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Officially a 'have-not,' Ontario receives funding boost

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Province will get $347-million in equalization funding, see higher health transfers ...Read the full article

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  1. Dave Jansen - The Progressive Centrist from Canada writes: .

    Only in Canada can a jurisdiction that ships out $20 Billion more in tax revenue to the rest of country than it gets, can be considered a "have-not" province.

    Time for Ontario to go on it's own - Ontario as it's own country would currently have a $20 billion surplus.
  2. FortMac Worker from Canada writes: Dave, you a transplanted Albertan???
  3. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Goodbye Dave. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  4. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Payback time?
  5. Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: This is payback time for other provinces who take for granted on money from Ontario for their equalization payments.

    Ontario needs extra funds from education, health, infrastructure, child care etc... regardless of whether its have or have-not.

    Quebec take note of this!
  6. aviator5 s from Nanaimo, Canada writes: BC went into have not status under the ndp government in the 90's.
    The liberals are similar to the ndp in many ways and since Ontario
    insists on a liberal government it is only fitting they wear the hat.
  7. Joe V from Canada writes: Dave: I've got a better idea. How about we just throw out Quebec? They take from all the other provinces. It's time to properly thank them.
  8. Skeptical Cynic from Bunghole Tickle, Canada writes: Considering that the G&M can barely abide reporting on good news stories from a province they have continually condescended to... it must really irk the G&M to now have to refer to NF LD as a "have" province.

    Conspicuous in absence in the G&M is mention of the recent press release from the Nfld government stating how the Nfld offshore petroleum industry has reached the milestone of pumping its one billionth barrel of crude, or mention of the last provicial budget brought in by the Nfld government which introduced a taxation rate that is now the lowest of all four Atlantic provinces.

    How small of them. Well, suck it up G&M.

    Suck it ALL up.
  9. Fake Name from Canada writes: I still say dalton should have turned down that check. There's such a thing as pride...
  10. garlick toast from Canada writes: Ontario has the biggest make-work project ever, the Federal Civil Service. They should be decentralized.
  11. Ned Chiwalski from Oilberta, Canada writes: Joe V, You have a good point there. If we eliminated the Quebec deadwood, the ROC would be much better off! And Dave are you sure your not a trasplanted Albertan??
  12. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Welcome to Dalton's world
  13. Roln Thunder from A little NW of Dogriver, Canada writes: Dearest Dave and Vote NDP; Before you start saying how badly Ontario has been screwed over by equilization, keep in mind where the vast majority of the federal civil service is located. Over 1/3 of our military, the vast majority ot the senior departments... infact I bet well over 1/2 of all federal civil servants live in Ontario....so you receive the taxes of 100,000 well paid salaries that the all Canadians pay. Thats about 5-10 Billion/yr in provicial taxes and probably 10x what is collected in Saskatchewan. One of the ironic things about the majority of "Farm Bailout programs" in the 90s was the huge % of the programs were eaten up by administration that wasn't located in the West. So 20-30% of farm programs never left Ontario. Did Ontario pay more into the program than anyone- absolutely...but the entire economic focus has been on Ontario since confederation. The rest of Canada has been an after thought, or more precisely, considered the "protected or sole market" for Ontario manufactured good. Canada runs like a company town and Ontario and Quebec are the Company Store. Its only because Alberta and Saskatchewan are floating on an ocean of oil, has any real manufacturing or other heavy industry developed here, inspite of debilitating government policy. So forgive me if I don't shed any tears for how you are now being "screwed" over, I cried myself dry decades ago when I realized this was the reality of the country in which I live, and I'll probably never see any real change in my life time. Your faithful Serf. Roln
  14. Dave Jansen - The Progressive Centrist from Canada writes: Roln Thunder from A little NW of Dogriver, Canada writes: Dearest Dave and Vote NDP; Before you start saying how badly Ontario has been screwed over by equilization, keep in mind where the vast majority of the federal civil service is located. Over 1/3 of our military, the vast majority ot the senior departments... infact I bet well over 1/2 of all federal civil servants live in Ontario....

    --------------------

    Actually the percentage of federal employees in Ontario is more like 45%. The population of Ontario is 40% of the total - so we get 33% of military, and 45% of federal jobs. The total federal employees is approx. 380,000 - So Ontario gets 19,000 more federal employees relative to their population (not bad considering the capital is in Ontario) - the total salary of these 19,000 employees is approx. 120,000,000. Now, Ontario gets 4,200 less military compared to it's size - approx 17,000,000 in salary. This translates to Ontario getting $103,000,000 more in salary than it's population should get.

    Great, now what about the remaining $19,897,000,000? Not so smart now eh Roln?
  15. Dave Jansen - The Progressive Centrist from Canada writes: .

    BTW - To Roln and all those really, really, really smart people. The $20 Billion number that is often thrown around includes every type of money transfer there is. So you can complain all you want about Ontario getting an extra office or so - but that whining has already been calculated for.

    Again, Ontario ships off $20 Billion more to the ROC than it gets back. Without Ontario, Canada would be nothing but a sad collection of whinny-little b!tch provinces who would actually have to work for a living.
  16. G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Saskatchewan and Newfoundland/Labrador are only to happy to give support to the have nots Including Ontario. Oh have times changed? Glory to be, Ontario on welfare assistance. As a Northwestern Ontario resident I say thank you to the generous people of Saskatchewan and Newfoundland/Labrador.and those other have provinces. Ontarians at least those of us in the NW part of the province promise not to check the expiry dates on the canned food you may wish to send our way.
  17. No Worries from Canada writes:
    Only Quebec and the BLOC could complain about receiving $8.3 BILLION dollars - while much larger Ontario gets a whopping $347m.

    Just scrap the entire equilization program entirely. Its basically just an appeasment fund for Quebec anyway.

    Just imagine how egregious these transfers would get if a BLOC sponsored coalition ever managed to take power......
  18. Dave Jansen - The Progressive Centrist from Canada writes: No Worries from Canada writes:
    Just imagine how egregious these transfers would get if a BLOC sponsored coalition ever managed to take power......

    --------------------

    Well, we could waste our energy worrying about 'what ifs' - or we could actually discuss reality and how Harper has nearly doubled the program.
  19. Dave Jansen - The Progressive Centrist from Canada writes: G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Saskatchewan and Newfoundland/Labrador are only to happy to give support to the have nots Including Ontario. Oh have times changed? Glory to be, Ontario on welfare assistance. As a Northwestern Ontario resident I say thank you to the generous people of Saskatchewan and Newfoundland/Labrador.and those other have provinces. Ontarians at least those of us in the NW part of the province promise not to check the expiry dates on the canned food you may wish to send our way.
    -----------------------------------

    G L - Do you even have a basic understanding of how this whole thing works? We're not getting 357 Million back, we're just LOSING 357 million less.

    Don't forget about the $20 Billion remaining that Ontario (99% of which is actually from southern Ontario) spends more than it gets back.

    Oh, and you should be thanking Southern Ontario for subsidizing everything up North.
  20. YRIS SAUNDERS from Canada writes: No Worries from Canada writes:
    Only Quebec and the BLOC could complain about receiving $8.3 BILLION dollars - while much larger Ontario gets a whopping $347m.

    Just scrap the entire equilization program entirely. Its basically just an appeasment fund for Quebec anyway.
    --------------------------- I believe we all ready heard whining from both the Bloc and the premier of Quebec that they were short changed by the budget.
  21. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Dave, how can you support wealth redistribution within our cities, or within our province of Ontario, but not within our country?

    How is it okay for one Ontario region to subsidize another poorer region, but not okay for one Canadian province, to subsidize another poorer Canadian province? How is it okay for Toronto to subsidize Windsor through paying x more in taxes than they get back, but not okay for Ontario to subsidize Quebec by paying x more dollars than it gets back?

    You are inconsistent. You don't know what you are saying. Either you are in support of redistribution of wealth or you are not. Stop confusing the issue with this Ontario vs Canada nonsense.
  22. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Dave Jansen...

    If Ontario left would you take Toronto with you?
    That would be great.

    Ontario, it's own country.
    That would put quite a buffer between the Republic of the West and Quebec.

    I like the way you think, Dave.
    Toronto and Quebec, out of the picture, in one fell swoop.

    Sweet.
  23. Tyler Phillips from Seattle, writes: What a ridiculous system - Ontario taxpayers all pay into this equalization scheme but only get back a small portion of their contributions. The system needs to be eliminated, and I believe that's what McGuinty originally called for.

    To the posters who insist on complaining about Ottawa being in Ontario - what would you propose instead? Making Ottawa its own province? Then the problem of federal jobs per capita would be even more ridiculous. It's interesting to note that most other provinces, including PEI and Quebec have much more federal civil servants than Ontario.
  24. Tyler Phillips from Seattle, writes: "Dearest Dave and Vote NDP; Before you start saying how badly Ontario has been screwed over by equilization, keep in mind where the vast majority of the federal civil service is located. Over 1/3 of our military, the vast majority ot the senior departments... infact I bet well over 1/2 of all federal civil servants live in Ontario.."

    More than 1/3 of Canadians live in Ontario, so what's the problem with having 1/3 of the military there?

    As far as your "bet" about civil servants, why not try doing some research first. Most other provinces have more federal civil servants per capita than Ontario.
  25. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: >> But Ottawa is forging ahead in the new budget, providing the Quebec government with $8.4-billion in equalization payments. The money is a $300-million increase over last year, but the Quebec government is arguing that over coming years, the province will lose $1-billion in equalization payments.

    It's shameful that a province the size of Quebec, with its resources, and its bright and dynamic people (and I speak honestly) should after all these years still be cap in hand in the welfare line-up.
  26. Tyler Phillips from Seattle, writes: G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Saskatchewan and Newfoundland/Labrador are only to happy to give support to the have nots Including Ontario.

    If you honestly believe 2 provinces with populations totalling about 1.5 million are "supporting" a province of 13 million, you're delusional.

    Ontario taxpayers all pay into equalization just like every other Canadian.

    $14.2 billion is being distributed in equalization payments. Ontario (with 40% of the country's population and taxpayers) is getting about 2.5% of that amount. Its obviously paying more into the system than it's getting back.
  27. Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: "Ontario officially moves to ‘have not' status"

    And with Alberta's oil-driven economy tanking, will there be any "have" provinces left?

    The only thing I know for sure is if Ottawa stopped taking so damned much tax from me, I'd be a "have" person.
  28. G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Tyler Phillips from Where? It's Toronto folks, Seattle? My goodness sakes are the Torontonians that embarrassed to say where there from. WAAAAAA Give the baby it's bottle We give 20 BILLION Dollars more than we received. So? The fact is Ontario is a have not province. The Taxpayers of Saskatchewan Alberta NFL/Labrador are HAVE PROVINCES and I believe BC is a well.
    This government has funded your transit system in Hog Town in the BILLIONS and that's just one sector, Your province. ok our province has received some 8 Billion Dollars in ADDITIONAL equalization payments 2005-2008. Note the term I used to describe The City of Darkness HOG TOWN, as in oink oink going to the trough.The public trough. Must we remind our friends in Southern Ontario that they are not the centre of the earth. There is life north and east and west of Barrie. You get your share of Federal money and if want to drive up to NW Ontario on, for the most part, a two lane gravelled shoulder Trans-Canada Hwy,. and no passenger Train Service within 300 Miles of a city of over 100 Thousand people be my guest. Perhaps you'll have a greater appreciation of what you do have down there in the Sunny south. Please do not throw that we've got 12 Million people down here routine at us We've heard it all before. many many many times before.
  29. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: Skeptical Cynic from Bunghole Tickle, Canada writes:

    Considering that the G&M can barely abide reporting on good news stories from a province they have continually condescended to... it must really irk the G&M to now have to refer to NF LD as a "have" province.

    How small of them. Well, suck it up G&M. Suck it ALL up.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Revenge is sweet, eh Tickle?

    So...where is NFLD again?
    .
  30. Tyler Phillips from Seattle, writes: G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Your province. ok our province has received some 8 Billion Dollars in ADDITIONAL equalization payments 2005-2008.

    What exactly are you ranting on about? Ontario just became eligible to receive equalization and it's $347 million, not $8 billion.

    This government has funded your transit system in Hog Town in the BILLIONS and that's just one sector

    I know this might be a bit complicated for you, but believe it or not, people living in Toronto pay tax too. It's much cheaper to provide most government services in a city like Toronto. People living tightly packed makes for efficient hospitals, schools, roads and infrastructure.

    You should be thankful so many people are crammed into one city. It frees up space everywhere else.
  31. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Dave Jansen...

    If Ontario left would you take Toronto with you?
    That would be great.

    Ontario, it's own country.
    That would put quite a buffer between the Republic of the West and Quebec.

    I like the way you think, Dave.
    Toronto and Quebec, out of the picture, in one fell swoop.

    Sweet.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Republic Of The West?

    What makes you think Alberta will want to support you and the Sasks and 'Peggers Mike?

    They might expect BC to pay its own way, something you've traditionally had a problem doing in the past.

    Geez, you can't even afford sewage reatment in your capitol city.
    Just flush 'er raw straight into the Strait.
    Tell me Mike, do you eat fish caught in the Strait?
    .
    .
  32. Nia Pia from Morontario, Canada writes: .
    .
    .
    Ontario a have not province? They're not talking about money.
    .
    They're talking about brains and innovation.
    .
    Now all we have is massive debt and a lazy CUPE entitlement attitude.
    .
    Someone gimme a cheque, now!
    .
  33. Hee Hoo Sai from Canada writes: The only thing missing is the "will not work for bail out cash" sign. On the plus side, as soon as there are no "have" provinces, there will be no money for equalization either.
  34. The Great Gazoo from Zatox, Canada writes: Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: "Payback time?"

    Yeah, that's pretty much my opinion on this story. It's kind of like the EI system: People like me have been paying into the fund for 35yrs without ever having made a claim; perhaps it is time that I get some time off to drink beer and watch TV while others support me :-)
  35. little bowpeep from Brains make you smart not money, Canada writes: Only in Alberta do people think they are smart because they have money, when in fact the dinosaurs made the money and its actually intellectual property desert.
  36. Alec Robertson from Canada writes: Wow...45.00 per person in the province. What largess.
  37. Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: Innocent Ghost from canada in case you are wondering NFLD is Canada's Most easterly province Just past Nova Scotia.If you look at the map of canada you can't miss it .it has have province written right across it
  38. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan asks, "Tell me Mike, do you eat fish caught in the Strait?"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Absolutely.
    Nothing like a salmon on the BBQ.
  39. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: With the Internet enabling/facilitating 'telecommuting', perhaps BIG CITY (big province) 'agglomeration economies' aren't so attractive.
    Distance for information and many service jobs becomes moot.

    For those already in isolated regions, taking on cerebral isolated region pursuits might lend strange expertise more.

    Maybe 'regional disparity' is gonna flip towards Downtown Cores taking over funding AND the rationale might be done from sub -30 pre-wind chill 'hick town of hick town' now Google famous fashion.
  40. D Le5 from Canada writes: I have no problems being called a 'have not' province if it means that I have back my money. The program should have been tweaked a while back to ensure those mainstays of the program not fall into the hole as well but too late.
    So toss some of our money back to us and call us have nots - won't hurt me one bit.
    Lets just hope those that receeved in the past remember that they received in the past (how quickly those flush with cash forget they ever needed assitance and so feel no one should get any).

    BC is slowly sinking back so maybe it will sink low enough to let dull Mike Sharp slip into the Ocean (crying 'free the West').
  41. Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: D LE5 from Canada the province of N.L.does not forget wher it got its money from.However when cahnges are made to the 1985 Atlantic Accord without any consultation what so ever,that will cost N.L.1.5 billion over the next 2 years then we have a serious problem in Ottawa.This province has been doing very well the last several years and we were happy to be os the perceived ottawa welfare roll.However Father Steve and his cronies feel that we are better served bending over they tell us to do so.Unfortunately we are not allowed to become a have province and stay there. Sad day when Ottawa screws people without as much as a thank you.
  42. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: Its time to end equalization...it is not equal.
    Ontario should be getting 12 billion this year...not 300 million!

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