of the Clarke Institute has shown that gay men have a statistically significant greater number of older brothers. My father's younger brother was gay, I had a brother two years older, my father's youngest brother a real heterosexual stud had with his third wife a straight son followed by two gays sons. There is probably a genetic component also involved as my mother, born in 1893 was an unacknowledged lesbian and my cousin's mother's brother was gay. On our island of 10,000 residents we have about 400 plus gays and lesbians, over 30 same sex married couples, two of the married guys were named citizens of the year in 2006 and the following year New Businessmen of the year, I do know two lesbian couples were one of the couple made a choice: one had escaped from a very abusive heterosexual marriage, the other had been sexually assaulted by her clergyman father. Last Sept. we had our first very successful Pride Parade. About 400 participants and about 1400 spectators, most applauding a few cheering. Almost all of us have several or many straight friends. In our parade I road in the back seat van of the last van, in the front seat was our Anglican priest we both cannot walk any distance, the priest's wife walked near the front holding a sign which said 'Homophobia hurts the Bigots too!' CANADA, SPAIN, THE NETHERLANDS, SOUTH AFRICA all have legal same-sex marriages and the sky has not fallen in fact it has a positive effect on the productivity of their countries as their energy is devoted to more productive endeavours. All the foregoing is from an 80 year old zoologist with a PH.D. fro, U. of T. 1974. So I know first hand of the bigotry and its harmful effects on gays and lesbians in the 50s, through 80's. I've learned that lots of homophobes are also racists .
  40. Mike G from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: diane marie - Here is a quote that holds no punches:

    'Homosexuality is unhealthy. Not in the way that cigarettes and booze are unhealthy, but in the way that drinking a shot of turpentine every Wednesday afternoon while perusing real estate catalogues for houses near nuclear waste dumps is unhealthy.'

    ----------------

    50 years ago, the quote would probably have read:

    'Being black is unhealthy. Not in the way that cigarettes and booze are unhealthy, but in the way that drinking a shot of turpentine every Wednesday afternoon while perusing real estate catalogues for houses near nuclear waste dumps is unhealthy.'
  41. J Cox from Vancouver, Canada writes: For what it's worth, I thought he deserved the Oscar.
  42. Mr. Coffee from Victoria, Canada writes: Neo-cons should put away that preachy weapon known as the Bible. Gay marriage will never be a threat to my 18-year marriage to my smoking hot wife, so grow up. To quote Seinfeld: Not that there's anything wrong with it.
  43. Kim Philby from Canada writes: Let's flip the coin: our society overwhelmingly 'promotes' (if you insist on using that word) straight relationships in movies, on TV, billboards, magazines, etc. So, how come all that propaganda for the straight side hasn't made all the gays straight?

    So, let's stop all the baloney about the danger of promoting the gay lifestyle. You are what you are. And, since you are what you are, let's also stop the hypocritical baloney about hating the sin, not the sinner.

    In any case, I look forward to seeing Milk. he was an interesting political figure, and Penn is an outstanding actor.
  44. Valkyrie 23 from Guelph, Canada writes: I'm glad so many people have spoke out against J. Michael and his blatant prejudice and hate-mongering. You know, J. Michael, that everyone here knows you're an idiot, right? That all these 'facts' you proclaim are not only lies, but hurtful, disturbing lies. My roommate is gay, and he is very safe, very healthy, and in a monogamous relationship. He's just a person like me, my boyfriend, and all the people on these board, except YOU, J. Michael, because you're a bigot and a homophobe. YOU and people like you are the reason the world is in the social state it is in, not just because you're a homophobe, but because you represent bigotry and close-mindedness. I would never want to meet you in real life, and I really hope that, if you have any kids, they are gay. I'd feel sorry for them to have to put up with your crap, but maybe it would teach you tolerance. Actually, I really hope you don't have kids. Poor brainwashed things.
  45. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: 'William Hanlon from London - You have to be kidding - the information available on negative effects of gay sex is overwhelming. Out of the 100,000 plus articles available, here is just one from the World Net Daily - it highlights conclusions from the Surgeon General Warnings.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=61856

    I'm afraid it is the people on your side of the issue that are ignoring the facts....'

    J. Michael, I read your link.

    And, as I suspected, you are distorting the article to promote your point of view.

    There is NO mention of the Surgeon General, except in the title of the article.

    The author of the article, Matt Barber, is the policy director (cultural issues) for Concerned Women of America.

    Whose stated purpose is:

    'We are the nation's largest public policy women's organization with a rich 29-year history of helping our members across the country bring Biblical principles into all levels of public policy.' (http://www.cwfa.org/about.asp)

    Next time, try quoting more accurately from a less biased source.
  46. D G from Canada writes: If God did indeed make me than he/she made me gay. Nuff said.
  47. Mike G from Canada writes: Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes:
    Next time, try quoting more accurately from a less biased source.

    ----------------

    Calling WorldNetDaily biased is kind of like saying Stalin was bad, no? ;)
  48. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Mike G from Canada writes: 'Calling WorldNetDaily biased is kind of like saying Stalin was bad, no? ;) '

    Agreed. But I was trying to be polite.
  49. Steve is reporting LIVE from the US / Canuckistani border from Canada writes:

    Personally I find the whole thing ghey
  50. Betty L from ottawa, Canada writes: Poke out the nests and block up the holes!
  51. Megan Ratcliffe from Canada writes: For the record, I am straight. But, I have a close friend, and a close relative who are homosexual. I DO NOT believe that it is a choice, because no sane human would CHOOSE a life that may well be filled with bigotry and sadness. I don't understand what the big deal is, with homosexuality. Is it because somehow, people think homosexuality is contagious? To anyone who actually believes this I say 'get a clue'. People are people., Gay, straight or transgendered. FYI another awesome movie that brought these issues into the Hollywood spotlight was Boys Don't Cry starring Hilary Swank.
  52. ruth richardson from Flesherton, Canada writes: BJ from Ontario writes....

    'The anti-gay remarks posted above are so tiring, but I have to remind myself that it took over 100 years to abolish slavery and for women to obtain the right to vote. People don't relinguish their position of power easily. '
    Posted 24/02/09 at 8:12 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Commen

    So well said BJ.....the time WILL come, let us be patient and perservere!
  53. Steve is reporting LIVE from the US / Canuckistani border from Canada writes:

    Response to BJ from Ontario writes....

    'The anti-gay remarks posted above are so tiring, but I have to remind myself that it took over 100 years to abolish slavery and for women to obtain the right to vote. People don't relinguish their position of power easily. '

    ----------------------------------------------

    Shhhhhhh! Many in the black community believes that slavery still exists.
    Don't believe me, ask them?
    Hard to keep the social activist thing going without a victim.
    Case in point. Al Sharpton upset over last weeks cartoon of the monkey and the stimulus package.
    Sharpton would be without his favorite thing in life without the controversy... the limelight.
    Much like Spicolli.
  54. tim white from calgary, Canada writes: Calling all homophobes... it's not like someone is trying to recruit you to a homo-club or something. They just want to have the SAME rights as you.

    Interesting how biggots try so hard, yet repeatedly fail, to legitimize their ignorance.

    Go Penn, go.
  55. J. Michael from Canada writes: Bottom-line - If one hated people that practice a gay lifestyle, then one would encourage them to continue their lifestyle.

    Clearly most people on this post actually care about no one but themselves.

    Have a wonderful day!
  56. freeheeler from AB from calgary, Canada writes: J. Michael...

    WHAT? You're bizarre.
  57. A K from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: William Hanlon from London - You have to be kidding - the information available on negative effects of gay sex is overwhelming. Out of the 100,000 plus articles available, here is just one from the World Net Daily - it highlights conclusions from the Surgeon General Warnings.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=61856

    ....

    Worldnetdaily? Not like you're trying to shove a high-risk choice down peoples' throats, or anything.

    And YOU'RE saving our children from the terrible gays?
    ...
  58. Mike G from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: Bottom-line - If one hated people that practice a gay lifestyle, then one would encourage them to continue their lifestyle.

    Clearly most people on this post actually care about no one but themselves.

    ------------

    And freedom is slavery! And ignorance is strength! And opposites are the same!
  59. Cliff Pallette from Canada writes: Also found on WorldNetDaily was this:

    Find out the Bible's juicy details about sex and homosexuality in 'Shocked by the Bible: The Most Astonishing Facts You've Never Been Told' personally autographed!

    Now that's a reputable site for factual journalism.
  60. hangin right from Van, Canada writes: given the state of things in these times ,
    there is work to be doing and helping one another and one of the easiest pathways to do that is to Provide the People with their Full Equal Rights and Freedoms .

    Healing has to begin somewhere and sometime and its Time to begin helping one another by respecting each other and let go of past historical practices that have kept people apart from each other and dividing families .
    Equal Rights and Freedoms(that includes Equal Marriage)are keys for everyone and the children and their futures, whether one likes it or not.
  61. Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: With Obama speaking out against same-sex marriage, how does the lefty brain trust reconcile this with their system of beliefs and their love of The One?

    It saddens me that so many liberals have suddenly flip-flopped and are speaking out against gay marriage by supporting Obama.
  62. Luke Powell from Vancouver, Canada writes: The issue behind the battle between so-called 'anti-gay' and 'pro-gay' camps is whether or not homosexuality is a choice. Although the jury's still out (technically), there is no shortage of evidence that individuals cannot choose their sexual orientation; however, neither is homosexuality genetic (although in the case of homosexual men, there is some evidence that genetics may play a role).

    A recent study (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0801566105v1, or http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/jun/16/neuroscience.psychology) has shown that the source of homosexuality could very well be a result of different hormonal balances fetuses are exposed to when gestating. For those who would prefer not to wade through the jargon-y abstract, the study compared brain scans of 4 groups - heterosexual men and women and homosexual men and women. The scans were focused on areas of the brain known not to come under the influences of learned behaviour (i.e. their structure is 'locked in' from infancy). They showed that hetero men and lesbians had remarkably similar patterns of brain activity, and hetero women and gay men also showed very similar patterns.

    Since any genetic explanations of homosexuality have been largely discarded because of a complete lack of evidence among lesbians, the authors concluded that hormonal differences during early brain development is the likely cause. The same authors have undertaken a study of newborns to determine whether or not 'brain symmetry' can be used to predict sexual orientation. The evidence in favour of this is actually quite compelling. It will be interesting to see where this goes in the next 10 years.
  63. Richard Wright from Canada writes: 'Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: With Obama speaking out against same-sex marriage, how does the lefty brain trust reconcile this with their system of beliefs and their love of The One?

    It saddens me that so many liberals have suddenly flip-flopped and are speaking out against gay marriage by supporting Obama.'

    The answer is simple - unlike right wingers the 'left' thinks for themself. Obama can be against it all he wants - that isn't going to change my view or any other lefty's view. Not to mention there is a ton of evidence to suggest that Obama is actually in favour of same-sex marriage - he just doesn't want to publically state this for fear of backlash from those against it.

    What is this flip flopping by the way? And why can't we speak out against the one? I don't like everything about Obama. Just as I hope you don't like everything about Harper. No one is perfect and no one party or person can possibly 100% reflect in every single way the exact opinions and beliefs of all the people who support them. I would have that would be rather obvious.
  64. Private Person from Toronto, Canada writes: Luke Powell says 'the issue' between homophobes and others hinges on whether it's a choice. I suggest he maybe wrong. There is another possiblity. What if it IS a choice and there's no moral reason to choose one way or another?

    If I could take a pill which would make me straight when I awake tomorrow and if it had no other side effects, I would absolutely, certainly not take it.

    You all can debate til the cows come home. I don't care why I am who I am. As Neil Diamond sang, I Am, I Said.

    There will always be people who place an unhealthily high value on conformity and uniformity. They will tell you about the 'unhealthiness' of gay sexual practices but they are silent on the vast increases in STIs among heterosexual Canadian servicemen. They believe that AIDS is mostly a gay thing and therefore there is a moral aspect to it. They are silent on the epidemic among women in Africa.

    May I gently suggest that some are beyond reach? For those who find my first paragraphs interesting, I'm interested in a spirited on-topic discussion.

    Forgive my anonymity but take heart: I always use this name, exactly as it appears herein.
  65. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Edward Carson from Brampton, Canada writes: 'John Ridout - actually, according to the Bible, God did call homosexuality a sin. Leviticus 18.22 states 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination.'...' And now for some fun facts! Nowhere in the Bible is it explained what behaviour is forbidden: is the behavior forbidden to ancient Israelites, or modern-day Jews, or all males regardless of their religion, or some combination of the preceeding? Unfortunately, there is no consensus on the meaning of this verse. Many people tend to select that interpretation that most closely reinforces their initial beliefs about the Bible and homosexual behavior. Some later translations: ESV: (English Standard Version): 'You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is abomination.' KJV: (King James Version): 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination'. LB: (Living Bible): 'Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin' Net Bible: 'You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.' NIV: (New International Version) 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.' NLT: (New Living Translation): 'Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.' RSV: (Revised Standard Version): 'You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.' The word 'homosexual' was first used in the very late in 19th century CE. There was no Hebrew word that meant 'homosexual.' Thus, whenever the word is seen in an English translation of the Bible, one should be wary that the translators might be inserting their own prejudices into the text. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh5.htm)
  66. Private Person from Canada writes: One thing is common to all religions. Among Christians, it is known as the Golden Rule. It is also in the Torah, The Koran and the central scripture of all the great religions.

    Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

    A clearer command against bigotry I cannot imagine.
  67. Helen J from Australia writes: Whether you choose to believe in Him or not, this is what the Word of God has to say on the matter: Romans 1:18-27 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
  68. Robert Waddell from Toronto, Canada writes: IMO Sean did a great job and deserved the Oscar just on acting merit but unfortunately the Oscars have become a political tool. Brokeback Mountain all over again only this time the nomination wasn't done purely because of the controversial topic. To suggest this will help legalize gay marriage is pretty foolish. It's a movie for God's sake. Those who're against gay marriage are not likely to see the movie and so the movie will do little to change the minds of objectors. On the gay marriage subject....I don't understand why when someone disagrees with gay marriage they are immediately labelled homophobic. To many of the older people marriage is associated with the church and is a union to be entered into between a man and a women. What's wrong with respecting that definition? Why is it that the term marriage must be used by homosexuals when describing their relationship? Why are we as a society expected to re-define marriage to accomodate 3% of the population? I believe that homosexual couples should be afforded all the legal rights that heterosexual couples have but would prefer they come up with a term other than marriage to describe their union. Is it wrong that I prefer that the traditional definition of marriage be maintained?
  69. BJ Homes from Ontario, Canada writes: Helen J from Australia. You cherry-pick biblical phrases while ignoring the central message of love to justify your prejudice against homosexuals. God created Adam and Eve, who had three sons, which means that the rest of us were created through incest. Are you suggesting that the Word of God means we should all practice incest?
  70. J. Michael from Canada writes: Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: 'Interesting J. Michael??? So you believe you could be taught to get an erect penis at the sight of a naked man?'

    No more than he could be taught the same while looking at a five year old or a sheep in the field!

    Are you aware that humans actually have a brain?
  71. Toxic Planet from Corrupt to the core, Canada writes:
    Go america! After Obama ultimately fails, the next president of the USA will be gay, he/she couldnt possibly be any worse than the last several USA presidents.
  72. Mike G from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: 'Interesting J. Michael??? So you believe you could be taught to get an erect penis at the sight of a naked man?'

    No more than he could be taught the same while looking at a five year old or a sheep in the field!

    -------------

    So if you agree that homosexuality isn't a choice (since it can't be taught), why are you so violently against it?
  73. Helen J from Australia writes: BJ: Where did you read that I had a prejudice against homosexuals? I am merely quoting the Word of God. But you could hardly call quoting a whole section from Romans 'cherry-picking', unless of course it disturbs you.

    Of course the grandchildren of Adam and Eve are another issue. Briefly, since Adam and Eve were created by the hand of God they were genetically perfect. In order for the race to get started there had to be at least one brother-sister marriage. In later generations these marriages would come to be recognised as genetically dangerous, and so were prohibited.
  74. A K from Canada writes: Helen J
    ...

    That might be compelling, if only....
    .
  75. Scott Gordon from BC, Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: 'People are people., Gay, straight or transgendered' Why stop there? How about murderers, rapists, paedophiles, thieves, .... All individuals make choices. Some choices are good and should be honoured and encouraged, some are not so good and should be discouraged – is that too difficult to understand?'
    Looks like you have no gay people in your life who are gay (that you know of). If you did, you would realize that it is not a choice. You are a dinosaur J. michael....get out of the 70's.
  76. Doug Dewan from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada - I don't know where to begin with you, you're pretty entertaining. You hold up health issues as your reason to hate gay people...I'm assuming you mean anal sex? Just so you know, hetrosexuals also have anal sex...and by that argument you should then have no problem at all with Gay Lesbian Women as of course, they wouldn't be having anal sex but you seem to lump them all together, which makes me think you're just afraid.....afraid of what you ask? I think you're afraid of your own sexuality...and quite possibly could have deep seated latent homosexual desires yourself that your supressing - ever hear 'Thou does protest too much' You are fixated on the subject for some reason and what I've seen over the years is people that are that against it are usually really attracted to it so they outwardly deny it to prove to themselves and others that they aren't......give that some thought Mike>

    Who here thinks Mike is Gay? show of hands please!

    Also, as for the Bible etc etc etc.....has anyone watched Religulous with Bill Maher....excellent film, check it out.
  77. Doug Dewan from Canada writes: J. Michael : By the overwhelming responses to your comments, I would say it is you that is ridiculous.

    Again, will you please come out and accept you're gay.
  78. J. Michael from Canada writes: Scott Gordon from BC, Canada writes: 'You are a dinosaur J. michael....get out of the 70's. '

    Funny comment – LOL!
  79. Helen J from Australia writes: J. Michael says:' If in your heart you feel what you are doing is right, then why care what others think? On the other hand, if you know what you are doing is wrong, but instead are aiming to get support, that is another issue. '

    Excellent response!
  80. Rick Law from Canada writes: Hmmm.. from the article of an academy award for an actor who played a stellar role in a controversial film surrounding a number of controversial issues, we have it play out into biblical readings and some particularly nasty words for those who advocate one style of lifestyle vs another.

    Well, his performance was great and believable. The film about a man who tried and succeeded in making a difference in his community was great. You may not like the topic, but you cant fault an individual for trying to make a positive peaceful change in a community that was being discriminated against.

    Then to throw in issues like gay marriage as being inappropriate seems a bit of a stretch from the movie. But while we are on the topic:
    Heterosexual marriage or gay marriage... does it really matter if two people care to make a visible statement that they wish to spend a lifetime with one another? My thinking would be that if more people did that and actually stayed committed to one another it would be a marvelous thing. And if the community around them continued to support them in maintaining the union... perfect.

    But then that would mean we would have to be nicer and more supportive of one another, and maybe more tolerant.
  81. Helen J from Australia writes: J. Michael says: 'If in your heart you feel what you are doing is right, then why care what others think? On the other hand, if you know what you are doing is wrong, but instead are aiming to get support, that is another issue.'

    Excellent response!
  82. Luke Powell from Vancouver, Canada writes: Private Person from Toronto, Canada writes: Luke Powell says 'the issue' between homophobes and others hinges on whether it's a choice. I suggest he maybe wrong. There is another possiblity. What if it IS a choice and there's no moral reason to choose one way or another?

    ---------

    I was hoping someone would see exactly what Private Person pointed out - the debate we SHOULD be having, openly, is exactly his/her first paragraph: are there any truly moral or ethical implications of being gay?

    Personally, I can't think of any.

    Incidentally, the whole hormone imbalance issue could open up another sub-debate: is it ethical to alter the hormone balance in the womb if that balance may lead to an individual being gay? What if there is a chance the baby would be harmed in some way?
  83. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Helen J, et al., I long for the day that we can get 'God' out of our government and out of the lives of all those of us who do not believe in such fairy tales. If you and others wish to believe in god and religion, that's fine with me. However, please don't impose your religion on the rest of us.
  84. Doug Dewan from Canada writes: It's people like J. Michael that contributed to the death of Harvey Milk....J. Michael is todays Dan White. It's people like J. Michael who contribute to the suicide of young men and women every year that think that they can not be accepted in their society and are better off dead.

    J. Michael : quit being afraid and come out already!
  85. true conservative from Canada writes: Helen J - yes, the supremacy of my god. Your god is my god's gardener.
  86. J. Michael from Canada writes: Doug Dewan - You my friend are ridiculous.

    Surly if one feels right about what they are doing, they do not need my support.

    You give me way too much credit.

    Tell me – how am I supposed to feel about myself the way I have been treated on this column &8211; go off and jump off a bridge?

    If in your heart you feel what you are doing is right, then why care what others think? On the other hand, if you know what you are doing is wrong, but instead are aiming to get support, that is another issue.
  87. M. Mark from Victoria, Canada writes: Hopefully the California law will stand. My pastor said that gay marriages will ruin society. Shortly after Canada allowed gay marriage, my wife left me so clearly my pastor was correct. Normal marriages in Canada are all doomed to destruction because of the gays. Don't let it happen in California.

    :-)
  88. A K from Canada writes: Robert Waddell from Toronto, Canada writes: Is it wrong that I prefer that the traditional definition of marriage be maintained?

    ...

    Not necessarily - it's just an opinion.

    In Canada, however, I believe one would need to show how his/her rights were compromised. In other words, the traditional definition wouldn't survive a Charter-challenge.
    .
  89. Mike G from Canada writes: Helen J from Australia writes: AK: Even though the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms begins: 'Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:'

    --------------

    Notice it doesn't say which God. And regardless, this doesn't mean that just because your interpretation of God thinks gay people are bad, you should be able to discriminate against them.
  90. Cliff Pallette from Canada writes: Typo Helen. It was meant to be the supremacy Gord. At least Gord is someone real we can all believe in.

    And the Gord that I know likes everyone too. Gord doesn't kill people with floods. He doesn't inflict the plague upon millions. Gord is 100 per cent love and 0 per cent hate and condemnation. Gord even allows dancing and doesn't find the human body dirty and sinful. Gord doesn't require adoration, as he knows that only an imperfect being would have that character flaw. Gord is not a story. Gord is real!

    Gord is Great! In Gord We Trust. Gord Almighty!

    Amen.
  91. Helen J from Australia writes: AK: Even though the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms begins: 'Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:'
  92. Helen J from Australia writes: Mike G: My response was to AK who said: In other words, the traditional definition (of marriage) wouldn't survive a Charter-challenge.
    I said: Even though the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms begins: 'Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:?

    This was written in a day when people did not feel it necessary to define the one true and living God.
  93. Mike G from Canada writes: Helen J from Australia writes: This was written in a day when people did not feel it necessary to define the one true and living God.

    ------------

    Then you should have no problem bringing God down to this dimension, so he can clarify what his stance is. Oh, and presumably prove that he is, in fact, the one true and living God.

    See, phrases like 'the one true and living God' are essentially meaningless. You ask 1,000 people what that means, and you'll get 1,005 responses.

    And that is why it's not a good idea to base your laws on God's law. Because they are invariably not God's law, but someone's interpretation of it.
  94. Mike G from Canada writes: And further, Helen, this is all a fascinating side show. Even if we were to accept that by 'supremacy of God' we mean the modern day fundamentalist version, this changes nothing. Because nowhere in the Charter is the supremacy of the Bible mentioned. Therefore, using the Bible as some sort of legal precedent just wouldn't fly.
  95. true conservative from Canada writes: Mike G - it's simple. God is Jesus. And Jesus doesn't believe in the sanctity of marriage. First of all, there's not one quote that says so. Second, if he believed in marriage - he would have got married. Everyone else at the time were popping out kids. Instead he went camping with twelve guys.

    Sanctity of marriage? HA!
  96. Mike G from Canada writes: true conservative: Didn't Jesus specifically say to leave your family if you wanted to follow him?

    Sanctity of marriage indeed! ;)
  97. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Helen J from Australia writes: BJ: 'Where did you read that I had a prejudice against homosexuals? I am merely quoting the Word of God. ...'

    Helen, I really do not care who your imaginary friends are. But please leave your conversations with them out of the discussion.

    Oh, and to quote passages from the Bible, which has been written by men over several hundred years, is not convincing as the word of 'God'.

    DISCLAIMER: I do not begrudge anyone their belief system. What I do begrudge is these people imposing their beliefs on me (and, by extension, society).
  98. Double Speak from Canada writes: Its funny when Sean Penn supports Gay rights & same sex marriages but then travels to Iran and meets the Iranian President who kills gays on a regular basis. Double standard perhaps?

    Is there something kinda weird about Sean Penn Logic and his mental state of mind on this trip to Iran ???
  99. true conservative from Canada writes: Double Speak - Khatami killed gay people? Sucks that this is the guy that the Bush Administration backed in the future election.
  100. J. Michael from Canada writes: Thanks to Helen J for trying to share some truth in the debate.

    'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it!'
  101. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: Double Speak from Canada writes: 'Its funny when Sean Penn supports Gay rights & same sex marriages but then travels to Iran and meets the Iranian President who kills gays on a regular basis. Double standard perhaps?

    Is there something kinda weird about Sean Penn Logic and his mental state of mind on this trip to Iran ??? '

    Not at all. Why should Sean Penn be personally responsible for all the injustices in the world simply because he acted in a movie?

    Weird logic that.
  102. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: 'Thanks to Helen J for trying to share some truth in the debate.'

    Truth?

    You two can't handle the truth!
    (apologies to Jack Nicholson)
  103. Double Speak from Canada writes: true conservative from Canada writes: Double Speak - Khatami killed gay people? Sucks that this is the guy that the Bush Administration backed in the future

    True conservative the Iranian President since 2005 is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad not Khatami ... I guess it shows how much you know about Iran .
  104. Clear Thinker from Canada writes: Penn imitated, Rourke acted. I hoped the 'academy' knew the difference but apparently not. Impersonating an actual person and acting out a character are different things.
  105. sergio esp from welland, Canada writes: What ever happened to good acting movies, it use to be good seen an Oscar winner movie, now some times those are the worse. Who change the criteria?
  106. Mike G from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: Thanks to Helen J for trying to share some truth in the debate.

    ----------------

    What truth?!?

    And are you intentionally avoiding my questions because they're too hard to answer?
  107. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: Clear Thinker from Canada writes: 'Penn imitated, Rourke acted. I hoped the 'academy' knew the difference but apparently not....'

    Clear, FYI the 'academy' is composed of directors, actors and other professionals within the industry.
  108. sergio esp from welland, Canada writes: What is very interesting to me, is that people with gay agenda are very fast to criticize the conservative line, and they demand the freedom of expression, but when someone that disagrees with their opinion tries to say something in that regard it becomes not acceptable….so do we have freedom to express or points of views or not?
  109. Helen J from Australia writes: Hello Mike G: You say,'... are you intentionally avoiding my questions because they're too hard to answer?'

    Sorry Mike, I do not have the time to debate you. You know my views and where I would find my answers. Let's just agree to differ.

    Have a good day!
  110. K Ordos from Canada writes: I support Same Sex Marriage simply because it puts a burr up the Christians' tailpipes.
  111. sergio esp from welland, Canada writes: 'Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Helen J, et al., I long for the day that we can get 'God' out of our government and out of the lives of all those of us who do not believe in such fairy tales.'
    Señora que pena me da leer sus palabras, puedo ver en ellas un odio muy grande para con Dios, seguramente alguien la hirio mucho en el pasado o la descepsionaron (tengo duda con esta palabra) La invito a que medite mucho en su condicion, no culpe a Dios por lo que los hombres le hicieron, Dios la ama, y El sigue a su lado, se lo puedo asegurar, estoy a sus ordenes si le gustaria hablar del tema, Que Dios la bendiga.
  112. J. Michael from Canada writes: K Ordos from Canada writes: 'I support Same Sex Marriage simply because it puts a burr up the Christians' tailpipes. '

    Wow, such deep rooted values!
  113. anonymouse Z from Canada writes: sergio esp from welland, Canada writes: What is very interesting to me, is that people with gay agenda are very fast to criticize the conservative line, and they demand the freedom of expression, but when someone that disagrees with their opinion tries to say something in that regard it becomes not acceptable….so do we have freedom to express or points of views or not?
    ___________________
    First, what is 'gay agenda'? To get equal rights? By that alone, you must agree that they are being discriminated against. No, they don't want to turn you and the world into gays.

    Second, what is the disagreement that is unaccepatable to them (and people like me who support full rights for them)? What you mildly put as 'disagreement' is nothing less than pure hate and discrimination that is legislated. People want them to vanish. They exist. People want them to stay quiet. People don't. Churches don't. Why should they? People want them to be alone. People don't. Why should they? People don't want them to raise kids if they love kids. They have gone through this for ages.

    Besides, since when are discriminatory ideas valid opinions that deserve freedom of expression? The right of freedom comes with responsibility of consideration for others.

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