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Ignatieff to call for changes to budget

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Liberals unlikely to vote for current plan; unclear whether they'll demand substantive changes or more minor concessions ...Read the full article

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  1. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    It is amazing how our politicians will sell themselves and Canadians down the river for power, position and prestige.
  2. Mark G from Toronto, Canada writes: As a result of pressure from the opposition and left, no? Can't you folks ever write an unbiased tagline?
  3. Sober Second Thought from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey, where is Harper's sweater?

    I like all the staged photos the Globe got of them all taking their coats off. That must really mean they are serious about sending us deep into debt.
  4. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    I said this yesterday, and post this as a reminder. What we have here is the 'seen vs. unseen' fallacy at work.

    Government produces no wealth. They take wealth from others and redistribute it to others under their monopoly of the monetary system and violence. Let me illustrate with an example:

    A and B put their heads together and decide what C shall be made to do for D. All eyes are on how D benefits. Endless political commentary and punditry abound around D. A and B is the State. C is the person who does productive economic work and pays taxes extorted via A and B and D is the recipient of the swindled money from C, less the cut that A and B squander on themselves or their favoured insiders.

    What is not seen is the economic benefits of what C might have done if C was allowed to retain his money and spend it as they saw fit. Existing businesses would not receive C's money anymore or future businesses may not come into existence. In otherwords, current and future businesses effectively subsidize D, favoured by A and B.

    A and B have another mechanism to swindle C; devalue the money s/he has in their pockets by printing new currency into existence to finance D. This new currency has an inflationary effect on C's savings for today, tomorrow, or passed onto C's children. Government sponsored inflationary attacks on C by the State/Banking cartel rob C in such a manner that not one in a million C's can diagnose. C pays for D via inflation, not taxation.

    The most skilled statistician cannot tell you what millions of C's would have done, today or tomorrow, had they been allowed to retain their money (or the value of it) to spend into the economy.

    C is the forgotten man.
  5. Uncle Fester from Canada writes: 'The package will push Ottawa into the red even sooner than expected and rack up the first annual deficit in 12 years – a hole the Tories don't expect to emerge from for half a decade.'

    ...............I would have expected that we would be out of the hole within 5 years.
  6. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: Another bet that may cost at the least 85 million, can we afford a chance like this with this government? 5 more weeks of unemployment, helps a bit.
  7. The Remnant from Canada writes: :
    Partisan politics are a ruse. There is no left/right in a feudal system, only top and bottom. Lords and Serfs. It keeps the masses divided through unimportant arguments via the political system, while the government/banking monetary system preys on us, our children, and future unborn uninterrupted.

    If you have a monopoly on violence (the State) you need not be logically consistent; you can change the rules at any time. The process of voting will not buy you freedom.

    As long as we continue to subjugate/prostrate ourselves to an organization that stole our freedoms by claiming a monopoly on violence, usurped our money and leaving us with a pile of counterfeit paper whose supply and value is arbitrarily regulated, not by market forces, but political ones, we will continue to be plundered.

    From the cradle to the grave, Statist brainwashing (via government indoctrination camps euphemistically called 'public education') and a subverted media (if newspapers needed a bailout, this would absolutely happen - who would be the State propaganda agents?) has utterly, hopelessly convinced the public that the solution to all their woes is through a group of people that have a gun. Anybody who has a monopoly on violence is subject to bribery and corruption.

    We don't vote out of sake of preference, although many of us think so, we vote to coerce each other into accepting the shade of lipstick applied to the pig of the State to violently fleece our fellow citizen. We vote to change the direction where the gun is pointed. Voting is political 'might makes right'. A majority knows - given their vast extensive philosophical and economic knowledge, right? - what to foist on the minority.

    'Reform cannot be achieved by a well-intentioned leader who recruits his followers from the very people whose moral confusion is the cause of the disorder.' - Socrates
  8. Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: What a surprise. Flaherty left Ontario with a $6.2 BILLION deficit when he was kicked out of power.

    Conservatives are NOT good economic managers. Tory times are tough times.
  9. dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: Road and bridges .............borrrring. By the time these projects get going we won't need them because eneough time will have passed that we will be over this slowdown in the economy. And then we'll have a massive debt load with loads of overspending.
  10. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: Harper and the Conservatives deliver a Big Fat Liberal-NDP budget.

    Will the NDP really vote against tax cuts for middle and low-income Canadians?
  11. George Nason from Canada writes: Well, I guess the libs got what they wanted
  12. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: 85 Billion I meant.
  13. mike h from Canada writes: Looks like the Liberal party wrote it. Actually - I think they did, I am sure they will vote for it.
  14. J J from Canada writes: What is the deal with this $80K figure for tax cuts? If they reduce a percentage in a certain tax bracket wouldn't anyone who earns money at or above the tax bracket get the same reduction?

    If the tax at the lower level is reduced to 10%, for example, wouldn't all tax paying Canadians get the same relief from that bracket? How does the tax cut give $199 to the $80K family and $539 to the $20K family? What about the $100K family? They would also get the break on the lower brackets, right?
  15. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks for nothing, Taliban Harper. This budget is Jack Layton's dream. Therefore, it is terrible for Canada. To those of you with children (who will pay for this), appologize to them for me. Sorry, we tried our best. I guess when a government decides to go on a deficit spending rampage 'stimulus', nothing can stop them.
  16. Greg Out West from Canada writes: We were going to spend lots of money regardless of who was in power. I just hope it works by reducing how long the recession lasts.
  17. The Susus from Canada writes: Wow, i just did the math....that tax cut should net me...a middle class earner.

    $4.80 a week...

    Yeah that'll really provide so much for me!
  18. Sober Second Thought from Toronto, Canada writes: All of this overspending would have been avoided if Harper had just took his job seriously last December and made some rational moves. Instead, we have chicken little spending money like there is no tomorrow.
  19. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    'Under the budget, a two-parent family with two kids earning $80,000 would get $199 relief while the same family, if it earned only $20,000, would get $539.'

    How many 4 person families make 20 grand a year ?? LOL !!

    Fact is their gross income is far more than 20 grand.
    4 people making 20 grand gross should not be paying ANY taxes.

    This will take some time to digest.
  20. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!
  21. Tristram Shandy from strathroy ontario, Canada writes: Regarding EI, either the reporting is incomplete or the decision is wrong-headed.

    It may be fine to increase benefits by 5 weeks, but some areas of the country receive far less in the number of weeks than others. I am not positive of the figures but if Nova Scotia gets the maximum of 45 weeks, and Ontario gets 35 weeks, what has happened with that inequity, given the abysmal state of affairs in the manufacturing industry in Ontario.

    Is everyone now eligible (at least temporarily) for 50 weeks, or has the inequity been maintained?

    I read the Globe for accuracy and comprehensiveness, not for incomplete headlines.
  22. F B from Montréal, Canada writes: Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: What a surprise. Flaherty left Ontario with a $6.2 BILLION deficit when he was kicked out of power.

    Conservatives are NOT good economic managers. Tory times are tough times.
    **
    Bush, the Nero of the American economy gone, who's next? Our deficit Caesar?
  23. D G from Canada writes: For the first time in ages Harper has a reflection. And I bet he barely recognizes himself.
  24. Fran Hoffer from Toronto, Canada writes: Looks like Flaherty is back where he thrives, like a pig in mud, spending to the tune of massive deficits. This was inevitable with Conservatives in power, regardless of any recession.
  25. Dave C from Canada writes: Face the facts, we are taking on this whopping deficit because if Harper doesn't, the 'Coalition' will take down the government. If you have anyone to complain about regarding this massive, disturbing deficit than blame the coalition. I'm sure Harper would have been more prudent if he wasn't forced into this hand.

    I shudder at the thought of Jack Layton and the NDP or the BLOC ever getting into power based on the coalition. If have no doubt whatsoever that Jack Layton would drive this country into financial ruin. It's too bad that the Liberals, whom I once voted for, were so willing to go in collusion with the NDP and BLOC.
  26. The Susus from Canada writes: Vern McPherson

    I know that's the kicker....that they tax people earning 20k a year in the first place!
  27. Greg Out West from Canada writes: mike h from Canada writes: Looks like the Liberal party wrote it. Actually - I think they did, I am sure they will vote for it.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    I agree, there is no way the LPC will vote this budget down. Sorry jack you hav your 15 minutes.

    Would love to see money spent on projects that are green with a dollar return like transit, hydro power generation ect. You spend money on a road and once it's done it's done. Spend money on clean power or transit and when the job is done you still have employment as well as revenue.
  28. steve allan from Canada writes: The government will stand. The budget did what it had to do to prevent the government falling. The Liberals will support this budget.
  29. simon little from Vancouver, Canada writes: When the global economic crisis first appeared, at first I saw a silver lining - here we saw proof of the failure of the US style 'every man for himself' economic philosophy, coupled with the acknowledgment from all sides that significant government spending would be required. My hope was that for the first time in my lifetime there now existed sufficient leverage to apply much needed government money in a direction that would lead to good, pragmatic, progressive social policy. After seeing what the Conservative government has put forward in terms of budget priorities, I am rather disappointed. Here we have more of the same, albeit on a grander scale. Where is the environment in this budget?

    Perhaps it is Obama envy, but why is stimulus money not being directed towards creating jobs through clean energy initiatives? Why is money directed to industry and the auto sector not coming with stringent strings attached, demanding a move to more efficient cars and technology? Canada has lagged behind other countries for years in this, and now, when there is finally public support for government action, why do we again pass up the opportunity to become world leaders - this time while helping rebuild our economy?
  30. Bobby Burger from Canada writes: Hope this budget is defeated. Its bad enough that the federal government will be going into a deficit for who knows how many years, but also requiring that the provinces pony up 9 billion dollars in deficit spending for needed infastructure work in order for them to spend 12 billion. Harper and his stooges still don't get it.
  31. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: ' Sober Second Thought from Toronto, Canada writes: All of this overspending would have been avoided if Harper had just took his job seriously last December and made some rational moves. Instead, we have chicken little spending money like there is no tomorrow.'

    Actually the only crazy move in the first budget was cutting public funding to the opposition parties. The rest about no striking was very sound... look at the papers there are layoffs in the private sector all over the place EI claims are going through the roof and you think government workers deserve to go on strike and wage hikes ARE YOU NUTS????

    Look at the York University strike 10 weeks and they want wage increases and to go back to the bargaining table in 2010 so everyone at every university has striking power. The tax payers are being HELD HOSTAGE by the very people they pay.
  32. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    A 100 million November surplus morphs magically into a 2 billion deficit In January ???

    How can anyone buy into that ?

    Were the COns stupidly absurd in the update or what ??
  33. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Ok, so what now?
    1. Donation strike?
    2. Sit on hands during election?
    3. Relaunch Refoooooooorrrrrrrmmm?

    If the liberals delivered this pos budget, we'd be up in arms over it. Any 'C'onservative who actually likes this is just an overly partisan hack.
  34. J J from Canada writes: How can a $20K family get $539 in tax relief when an $80K family only gets $200? Don't they both get the same relief in the lower tax bracket?
  35. D G from Canada writes: Hey Dave C - if Harper had all those principles you obviously believe he does, he could have come out with a budget that stuck to them. Instead he is presenting a budget contrary to the very fiber of his being - all so he can remain in power (the alternative being that he actually believes in this huge deficit which means he has betrayed his base - you decide). And I am pretty sure that canadians will remember that this was Harper's doing, and nobody else's.
  36. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Al Bore from Canada writes:

    Even when not in power, the Liberals manage to rape the Canadian taxpayer.
    Posted 27/01/09 at 4:25 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ============================

    It's stevie's budget. Not the libs'.

    Blame your oracle boring .......
  37. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: .

    This isn't a budget. It's government cash-diarrhoea.

    It's like they're using the Air Farce Chicken Cannon to target spending.

    I guess all the calls for them to invest for stimulus were just too complicated for brilliant economists like Steve and his homonculus.

    PULL THE PLUG ON THESE BOZOS PLEASE.
  38. Dwight Winger from Winnipeg, Canada writes: I think Harper may have finally figured it out. If you act like a Liberal, you may actually get some votes. A shame he couldn't live up to his own forgotten principles. I would have a lot more respect for a guy who didn't cave because he was scared of the opposition.
  39. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: This is more of the same, 'I stevie harpo want to hang on to power as long as I can and hereby pledge to my bed-buddy IGGY to please him in ways and means I can not describe here. The lying little leprechaun Flaherty needs to be made even shorter than he is now. As for his boss, Harpo he needs to pack-up from 24 Sussex, and be 'shovel ready' to move into Stornoway by Wednesday afternoon.

    This budget does not go far enough in infrastructure spending, and still gives too much to the corporate sector which are looking for a ZERO tax on profits.

    Both Harpo and IGGY are pathetic individuals who are not serving this country properly, and have no idea of how to govern.

    Reminder: Harpo & Flaherty (Dumb & Dumber) wrote a so-called economic update on November 27, that we would have budget surpluses for this year and for the next five years. So when did they have their Epiphanies and finally entire the real world????????
  40. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes: A thoughtful, prioritized, targeted, bridge-building budget with clear objectives and accountabilities aimed at getting our economy back on track.

    Bill Clinton's legislation that everyone American must have a house and the Liberal / NDP driving the cost of union wages have driven the economy to the brink.

    But clearly thought out Conservative fiscal policy will bring it back.

    Bravo Mr PM.
  41. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Quite apart from the budget, here's what parliament needs to bear in mind:

    1. No-one who breaks the law should be allowed to lead the government.

    2. No-one who seeks to buy MP votes should be a minister of the crown.

    3. No-one undermines health and safety regulation can be relied on to protect us.

    4. No-one who circumvents election rules should hold public office.

    5. No-one who lies in your face can be trusted.

    .
  42. lady been from toronto, Canada writes:

    Helps the banks, leases, mortgages. doesn't do much for the common man, unfortunately, unless you are a big borrower.

    OK, everybody, start borrowing!!
  43. Al Bore from Canada writes:

    Those jobs that are being lost by the thousands, are never coming back to Canada.

    They'll go to places that have cheap labour.

    We will never be able to pay off this debt.

    Thanks Liberals, NDP and Bloc for blackmailing Canadians.
  44. Western Bear from Canada writes: 'Whack A Mole'?
  45. I Scottiemac from Canada writes: Harper was taking a prudent approach with the previous budget for the very reason that we weren't in as bad shape as the US. His one mistake was cutting off funding to the opposition. Then the coalition rose up with all the indignation they could muster and put an end to it. Now you have what is effectively the coalition's answer to the crisis. Don't blame the government for this - blame the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc.
  46. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    The COns pushed every button on the control panel.

    They tossed all the pasta at the curtins hoping some might stick so they can make it through this first week back form the forced shutdown of our Parliament ........

    Will it stick ?? Likely yes. With a few amendments and some shouting.

    stevie is a libbie now boys. Get used to it ........
  47. Ed Hyman from Orangeville, Canada writes: Fools - Tax and spend, tax and spend. This is why Canada is below average on every economic metric and misses every opportunity to diversify away from natural resources. Who would want to invest here? Politicians are yokels from the backwaters of the People's Republic of Canada.
  48. The Susus from Canada writes: Greg Out West,

    I think rape is a bit extreme, you like to drive your car don't you? I imagine when you get hurt you don't elect to pay for the service out of pocket?

    I find it laughable (and I apply this too all governments as liberals and conservatives do it). DON'T BOTHER GIVING US THESE STUPID ITTY BITTY TAX BREAKS FOR THE REGULAR GUY/GIRL!

    So we go billions in debt, to hand Canadians (AT MOST) 10.50 a week.....and that's if you make 20k?!

    Trust me, no Canadians life is going to change at 10 a week. This does nothing, zip, zero, bub kiss...
  49. s c from Canada writes: I was hoping for some real tax relief in the way of tempoary income splitting. Would have been able to do some repairs around the house. Instead, with the tiny tax cuts announced in this budget, there will be absolutely no increase in spending here.
  50. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Al Bore from Canada writes:

    Even when not in power, the Liberals manage to rape the Canadian taxpayer.

    ====================

    Cons are beyond pathetic. The CON finance minister stands up and reads a speach and you want to blame the opposition?

    What the hell? Is the CON finance minister an opposition puppet, or is he a man with a mind of his own?
  51. D T from Toronto, Canada writes: Al Bore from Canada writes:

    Even when not in power, the Liberals manage to rape the Canadian taxpayer.

    That is the best comment on this subject yet!
  52. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!

    ==============

    Oh really? Then why did they?

    .
  53. The Susus from Canada writes: Ed Hyman,

    But wasn't this whole downturn caused by the lenders and borrowers int he much more free market u.s.?
  54. Greg Out West from Canada writes: The Susus from Canada writes: Greg Out West,

    I think rape is a bit extreme, you like to drive your car don't you? I imagine when you get hurt you don't elect to pay for the service out of pocket?
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Susan, I was commenting on another's post who used the phrase raping the taxpayer and yes I thought it a bit extreme as well.
  55. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks for nothing, Taliban Harper. This budget is Jack Layton's dream. Therefore, it is terrible for Canada. To those of you with children (who will pay for this), appologize to them for me. Sorry, we tried our best. I guess when a government decides to go on a deficit spending rampage 'stimulus', nothing can stop them.

    The Harris flunkie Flaherty left Ontario with a $6.2 BILLION deficit which he CLAIMED was a balanced budget.

    CONservatives are NOT good economic managers. They are horrible stewards of fiscal management. That myth of a Tory being a wise fiscal manager has been put to rest once and for all.

    Jimmy K, you really need to take a basic economics course, probably something not to difficult for a CON or Alliance, say maybe grade 2 math using apples and oranges.
  56. Bobs Yer Uncle from Canada writes: NDP= bad faith bargaining from a non democratic party

    deciding on principle they will vote against the budget IN ADVANCE

    That is NOT democracy in action. Some of the budget will benefit NDP constituents and they might support it but Layton will simply ignore these voters and put his own needs above theirs...

    A vote for Layton is a vote for authoritarianism...
  57. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    I Scottiemac from Canada writes: Harper was taking a prudent approach with the previous budget for the very reason that we weren't in as bad shape as the US. His one mistake was cutting off funding to the opposition. Then the coalition rose up with all the indignation they could muster and put an end to it. Now you have what is effectively the coalition's answer to the crisis. Don't blame the government for this - blame the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc.
    Posted 27/01/09 at 4:37 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =============================

    WOW !!! How stupid is for you to set up the premise and then draw the absolutely incorrect conclusion ?????

    Do you realize all this - if you think this budget is wrong - is stevie's fault originally ?? That he brought it all on himself ??

    WOW but people are stupid ............. religiously stupid ........ as if it were a virtue. ............
  58. John Kanuck from Canada writes: The opposition parties will be very foolish to defeat the government on the basis of this budget.
  59. dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: None of this money should go to Alberta. They have plenty of money left over from 147 dollar oil days
  60. Aloha E from Toronto, Canada writes: Home renovations?! What a wonderful use of tax dollars.
  61. Kerri Waite from Ottawa, Canada writes: For a government who knows they`ll be pushing themselves into the red, I don`t know why they didn`t put more money into areas that need the money. Yay lets build bridges and roads.. that`s great for people who do that kind of work, what about the 50 year olds that just got laid off in Oshawa, oh right Flaherty told the world not to invest in Ontario... smart considering Oshawa somehow voted him in again after saying that... (sorry side rant, back to my point). Bridges aren`t going to do anything. How about investing in something that can generate jobs across all boards. GREEN TECHNOLOGY! INGENIOUS! Im telling you! Not only will it help create manufacturing jobs that are going down the tubes but its NEEDED! Obama is as eco-friendly as any Western leader is going to get and he wants to make America more energy sufficient. So what should Canada do? Start taking technology from Europe that fits into the infrastructure of Canada and the US and sell it to the US. Its up and coming technology thats not going away, its in high demand and you have a buyer thats guarenteed! You think the US is going to buy from Europe? No, they'll buy from their favourite trading partner, Canada! Its really not that hard of a concept. Creates jobs, helps the environment and may just help Ontario and other provinces in need. AND! The liberals and NDP surely would have agreed, so no need for an electon. Its win win for everyone. Too bad Harper thought about building roads and bridges instead and ofcourse more tax credits...
  62. mike shadoue from ottawa, Canada writes: for those of you blaming the libs and the others for this?
    NEWS FLASH!
    harper is in charge
  63. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    John Kanuck from Canada writes: The opposition parties will be very foolish to defeat the government on the basis of this budget.
    Posted 27/01/09 at 4:43 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =============================

    Your dear little leader little stevie the oracle used Canadians' money to keep his jobby............ tens of billions of it ...........
  64. Freedom Rider from Edmonton, Canada writes: 60% of Canadians want this budget passed and it will. The NDP are idiots and the BLOC are greedy brats. But Iggy will let her go and Canadians will be happy.
  65. John Kanuck from Canada writes: Aloha E from Toronto, Canada writes: Home renovations?! What a wonderful use of tax dollars.
    -----------------------------------------------
    I think so. I have been waiting 2 yrs for contractors who have been too busy building new homes in my area to do an interior reno on my house.

    Looks like this summer will be a good time to get it done.
  66. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    The Liberals get to keep their brand.

    Now back to the task of scraping off Dion's green veneer.
  67. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You are so right. The Harpo government has NOT wanted to do anything at all!!! Period!!! End of story! Harpo would sooner see the Canadian economy burn to the ground rather than do the right thing and put people to work in this dire economic time. b l, I feel sorry for the likes of you as you collectively do not get it.
  68. elizabeth vann from victoria, b.c., Canada writes: So the NDP & Bloc segment of the coalition is going to vote against the budget? Are Jack & Gilles now joined at the hip? With Michael standing on the sidelines?

    How many legs does this pony have? Two, four or six? So many questions. All for the sake of $1.95.
  69. Al Bore from Canada writes:

    We're in the red. (Liberal Red)

    We're doomed
  70. Molly Willsit from Canada writes: Iceland might be looking good in a few months. And to all those who voted Conservative in the last election, what fools you are!!!!
  71. Kan Tankerous from Tronna, Canada writes:

    Beer and popcorn writes:

    'the Liberal / NDP driving the cost of union wages have driven the economy to the brink.'

    That's a pretty neat trick considering they haven't been in power lately.

    Too high on the beer and too low on the popcorn is your problem.
  72. Craig W from Calgary, Canada writes: How badly we miss that 2% off the GST now. All you Connies going to blame the Liberals for that?

    You and I don't care about 5 or 7% tax on a pair of shoes. But the government is missing the sum of that 2% big time. Someone tell me what that adds up to over the next two years plus the last 3 years...

    I also think this spending is a big opportunity to focus on the environment that I fear our wonderful backwards-thinking government is going to miss. Think of the opportunities for sustainable infrastructure, corporate tax cuts for energy efficient or renewable industries, or new forward-thinking jobs and job training. Instead we build roads, and fund the auto sector that's had it's head up it's own a_ _ for decades.
  73. slapdash dapoint from harper is not a conservative, Canada writes: and there is the end of the canadian aliance / reform party pretending to be conservative!
  74. it's raining from vancouver, Canada writes: Really, the guys(neo cons) who got us into this mess and never saw this economic storm coming are the guys telling us they know what will work to get us out of what they've created?...
  75. Rick McNaulty from CalgaryOttawa, Canada writes: Vern Vern Vern all real Canadians know who is behind the size of the budget.

    I am Liberal hear me ROAR.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
  76. Al Bore from Canada writes:

    It will be fun watching IGGY trying to get out of the coalition.
  77. Life's Tough from Canada writes: Did not really see anything in there for the autoworkers. Or am I missing something here?
  78. John Kanuck from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Your dear little leader little stevie the oracle used Canadians' money to keep his jobby............ tens of billions of it ...........
    ------------------------------------------
    Yeah, so? Tax breaks, home reno tax credits, local infrastructure funding, increased EI benefits....

    Sounds exactly what the people asked for.

    Enjoy a couple more yrs in opposition Vern.
  79. Cameron Jantzen from Canada writes: .
    Al Bore, you do think the Conservatives are spineless, don't you.
    .
  80. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: 'The additional efforts, through the use of guarantees, lending and borrowing, includes a Canadian Secured Credit Facility, which will offer $12 billion to support financing of vehicles and equipment for consumers and businesses.'

    Apparently the government believes Canadians will gladly follow them into even greater debt, spending the bit they save on taxes for home renovations and new vehicles. One wonders if this will actually happen or if most Canadians won't decide to pay down all the debt they can. I know that if I had a spare $10,000 laying around, I would be more likely to pay off credit card or other loans before renovating my home.

    The one clear message from this budget is that things will only get better if we all spend, spend, spend. Whatever happened to never a borrower nor a lender be?
  81. Charles Brown from Vancouver, BC, Canada writes: It is easy for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation to criticize just about everything. Maybe they can start making some constructive suggestions.
  82. a l from Toronto, Canada writes: Harper and his team blew the surplus when times were better. Why should Canadians trust that they can manage the economy now?
  83. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Harper should have replaced Flaherty as Finance Minister. This guy is not the one to sell this.
  84. Western Bear from Canada writes: It is OUR Budget, Gents, at least until Mr. Ignatieff signs on. It is a rough one, but better coming from this side to that side, than the reverse.
  85. Kan Tankerous from Tronna, Canada writes:

    Regardless of which political party you worship, you have to admit one thing.

    The Reform crowd must have their Wranglers in a twist right about now.

    Y'all.
  86. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Municiplaities still have to APPLY to the feds for this new money and supply money of their own.

    This is not acceptable. On this point the COns DO NOT GET IT !!!!!
  87. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Rick McNaulty from CalgaryOttawa, Canada writes: Vern Vern Vern all real Canadians know who is behind the size of the budget.

    =======================

    Harper.

    .
  88. Gord Lewis from Greed Unabated, Canada writes: Why is that many grinning like the Village Idiot? Oh yeah, of course, he IS the Village Idiot. The article was just too full of hilarious comments for me to digest it at one go. But one priceless quip was “These are not ideological things.' Too funny!! This man is a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal, and he is in charge of printing more money, a few brief months after telling us everything would be rosy.

    'The Conservatives say their measures – which focus heavily on putting shovels and hammers to work ... ' Sure ... shovelling CCRAP p00p and hammering working class Canadians. LMAO!!

    BTW I am neither political nor idealogical ... but garbage is garbage, and my BS detector needle is buried ...
  89. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'How badly we miss that 2% off the GST now. All you Connies going to blame the Liberals for that?

    You and I don't care about 5 or 7% tax on a pair of shoes. But the government is missing the sum of that 2% big time. Someone tell me what that adds up to over the next two years plus the last 3 years...'

    The GST cut was a promise that the conservatives delivered on. How often do you see that in politics? Regardless of if you agree or disagree (that is your own opinion) with it the point is they deliver on what they promise.
  90. Just A Guy from Canada writes: Liberal, Tory...same story.
    The Conservatives have turned into the same big spending dolts the Liberals proved to be all due to lust for power.

    Conservatives should have stuck to their guns and told Iggy and his big spending Libs caucus to stick to being bagmen. Here comes an election and we already know where socialist lovin' Ontario and Qubec will go.
  91. Scotia Rae from Canada writes: This budget really slogs the middle class. They spend $35billion and only target $400mil towards the middle class? Thats a bit over 1% of the budget! so you get $3.85 per week extra and will probably pay higher taxes down the road to pay down the debt this will all incur. How about some relief for the middle class for a change? This is very disappointing for a conservative budget in my opinion
  92. Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a budget forced on the Conservatives by the Liberals, the NDP and their Bloc allies. If we had a Conservative majority, we would not have this spending binge and would not be going into the red.
  93. John Kanuck from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Municiplaities still have to APPLY to the feds for this new money and supply money of their own.

    This is not acceptable.
    -----------------------------------
    Why is it not acceptable?
  94. Murray Richardson from Canada writes: How do you spell 'financial incompetence'? H-A-R-P-E-R F-L-A-H-E-R-T-Y.
  95. N N from Canada writes: Once again, politicians think that spending, spending, spending will actually help the economy. All that it does is increase the debt burden, which will only be a drag on future generations.

    It is unbelieveable that this government will reverse the years of debt reduction for little economic term gain in the short term and alot of longer term pain. Problem, is, that the Liberals would likely do the same. Guess that's why so many of us don't trust politicians.
  96. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: 'Quite apart from the budget, here's what parliament needs to bear in mind:

    1. No-one who breaks the law should be allowed to lead the government.

    2. No-one who seeks to buy MP votes should be a minister of the crown.

    3. No-one undermines health and safety regulation can be relied on to protect us.

    4. No-one who circumvents election rules should hold public office.

    5. No-one who lies in your face can be trusted. '

    Yes, the Liberals did all of those things as you have pointed out. But they have been voted out so let's move onto the present.
  97. Scotia Rae from Canada writes: Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a budget forced on the Conservatives by the Liberals, the NDP and their Bloc allies. If we had a Conservative majority, we would not have this spending binge and would not be going into the red.

    I agree completely
  98. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: $8 a week in tax cuts...time to go out and stimulate (tho' I hear Starbucks is already laying off workers so maybe I am too late...)
  99. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    flakerty still wants to sell 2 biillion worth of Canada's assets in the worst RE market in decades.

    Plus he still wants to halt pay equity for women.

    Unacceptable. .........

    Doing nothing for EI inequity for 600,000 unemployed who are not eligible RIGHT NOW is unacceptable. The only change is an extension of 5 weeeks for those already receiving it. Depending on the regions they live in that means little .........
  100. elizabeth vann from victoria, b.c., Canada writes: Molly Willsit: Your 4:49 lefty comments are one big reason why many are loathe to join your political group. Who wants to associate with forked tongue coalition types such as you.
  101. John Hertz from Canada writes: WOW What a mess. Harper has planned to mortgage your children and grand children so that he can remain in power.

    Harper, what a total incompetent.
  102. Bob Cajun from the glorious nation of coboconk, Canada writes: Now if they only allowed mortgage interest deductibility retroactive for the 2008 tax year for the rest of us, it would reverse the trend of falling house prices, halt the destruction of the middle class debt/equity ratios, and get the 92% who have jobs to actual start spending again. Instead, that 92% gets a few tax dollars per week to spend.
  103. Shari Lava from Canada writes: Now there is a good observation. Hey let's get you to spend lots of money, provide you bigger nooses to hang yourself financially, with a problem that started as a result of people being over-leveraged. Great Idea! Talk about creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. No, it's not the dirty thirties - yet.
  104. A Deeply concerned and overtaxed citizen from Canada writes: When in doubt, get in debt.

    Pray tell what will happen once interest rates begin to rise again? How much do you think it will cost to service the interest on these billions? Will Canada have to beg for money from the IMF(yikes!)? Will we just print more money?(oops can't do that) Maybe raise taxes?

    So it looks like that if your in the road and bridge building business, things will be booming for you (can you smell the bubble?). So what about all those that don't/can't build roads and bridges? Is there a Keynesian trick somewhere that says we should stimulate IT workers who's jobs got outsourced for example?

    Neither of the parties would have done anything different. Borrow and spend, spend, spend. The jokes on all you folks that insist on bashing the other guy for his party affiliation and vice versa. Good luck with that.
    Meanwhile, i'll continue stuffing the cash under the mattress.
  105. Wandering Willy from Canada writes: So apparently the net result is I may or may not qualify to get $199 which is what I am paying to send both my kids to Karate classes for one month.
  106. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: 'If we had a Conservative majority, we would not have this spending binge and would not be going into the red.'

    That has got to be the weakest argument of all.

    Bart Simpson, 'I didn't do it.'
  107. G Parsons from Canada writes: dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: None of this money should go to Alberta. They have plenty of money left over from 147 dollar oil days
    --------------------------------------------------------
    O.K. And none of Alberta's money will go to Ontario for equalization payments.
  108. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Dave, Thanks for the helpful advice re apples and oranges, but by your post I can easily surmise I've spent more time studying economics than you have ever spent reading anything. No matter, obviously your school of thought won this round of the publics imagination, but I take solace in the fact that mine has never ever been proven wrong yet, and this time will be the same.
  109. Loki Peterson from Toronto, Canada writes: I am underwhelmed. The tax cuts are useless and will result in a structural deficit for years to come. The Cons should be taken down by the coalition as soon as possible.
  110. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: Mike Sumners .... If we had a Conservative majority, we would not have this spending binge and would not be going into the red.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    I shudder to think, what this country would be like with Harpo in a majority. No way, that is the worst thing that could happen to this country. You need to take your reality meds again.

    Flaherty is at it again, he is going to sell hard assets at bargain basement prices to help balance the budget. That idiot just doesn't get it, and niether do you Mike.
  111. Craig W from Calgary, Canada writes: Life's Tough said: 'Did not really see anything in there for the autoworkers. Or am I missing something here?'

    Yeah, check the Ontario provincial bail out.
  112. Sir Robert Borden from Canada writes:
    A ‘voluntary centralized securities enforcement body’?
    Expect all current problems to continue if not get worse. Unless some real leadership appears Canada is headed for ‘third world status’.
  113. Mike G from Toronto, Canada writes: Does anyone really expect this to work? Where are all of these skilled workers going to come from to work on these infrastructure projects? Canada is already importing skilled workers.
    Previous attempts to spend a country out of recession seem to have largely failed. Witness Japan in the last decade. Why would we assume it will work for us?
    After sacrificing and cutting back for years to pay down our debt, we now undo all of that for the sake of popular opinion, which all political parties hope will resonate with the public and keep them in power.
    Soon we'll be back to the scenario where 30 cents of every tax dollar goes to servicing the national debt.
    The federal government is constructing a Ponzi scheme to achieve a short term gain, which our children will end up paying for years from now. Sorry, but I don't feel good about this.
  114. John Kanuck from Canada writes: I don't see much about credit card protections and oversight into their interest charges. Was that an area where the government was going to stick their fingers in.
  115. Buddy . from Away, Canada writes: I see nothing in here to stimulate business start ups or small business. Where do you think the new jobs, new wealth, new business will come from to replace the many that will soon fail?
  116. Palos Green from Canada writes: LOL at these sulking comments.
    Up until now the over-arching wing-nut theme has been 'It's the liberals fault' or 'the liberals did it too'.
    Now it's 'the liberals made me do it'

    My condolences to REAL conservatives who thought they were voting for ideals and principles.

    Time for proportional representation.
  117. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: 'Quite apart from the budget, here's what parliament needs to bear in mind:

    1. No-one who breaks the law should be allowed to lead the government.

    2. No-one who seeks to buy MP votes should be a minister of the crown.

    3. No-one undermines health and safety regulation can be relied on to protect us.

    4. No-one who circumvents election rules should hold public office.

    5. No-one who lies in your face can be trusted. '

    Yes, the Liberals did all of those things as you have pointed out. But they have been voted out so let's move onto the present.

    ========

    Well, as for the present government, we all know that Harper has done each of the things on that list.

    So unless you reject the some part of the list, you have to agree that Harper should be removed from office.

    As for the Liberals, NO Liberal candidate in the last election did ANY of the things on that list as far as I know.
  118. ah sails from Canada writes: Why are Flatulence and his crew all laughs and smiles...they think this economic disaster is fun or are they so happy to be back at work after their self imposed holiday of fraud
  119. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Buddy . from Away, Canada writes: 'I see nothing in here to stimulate business start ups or small business. Where do you think the new jobs, new wealth, new business will come from to replace the many that will soon fail? '

    The low rate of tax on the first $400,000 of annual small business profits has been extended to the first $500,000 of annual profits.
  120. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    Now would this be a techinical short term deficit ???

    Keep in mind friends the govt is racking up a 15 billon in deficit for 09/10 BEFORE any of this new spending kicks in.

    So where was their November update ???

    Why do COns lie ???
  121. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Scotia Rae from Canada writes: Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a budget forced on the Conservatives ...

    ====================

    What a bunch of dishonest wimps Cons are.

    If Harpo doesn't like the contents of his own budget then he's got no business putting it before the house. If he had a spine he could MAN UP and do what he thinks is best, couldn't he?

    You Cons make is sound like the Harpocrits have no confidence in their own selves.

    This government has got to be the most pathetic bunch of craven losers in the history of Canada.
  122. Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?
  123. rahim ladha from montreal, Canada writes: $12 billion over 2 years for Canada wide infrastructure programs does not sound like a lot if compared to just Qubec government infrastructure program for 2009 beging around $13 billion
  124. matt s from Canada writes: The Cons have been itching to spend like this for years. They were just looking for an opportunity to do so. As far as they're concerned, anything below 90% debt to GDP is fair game and needs to be spent. This is going to be a constant battle for the forseeable future, trying to keep Cons away from the public purse.
  125. Toast And coffee from Somewhere, Canada writes: The Susus......I don't know whether you read poory or are bad at math, but the tax savings are far more beneficial than you wrote.

    The personal deduction alone is worth much more than your figures and raising the income threshold s on the two lowest brackets will add save even more.

    If your are indeed a middle class earner this will help significantly. You will need to know about 'marginal' tax rates to calculate your personal savings.
  126. J Norman from Edmonton, Canada writes: It's too early to stimulate the construction industry. It will take at least another 6 months before the slowdown cuts into their obscene profit margins enough to make it worthwhile. My neighbor tried to get quotes for a roofing job last summer - they wanted nearly $10,000 for a 2-day, 2-man job! When he priced materials at Home Depot to DIY, it was under $1500.
  127. Mark Jolley from Waterloo, Canada writes: Damned if you do & damned if you don't. The Libs & NDP cried about the previous update, & now Jack won't vote for this budget because the Conservatives are going into a deficit in order to stimulate the economy. What a tool! This is a world wide recession. WE are a tenth of the size of the US. Until the world gets out of the recession, we are going to have to ride it out, no matter how much we spend.
    Of course we could hire all the union heads. Apparently they know everthing.
  128. S S from St. Catharines, Canada writes: The partisan positions and pervasive ignorance expressed in these posts suggest that organs like the Globe are either not doing their jobs of informing the public, or that it is not perceived to be their job.

    Will this budget help? Perhaps. How much? No one can say. It's true that nothing Canada does will matter if the rest of the world with whom we live, breathe and trade suffers enormous setbacks. But that does not mean that nothing is what we ought to do. Does it reflect Liberal influence, NDP, Bloc? Yes. but then those parties together represent a significant majority of the electorate, too.

    What's beyond dispute is that regardless of the effectiveness of the budget, only time will reveal it to us. I suspect the Liberals will support it, if only because they'd rather the Cons wear it, and it reflects enough of their stated concerns. That doesn't mean they won't speak out against some aspects of it, or the way it was introduced after a two month 'interregnum' induced by the fallacious and absurd economic statement of November.

    My own hope is that whoever is leading the country actually manages to solve problems, meet challenges, and recognize opportunities to make this a better place to live, not worse. And it will help if our public discourse isn't filled with unproductive partisan strawmen, ad hominems, non-sequiturs and fallacious argument. What can the Globe do to promote that?
  129. J S from Canada writes: Geez, in October Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Harper said there would be no deficit in the current year and they would not support deficit spending because our economy doesn't need it. I remind the Cons that the election that was held was also against Harper's own election law. How can we trust that anything these two men say is true? How can we trust that anything that these men say will get done? I'm actually surprised the budget speech didn't contain new legislation eliminating confidence motions...
  130. Im a Liberal and I will do anything to be in Power from Canada writes: Well dracula can always say no cant he?
  131. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Mark Jolley from Waterloo, Canada writes: Damned if you do & damned if you don't.

    ======================

    I imagine Dion felt that way when the Cons hypocritically criticised him for supporting their legislation.
  132. s like from Cochrane, Canada writes: rahim ladha

    That's why Quebec is perpetually in the hole and just going deeper which then requires that they extort more equalization payments from the rest of Canada to bail them out by threatening separation.
  133. Mark Jolley from Waterloo, Canada writes: No matter who is in power right now, they will be critized by the opposition. The government is always wrong, & the opposition knows everything. Bob Rae found out the hard way.
  134. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: gar gurr from Canada writes: Common sense must overcome partisan politics and ego. Of course the Liberals are glad to disconnect from him and his socialist buddy Duceppe.

    The LIEberals have no common sense, just a sense of entitlement. As a species, the Liberal-homo-slopous-forheadous is only a slight change in evolution from the Conservative-homo-knuckle-draggous with its receding forhead. Neither has advanced to forward thinking or social acceptance of the greater good for a whole society, rather than a select few. It must also be stated that the Neanderthal was a more highly evolved homo-erectous than the previous two specimens, that are still running around in Ottawa.
  135. Frank Enstein from Canada writes: Nothing more dangerous than a panic stricken government - feeling the need to do something - anything - regardless of long term consequences. The government made a mistake by reducing the GST- removing any cushion they had in the budget . Paul Martin called that right when the conservatives reduced the GST- said it was a big mistake, no cushion for a rainy day . Now the Conservatives ,which pride themselves on good fiscal management ,will add about $100 billion to the debt to be passed on to the next generation so the boomers can have their cake and eat it too. As for spending - we all know governements have a history of wasteful , mismanaged and inefficient spending - lots of money will be going to waste in the next 2 years, many will line their pockets. Many criticize the Liberals , but Paul Martin was probably the best finance minister Canada ever had.
  136. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    Now would this be a technical short term deficit ???

    Keep in mind friends the govt is racking up a 15 billion in deficit for 09/10 BEFORE any of this new spending kicks in.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Right on VERN, and so Technical too.
  137. B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, FCR, Canada writes: I'll ask it again -- how can the partisan whiners here criticize the government for giving them exactly what they asked for?

    NDP leader Jack Layton urged the Liberals to reject the budget and form a coalition government, arguing the budget fails to meet Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's criteria for a budget that protects the vulnerable, protects the jobs of today and creates the jobs of tomorrow.

    How does it not do that?
  138. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Gutsy move to introduce the concept of a national securities regulator. Quebec will not be pleased even though participation will be voluntary.
  139. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    'Now would this be a technical short term deficit ???

    Keep in mind friends the govt is racking up a 15 billion in deficit for 09/10 BEFORE any of this new spending kicks in. '

    Presumably when the economy recovers tax revenues increase and EI payments etc decrease.
  140. G P from Canada writes: I don't see how this budget creates the jobs of the future. Most of the money goes to construction and infrastructure. Of course, it's important to maintain our infrastructure, but I don't want to see new projects that maintain the status quo. I would like to see projects that will solve next year's problems - not last century's problems. This is a major concern, because our society is in transition due to climate change and we have to adapt now. Our government should be making decisions based on informed predictions, otherwise we are investing today in solutions that will be irrelevant tomorrow. I'm deeply concerned.
  141. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Does anyone really expect this to work? Where are all of these skilled workers going to come from to work on these infrastructure projects? Canada is already importing skilled workers.
    Previous attempts to spend a country out of recession seem to have largely failed. Witness Japan in the last decade. Why would we assume it will work for us?'

    NO one knows if it will work... it's beyond that now... it's gotten to the point where the current government wants to stay in power so they're will to bribe the other half with something they can't refuse. Like one poster said you're damned if you do damned if you don't.

    Besides it's not like the coalition wouldn't have done the same thing anyways. The only other option which is a toss up, we have another election... I personally would like to spend another 300 million and elect a majority if we can of some party and let them take the fall for all of this. At the very least we'll know who's fault it is.

    And of course if this doesn't work we'll be left with a ton of construction workers with no jobs and a massive bill that we have to pay somehow. Followed by finger pointing
  142. matt s from Canada writes: Did anyone catch a comment from the auditor general? What does Shiela Fraser thinks of this budget?
  143. Joel Girard from Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!
    -------------------
    But the Conservatives did. You can always resort to blaming the opposition but really, the sitting government is in power. You should blame the current government for folding under 'pressure' from the opposition.

    What is it with people not wanting to take responsibility?

    I know the Remenant gets it. Too bad most don't.
  144. James Durning from Canada writes: Weren't the opposition parties the ones asking for more spending before the initial budget was rejected? Now that deficit spending is unpopular, they've jumped to the other side. Don't understand how you can blame the Tories for trying first to be fiscally responsible, unless you blame them for the unwise political move of trying to reduce funding to parties, which when compared to this, is peanuts. This budget will probably pass with Liberal support. Pragmatic Liberals will understand that if the coalition actually came to power, they'd be forced to table an unpopular budget as well. Better to let the Conservatives take the blame.

    As for the Conservatives promise about deficit spending, things happen beyond our control. It's nice to have a scapegoat, but there's really no meaning in it; it doesn't help solve the problem.
  145. Nick W from Canada writes: no money for green initiatives....wouldn't want to hurt those oil companies' wallets....thanks Alberta/Maritimes!

    I can only pray the west follows up on its promise to seperate...then we'll let quebec go to and finally get some peace and quiet around here.
  146. Wassup Widat from Canada writes: Prior posts ...Scotia Rae from Canada writes: Mike Sumners from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a budget forced on the Conservatives by the Liberals, the NDP and their Bloc allies. If we had a Conservative majority, we would not have this spending binge and would not be going into the red.
    I agree completely

    I agree but would add that the cons are doing this just to hold power. I cannot support this budget - and the con's should support their ideals by presenting a budget with little or no planned deficit by making appropriate cuts. If it was defeated by leftie - the people could have decided between 1.) a balanced or near balanced budget for hard times - with hard measured cuts in appropriate non essential programs or 2.) a $30B or more deficit that leftie wants to run.
  147. b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'But the Conservatives did. You can always resort to blaming the opposition but really, the sitting government is in power. You should blame the current government for folding under 'pressure' from the opposition.'

    Ya it is their fault for folding under pressure but these aren't the most altruistic people... they all want a piece of power and they're willing to pretty much do whatever it takes to get it or keep it.
  148. ken g from Canadian in Cuernavaca, Canada writes: What about the $75 Billion that the Canadian banks received from the Government, wasn' t that supposed to provide the economic fix? Since it didn't can we get it back?
  149. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: IGGY is on TV right now, starting to back away from doing the only moral thing he could have done, and that was to defeat this horrible scourge on the Canadian public. So now the LIEberals can look back to the day when their imperial leader lead into a foggy footnote in some history textbook. May this be the end of the Liberal party of Canada once and for all.

    IGGY had one chance to do the right thing and he has screwed it up completely. Somethings never change, but a change in lineage: the Liberal-homo-slopous-forheadous is actually the direct ancestor to the Conservative-homo-knucklous-draggous, the former should be extinct within the next three years if this country is not taken over by the AIA (American Imperial Army).
  150. Anyone but Ignatieff; Rae and LeBlanc. or Duceppe for the new Liberal Leader. from Canada writes: It's hard to see what there is not to like in this budget. The NDP & the Bloc through their ususal anchors out and the Liberals are consulting. If the Liberals vote no the Conservatives will sweep the next General ERletion. The NDP are toast and the Little mqn from Quebec is still the Little Man from Quebec.
  151. Gerard Wood from Canada writes: I am totally appalled at the small mindedness of Canadians. Everyone on this site conveys an 'I'm allright Jack. Let everyone else starve!' It is time to stop looking up your a**es and try to be kinder and more generous. Millions of Canadians have to work at slave wages just to put food in their stomachs. Conservatives all seem to think that this is the way things should be! Change will come when people are so miserable that it does not matter wether they live or die. Until then 'Let them eat cake' . Just remember the consequences!!
  152. Pete Sake from Vancouver, Canada writes: This is absolutely hilarious. I've never seen so many peeved Liberals since the last election,....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    You people created this deficit now live with it. Nobody needed all these handouts but it was forced onto the Conservatives so live with it.
    If you really don't like it then get unelected Iggy to vote down so we can have an election and get the Conservative Majority that Canada wants.
    You guys are still so miffed that you never got more than 21 % of the vote and we don't even know yet if Iggy can muster up that big of a percentage.
    We know that Layton is gone after the next election unless the NDP is smart enough to get rid of him sooner.
  153. G H from Canada writes: So let me get this straight. If you spend 10 grand on a home reno you get a ta credit - that is supposing someone wants to take that plunge in shaky economic times (many would not risk it - I wouldn't) When people won't buy a new car what make the King think they will do a reno? All the infrastrucdture money has to be matched by the provinces or municipalities who are all facing tough deficits already. The King has instructed the jester to underwrite debts to financial institutions on our nickel. If you live in Ontario or Alberta you MIGHT qualify to get EI for 41 weeks, wheras if you live elsewhere you can get it for 50 weeks. We have created more of this most bloated government in history by setting up a new bearucratic agency to oversee this spending ... isn't that Jims job? And if you are a family with kids you will get a tax break of 500 bucks a year if you earn under 20K? And if you make 80k you get 200 bucks! Guess that would be a big help to lots - what a weeks groceries ... lookout Walmart here we come! anything for minimum wage single persons who don't even make enough money to pay rent or buy groceries? What about the D.I.N.K.S. ? Are they not losing their jobs too? How bout that environment and the tar sands ... hmmmm ... no 'green' incentives in the way of grants, tax breaks or money for R & D ... oh yeah the King don't care about the environment ... go home Chicken Little ... and write a new budget
  154. Paul B from Vancouver, Canada writes: Time to take the red pill...
  155. James Perly from Toronto, Canada writes: I also like the billions to be given to 'farms'. Just so we're clear, farming these days is done by huge agribusiness, and none of this money is for small independent farmers that might be doing things like say small scale organic farming. And as for cutting the corporate tax rates, they are low enough already (I am a profitable small business owner). But I guess if you are a big oil company from out west, a nice little free bump to your profits always helps. Please don't forget that they have a massive amount of leeway in terms of how this money actually gets spent, and when. The 50/50 split with the provinces is particularly disingenous, and is meant to cull the actual final number of projects approved.
  156. Jane McFarlane from Canada writes: Help me on this budget. Does this affect the taxes we file in April or do these benefite not start until next years taxes?
  157. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: IGGY is on TV right now, starting to back away from doing the only moral thing he could have done, and that was to defeat this horrible scourge on the Canadian public. So now the LIEberals can look back to the day when their imperial leader lead into a foggy footnote in some history textbook. May this be the end of the Liberal party of Canada once and for all.

    IGGY had one chance to do the right thing and he has screwed it up completely. Somethings never change, but Liberal-homo-slopous-forheadous is the direct ancestor to Conservative-homo-knuckle-draggous, the former should be extinct within the next three years if this country is not taken over by the AIA (American Imperial Army).
  158. Pete Sake from Vancouver, Canada writes: i have to laugh at verns earlier statement about 100 mil turning into 2 bil.
    Hey Vern...is that like the gun registery going from 10 mil to 2 bil under the liberals??????
  159. Tor Hill Sask. from Canada writes: The Liberals should vote the budget down for its flagrant lack of fiscal prudence. Tax cuts- not a drop of good, but the idea seems to sell. Home reno- not much eagerness to spend on the part of homeowners, and even less eagerness to spend on the part of the jobless. But the home reno scheme must have resonated in the focus groups, all of which may have been held in suburban Toronto.
  160. Dave Little from southern Ontario, no place to invest, Canada writes: IGGY is on TV right now, starting to back away from doing the only moral thing he could have done, and that was to defeat this horrible scourge on the Canadian public. So now the LIEberals can look back to the day when their imperial leader lead into a foggy footnote in some history textbook. May this be the end of the Liberal party of Canada once and for all.

    IGGY had one chance to do the right thing and he has screwed it up completely. Somethings never change, but Liberal-homo-slopous-forheadous is the direct ancestor to Conservative-homo-knuckle-draggous, the former should be extinct soon.
  161. Just a pimento from inside the olive, Canada writes: I wonder how many of those roads will be new shiny highways in the Gaspésie. Oh, right, that's where our surplus went.
  162. siren call from Canada writes: Kan Tankerous from Tronna, Canada writes:

    Regardless of which political party you worship, you have to admit one thing.

    The Reform crowd must have their Wranglers in a twist right about now.

    Y'all.
    ...................................................

    Yes. But the propaganda machine is hollering: IT ALL THE FAULT OF SOCIALISTZ AND SEPRATISTZ, y'all.'

    BTW -- just heard on the radio that the budget has the Flaherty idiot raising funds by selling off assets.

    The Libs asked what assets and were told no list exists.
    Yet Harpo and Flapo have solid numbers on this. Yeah right.

    Harper, surprisingly enough -- constantly getting worse at his job.
  163. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    What we really need is the coalition.

    They will spend at least twice this much and over half will go to Quebec.

    The coalition rocks.
    Harper bites.
  164. Antonio Bach from Canada writes: 'The remnant' poster is the only one who gets it. All this is for public consumption and the fact that businesses are still taxed says it all. The renovation credit is an insult to any owner contributing at preserving the patrimony of this country i.e. maintaining a healthy home. We are renters of our own places, renters for the State not for our future family. Never should we give our blood or our children's blood for this moquery of democracy civilization.
  165. garlick toast from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    'Under the budget, a two-parent family with two kids earning $80,000 would get $199 relief while the same family, if it earned only $20,000, would get $539.'

    How many 4 person families make 20 grand a year ?? LOL !!

    Fact is their gross income is far more than 20 grand.
    4 people making 20 grand gross should not be paying ANY taxes.

    This will take some time to digest.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    What's to digest? 2000 hrs working @ $10.00 per hr. = $20,000. Even with two children, the worker will pay tax. It's how the poor subsidize the less poor. Revenue Canada creates poverty.
  166. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: You go, Harper! Hammer that middle class! What have they done for this country anyway?
  167. Right Winger from Canada writes: Good to see all the financial experts here crying in their kool aid. My goodness, with all these economic geniuses here posting , I have to wonder why we're in this mess.
    I don't like this debt either, but at least I can see things for what they are. The coalition of idiots forced this onto us, and I for one am glad Harper gave us this budget.
    If those 3 fools had the chance I shudder to think of how bad it would be.Jack would pay for everyone's daycare, drugs and lives, Gilles would be ordering more french signs for Alberta and boxes of culture from Europe and Iggy would...well who knows what Iggy would do, even he doesn't know.
    This budget would have the same effect if Harper didn't spend a dime. But seeing what the alternative would be, this is a fantastic budget.
    Gotta feel bad for Layton though. This is his only kick at the can to be somebody and Iggy will take it away tomorrow. It's OK Jack. Spark up a doob and chill, it'll take your mind off of how much of a failure you've been.
  168. Stewart Mawdsley from Fort Smith, Canada writes: The problem with my fellow North Americans is that they don't seem to understand a basic truth. In tough economic times, you have to tighten your belts. This government nonsense about stimulus packages and bailouts perpetuates the myth that we can all keep living unsustainably. Sure! Let's reward big banks, investment firms and business for screwing everyone and themselves over through greed and idiocy. Let's reward protectionist, un-innovative markets like the auto industry. Let's not refocus our efforts on leading the world in green industry. Oh, and my favorite - MORE TAX CUTS WHEN WE FACE GOV'T DEFICITS!! How anyone can even imagine Harper and Flaherty as economists when they can't even add and subtract, as it seems, is beyond me. NO NO NO to running massive deficits! All conservatives have ever done is complain about the days of Trudeau and his overspending, which got us our 450 odd billion deficit in the first place. Paul Martin had it right in the 1990's - we all had to tighten our belts but we survived and restored a surplus budget, paid off 100 billion in debt (which, I don't know if you've heard, accumulates interest...) and our country prospered. I agree with an earlier poster - governments do not create wealth, simply redistribute it, and the government going into deficit DIRECTLY correlates to we, as Canadian citizens, having to pay these debts back in the future. Please God Mr. Ignatieff, topple these incompetent drones before Canada suffers their intended consequences.
  169. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: You know... I think that the Conservatives may be left of the Liberals now.
  170. Gaetan Pelletier from Parksville BC, Canada writes: How is this budget going to help me, when I'm struggling to survive on a wcb disability pension? And how is it going to help those struggling to survive on Canada Pension and Old Age Pension plans? Most of us are not taxed on WCB benefits and those on CPP and OA pension pay very little taxes, in some cases- none. Tell me, how is this helping the poor, that are injured or retired? And how does this affect low cost housing for this group of people?
  171. Duncan McCockenue from Calgary, Canada writes: 1/2 a billion for people not ready to retire but need to be retrained?! How bout toss them $100 G and call it even! Save yourself 400 million right there!
  172. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: test
  173. Peasinour Thyme from Edmonton, Canada writes: On the surface the budget appears palatable. It is a 'Liberal' budget, except that tax and spend has been changed to spend but don't tax, which hardly seems a viable solution.

    If Ignatieff signs off on this one, the only measures that will be implemented are the tax cuts and infrastructure spending in Conservative strongholds. Everything else will be done away with. What about daycare, real arts funding and real help to sustain at least the core of vital industries? Anything Harper has resisted doing in the past will still not get done, promises or not.

    He will not change; he will do as he has always done. In my view he has not had the best interests of Canada in mind when making decisions in the past. Chiefly, he has been more focused on self-preservation and tormenting the Liberals.

    For this reason Ignatieff must join with Layton and Duceppe in rejecting the budget by declining to express confidence in Harper.

    The Liberal budget will be similar to this, minus the tax cuts, but they are far more likely to deliver instead of putting conditions and exceptions on everything and miring the promised resources behind knots of red tape.

    Please, Mr Ignatieff, with all due respect, reject this budget and prepare to take your seat as the Prime Minister of Canada.
  174. John Kennedy from Montreal, Canada writes: So there is a deficit. What a surprise. The banks got bailed out along with the other thieves and now we all got to pay.
  175. Gerry 'Cold Cuts' Ritz from Tainted meat? HAHAHA! Now THAT'S funny!, writes: Billions being wasted in Afghanistan!
  176. CG fr Toronto from Canada writes:
    Leprechaun Flaherty calls it:

    'THE USE IT OR LOSE BUDGET' - that says it all!

    This is Harper's government - hardly inspires confidence

    Harper sat for a total of 13 days last year! He despises government

    His Royal Highness PMSH then takes 2 months off to try and save his

    Royal A$$

    It time for the GG to give the opposition a chance
  177. Brett Williams from Canada writes: 'b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!'

    WHAT UTTER BS. If that's true then why didn't they? If it's just to keep power you are admitting they only care about power and not Canada or their ideals. So what is the reason they did it then? Why did they have to do it? They didn't.
  178. T D from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Under the current circumstances, it looks like a budget in which everyone can take some solace and a budget everyone can take some umbrage.
    Unfortunately, this Conservative government has through 2008 ruled economically like George Bush...cut taxes and ramp up spending. Its spending increases year to year have been some of the largest in recent memory and its tax cuts, while well meaning, have been poorly chosen. Many of the tax credit schemes (sports, TFSA, etc.) benefit the taxpayers who earn the big money while failing to address the real issue (obese kids, in the case of the sports tax credit). The GST cut really doesn't impact the little consumer and has been condemned by most economists as the wrong tax to cut.
    In October we had an election which no one really wanted ($300,000,000). This broke one of Mr. Harper's promises. By the late fall of 2008, we bore witness to an economic statement which smugly suggested that there would be no deficit and the economy was firing on all cylinders. Further promises were abandoned with this budget.
    On a pet issue, apparently, there is to be federal money for a new football stadium in this city although a more pressing need is for sewer upgrades.
  179. Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: B.C. Expat from Ottawa-Hull, FCR, Canada writes: I'll ask it again -- how can the partisan whiners here criticize the government for giving them exactly what they asked for?

    NDP leader Jack Layton urged the Liberals to reject the budget and form a coalition government, arguing the budget fails to meet Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff's criteria for a budget that protects the vulnerable, protects the jobs of today and creates the jobs of tomorrow.

    How does it not do that?

    ==========================================

    Easy, the socialist/ separatist coalition was never about the economy, it was never even close to helping Canadians.

    The NDP tapes reveal that it was a conspiracy hatched a long time ago. It was a panicked power grab in response to $1.95.

    Harper called the bluff and coughed up a huge budget and has cornered Iggy, Layton and Duceppe with it.
  180. I Andrews from Canada writes: The BQ said, 'There is nothing in the budget to earn our support.'

    There was a typo.

    It should have said: There is nothing in the budget to BUY our support.
  181. Comments closed, censored, hidden, deleted, disappeared from Mini Bush-Obamatieff village, Canada writes: More, more, and still more, thrown into the economic black hole... --- Pain? 'Ain't felt nothing' yet, citizens! --- Time to consider seriously leaving sinking ship.... rats are already gone!
  182. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Short term offer to the provinces and municipalities ? No time to seriously weigh the consequences of spending what they don't have?

    Low cost loans to municipalities? Ottawa is looking to profit from the one's in need?

    Here's a funny one. The $199 to $259 in income tax refunds will stimulate the economy? How by going to rents or utilities?

    The speech was a campaign style joke. If Ignatieff passes this it will be to allow the public to see how this won't really pan out as the CPC projects. Let the Cons hang themselves with this ill conceived budget that they want people to believe was the fault of Liberal pressure. Yes the Libs wanted spending, but I think they had viable projects with the people in mind.
  183. Peter Wojnar from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    >>Harper takes Canada into red with first deficit in 12 years;

    Translation: Harper, after being blackmailed by the Liberal Party, takes Canada into red with first deficit in 12 years

    This deficit can be blamed on three things:

    1. The world economic crisis,
    2. Harper,
    3. But mostly on Iggy and the Liberal party for their insistence on huge wasteful infrastructure spending that will do little to nothing to help the economy.

    For those who already forget, Bob Rae tried the same thing in Ontario in the early 1990's, and all it did was exacerbate the recession.

    Oh well, even though this outcome is bad, it's still better than what would have happened under a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition.
  184. My Humble Opinion from Canada writes: The Cons are in power and we are back to being in a deficit. Go figure.
  185. Joe V from Canada writes: The irony is that if not for interest payments on the debt, there wouldn't be a deficit. Did the retards at the helm not notice that? Or maybe they did and they are just so selfish that they will continue the cycle of debt in order to buy votes.
  186. Sally Struthers from Canada writes: WE NOW HAVE NOT ONE, BUT TWO LIBERAL PARTIES!!! YAY! STEVE, DO YOU REALLY WANT IT THAT BAD??
  187. Terry Balaban from Canada writes: I have read that the NDP and the Bloc will not support this budget even thought they no nothing about it.

    The only way they can be part of the government is to defeat the Conservatives and hope to swing their might as part of the coalition. Hey Dueceppe and Layton, how about working with the government to help Canada progress and get out of theis economic crisis.

    At least Micheal I of the Liberals is going to study the budget and then form his opinion.
    I hope the reason will prevail and the Liberals will not lower themselves to the take my ball and leave attitude of the NDP and BC.
  188. P S from Canada writes: How can anyone vote against something that promises the world with no information on how the world will be delivered!?!?!

    The problem with the Conservatives is that they always promise the world. Their poromises for spending is always so heavily contingent upon matching funds from cities or provinces that don't have it - or subject to a ridiculous amount of bureaucracy - that nothing is ever spent or done.

    I think the Libs have no choice but to vote in favour and to pick their battles as the Conservatives weasel themselves out of all of the promises with fine print in the enacting legislation.

    What a waste of time.
  189. Mr X from Canada writes: Frank Enstein from Canada writes: Nothing more dangerous than a panic stricken government - feeling the need to do something - anything - regardless of long term consequences. The government made a mistake by reducing the GST- removing any cushion they had in the budget . Paul Martin called that right when the conservatives reduced the GST- said it was a big mistake, no cushion for a rainy day . Now the Conservatives ,which pride themselves on good fiscal management ,will add about $100 billion to the debt to be passed on to the next generation so the boomers can have their cake and eat it too. As for spending - we all know governements have a history of wasteful , mismanaged and inefficient spending - lots of money will be going to waste in the next 2 years, many will line their pockets. Many criticize the Liberals , but Paul Martin was probably the best finance minister Canada ever had. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About 40,000 Americans lost their jobs yesterday. When Paul Martin was finance minister the Americans also ran a surplus. Paul cut on the debt on the backs of the sick, the impoverished, the student and the unemployed by cutting transfers to the provinces and by restricting access to EI. It is easy to offload onto others and let them bear the brunt of reduced funding.
  190. steve allan from Canada writes: The budget is good for seniors and the construction trade but not much else. I don't think it's a good budget but what I think is irrelevant. What do the Liberals think?

    Too much spending is geared towards infrastructure and construction, not enough is geared to average Canadians to help them cope with the pain of higher property taxes, utility bills, and historically low interest rates. People with money in the bank are facing hardship as their savings are eroding because the interest rates are even covering the rate of inflation.

    They tinkered around the edges but really didn't deliver a strong budget for hard times. It will be interesting to see how the Liberals view it. If they share my analysis, this government will be history.
  191. Canadian born liberal-conservative Muslim from Ottawa, Canada writes: Dave Little from Southern Ontario...

    A Conservative majority; the worst thing to happen to this country? That is your opinion. Your opinion is NOT shared with atleast 38% of the Canadian populace.
  192. steve allan from Canada writes: The reno incentive is a joke. The only people who benefit from that are the contractors who pad their bill by increasing their prices and gobbling up what savings the homeowner gets.

    If you're a homeowner, don't fall for that program, it's a real scam.
  193. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Hello ..... all talk no real action points ..... what if you loose your job? nothing! and for the new PPP Zarr is ..... PPP for provinces ..... and they now admit that things are going south in so much the defect spending is well beyond 2010.... and they now admit the Olympics is in more trouble ..... as for the banks they are basking in their $75 billion ..... so once again look out ..... our children and grandchildren have been put on notice in that they now will owe money and will have to look after their parents .... speaking of which many older families will have to think about taking their children ........... 67,000 jobs gone south and the banking system is now predicting 4 Trillion dollars required. and no word from Flaherty that he is open to more impute. And there is sense of Rob Paul to pay Peter ..... and nothing on the environment. Think last year home improvement people had many deals that they would pay the taxes ..... so kiss that goodbye as they will now adjust their pieces upward. So in closing if the opposition accepts, they keep their job and many, many Canadians are getting shaft and driven into the dark ages with items brought forward from the Autumn Financial Update. AND couched in this poor tasting Hodge pouch are hidden items to which be shoved down the throats of the opposition under the invisible cloak of Harperoronics extraordinaire.
  194. Western Bear from Canada writes: Mr. Girard:
    That would be 'Ruminant', but I get the joke. Right now, I want to put a whole bunch of insulation in the attic (take my tax break, for home reno) and 'Hibernate'.
  195. Kerry H from Ordinary, Canada writes: WOW!!! My family and I get $199.00.. WOOHOO!!

    Sounds like we will be taking a trip to the Barbados..
    No wait a minute maybe I should by my daughter a new pair of jeans..
    No wait a minute maybe a new ipod..

    What a joke..
  196. Shades of Grey from Whitehorse, Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: 'If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!'

    Actually, Harper had the choice to let the three opposition parties take down the government. He chose to go back on his stated principles to maintain power.
  197. Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: John Girrard: the remnant, me and you!

    Too few, too weak [as in we don't have a great amory like the RCMP] and above all battling crass stupidity and partisan political idiots...

    I guess they just do not want to see what's coming down the pike!
  198. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: holy shiza.

    Look at those corporate tax revenues in that pie.

    That's what I call a COLLAPSE.

    Wow.
  199. David any from Loon-A-Tick, Canada writes: The infrastructure money is contingent on the Province and Municipalities matching the money. They are broke so the Feds don't need to worry about the use it or lose it offer. It will never occur. It is a non-budget Budget. Great for training ...I will get more back on my income tax ... I will pay down my credit debit...But I would pay a fourtune to change the circumstances.
    Look....sorry this just doesn't do it...no vision....no risk....no nothing.
    Dave W.
  200. Kit's Kat from Vancouver, Canada writes: I cannot believe some conservative posts. Have any studies been conducted in regard to a conservative personality type, as it seems many conservative exhibit similar traits. They cannot admit fault, they are short sighted, they pass blame, and they seem incapable of learning from their mistakes. I am so curious as to what makes them tick. I would like to say intelligence but unfortunately I do know some very smart people who are conservative.

    With that being said, it is a shame but not a surprise that the environment was again overlooked by this conservative government.
  201. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: -
    The Liberals will not support this budget.

    The tax cuts are too grandiose even in good times. What we need is significant stimulus, not a couple of hundred bucks that nobody will notice. People working provide economic recovery. Trickle down tax breaks to stimulate the economy have already been shown to be a fool's game. Just ask any American. Another point: tax cuts will just make it that much more difficult to get out of deficit.
  202. D Wiatzka from Canada writes: lol - The article says 'The Conservatives offered relatively little for corporate Canada ' yet Jack is quoted as having a fit at the end of the article saying corporations get $60 billion in tax cuts.

    What colour is the sky in your world, Mr Layton?
  203. David Luttmann from Victoria, BC, writes: Wow. An extra $199. What am I going to do with that? Oh ya....put it my gas tank because the oil companies are gouging Westerners by $0.20 a litre. Didn't see him acting on that at all. Or maybe we can get our $0.93 a litre in Victoria down to the $0.57 litre they pay in the USA....with our oil.
  204. Don D. from Canada writes: This is a sellout of everything I voted for when I voted Conservative.

    What a sellout. We were promised no deficits and no nanny state socialism.

    Some Conservatives are defending this and that makes me gag. Have you people no principles?

    The Harper government will do anything to stay in power. What a sellout. This government has NO SPINE.
  205. J M from Calgary, Canada writes: I find it ironic, instead of reducing taxes for the business to hire an EI recipiant, we're instead using that cash to extended his EI benifits.

    I found a lot of this budget goes toward ideas like this - unproductive infrastructure, First Nations, low and middle income tax earners, etc. Unfortunetly this type of spending is not the type of fiscal stimulus that is required right now. It will only reduce the value of Cdn$ and increase the rate of inflation. The increase in gasoline, and most other goods we purchase overseas will negate any benefit for these 'low income' people - the true tax on the poor. They may pay less taxes and get more in EI but will be paying twice for their gas and groceries. Such shortsightedness
  206. kevin o'connor from M'Chigeeng, Canada writes: Harper basically caved, or saw the light, whatever spin you want. This is less than I would have wanted for a stimulus, but acceptable. His feet need to be held to the fire to make sure he follows through, but he does not deserve to be defeated. Lets all praise minority governments. Harper clearly is vulnerable to ideological nonsense and easily drunk on power, and the other parties reigned him in, gave him a good slap, and he came around to the correct policy. If he was in majority, it's very unlikely we'd have a budget as sane as this.
  207. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: Cuts to the major science research agencies in order to fund more training positions in research. That reaches a new level of absurdity. Student's will have salaries to come and work in laboratories with no funding to train them in the research that the studentships are supposed to be providing the support for. Compare that to Obama's investment in NIH. Complete incompetence in terms of our science policy that will make us less competitive in the future. The government's vision of Canada, apparently, is all about extracting resources and you can forget about the well paying jobs associated with that once the immigration policy is changed to allow more and more temporary foreign workers. It's a race to the bottom.
  208. Chuck the Canuk from east of eden, Canada writes: What a useless budget. The normal working middle class couple is going to get a few hundred bucks in tax cuts and THIS is supposed to spur the economy upward and excite these people????? And just when do we get all this newly found wealth? In this years tax return? Or rather every payday when we get an extra $10 to $20? Yeah now THAT is sure gonna make me rush out and buy a new car. Jeeesh. Or maybe a new house with that big fat $750 credit. OOOOOOOH yeah that will clinch the deal on a $200K home. Everything in this budget is in the future, so they don't have to cut any cheques NOW, when people who have lost their jobs and businesses, need it. Cheapskates. And for God sakes, don't start letting more immigrants in to fill the jobs that might be created this spring or summer or fall. It seems all that is going to be created is construction jobs for infrastructure. We need good infrastructure for sure, but we also need sustanable, good paying high tech jobs for the future. Puny little tax breaks do not pay the bills, jobs do. Why didn't they lay aside several billion for small business owners or entrepreneurs to expand or start new businesses to hire unemployed people? That makes more sense to me than giving someone already working a tax break of maybe $199 a year.
  209. Dave Hasler from Edmonton, Canada writes: This budget is not about doing what’s right for Canada. This budget is about putting the liberals in an awkward position.

    Billions of new spending – as demanded by the opposition, regardless of where it spent is still new spending and an attempted stimulus. Regardless of what you want to stimulate or where you wish to spend the money – and we could argue the merits of targeted stimulus till we are blue and still be wrong – the fact remains that we have lost sight of what is actually important in these difficult economic times.

    What is actually needed is responsible government. Government that simply spends to save its own political hide is not responsible government. Opposition parties which demand billions in stimulus – and probably even more billions than were currently proposed simply because they want to buy our votes and our support makes for more irresponsible government than you could imagine.

    So will this budget save us? If it does pass, it’s unlikely. Will the opposition billions upon billions of spending say this? If that comes to pass it’s unlikely to save us as well. How one earth can you expect to stimulate a national economy when the world is an economic turmoil. This problem is much bigger than anything the Federal government can do to resolve the problem. Canadians who are expecting these kind of miracles are seriously deluding themselves.

    Where are all these billions of dollars coming from? Are we mortgaging our future so political parties can curry favor and hopefully win a few votes? We are all very slow learners if we believe this or any budget can end a recession. The answer is right in our own pockets. Take your wallet out and go to the store and buy something – that is a fundamental economic factor, without which this recession will not end. All the government is doing is trying to spend your money for you because you are incapable or unwilling to spending it yourself.
  210. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Bring it on - uhmmm.....but just make sure that the industry that I work in gets the lion's share..puhleeze Mr. Flaherty?
  211. Patrick O'Meara from Canada writes: Harper hates this budget but he is doing it anyway to stay in power. He shows once again he is not a man of principle despite all his earlier self righteousness. I guess all of you antigovernment right wing supporters will have to stay home next election or better still still start another right wing party, the New Reform.
  212. James Henline from Canada writes: NDP opposited already...I flippen hate the NDP, they are the most annoying and useless party in Canada..Bloq is close to that too.
  213. Edwin Green from NS, Canada writes: if iggy votes for the budget layton is going to cut of his mustash he wants to be PM, fe fi fo fum ndpipper on the run
  214. l thibl from B.C., Canada writes: $85 billion smackerous eh? Somebody had better change the definition of Conservative.

    This will do zip 4 the economy anyways no matter.
  215. David Miller from Canada writes: The amount of FRAUD regarding the Home Renovation credit will be amazing. Every idiot with a hammer will be issuing invoices to every other idiot.
  216. joseph Amaral from Canada writes: im still amazed that the conservatives or any party actually believe they have have the right 'answer' to these economic woes that ail the world. maybe if we wait long enough and the politicians quibble even longer, we won't need a 'recession budget'. take your time Mr.Ignaeteff(sp)!!
  217. Misty Morning from Canada writes: I did submit a comment, or actually it was a quote from mr. Flaherty's speech, but it seems not to have been accepted. Mr. Flaherty is going to be given a free hand to extend credit, lines of credit, or guarantees to any federal institution. This is not subject to a vote in Parliament, this is given to the Finance Minister by the Prime Minister. Sounds like writing a blank cheque to me. Maybe it is just another poison pill injected into a sick economy. If any of you are interested, go to the text of Mr. Flaherty's speech. It is near the end. 'We don't foresee needing to use it.'
  218. Luke Ellis from Sudbury, Canada writes: Well at least now those families only earning 20k will not loose their houses I mean there going to get a whole $529.00! I guess that's what Harper thinks a years mortgage costs on a regular home.
  219. James the second from Halifax, Canada writes: This budget just seems so hackneyed.....
  220. Raymond P from Canada writes: Now is the time to invest in a high speed rail line between Quebec City and Windsor. This idea has been kicked around for years but no politician has the guts or integrity to invest beyond the next election. Now that we are in the early days of a long recession, politicians may actually make a few long term decisions.

    Harper had no option but to make a middle of the road budget. Neither he nor Ignatieff would have gotten a majority if we went to another $300 million election. Let this game play out. If it turns out well, 3 or 4 years from now Canadians may reward Harper with a majority.
  221. alberta guy from Canada writes: This is a largely political budget to appease the coalition troika. Despite all the rhetoric we are no where a Great Depression scenerio.
  222. Norm Jom from Petawawa, Canada writes: Vern and others who commented on the low income earners and the benifits to them. For those of us who are on a fixed disability income, usually between 8,000 and 12,000 a year, this budget will do nothing at all as it's based on personal exemptions which already means we are not paying taxes. So there's really no benifit to any disabled person on a pension. There's very little or any low income earner at al really except because of an increase in personal exemptions a few more will be added to the ranks. Those already in dire need will stay that way and expect it to get worse. If you are a family of four and earning 20,000 there will indeed be some relief, obviously they must be doing this in concert with the child tax credit. And yes there are plenty of families of four that earn 20k, it's not a LOL moment at all, it's a sad reality. While there is some relief for low income earners it's really all geared toward the working poor and certainly not going to help fixed income, low bracket Canadians. It should help lower middle class and middle class to 80K but not by a lot. In a nutshell there's not much for the low income at all. The one thing that was of any good to me might have been social housing for disabled persons, except each time this happens small communities like mine never get a cent. I'm all for the infrastructure spending, but would have liked to see four laning of the trans-Canada in Ontario as well. Even though I have a conservative MP (a nutbar Cheryl Gallant) I doubt they will spend a dime in this region. Only concern she has is abortion issues and gay marriage.
  223. l thibl from Canada writes: $85 billion smackerous eh? Somebody had better change the definition of Conservative. This will do zip 4 the economy anyways no matter.
  224. Joe Canadian from Canada writes: Ignatieff & his liberals cannot afford to vote against the budget - they don't have the resources to finance another election anytime soon. The GG should realize by now that the coalition is not an option the Canadian voters will accept, under any circumstances. Layton is finished & his silly coalition scheme has done permanent damage to the ndp party. Duceppe is not worthy of a mention. So Mr. Harper, show me the money.
  225. Fortune's Favour from Toronto, Canada writes: If I wanted to vote NDP, I would have done so in October.
  226. Naomi Y from Canada writes: G P from Canada writes: I don't see how this budget creates the jobs of the future. Most of the money goes to construction and infrastructure. Of course, it's important to maintain our infrastructure, but I don't want to see new projects that maintain the status quo. I would like to see projects that will solve next year's problems - not last century's problems. This is a major concern, because our society is in transition due to climate change and we have to adapt now.
    --------------------------
    I agree. While the investment in public transit will generate return and should push foward, the additional 7.8B in construction stimulus is ridiculous.

    The money will be better spend in either cutting personal tax for the working ppl, invest in R&D or encouraging manufacturer in upgrading their machinery.

    The cut tax in computer is also weird, computer is no longer a expensive equipment and I doubt that will help Canada's productivity unless it's aim towards a data centre or server farm.
  227. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?

    ______________________

    Yes, indeedy. Also, painting the interior and/or exterior of your house. And, carpet and hardwood floors. It is, frankly, unbelievable.

    Read it all here:

    http://www.budget.gc.ca/2009/plan/bpc3c-eng.html
  228. benny ben from Montreal, writes: It's a garbage budget. I'm wondering what in this budget is going to get me spending again. Like always the middle class that have been tightening their belts for decades now only get peanuts. Unless my understanding is wrong, I don't think that it's the lowest tax brackets that will get this economy out of this recession. It's garbage, garbage, garbage. I think that I'll cut my spending and watch my budget. Thanks for nothing Flaherty.
  229. Ken Woodwords from Canada writes: To all recently laid off technology workers: This is your chance to buy a hard hat, steel toe boots, and line up with a shovel at hand. Your government, that happily tax you at the highest bracket, opened up thousands of job opportunities for you. (sarcasm)
  230. Bob Dylan's Voice from Canada writes: A budget that is well balanced and meets the requirements of the Liberal party. If you don't believe me watch the Liberals allow it to go through. If they didn't agree with it they would crush it tomorrow. Ignatieff just reported that the budget has many positives so sounds like he is signalling support.
  231. Matt C from Canada writes: A transit line, wind project, and maybe some housing upgrades. Is that it for green infrastructure? If so, that's pretty worthless.
  232. GK Cheese from Canada writes: In the old days we would sacrifice a virgin to make things right, but in the age of Madonna, we need to throw $20B out the window.
  233. Sir Robert Borden from Canada writes:
    When is becomes too cumbersome or expensive for a country to find out what uts citizens want, its time for a new system.

    It's time for a new government. Anyone who thinks we should spend the kind of bailout-billions were talking about here, without an election, has a hole in their head as well as their sole.
  234. Just In from Canada writes: G P from Canada writes: I don't see how this budget creates the jobs of the future. Most of the money goes to construction and infrastructure. Of course, it's important to maintain our infrastructure, but I don't want to see new projects that maintain the status quo. I would like to see projects that will solve next year's problems - not last century's problems.

    ----------

    I too am concerned about the short term patch work. After more construction, I doubt Canada will be more competitive. Instead, we will simply have a higher deficit and inflation. At a time when it is quite clear Ignatieff is unlikely to vote against the budget, Harper is still spreading money around buying votes. What if the down turn lasts longer? Year after year of road and bridge construction won't get us any further ahead in global competitiveness. The budget also sends a message to Canadians: 'those wearing work boots and hard hats will be looked after', so we will encourage our young to get into construction, building roads and bridges during down turns and building retail shopping malls during boom times.
  235. Truth S from Canada writes: Friends,

    Find yourself with a little leisure time on your hands? Need to unwind after a long day of stuffing cash into your Simmons Beautyrest? Well, just sit back and relax with a new stress management technique that's sure to unfurl your brow, retard your balding, and lower your expectations of the new Stephen Harper (when exactly did they perfect the personality transplant procedure? Is it merely cosmetic?? You bet it is!!!) So, take a moment and play..........'How many lies can you recall?'

    Grab a pen and paper, set an egg timer, aaaaaaaaaaaand GO!

    1. There'll be no recession unless the Liberals get elected.
    2. There IS no recession.
    3. There'll be no deficit unless the Liberals get elected.
    4. There IS no deficit.
    5. The coalition didn't even have the guts to sin, er, sign the deal in front of the flag!
    6. There was no bribe.
    7. God bless Canada.
    8. I've evolved.
    9. A coalition would be illegitimate.
    10. Elections Canada is seeking privileged documents that cannot be released.
    11. Reform will eliminate the deficit.....
    12. This is a new era of accountibility.
    13. The Opposition created this crisis!

    DING!

    The point? Don't trust ANY of this conciliatory talk or newspeak. The Throne Speech was the greatest diversionary tactic of them all. As the Prodigal Son so astutely observed, 'He (Steve) just can't help himself'.

    The stilleto is hidden in the stocking, Liberal ladies and gentleman. Now is the time for even greater vigilence and preparedness. This Reform school graduate (gawd, the man even looks like that vice-principal we all hated!) may be smarting, but he's still hellbent on his original agenda and master plan sure as hell more than ever.

    Speaking of hell, oh, what the hell.........google 'pathological liar'
  236. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?

    ______

    You bet. You can paint your house (inside and out), too. Also, buy new carpets and hardwood floors, pave your driveway and get a new kitchen sink. All tax deductible. Presumably, it is okay if the hardwood or carpet that you buy is made in Canada. Strings attached, if any, have not been revealed.

    This is quite absurd and I would encourage those applauding Harper and the gang to actually go and read the document. If the Liberals go along with this nonsense, the little hope I had for them will truly be lost. This is not about partisanship, I can assure you. This budget does nothing to create jobs, does nothing to help the most vulnerable, does nothing for the environment and hands $60 billion in tax cuts to corporations. The middle class might see about ten bucks a week. And, perhaps, a wine cellar.
  237. Centrist 1867 from Canada writes: Not very pleased with this budget. Cant really deny that the extra spending over the last two elections as well as GST cut are crippling us now. $100 B in extra debt will mean an extra 4 - 7 billion a year in servicing charges and should take a generation to get us back to where we are now.

    Still I thought that there would be more released that would create immediate jobs while spurring long-term competitiveness of the Canadian economy.
  238. dave canfor from Barrie, Canada writes: When the country runs a deficit, who/where does the money come from and who gets the interest?
  239. Pete H from Canada writes: S S from St. Catharines, Canada writes...........

    Well said and right on the mark.
  240. dave canfor from Barrie, Canada writes: Please could someone answer - who do we pay interest to on both deficit and debt?
  241. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?

    ______

    You bet. You can paint your house (inside and out), too. Also, buy new carpets and hardwood floors, pave your driveway and get a new kitchen sink. All tax deductible. Presumably, it is okay if the hardwood or carpet that you buy is made in Canada. Strings attached, if any, have not been revealed.

    This is quite absurd and I would encourage those applauding Harper and the gang to actually go and read the document. If the Liberals go along with this nonsense, the little hope I had for them will truly be lost. This is not about partisanship, I can assure you. This budget does nothing to create jobs, does nothing to help the most vulnerable, does nothing for the environment and hands $60 billion in tax cuts to corporations. The middle class might see about ten bucks a week. And, perhaps, a wine cellar.
  242. lynn R from Canada writes: Sorry just off the line a little bit to recommend an article -- a type of article that would never be published or selected by G&M

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123293057464414089.html

    Geithner Is Exactly Wrong on China Trade
    The dollar-yuan link has been a great boon to world prosperity.

    Thanks
  243. Truth S from Canada writes: Friends,

    Find yourself with a little leisure time on your hands? Need to unwind after a long day of stuffing cash into your Simmons Beautyrest? Well, just sit back and relax with a new stress management technique that's sure to unfurl your brow, retard your balding, and lower your expectations of the new Stephen Harper (when exactly did they perfect the personality transplant procedure? Is it merely cosmetic?? You bet it is!!!) So, take a moment and play..........'How many lies can you recall?'

    Grab a pen and paper, set an egg timer, aaaaaaaaaaaand GO!

    1. There'll be no recession unless the Liberals get elected.
    2. There IS no recession.
    3. There'll be no deficit unless the Liberals get elected.
    4. There IS no deficit.
    5. The coalition didn't even have the guts to sin, er, sign the deal in front of the flag!
    6. There was no bribe.
    7. God bless Canada.
    8. I've evolved.
    9. A coalition would be illegitimate.
    10. Elections Canada is seeking privileged documents that cannot be released.
    11. Reform will eliminate the deficit.....
    12. This is a new era of accountibility.
    13. The Opposition created this crisis!

    DING!

    The point? Don't trust ANY of this conciliatory talk or newspeak. The Throne Speech was the greatest diversionary tactic of them all. As the Prodigal Son so astutely observed, 'He (Steve) just can't help himself'.

    The stilleto is hidden in the stocking, Liberal ladies and gentleman. Now is the time for even greater vigilence and preparedness. This Reform school graduate (gawd, the man even looks like that vice-principal we all hated!) may be smarting, but he's still hellbent on his original agenda and master plan sure as hell more than ever.

    Speaking of hell, oh, what the hell.........google 'pathological liar'
  244. lynn R from Canada writes: Excerpt from the article:

    The real threat was a devalued dollar. In mid-2005, we finally forced China to delink from the dollar and mildly appreciate the yuan. Nevertheless, the trade deficit accelerated.

    Robert Mundell -- Nobel laureate, China expert, father of the euro and supply-side economics -- continued to warn that the trade deficit was perfectly natural. Worry about currency instability instead.
  245. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?

    ______

    You bet. You can paint your house (inside and out), too. Also, buy new carpets and hardwood floors, pave your driveway and get a new kitchen sink. All tax deductible. Presumably, it is okay if the hardwood or carpet that you buy is made in Canada. Strings attached, if any, have not been revealed.

    This is quite absurd and I would encourage those applauding Harper and the gang to actually go and read the document. If the Liberals go along with this nonsense, the little hope I had for them will truly be lost. This is not about partisanship, I can assure you. This budget does nothing to create jobs, does nothing to help the most vulnerable, does nothing for the environment and hands $60 billion in tax cuts to corporations. The middle class might see about ten bucks a week. And, perhaps, a wine cellar.
  246. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Looks like Harper is still up to his partisan politics and lie games: In an interview with CTV on Monday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper urged his Parliamentary colleagues to 'stop the political games and get on with the business of passing some of these economic measures.' If his budget is defeated, Harper said 'we'll have to go to an election and the people will have to decide this.' First, Harper is the master of political games and it was he that chose to close Parliament and presented a ridiculous partisan economic statement that blatently did not address the needs of Canada at a time of economic crisis and would strip unions of right to strike along with removal of pay equity settlements as well as bankrupting the opposition parties of Parliament. Secondly, Harper does not have any say in the order of the GG in the event his budget is voted down in a confidence vote. The GG and only she decides if she will allow the coalition to form the official opposition government or call an election. Given that parliament has only sat for a few days since Harper last called his illegial election, it would be unlikely that the GG would call an election to resolve the confidence vote. Yet, Harper in his 'interview' with CTV claims it would be an automatic election. LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE after LIE . . . Harper and his croonies should be investigated by the RCMP, oh wait, they all ready are !
  247. Gary Thomson from Canada writes: Apparently, there are no limits to what that whore Harper will do to hang on to power. If he is going to act like a Liberal, then give the reins to the Liberals. Harper apparently has no line in the sand, nothing he is willing to fight and `die`for. What a Mulroney.
  248. garlick toast from Canada writes: test this mess
  249. Dale Brown from Victoria, Canada writes: The budget blows a lot of money out in all directions. Little of the spending will end up accomplishing the real, long-term capital needs of the country, that is, the restructuring of the energy system. Four years from now the deficit will be much larger but Canada will be in no better positioned to deal with an international energy crisis. Worse really - because we will have less capacity to make the necessary infrastructure expenditures. Most ridiculous of all is the budget's huge commitment to the automobile - twelve billion dollars or more. Flaherty and crew suffer from an inability to look very far into the future.
  250. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: b l from Toronto, Canada writes: If this doesn't fix things I hope all you LIBERAL, NDP, BLOC remember this was YOUR doing! the Conservative government in power DIDN'T want to do it this way!

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Oh yes, and the conReform proposal was to do what ?

    Strip unions of their right to strike, cut pay equity settlements and bankrupt the opposition parties of Canadian Federal parliament.

    Yes, that would really help the economy wouldn't it ?

    Harper and his Hypocrites........sleep walking zombies
  251. steve allan from Canada writes: There's a 50-50 chance the government falls. I say bring them down.

    The fact is the Tories don't deserve to govern. They never saw the crisis coming and once it hit they had their heads firmly planted in the nether region where the sun never shines, pretending Canada was immune from the travails of the international economy.

    Is that the sort of government that can competently run our national affairs in a period of crisis? I think not. They should be defeated so we can have a majority government that has the competence and ideas to move this country forward.
  252. Centrist 1867 from Canada writes: sdkn
  253. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: J S from Canada writes: Geez, in October Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Harper said there would be no deficit in the current year ...

    nothing like a federal budget to bring out all the freeloading whiners who did not get enough of other peoples money. This is the budget Canadians wanted and 60% of Canadians want it to pass.

    No budget would never make the BLOC happy because they only care about Quebec and the NDP would ruin Canada with their vision of handouts for all so obviously with no free money for NDPers so they hate it.

    Don't like it tough. Or write your MP and tell him to vote against it Liberals because you are the only ones who do not know whether you like it or not.
  254. rock rock from toronto, Canada writes: I have a brilliant stimulus idea. Let's double the immigration, so all these people coming from 1st world can spend their dollars and stimulate our economy.

    thanks, i know i m smart...
  255. m y from Canada writes: what a failure. raise the GST and raise gas taxes.

    where's more money for kids and families. where's more for students.

    where's more money for innovation. hell, i wished i could vote for obama. when he comes he should make all them to fell little - they are.

    renovation money and credits? ridiculous....free gift for the rich.
  256. Randal Oulton from Toronto, Canada writes: >> Vern McPherson from Canada writes: How many 4 person families make 20 grand a year ?? LOL !!

    Clearly, you've never met Canada's true working class.

    But I agree, anyone making that much, shouldn't be paying a cent in taxes. They need it more than the maws of government do.
  257. General ledger from Winnipeg, Canada writes: It sounds to me like the Cons are saying 'the devil made me do it', i.e. Liberals, NDP, Bloc. The Conservative government had a choice of sticking with it's principles and bringing down their own budget. If the opposition parties then didn't like the budget they would have had the choice of bringing the government down. The G.G. could then have asked the Liberals to try and form a government or she could have called an election. However, Harper likes the seat of power, so did he capitulate in the circumstances? This is a Conservative budget, period, and they can't hide simply hide behind someone elses skirts. Guttless is the word!
  258. James the second from Halifax, Canada writes: I can't make hide nor hair of this reactionary budget....bugs bunny makes me laugh big time... oh and don't
    forget the 3 stooges
  259. Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: We're in trouble partly because too many Canadians spend money they don't have. And the government's remedy is to spend money they don't have. Priceless!

    Any guarantee that throwing money at everything will fix the problem? Any proof that, left alone, the economy wouldn't fix itself?

    I, for one, will put any tax cuts I get straight into the bank - thanks, Flaherty. But I feel sorry for the future generations who will have to pay the piper, sooner or later.
  260. If I had a million lobsters from canbabwe, Canada writes: Welcome to the greatest depression of the last 100 years. Make work projects? Sound familiar. Next they are gonna subsidize hobo trains to newfoundland to work int eh coal mines.

    12 Billion to buy clunker backed securities.
    billion s here, billions there.

    I can absolutely assure your country is now toast for 10 years. You are officially bankrupt.

    My god I didn't actually think they would do this, these stimulus programs are hyper inflationary and have not worked one iota since they were introduced woldwide months ago.

    Hyper inflation is now a certainty and our currency os absolutely screwed.

    We are now racing with the rest to the bottom of the currnecy ladder so we can export.

    I don' t know what to say other than my joke of Canbabwe has become a reality
  261. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: slapdash dapoint from harper is not a conservative, Canada writes: and there is the end of the canadian aliance / reform party pretending to be conservative!

    --------------------------------------

    Says it all slapdash.....great post !

    HARPER = BUSH = DONE !!
  262. If I had a million lobsters from canbabwe, Canada writes: I am stunned, we have just written our economic death certificate. Jesus 12 billion for clunker-backed securities. You people who think is great are friggin nuts.

    The old timers here and you know who you are, get into gold as fast as you can.

    they just signed out death certificate as a nation known for fiscal prudence. You think it was bad last year? well let me tell ya it will be 1000 times worse now.
  263. economic slave from Toronto, Canada writes: The power of fear is incredible. The Conservatives fear being toppled by the Coalition and, hence, produce a Liberal-NDP kind of budget. What is the true deficit figure? Right now so many figures have been thrown out that you get lost in the maze of figures. So far I've heard of the following spending: 70 billion to Financial Sector, 4 billion to auto sector and 64 billion in the latest budget
    That adds up to 138 billion. This translates to every Canadian just being saddled with over a $4000 debt. If the Conservatives gave every Canadian $4000 on the proviso they must spend it by the end of the year, wouldn't that be a better way to stimulate the economy? At least every Canadian would get $4000 of something.
    This way, most Canadians get nothing except a big tax bill down the road.
  264. Sir Robert Borden from Canada writes:
    Seems to me conditions have changed enough to warrant an election.
  265. Canadian born liberal-conservative Muslim from Ottawa, Canada writes: For the whining socialists out there, this budget introduced the only spending towards social housing than the last 30 Canadian budgets. SO STOP YOUR BICKERING. LIFE IS NOT A BEACH WITH HARPER. Meh, I've wanted to prove the majority of socialists or 99.9% of them are those who are unemployed, work at McDonalds, radical union members, homeless guy or weird reserved people you would see walking in your city downtown for my 4th year thesis. But I couldn't. I didnt major in Poly Sci. I instead wrote on the economic impact Socialist Trade Unions have on the Canadian economy. I don't remember the exact measurement but I assure you, it is having a huge negative impact; to the tune of $10's of billions of dollars. But your socialist CBC and the other media outlets won't report that. Do the research yourselves. You will be SUPRISED HOW SOCIALISM IS HURTING CANADA.
  266. Rick Jones from The Rock, Canada writes: Have tax cuts ever worked?

    Seriously.

    Didn't the US just go through 8 years of massive tax cuts with deficit spending?

    How'd that work out?
  267. S S from Canada writes: I am not quite sure how these numbers add up. We have corporate tax relief for $ 2Billion. This year we have a number of companies who normally pay taxes posting record losses and claim tax claw back. E.g. CIBC made a loss of 6 Billion and will claw back - Ask for a refund of previously paid taxes of more than 2 Billion (that's the number they have provided in their published financial statements)so will be some other banks , We also have our insurance companies also joining them. They will not be paying the taxes as usual and at the same time asking for refunds of Taxes already paid. I am confused with the attitude and lack of information to lead the public correctly in the Finance Ministers Budget Speech. They just dont get it.
  268. Percy from NL from Canada writes: I just had a drink to celebrate the fact that the Reformer from Alberta has just closed the door on right-wing Conservatism for years to come in Canada. It is so ironic that the province who claimed it was never listened to in Ottawa was kicked in the teeth by their own man. Right now I'll bet there are a lot of Conservatives in Alberta country thinking about a 'draft Paul Martin' campaign right now.
  269. Andrei Popov from United States writes: 1 billion specifically for southern ontario !!! why ?? what about manitoba or the maritimes...

    once again ontario gets everything
  270. Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: Vote this budget down! Now that Conservative/right-wing governments are more likely to mismanage the economy and produce massive deficits. Remember Mulroney, Reagon, G, H.W Bush, Harris, GW Bush and we can now add Harper to that list. I hope Canadians realize that the Conservatives/right wing governments are more likely to run deficits than the Liberals/NDP.
  271. Oppsedaisy dotcom from Canada writes:
    64 billion... peanuts, peanuts, peanuts. Too little too late.

    You guys are going to love the depression, standing around in soup lines yacking gibberish on the cell phone.
    But hold on, there won't be cell phones, much less cars and no end of useless gadgets.

    You will be absolutely thrilled when they pull the seats out of transit buses so they can cram 150 on board, standing room only.

    Oh well, the obesity problem will disappear, there is always a silver lining.

  272. garlick toast from Canada writes: If the Liberal party can't come up with a better budget, they should dissolve the party. Our corporate tax level is lower than the US's.The Boc report on lending patterns says that lending is up, therefore spending incentives are just going to add to debt.
  273. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: .

    Good to see Harper and Flaherty completely abandon the principles they have campaigned on since the formation of the Conservative Party.

    I wonder what else they're willing to betray for votes?

    .
  274. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    Woe is me ... say Liberal posters. I didn't get my entitlement. We are in a Recession and the greedy Liberals want a hand out.
  275. Plus 8 from Mont Tremblant, Canada writes:
    I don't get it.

    Much this 'stimulus' is contingent on cash-strapped provinces, stressed municipalities and thread bare universities magically coming up with matching funding? And if they don't match it, it isn't there.

    Provinces will have to put their citizens in hock to come up with their share. So we pay twice on that. Once federally and again provincially.

    For the municipalities, it's worse. They will have to raise our property taxes up in an already depressed housing market to come up with their share. Count the effect of that three times 1. the federal debt goes up, 2. your home's taxes rise and 3. the increased carrying costs on your house forces its price down.

    Where are universities going to come up with their matching funding....by firing professors as a cost saving? Selling off parts of the campus?

    In another area, it is eye-opening to see all the spending in Ontario...as that's where all the auto industry money is going. I am happy for Ontario as there is no strings on THAT money. But I suspect there is a connection between the gift to Ontario and the new seats finally granted it a few weeks ago. Harper has decided that Ontario is his ticket to a majority!

    GOD HELP YOU ONTARIO, YOU ARE BEING WOOED ;- ) (at a cost to the rest of us). Not your fault though. I guess Harper feels the Maritimes are not important enough, there is nothing much left out West and his previous love target, Quebec, showed it didn't trust him last October.

    If we take out the smoke-and-mirrors-ante-up-or- else money and the Ontario auto stuff..what's left? the rest is lost revenue and a hope the BofC and the banking system can save us.

    end
  276. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes:
    .
    The Liberals have got to be p1ssed.

    That's their budget that Harper is passing off as his!

    Watch Harper try to grow a unibrow now.

    Harper wants to be Michael Ignatieff!
    .
  277. Derek live..... from the center of the universe from Canada writes: dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: None of this money should go to Alberta. They have plenty of money left over from 147 dollar oil days ...thats not necessarily true ...we gave most of it away to people like you who hates us ....but your welcome ......
  278. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: .

    There are now five centre-left parties in Canada.

    Do we need that many?

    Which one can we get rid of?

    I say dump the one that has the creationists running science policy.
    .
  279. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: .

    Would the three voters in Canada who didn't get a personal gift from Harpoon in this budget please contact your Conservative MP!

    .
  280. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: .

    The Conservatives have now moved to the left of the Liberals on financial policy.

    If they could get the bible-thumpers, gun nuts and hang'em-high crowd out of the party they would be the NDP.

    .
  281. Derek live..... from the center of the universe from Canada writes: G H from Canada writes: So let me get this straight. If you spend 10 grand on a home reno you get a ta credit - that is supposing someone wants to take that plunge in shaky economic times (many would not risk it - I wouldn't) When people won't buy a new car what make the King think they will do a reno? ....are you comparing buying a depreciating asset like a car to investing in the best long term investment available ???? you must be an ndp supporter ...sounds like jack economics 101 to me
  282. Derek live..... from the center of the universe from Canada writes: I suspect another right slanted party will emerge in the west again....appeasement and compromise to gain power always leads to watering down of conservative principles ...uggggh!!!! ...we have the libs , NDP and PC party all over again
  283. No Hoar Like An Old Hoar from If I had known I would get caught I never would have done it, Canada writes: ... total federal spending rising to a crescendo of $294-billion in fiscal 2013-14.

    That's insane. Why in God's name are they blasting money five years into the future to deal with a recession that's happening now? I really never believed they were capable of this level of blithering folly.

  284. No Hoar Like An Old Hoar from If I had known I would get caught I never would have done it, Canada writes: The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes:
    .
    The Liberals have got to be p1ssed.

    That's their budget that Harper is passing off as his!

    Watch Harper try to grow a unibrow now.

    Harper wants to be Michael Ignatieff!
    .

    =============

    That must be his strategy to avoid the a$$kicking Obama plans to lay on him.
  285. Chris O'Regan from Canada writes: Funny how all you Flahper apologists are calling this a Liberal budget. Funny how -- if allowed to do so -- in two short years the CPC will undo practically all of the debt repayment done by the Liberals when they last ruled.

    Wake up, Canadians, remember what we sacrificed to pay off this debt. Flahper says we'll recover in five years but what does that mean? Well, we won't run a deficit, but we'll have added more than $80 billion to our debt. This is his idea of recovery?! What of our past sacrifices? All for nothing?

    Oh...and did anyone notice that we actually have a billion dollar deficit posted for 2008-2009? Guess this finally confirms why Harper pulled the plug and called an election last year.
  286. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: J S from Canada writes: Geez, in October Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Harper said there would be no deficit in the current year ...

    nothing like a federal budget to bring out all the freeloading whiners who did not get enough of other peoples money. This is the budget Canadians wanted and 60% of Canadians want it to pass.

    No budget would never make the BLOC happy because they only care about Quebec and the NDP would ruin Canada with their vision of handouts for all so obviously with no free money for NDPers so they hate it.

    Don't like it tough. Or write your MP and tell him to vote against it Liberals because you are the only ones who do not know whether you like it or not.

    ------------------------------------------

    Your dear leader Mr 'Christianity' lied to you, his base, his followers, his pathetic supporters....he just sold his soul to the Liberals for what ? The sake of power........ You've been duped ...Get over it Wilma .....!!
  287. No Hoar Like An Old Hoar from I placed it in a safe deposit box, Canada writes: Andrei Popov from United States writes: 1 billion specifically for southern ontario !!! why ??

    ===========================

    Steve's little friend is the MP for Whitby, Ontario.
  288. North Star from Canada writes: Harper times are tough times.
  289. Montreal Guy from Montreal, Canada writes: S S from St. Catharines, Canada

    Good post except the only thing that was fallacious and absurd was the coalition. And now this budget.

    The budget is one of political survival for the Cons and not one they actually believe will lessen any recessionary effects.

    As a conservative I'd rather see them stick to their guns and defeated than present what they did today. Shameful.

    And anyhow how worse could a Liberal or Coalition budget be when I believe the number floated last month was 'only' 30B?
  290. Montreal Guy from Montreal, Canada writes: About previous post referring to deficit.
  291. Chris O'Regan from Canada writes: Flahper apologists, stop claiming this is a Liberal budget. The CPC is the ruling party (for now) and Flahper has his name all over it. Go to the CBC web site and tell me who are wearing $h!t-eating grins presenting this reeking pile. Gotta laugh at that picture of Flahper buying his new pair of shoes. Wonder if he borrowed the money...
  292. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Canadian born liberal-conservative Muslim from Ottawa, Canada writes: For the whining socialists out there, this budget introduced the only spending towards social housing than the last 30 Canadian budgets. SO STOP YOUR BICKERING. LIFE IS NOT A BEACH WITH HARPER. Meh, I've wanted to prove the majority of socialists or 99.9% of them are those who are unemployed, work at McDonalds, radical union members, homeless guy or weird reserved people you would see walking in your city downtown for my 4th year thesis. But I couldn't. I didnt major in Poly Sci. I instead wrote on the economic impact Socialist Trade Unions have on the Canadian economy. I don't remember the exact measurement but I assure you, it is having a huge negative impact; to the tune of $10's of billions of dollars. But your socialist CBC and the other media outlets won't report that. Do the research yourselves. You will be SUPRISED HOW SOCIALISM IS HURTING CANADA.

    ___________________

    You might wish to keep your alma mater secret, lest those alumni donations dry up.
  293. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: m y from Canada writes: what a failure. raise the GST and raise gas taxes.

    where's more money for kids and families. where's more for students

    How much do you think the tax payers are good for? it is our money they are throwing around.
  294. Andrei Popov from NYC, United States writes: once again ontario gets everything !!!
  295. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: J S from Canada writes: Geez, in October Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Harper said there would be no deficit in the current year ...

    Actually I am anti government and anti religion I believe every province should be separate with no central government.
  296. Western Bear from Canada writes: 'The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling'. Don't worry little one, at 12:00 PM EST, they all go to bed.
  297. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Maybe I haven't noticed but I see little in the way of green stuff in here ???

    Is there a requirement for green renos to houses ???

    Is there anything green in this ??

  298. Is there anybody out there from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: $40,000,000,000 to bribe support for neocon power.
  299. garlick toast from Canada writes: Yes Vern, it's a green reno plan. To fall for it you have to be not only green but wet behind the ears and recently fallen off the turnip wagon too.
  300. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: Is there anybody out there from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: $40,000,000,000 to bribe support for neocon power.

    Well do you think the Libbies will accept the bribe? I mean they are not beneath lying or stealing so whats a little bribery?
  301. M Mirza from Toronto, Canada writes: Before everybody passes judgements, wait and see if the budget passes, second, if it is actually implemented! only then the bankers lick their chops, autoworkers count their chickens & homeowners eat their cakes! Thank your lucky stars! 'cause in the US - no jobs, no healthcare, no cpp, no roof & 'nest egg kaput!'
  302. No Hoar Like An Old Hoar from I reported it to Revenue Canada when I realized they would discover it, Canada writes: The Liberals should move an amendment to include a carbon tax to offset some of the costs of this budget.
  303. barry bodell from abbotsford, Canada writes: Surprise, Surprise !! Political Budget at best. Why no change to EI to allow those currently not qualified to obtain relief? Why no change to RRSP/RRIF to help those hurt by the market decline ? Let's see how fast the Infrastructure funding gets into the system. My guess is there will be enough red tape in the criteria to slow this to a crawl. I hope somebody will 'follow the money' to make sure it is spent where it is supposed to be.
  304. Western Bear from Canada writes: Mr. No Hoar: That would just about seal the deal. Good Idea. Then we could get back to good ol Majority Conservative Gov. :)
  305. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: There are three key points that will not allow me to support this budget:

    1) Failure to restructure EI, leaving tens of thousands of unemployed workers ineligible for EI benefits. Extending the benefit period by five weeks is OK as far as it goes but the budget does not truly deal with the structural inequities in the system.

    2) Permanent tax cuts = permanent structural deficit. The government has hamstrung itself by reducing revenues to the point that it's la la land prediction of a return to surplus in five years is a fantasy that would leave Stephen King gasping.

    3) Much of the infrastructure spending will require provincial and municipal contributions. The provinces may be able to cover their nut, but many municipalities are already running on fumes. This may prevent much of this money flowing any time soon, much like the much ballyhooed, but in practice, unspent 33 billion infrastructure fund from previous budgets.
  306. Christopher Marcus from Toronto, Canada writes: What a stimulus! Fixing potholes and bridges, renovating houses and beautifying cities. If you go into the red numbers, you have to do it right, so that a future generation will profit: high-speed trains across the country connecting major cities, research and science, high technology, regenerative energy (one windfarm, lol!), communication systems etc. This one is so mediocre...
  307. Western Bear from Canada writes: Actually Mr. Flarehty said tonight, if the cities couldn't come up with the money, they would find another way to get it to them.
    As I recall they consulted with just about every 'mind' in the country. Some spoke this evening and where happy with the result. They talked to every Premier, and Most (all but one-guess who) came out of that meeting speaking good things. They talked to the Mayors of the 'bigger' cities all across the country. AND they even had time for Mr. Ignatieff & Mr. Brison. Unfortunately I do not think any Gov can effectively speak to every single citizen (and include their ideas in the budget), but I may be wrong. I did not hear one single idea in all that time, from the Liberal leadership, except some generalities and threats. Curious?
  308. The Centrist from Canada writes: What a weak spineless leader the Harper Conservative government has.

    It is incredulous that Harper has sold all his principles out-I thought he was a leader.

    The liberals in the interests of this country should support this budget and we should get rid of both these pathetic parties by demanding proportional representation.
  309. garlick toast from Canada writes: And to think he's an economist.
  310. G Custer from Edmonton, Canada writes: Government produces no wealth. They take wealth from others and redistribute it to others under their monopoly.

    Sorry, the its about 1.5 times the spending. Not, as good as the private section!

    I have searched this commernt page, but can't find anything worth commenting about or reading for that matter!
  311. G Custer from Edmonton, Canada writes: Some nights, the red wine has it's way with me :)
  312. Chad Remmel from Canada writes: Frankly the best economic stimulus would be to give each taxpayer 1 million dollars. Thus we would save 84 billion in a projected budget deficit. Require each Canadian to retain their job for 24 months, all monies cannot be removed from Canada and all monies has to be spent in Canada. and they have to buy one new car with 6 months.
    Better yet we could give each Canadian 1 billion dollars each and save 54 billion!!!!!!
    Talk about economic action! Look out! Spend, spend. Spend.
    Oh right the poor banks would scream about it. No loans.......but hey the Government can sure get a lot of tax back!
  313. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Western Bear from Canada writes: Actually Mr. Flarehty said tonight, if the cities couldn't come up with the money, they would find another way to get it to them.
    Posted 27/01/09 at 11:57 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =============================

    flakerty clearly said the money for infrastructure is use it or lose it money. Which means the provinces and cities and municiplaities will also need to go into deficit to match federal funds ...................

    ..........or get nothing.

    The best they WILL do is 50 %. which still leaves half of the project costs tossed onto provinces or local govts who are already strapped.

    Moreover, cities half to 'apply' for the money per project and that means more red tape and delay. Already the infrastructure funding previously announced 3 years ago hasn't moved off the paper to the cities.

    BY THE WAY IT'S A COns BUDGET NOT A LIBERAL BUDGET. GET THAT STRAIGHT IN YOUR HEAD.
  314. Chad Remmel from Canada writes: Yeah my math is poor - its the idea that counts.
  315. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: Part 1:

    Well judging from today's announced budget spending I'm afraid that the PM of our country, Steven Harper who represents a riding in Calgary by the way, thank-you sooooo much for that-parachuting in a Marxist baffoon into Ottawa by stealth-discuised as some sort of grassroots conservative but I digress, has had what-if any-intellect and economic understanding (judging from his spastic tactical blunders the past few weeks I think we were all sadly mistaken that he had any but again I digress) hi jacked by his communist masters in Beijing.

    As for his leadership abilities, and his party's for that matter, and their ability to stay true to their beliefs, to stay true to their core supporters and heck even do what is right in the face of adversity in the form of a recession, a crippled and bankrupt Liberal Party of Toronto, the Bloc!!! yes the Bloc, NDP and the CBC yes those wimps, the CBC, just to hold on to power for another 8 or 9 months-well we can now conclude he never had any leadership abilities and never had any balls to begin with. It is only because of the failings of the Liberal Party of Toronto he got anywhere near the position of Prime Minister of Canada that much is clear to see.
  316. siren call from Canada writes: The game's afoot. Or, on several feet:

    OTTAWA - Liberal MPs emerged from a meeting last night saying they expect their leader, Michael Ignatieff, will demand changes to yesterday's Conservative budget in return for their support.
  317. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: Part 2:

    I do not mock you in Calgary, but rather to appeal to you as you had so nearly created something good but it just went a little left at the end, somehow someplace either by design from communist agents based out of Minsk, or by selling out to maintain the lifestyle that comes with living in Ottawa and making regular visits to the great bastion of liberal banality that is Toronto and all it's material trappings the leadership and thus direction of your wonderful, conservative movement that grew out from Alberta and the interior of British Columbia and offered us in Toronto so much hope, has after a bloodless and subtle putsch of the original leadership, veered sharply left into an area inhabited only by Marxists. While I'm sure our budget will be applauded by their masters in such wonderfully diverse capital cities as Damascus, Astana, Tashkent, Caracas and Havana the freedom and liberty loving citizen of Toronto can only appeal to you Albertans, to 'try again', 'please try again'.
  318. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: Part 3:

    We here in Toronto are counting on you Albertans to try again, we need a real Conservative party, then when you form one, announce independence from the People's Republic of Canuckistan and give the rest of the citizens of the country a 12 month grace period by which we can pack our bags and come join you and be citizens of your free country free from useless bloated government spending and programs, Human Rights Commissions and 50% taxation rates. I'm sure you can get parts of British Columbia and Saskatchewan to join, again I plead as Princess Leigha appealed 'help me obey one Kanobe you're only my hope', I plead 'help me Republic of Alberta you're my only hope'. Prime Minister Harper has dupped us all and is really an Empire agent you weren't to know, we don't blame you, we were all fooled, but it's time to try again.
  319. stan unknown from winnipeg, Canada writes:
    'Government produces no wealth. They take wealth from others and redistribute it to others under their monopoly of the monetary system and violence'
    -------------------------------
    That is not quite true. St. Lawrence sea way, Trans Canada Highway
    Electrification, Health Care, Air Flight, Grade School. > All, created avenues for you to create your own personal family wealth.

    This 'Global recession' was made by the absolute and disgusting failure of Private Enterprise. Banks, Loan Sharks, Loan agencies, useless stock
    gamblers, greed expectations on Savings / Pension funds plans, Oil companies and the Free news media for not doing their work, having become simple minded memo repeaters. Globally. All whom took profit (tax) from others and HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH IT>

    'This' recession was not Government made. It will take a clever government to get people back on the right track. So far a band aid has been granted. We need avenues. > more electrification, a couple of remaining provinces off of OIL, Better shipping avenues, improvements on exporting our natural resources to other countries, improved relations with the US, Heavens, we now have pilot-less plains at our borders, and passports. All of which is NON productive and an embarrassment
  320. sheila ross from Vancouver, Canada writes: If Ignatieff calls for changes, then he is not supporting the budget, and in effect we have second expression of non confidence by a majority in the house. Harper should resign.
  321. The Centrist from Canada writes: Martyn Whitt - With the greatest of respect to your point, I would make an opposite point.

    I dislike having the Conservative party in power because I'm left of centre.

    Does this mean that I should separate too because I'm not getting my way? Whenever I don't get my way, can I threaten to separate too?

    My point-I still love my country even when the Conservatives are shoving their right wing agenda down my throat.
  322. PROUDCANADIAN2008 B from Canada writes: I'm not a conservative supporter, BUT I cannot see
    myself supporting the Liberal Party who refuses to allow
    average Canadians any tax breaks. We need tax cuts, let
    us keep the hard earned money we make. It's bad enough
    the economy is down, and the banks/credit card companies are
    strangling consumer's with high interest, and little access to credit.
    But the government needs to CUT INCOME TAXES to keep money in our pockets while we still have jobs that make us money. Liberals are clearly demonstrating their aristocratic money hungery ambitions, let us keep our money. CUT TAXES, we need our OWN incomes more than ever. How can they only think about missing Tax revenues they only want to spend on themselves and their political agenda's(ie. Liberal Sponsership scandal. Look at the U.S for positive change, Obama fights for the common citizen, and is not backing down on TAX cuts. Why is our government so out of touch with the average Canadian. IT's comparable to an Upper Class Monarchy, and we're simply their hard working tax paying slaves. If we try to earn more, we're taxed to DEATH, while politican's have tax free incomes, and their children attend prestious schools. NO MORE TAXES.
  323. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Yes, its definitely time for Western Canadians to consider the benefits of separation.

    .
  324. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Don't jump the gun Sheila. Amendments to the budget are allowed without necessarily voting it down UNLESS the amendments fundamentally change the budget in such a way that the governing party cannot accept. In that case it would be a defacto non-confidence motion and the government would have to resign.
  325. Stan Sambey from Canada writes: Man oh man. We NEED infrastructure replacement regardless of recession and/or depression. Roads, bridges, rails, locks, dams built half a century ago need to be replaced. Should have been done half a generation ago.

    And when did we become such wussies in this country. If any Canadian was at all serious about their childrens future we'd right now today BEG for an extra point or two of taxes. Deficits are NOT Canadian in my mind. Who would not ante up an extra few bucks a week to keep your country ahead of the game while the rest of the world went to hell?!?

    If we as a country of men were serious we'd step up to the plate and have our ridiculous union wages reduced. As men, and fathers, and brothers, and companions in this country WE would take this burden and carry it to it's finish. Instead we banter and whine in these forums, right vs. left, east vs west, etc. et al.

    We need investment in renewable energy. This is Canada and a financial plan for the future is painfully obvious. We need government investment in creating two things we are known for internationally...food and energy. A national mandate in those two areas would keep us floating above all the mess.

    Food and energy. Look into lignocellulosic biomass and educate yourself on how these two industries can be successfully married into the future of our fantastic country.
  326. Joseph Freeman from Vancouver, Canada writes: Wow, Canadians talking about separation over THIS? Bizarre.

    This is called a functioning democracy, grounded in compromise and negotiation while protecting and acknowledging fundamental citizen rights.

    There is a reason this form of government has its own noble name and is not referred to as 'I'm taking my marbles home because I don't like you today.'

    If you're deciding whether you want to be a part of Canada tonight based upon a budget proposal, you really need to rethink whether it is you or the nation that needs an adjustment.
  327. John Longshot from Canada writes: Danny Williams should be defeated....the 'bone-head from the Rock'
  328. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: Actually I am anti government and anti religion I believe every province should be separate with no central government.
    Posted 27/01/09 at 11:13 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ==============================

    Is that cop-out meant to absolve all your previous stupidity here ?
  329. D Peters from Alberta, Canada writes: Hmmmm....$1290 for every man, woman, and child in the country. To bad the average person won't see a dime of it, but what the heck. There is a recession going on, lets throw all our money out the window.

    I seem to recall during my impressionable years 'too save for a rainy day', but I can't recall anyone ever saying 'as soon as it rains spend every penny you saved and then some'?

    If someone has $10K to spend on renovations to get a $1350 grant they sure don't need my money, they can just foot the bill on thier own.

    I do agree with the 'theory' of infrastructure spending, but the unions will make sure as little gets done as possible until all the money is gone.
  330. Just In from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Yes, its definitely time for Western Canadians to consider the benefits of separation.

    ------------

    That is repeated posturing by Alberta Separatists Manning Day Harper Prentice fake conservatives real welfare bums highway bandits who whine similar to Quebec Separatists:

    'we are victims'
    'we want a seat at the international table'

    but neither the Alberta nor the Quebec Separatists do go through with their threats. They are only trying to extort more Hand Outs from Canada.

    See my comments here:

    theglobeandmail.com
  331. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: The $5 a week tax cut is too reckless? If they're concerned about fiscal prudence it would seem returning EI to 1970s style largesse isn't a terribly practical route to go... But I give up; I don't really see why we bother holding elections in this country - no matter what the result the Liberals end up running the country. May as well just put in the constitution and be done with it.
  332. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: The Centrist from Canada.

    Valid point about seperating and loving your country, my rant was really directed at the Conservatives and the Prime Minister who has sold out his core support and beliefs to maintain power. I find it unpalatable.

    My little piece is an attempt at a humourous rant directed at a few friends of mine in Alberta and myself for voting Conservative thinking that they were uhhh conservative. Obviously I don't really think that the Conservative party was infiltrated by communist agents from Belarus, just that power has corrupted what the party originally stood for.

    As to whether Alberta should seperate, well I live in Toronto, and I feel pretty helpless today. We know who to vote for on the left, but who can we vote for if we believe in small government, less taxation and less government waste/programs? There is simply no option in this country at the moment, that is clear, and that is the point of my little rant.
  333. Just In from Canada writes: Harper abandoned Newfoundland saying 'I don't need your votes'. Then he incited Alberta Separatists sentiment and provoked Quebec Separatism.

    Stephen Harper is the mother of all Separatists.
  334. Western Bear from Canada writes: Mr. Vern:
    I do not think you will find a post from myself that says anything but: This is a Conservative Budget. I have been clear since the porogue. If you don't like it, vote it down. If it is OK, with your party, then let's get on with it. BUT most the 2.5 hrs of posting above, is a Liberal Cry Cry Cry fest.
  335. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: However I do wonder if this is the price to pay to keep confederation of the provinces together as a united Canada, then yes it's too expensive and we should go our seperate ways for the sole reason that we need to have some sort of future, some hope for our children as invidual citizens.
  336. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    As a hard core Conservative and Westerner, I am disappointed in Harper and the party. Giving in to Eastern dippers, going into massive deficit is not the conservative way. Canada should cut spending on social services and lower taxes as a stimulus to the economy.

    This is one Westerner that is mad as hell at what Canada has turned into.

    .
  337. diane marie from Canada writes: I am no tax expert, but I fail to see why tax cuts are justified. Inflation is at just about zero (Mr. Carney is discussing deflation). Energy costs are down, for the moment. If people are unemployed, they can seek EI. If they remain employed, everyday costs of living are no higher - indeed, they are lower. For the moment, consumer goods are cheaper as retailers try to shed excess stock and try to keep their costs (leases, for example) covered. The general consensus from the experience south of the border is that tax cuts have not been efficient job-producers. I just don't see this particular addition to the deficit pile-on. Comments?
  338. L P from Canada writes: No economic policies state that tax cuts and spending is bad for fighting a recession. The question is how effective and well monitored these policies are. The purpose of this budget is trying to get us out of the recession but the figures presented do not support as such, just not well focused.
  339. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Diane,

    Tax cuts are never a wrong solution in any scenario. Anything that keeps the socialists hands out of my wallet and pocket is a good thing.

    .
  340. diane marie from Canada writes: Could we dispense with the ridiculous suggestion that the Conservatives have turned into Liberals? The CPC grew government and mishandled its fiscal responsibilities. At the same time, c/Conservatives complain that the Liberals reduced the size of governments (that 'downloading' to provinces argument).
  341. diane marie from Canada writes: Natasha:-- What do you call the big bail-out of banks? Capitalism?
  342. J D from Canada writes: Zzzzzz. Let's face it, the budget is a non-story.
  343. Just In from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    As a hard core Conservative and Westerner, I am disappointed in Harper and the party. Giving in to Eastern dippers, going into massive deficit is not the conservative way. Canada should cut spending on social services and lower taxes as a stimulus to the economy.

    This is one Westerner that is mad as hell at what Canada has turned into.

    --------

    That is BS talking point from a self acknowledged Alberta Separatists fake conservative real welfare bum highway bandit who tosses lame threats against Canada about 'having unregistered guns'.

    theglobeandmail.com
  344. Just In from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Diane,

    Tax cuts are never a wrong solution in any scenario. Anything that keeps the socialists hands out of my wallet and pocket is a good thing.

    =======

    Alberta separatists fake conservatives want to take Canada for a ride or paddle up the creek. They are the worst welfare bums trying to steal Carbon Handout from Canada.

    See here:

    theglobeandmail.com
  345. Western Bear from Canada writes: Diane Marie: I agree with you that these (particular) tax cuts to the middle and upper tax brackets were not necessary. As we are going into this deficit, I believe we should have been asked to carry some of the weight. Many out there, think otherwise.

    As for EI though, it is not a 'Guaranteed Income Plan' it is a 'Employment Insurance Plan'. If the benefits are to go dramatically up, then the Canadian people and companies, would need to be convinced (via-ballot) to double (or how ever much it would take) there contributions. It is very a expensive, program.

    Not sure where you live, but it is much harder to feel that need out west. Jobs are still fairly plentiful, and we have not been hit so hard (maybe YET).
  346. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: diane marie - if tax cuts are so wrong you should call the White House and lecture the new guy about the error of his (proposed) ways. What he is proposing on that front is about 10X what our budget includes (it's about 0.14% of GDP). So far you're on the record as opposing tax cuts in good times and bad...I'm detecting a theme here...
  347. Mike Keith from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Who knew that Flaherty entered politics because of large Ontario defecits in the 90's? Good thing he was able to expand that deficit to >6 BILLION for Ontario and will now put Canada in a $64 BILLION deficit over the next two years. I hope he feels as retarded as he looks for cutting the GST which would be worth >30 Billion dollars in government revenues and increasing spending 25% in good times.

    Tory times are tough times.
  348. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: diane marie from Canada writes: Could we dispense with the ridiculous suggestion that the Conservatives have turned into Liberals? The CPC grew government and mishandled its fiscal responsibilities. At the same time, c/Conservatives complain that the Liberals reduced the size of governments (that 'downloading' to provinces argument).
    ______________

    The Trudeau Liberals sucked the provinces into expensive spending programs and then bailed on funding. Thats the downloading that Conservatives complain about.

    But the Conservatives have turned into the Liberals. Of course, now the Liberals will try to out-Liberal them in a dog-fight to tax and spend our money. I'm so grateful that the government will be taking thousands of my dollars to spend on hockey arenas and the arts.

    Stimulus? No thanks. I'm burying my money in the backyard to pay for all this garbage when the bill comes due in a few years. Either that or I should just ask to be laid off so I can join everyone at the trough.
  349. peterx zil from povertyville, Canada writes: As expected no undoing of the massive damage these incompetents have done to millions of retirees with their income trust blunders. Flaherty and Harper have absolutely no concern for ordinary Canadians.
  350. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Diane wrote: Natasha:-- What do you call the big bail-out of banks? Capitalism?

    Diane, I call it wrong. There should have been no bailout.

    .
  351. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Quite apart from the budget, here's what parliament needs to bear in mind:

    1. No-one who breaks the law should be allowed to lead the government.

    2. No-one who seeks to buy MP votes should be a minister of the crown.

    3. No-one undermines health and safety regulation can be relied on to protect us.

    4. No-one who circumvents election rules should hold public office.

    5. No-one who lies in your face can be trusted.

    Do you mind keeping those ready to present to your fellow constituents when the next election looms? We seem to have extremely short attention spans when it come to our politicians.
  352. Western Bear from Canada writes: Systematic Risk: I am die-hard Conservative, but Mr. Obamas' playing with fire. I do not envy him at all. We took tax breaks when we were paying down the debt, based on the interest savings. Not for the poorer folks, but the upper taxable folks, should expect their taxes to rise, when we are adding to the debt.
  353. Winston Smith from Canada writes: Time to put an end to these incompetent Tories. During the boom years they were spending like drunken sailors instead of saving for a rainy day. Now there is no cushion left so Canada goes deep into debt at the first sign of trouble.

    Tory Fiscal managment = F
  354. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?



    My guess would be yes... as long as you use CDN lumber and spend over $1000 doing it. Don't forget to stock it with local wines so as to help our local economies.
  355. D JL from Canada writes: LOL...

    Danny W. from NFL you are now pushing your luck....Explain your position exactly. Take into account the rest of the country for a change.

    This is not a perfect budget, far from it. But not enough to defeat the Gov. on .Let's see what the Federal Libs. ask for amendments.

    And since NFL has these great revenues now, what are u WILLING TO GIVE UP!
  356. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    If you lefties insist on this course of action and the West decides not to separate under a coalition government (highly unlikely) would you consider transferring all the constitutional rights back to the provinces where they belong?? You know the ones that the French Liberals stole from Canadians.

    Heath
    Education
    Immigration
    Environment
    Natural resources
    Taxation

    ???

    .
  357. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Winston Smith, Martin was spending like a drunken sailor too. Dion was promising new taxes. While I'm upset at the cowardly incompetence of Harper, we're about to watch the Liberals demand more useless spending in an effort to show that their not rolling over.

    Well, at least we're not as screwed as the Americans.
  358. Systemic Risk from Canada writes: 'Tory times are tough times' Really? Since you bring up Ontario the Period from 1995 to 2003 was one of record growth peaking at over 5% in 1999. A million jobs were created. Since 2003 however the ON economy has barely managed to grow at more than 2% and McGuinty has increased spending by more than 50%. Doesn't quite fit with the above thesis.
  359. Mathew Gibson from Ucluelet, Canada writes: All these comments from the Canadians who live in Alberta about how they are funding the rest of the country with their oil. Theirs by the accident of political boundaries.

    Most of the capital for the projects comes from outside of Alberta. Most of the people working there are from outside of Alberta. Most of the people buying the stuff are from outside of Alberta. And most of the people in Alberta don't actually work in the oil industry, they just skim the profits and complain that the rest of the country wants to do the same.

    Socialists are just the people who want in. Capitalists are the ones who are already in.
  360. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Dan xxxxxx, heres a good one:

    1. No province who receives equalization payment shall run a provincial deficit.

    .
  361. L P from Canada writes:
    The budget does have 2 positive items. The $4 billion dollars spending in infrastructure and the job retraining program. These will help with job creation.
  362. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Skimming over these posts, I can only laugh. Some of the smartest people in their field admit that dealing with this worldwide economic/liquidity crisis is incredibly complex and anything but an exact science. Yet on these boards hundreds of posters can rail that they have the answer and can describe it in a sentence or two. There are some things we know. As a predominantly exporting economy, we will recover when our importing customers can buy our stuff. Until then we can only try to minimize the pain and to build infrastructure to improve future productivity. This budget attempts to do that. I'm sure that some of it will help. To a couple of posters who correctly say it won't help them much. One guy said he was on WCB payments. One question...just how did this recession hurt your finances? This budget was in response to the effects of a recession. It just can't put money in every single citizens pocket!! Some posters say that the tax reductions will only get saved or to pay down debt. I say, some will spend it some won't. Those that don't spend it now will spend it later, so what! Finally, almost all of the discussion of government borrowing is out of context. Our National Debt was at 22% of GDP. Smallest of all the G7 nations. Raising it to 24% or even 26% is just not that big of a deal.
  363. D JL from Canada writes: Natasha,.......Excellent!!!!
  364. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mathew, don’t presume that you know anything about Alberta, because obviously you don&8217;t.

    .
  365. Mathew Gibson from Ucluelet, Canada writes:

    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    If you lefties insist on this course of action and the West decides not to separate under a coalition government (highly unlikely) would you consider transferring all the constitutional rights back to the provinces where they belong?? You know the ones that the French Liberals stole from Canadians.

    Heath
    Education
    Immigration
    Environment
    Natural resources
    Taxation

    Provinces running Immigration? Hey, how about National Defence and Foreign Policy too! Better yet, give it to the municipalities, that way ordinary Canadians will have a much greater say in how things are done. We could set up a Ucluelet Embassy in New York!
  366. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Winston Smith, Martin was spending like a drunken sailor too. Dion was promising new taxes. While I'm upset at the cowardly incompetence of Harper.

    Jack, as a Western Conservative im upset at Harper as well. I think its time that another Reform party is created.

    .
  367. Western Bear from Canada writes: Mr. Gibson: I agree with you whole heartedly. Alberta is very very GOOD for All of Canada. The rest of your statement, not so much. We in BC, will shortly find ourselves in a similar position as Alberta/NL. It will have been a good lesson we've learned, from their going first. Google 'Canadian Equalization Payments-via Province'. You may be surprised.
  368. L P from Canada writes:
    Cutting of taxes is not an effective and direct method of increasing GDP in the long run so should not be concentrated in the budget.
  369. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mathew,

    National Defence and Foreign Relations are the only Jurisdiction the Federal Government has under the Canadian Constitution, the others belong to the provinces.

    Not very many Canadians know that that’s why they are so ignorant.

    .
  370. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: Has the red whine got to you as well?
  371. diane marie from Canada writes: Systemic Risk:-- I don't really care what they are doing south of the border. They have a culture that is hostile toward government, regulation, and taxation. Look where it's taken them? I see no reason why people having pitifully low incomes pay tax, but I also don't see why the very well-off need GST cuts on car purchases or to subsidize child-rearing, even as they complain about supporting the public schools that they don't send their own children to because they don't like the quality. The average household in Canada spends $300/year on gambling/lotteries but would complain if asked to fund better education and health care.
  372. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Toast And coffee, these brilliant economists sailed the U.S. right into the housing bubble. They couldn't have screwed up the economy more if they had actually done it on purpose. They didn't merely do everything wrong, they did everything spectacularly wrong.

    Meanwhile, several economists and business leaders very accurately predicted the fallout. And they are now predicting the fallout from this extravangza.

    However, the same very smart clowns are still running the circus. You would have us believe that now, finally, they know what they're doing. Well, perhaps they did learn their lesson. However, you'll have to pardon us for not having much confidence in them.
  373. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Toast and Coffee says: posters can rail that they have the answer and can describe it in a sentence or two.

    Others say reduced taxation is no good.

    Toast, yes its that simple. Alberta was in the same situation and what turned the province around and shot it clear to prosperity was massive tax cuts and massive spending cuts.

    Its fact. It worked. They only solution is one that is proven to work and that’s the way to do it.

    .
  374. Mathew Gibson from Ucluelet, Canada writes: I work.

    I pay taxes.

    I raise a family.

    I live in the west (about as west as you can get!).

    I support equalization, bilingualism, katimavik, treaties and anything else that builds bridges and draws the people of this vast country together.

    For surely we will all hang alone ...
  375. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mathew says: Provinces running Immigration?

    Yes Mathew, Immigration is provincial jurisdiction. The only province that exercises its constitutional rights in this matter is Quebec.

    .
  376. Just In from Canada writes: Mathew Gibson from Ucluelet, Canada writes: I work.

    I pay taxes.

    I raise a family.

    I live in the west (about as west as you can get!).

    I support equalization, bilingualism, katimavik, treaties and anything else that builds bridges and draws the people of this vast country together.

    For surely we will all hang alone ...

    ----------

    hear hear
  377. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Jack....by no means do I want to diminish mistakes made. The deregulation of the mortgage lending and ABCP business was almost totally responsible for this mess. I could even live with a few guilty folks going to the chair. I was merely pointing out that we are now dealing with a very complex animal and it is highly unlikely that a G&M poster will have a credible solution. It seems that quite a few think they do.
  378. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov, I don't think most Albertans want to try that particular Reform Party experiment again. And I'm not sure that giving the provinces significantly more powers would change anything either.

    Stelmach overspent so badly that we're actually going into deficit, including pledging $2 billion to CCS. That would be like Harper promising $20 billion, an insanely high number considering the risk that the technology may not even work out.

    This stupid panic is happening across the western hemisphere. The Keynsians have started a stampede and we're all going over the cliff and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
  379. diane marie from Canada writes: Mathew Gibson:-- It takes self-confidence to feel that way. Western separatism (not that there is much of it) is a pathetic show of insecurity and parochialism.
  380. Mathew Gibson from Ucluelet, Canada writes: diane marie from Canada writes: Mathew Gibson:-- It takes self-confidence to feel that way. Western separatism (not that there is much of it) is a pathetic show of insecurity and parochialism.

    Kind regards. :)
  381. Just In from Canada writes: I think the personal tax breaks are ill conceived, if not outright vote buying. I do not believe it will have an effect of stimulating consumer spending at a time when no one knows how long the recession will last. So the tax savings will at best be hoarded. This is similar to the experience with the Bush stimulus checks last year. It is especially worrisome that the tax breaks become a permanent drain on the treasury when federal deficits and debt are increasing. It would make sense to have a temporary personal tax break when every one knows the recession will likely end, in order to accelerate an expected recovery. At a time when financial resources are so tight, it is a bad idea to throw $3 billions out with very questionable stimulus outcome.
  382. L P from Canada writes:
    The Home Renovation Tax Credit is a bit biased. What if people who don't own a house, do they qualify for a 'rental assistance credit'?
  383. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Recent comments indicate we should be somewhat immune from global economic meltdown. Why? Trade makes up 65% of our GDP.

    In the past, when U.S. caught a cold, we got pneumonia. Now that U.S, W. Europe, Russia, and most of Asia has caught pneumonia, ...?
  384. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack Sprat, Its getting late – going to bed &8211; I would love to discuss the benefits of CCS with you as I helped develop the technology.

    Stelmach did the right thing supporting CCS and the real disappointment in today&8217;s budget is that Harper didn&8217;t match that 2 billion.

    .
  385. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Haven't you heard, we are all Keynesians now.
  386. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Toast And coffee, I agree that its a complex animal. I've listened to many experts debate it and its pretty obvious I've picked a side.

    The Keynsians in the U.S. believe they can borrow and print trillions and pump it into the economy. They believe that this won't cause inflation because no one is spending it. When people do start to spend it, they believe they have the levers to suck the liquidity out of the market before hyper-inflation occurs.

    I understand their view. They studied the very long Japanese recession and feel that the American consumer needs to be forced to spend at all costs. However, none of this addresses the fundemental problems of the U.S. economy. In fact, it exacerbates it.

    I just think its a terrible risk.

    However, Canada is just trying to weather the storm. We can't pull us out of recession through stimulus spending. If we want to take advantage of the recession to spend, it should be on long term economic investments. Instead we get hockey arenas.
  387. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Just in......consider this. Most Canadians are still working and are not at all concerned with job security. They will take home more money each payday, interest on their debt is cheaper and there are incentives to buy/renovate or whatever everywhere you look. Don't you think at least a good portion might spend some money?
  388. even steven from Wayout West, Canada writes: Mr. Ignatieff is going to try to set a new standard and record... The first Prime Minister who never had to win the leadership of his party at a convention as well as becoming the Prime Minister who didn't have to get there via election.... out doing John Turner and Kim Campbell in one big swoop.... He will defeat the budget, and get the GG to let the coalition and him rule the country for 2 years without ever having to face the electorate... and after two years the electorate will have forgotten how he got there and elect him because he is the then leader of the natural ruling party of Canada....
    it is so sad that my country is going this way ....:-(

    next stop Senator Jack Layton, Senator Gilles Duceppe, Senator Elizabeth May, Senator Bob Rae, Senator McCallum, Senator Karen Redman, Senator Paul Martin, Senator Jean C... et al....

    sigh....

    .
  389. L P from Canada writes:
    One question about the CCS. Does the CCS system work as of today or is that 2 billion dollars just a waste of taxpayers' money?
  390. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Jack... I'm mainly with you on your comments. My take on the US is that they are counting on some significant inflation and the subsequent devaluation of their currency to allow them to pay their debt. I may not like a lot of what I see happening. I have decided not to bang my head in the fridge door about it.
  391. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: J S from Canada writes: I'm actually surprised the budget speech didn't contain new legislation eliminating confidence motions...



    They actually did try it..remeber trying to end the $1.95/vote? Crush the opposition... no reason for nonconfidence vote. Just autocratic rule.
  392. Just In from Canada writes: Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Just in......consider this. Most Canadians are still working and are not at all concerned with job security. They will take home more money each payday, interest on their debt is cheaper and there are incentives to buy/renovate or whatever everywhere you look. Don't you think at least a good portion might spend some money?

    ------------

    Those who spend will spend regardless of tax breaks. So it is a very expensive way of attempting to stimulate. Besides, it won't improve Canada's productivity and competitiveness. People also know the tax breaks did not come from a surplus, but from a deficit, and therefore will actually be more guarded in their outlook. What will drive consumer spending is news of job creation, even for those who have no fear of job loss and are fully employed. Another driver of consumer spending would be rising asset prices, both housing and stock portfolios. Finally the global economic news will affect Canadian consumer spending. In short, the tax breaks have very little or is an inefficient way of driving consumer spending.
  393. Western Bear from Canada writes: Mr. EVEN: Will not happen. Those three parties would last all of 3-6 months. Lib & NDP maybe, but Lib/NDP & BLOC. The Canadian people would NOT forget, EVER.
  394. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: L P, no it doesn't work. That $2 billion isn't to implement CCS but to try to make it work.
  395. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L.P.:CCS works today, actually for 15 years now in Weyburn Saskatchewan by Encana corp. Proven technology. Also CCS projects are operating currently in Alberta.

    .
  396. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: OH my god!

    Ignatieff wants to take the worst budget in Canadian history, and make it EVEN WORSE!!!

    :( This is too depressing for words.
  397. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Just in.............very many economists think otherwise. Since I have not heard you reference your credentials, I will just have to assume they are more likely right.
  398. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Toast And coffee, what? You don't find it fun to bang your head against the fridge? I personally enjoy a good rant!
  399. Western Bear from Canada writes: Bulk 'dry-good' shipments to China, are increasing. The last report I saw, (from them mind you) said their stimulus was beginning to take hold? A little more demand for copper, oil, gold, steel, etc., and we begin, the climb out..
  400. L P from Canada writes:
    But I heard they have started using that money to develop new technologies and these companies involved found new technologies that work.
  401. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack,

    Don’t tell the guy lies, he was asking a serious question.

    CCS is also running off shore Norway (largest CCS project on earth) using manufactured CO2. Also in Texas with natural CO2.

    You people need to get out more &8211; seriously.

    .
  402. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: No province that receives equalisation payments shall run a provincial deficit.

    Natasha; did I strike a raw nerve? What about your provincial jurisdiction? Wouldn't that sort of impinge on the rights of the province?
  403. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: Actually I am anti government and anti religion I believe every province should be separate with no central government.

    I am compassionate and caring and I did not want you to be the only stupid person on here.
  404. Just In from Canada writes: Toast And coffee from Canada writes: Just in.............very many economists think otherwise. Since I have not heard you reference your credentials, I will just have to assume they are more likely right.

    ----------

    I am not an economist. Just use common sense and watch what happened with similar attempts in the U.S.

    Who is the economist that advised Flaherty to put this tax break into the budget? Is this the same guy from the University of Calgary on Flaherty's council of advisers? If so, we all know he would be the same school (Chicago) that got the U.S. into so much trouble - the dogma that tax breaks are good.

    Ask yourself this question. Would you spend just because of a tax break?

    The U.S. has an advantage of the U.S. dollar being reserve currency. They can inflate themselves out of trouble. We can't.

    I can be convinced. So far, you haven't posted an argument why the tax breaks will stimulate consumer spending.
  405. L P from Canada writes:
    Thanks for the CCS info!
  406. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha, I'm not lying. Yes, there are small scale CCS projects. However, leak rates of even 1% a year would waste all that money. From what I've read, many scientists seriously doubt the viability of CCS.
  407. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Pete Sake from Vancouver, Canada writes: i have to laugh at verns earlier statement about 100 mil turning into 2 bil.
    Hey Vern...is that like the gun registery going from 10 mil to 2 bil under the liberals??????



    So that meks it ok, right Pete. The other guy did it so why can't our guy? Real straight thinking...NOT!!
  408. siren call from Canada writes: Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Stimulus? No thanks. I'm burying my money in the backyard to pay for all this garbage when the bill comes due in a few years.
    ........................

    Well, I guess you could to that.

    Or you could put the money into a Tax free Savings Account.

    How much 'stimulus' does the middle, upper, or 'Conservative' class in general need?

    The TFSA is a gift to the rich. Let someone else receive some support for all our sakes.
  409. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: You know there is program spending, and there is capital spending, and then there is the increase in program spending that comes about as a result of capital spending.

    Deficits on program spending inevitably occur when there is an economic downturn, partly due to lower government revenues and partly due to increased social spending. Any attempt to eliminate the deficit in tough times just makes the problem worse.

    Conversely, during boom times, governments should always run surpluses on program spending, and should avoid the temptation of cutting taxes or increasing spending just because they can easily do so (either bribing voters or rewarding their buddies).

    Capital spending by Governments should be deliberately counter-cyclical, with governments scaling back on their long-term capital spending during boom times, and picking it up again during downturns.

    However, we shouldn't create new capital spending programs just because of the need for economic stimulus in a downturn.
  410. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Conservatives Lie from Canada writes: Conservatives are NOT good economic managers. Tory times are tough times.

    Let's take a trip back in time to the early 1980's. PET is PM and the country is dealing with double digit unemployment, double digit inflation and interest rates over 20%. Massive deficits and debt. Liberal times are tough times.
  411. censured ... from Canada writes: all inane commentary aside...Canada's ability to avoid recessions...today or yesteryear...is nil. We are a small leaf in a big river and are along for the ride. The fun part about all this is watching Harper get bullied for a change. His toupee is starting to look all disheveled.
  412. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Here is a good article article on CCS. Look at the time frames they're talking about.

    http://www.science.org.au/nova/newscientist/108ns_007.htm
  413. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack,

    All CCS wells have pressure monitors to detect leaks and safety measures in place if they do. None have leaked in 15 years in the test pilot wells and there is no reason why they would leak.

    The formations are selected upon their sequestration capability and stability. The oil and gas that were previously in those wells didn’t leak for thousands of years before removal.

    If these formations can hold pressure for thousands of years why do you think they would leak now?

    .
  414. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Here is a good article article on CCS. Look at the time frames they're talking about.



    Jack don't speak fact to Natasha, she's bound and determined to take her western friends to independence, whether they want it or not. Anything else is just trivialities.
  415. Joe Wallach from Russell, Ontario, Canada writes: Now does this mean another election or a coalition government? Both are legal, but do we need either now?
  416. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha, you're obviously better versed than I am on CCS. I have no first hand knowledge and have to rely on what I read from various sources:

    The IPCC estimates that CO2 retention “in appropriately selected and managed geological reservoirs is very likely to exceed 99% over 100 years and is likely to exceed 99% over 1,000 years” (2005, p. 14). In areas of active drilling such as the WCSB, there is concern that multiple drill holes have, over time, created weaknesses in the cap rock that could result in leaks of stored CO2. As pointed out by Griffiths et al. “mechanical flaws in wells and abandoned wells have been the most common cause of leaks in underground gas storage facilities” (2005, p. 51). Because CO2 is corrosive, there is concern that leakages could occur through concrete well heads in storage sites in abandoned oil wells or in EOR applications. Since large scale injection of CO2 is a relatively unproven activity, pressure caused by such a process poses the risk of triggering small seismic events (IPCC, 2005).

    http://www.jotmi.org/index.php/GT/article/view/cas15/198
  417. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov,

    I agree, CCS is a slam dunk where there is a depleted gas reservoir.

    When an aquifer is chosen for permanent storage, a lot of additional geological studies and testing need to be done to ensure there is a permanent seal, and that the gas doesn't migrate uncontrollably through the aquifer.

    In any event, the amount of $$ provided to promote CCS in this budget is not very significant in view of the current and near-term economic and environmental problems we are facing.
  418. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack Sprat,

    That article you linked is as outdated as you are.

    OPTI-Nexen in the oil sands is carbon capture ready – just waiting for regulation certainty before installing the equipment.

    EPCOR, and TransAlta are just going through environmental regulation for cites in Edmonton and Calgary. Sherritt International is going ahead east of Edmonton once its gets buy the environmental hurdles. Many biomass projects are planned. The list goes on and on. Shell, GE, Siemens etc. Once liquidity in the markets free up these projects are going to be &8220;shovel ready&8221; lol.

    .
  419. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Moderator, where is my first comment from tonite? I know it was long but it was within the 2,000 character limit.

    If you didn't like a part of my comment, send it back and I will try to edit it and resubmit.
  420. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha, I've never been in date. As I said, I only know what I read on the subject. Those articles are 2008, although they quote sources a few years older. Its possible they have it wrong or things have seriously lept forward recently.

    Do you have any journal articles you could point me towards? I'm not talking about planned project, I would like to read about research completed that clearly points to the immediate viability of CCS. I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious.
  421. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Joe Wallach,

    Hi, I don't think either is likely. But now the horse-trading starts between Libs and Cons.
  422. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack,

    you’re quoting seismic events. Oooh I&8217;m scared. Scared of your fear mongering.

    Get real, Industry would not spend thousands of millions of dollars and create a leaky reservoir that they would get sued and have to pay liability on.

    Those wells are going to be tighter than a socialist at a Hetro party.

    .
  423. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Greg Wood,

    Finally some mature discussion. Earlier in this blog stated that the federal government should have matched Albertas 2 billion in todays budget.

    .
  424. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Jack,

    Two very good sources are ICO2N Network (easily googled) and the Canadian Carbon and Sequestration road map (PDF) from the government of Canada.

    .
  425. Just In from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Greg Wood,

    Finally some mature discussion. Earlier in this blog stated that the federal government should have matched Albertas 2 billion in todays budget.

    ----------

    The CCS vested interests are asking for Carbon Handouts from Canadian tax payers when tar sands oil are sold to Americans. This is unacceptable.

    theglobeandmail.com
  426. diane marie from Canada writes: Industry wouldn't do ANYTHING that might result in legal liabilities. Not them. That's why only 0.2% of the tar sands disruption has been reclaimed according to the Alberta government. So worthy of trust. Why would anyone question their good intentions?
  427. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Natasha, I never said CCS could never work. Both those articles I posted said that everyone is hopeful that it will work. And the second article said Canada was well suited to CCS.

    However, I have yet to read anything from anyone that says that its good to go. If you would like to point me towards such an article, though, I would be very happy to read it.
  428. siren call from Canada writes: Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes:
    In any event, the amount of $$ provided to promote CCS in this budget is not very significant in view of the current and near-term economic and environmental problems we are facing.
    ...........................

    Um. You're all good capitalists, right?

    Invisible hand and all?

    So why should the taxpayer pay for the cost of the oil companies doing business -- in this case; clean up. Carbon and climate change be darned.

  429. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Jack, I posted 2 sources above, also web search Weyburn Saskatchewan Encana sequestration project. It’s the world class showcase project, the one that all others are modeled after.

    .
  430. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Night all, Hard Core NeoCON and damn proud of it from Alberta signing off.

    .
  431. Just In from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Night all, Hard Core NeoCON and damn proud of it from Alberta signing off.

    -------

    That is Hard Core neocon Welfare Bum Highway Bandit showing off unregistered guns.

    theglobeandmail.com
  432. mynalee johnstone from Canada writes: There are still too many people too much wealthier than other Canadians.
    There are seniors getting OAS who don't need it.
    There are Senators who are fat enough, that they don't need a fat salary plus a fat expense account.
    Families budget by cutting expenses. Cut expense accounts for all governmental spending. These employees do not need free food, free hotels, free airfare,car(s) and other items.
    Most of us workers don't even get a bus pass.
    Increase taxes for well to do Canadians. This way we get more equitable wages.
    Increase the GST.
    Tax polluters.This includes your daily driving.
    With a fine tooth comb, cut out all unnecessary spending. Save the cream and butter for special occasions.
    No tax breaks for corporations.No bonuses and don't give them money if they pad their expense accounts and refuse to cut CEO salaries.They also overspend on ADVERTISING.
  433. Misery No one from Toronto, Canada writes: Pot belly Harper n his gang have to be removed so the country can have a fresh start. The Tories have lied over n over it's time to remove them and go to a coalition. Harper and his gang have no idea how to get us out of this mess which his government helped to create.

    What good is a tax break to a senior who receives $900.00 a month to live on?
  434. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Thanks, Natasha. One of the best article I've read on CCS yet was linked from that site. Its not as glowing about CCS as you are but it provides far more detailed information.

    http://web.mit.edu/coal/TheFutureof_Coal.pdf

    It acknowledges the leakage problem but explains why the risk is probably low. Here was an interesting passage, though. I haven't heard about anything like this recommendation happening in Alberta. Has anyone else?

    'Moreover, CO2 storage is intended to be permanent.
    There is a possibility of leakage (especially
    from an injection failure) into ground
    water or, more improbably, a catastrophic leak
    that potentially might injure people, as noted
    in Chapter 4. Commercial firms do not have
    the longevity or capacity to warrant the integrity
    of the storage system for the required periods
    of time. Therefore an insurance system
    is needed (ultimately backed by a government
    guarantee) that covers liability after some period
    of time and for catastrophic events. The
    terms and structure of this liability are important
    parts of the needed regulatory framework.'
  435. Mr X from Canada writes: http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27012009/2/biz-finance-grim-reality-recession-struck-budget-builders-december.html
  436. Just In from Canada writes: Mr X from Canada writes: http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27012009/2/biz-finance-grim-reality-recession-struck-budget-builders-december.html

    ---------

    Reads like a Conservative Apologist.

    Harper is all campaign and no governance.

    That is why we still hear all these radio ads funded by the party.

    That is why the Budget is the Mother of All Pork Barrels.
  437. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    It's a Liberal budget.

    It's going to get even more Liberal with the amendments.

    The Liberals haves won.
    I, a Conservative, concede.

    The irony?

    The Conservatives will win a majority next kick at the cat, because, as of today, they have become Progressive Conservatives.

    Ignatieff has outwitted himself.
    Such is the power of intellect.
    As goes Harvard...
  438. Just In from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    It's a Liberal budget.

    It's going to get even more Liberal with the amendments.

    The Liberals haves won.
    I, a Conservative, concede.

    The irony?

    The Conservatives will win a majority next kick at the cat, because, as of today, they have become Progressive Conservatives.

    Ignatieff has outwitted himself.
    Such is the power of intellect.
    As goes Harvard...

    ------------

    Another Conservative Apologist.

    Buying votes knowing there will be a fallout, then blaming it on the opposition 'you made me do it', just like a whiny kid.
  439. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    Iggy doesn't have to vote for the budget, but if he doesn't he stands to lose the election ... again ... and end up with less seats than Layton.
  440. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Just In from Canada...

    Take a hike.

    The amendments the LPC will demand are going to cost us even more.

    Pigs.
  441. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    I will go out on a bit of a limb and suggest Ignatieff will support the Budget with significant amendments, particularly to EI. The amendments will be significant enough to show he has not blinked and supports the Budget from a position of strength.

    The Cons will have to support it.

    Ignatieff will be able to cloak himself in the Canadian flag doing what's best for the country.

    Harper has emasculated himself and Iggy will keep the wounded Boor in power long enough to make him wear fully the whole deficit and then strike when the opportunity arises.

    Ignatieff might even be able to force an extension on Energy Trusts and then fix the whole Trust mess in a year or so when disillusioned Conservatives fall upon the self wounded Dictator and while their unity fractures, he brings down the Govt.

    Before all is said and done I see the honourific Rt Hon coming before his name - Ignatieff is bound for 24.

    Ignatieff is capable of winning it all.

    Fat-Boy has met his better.

    .
  442. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    And on Jan.27/2009, the New Progressive Conservative Party was born.

    Partly in response in to the Coalition Party (all pigs welcome) and partly in response to desperation.
    There, apparently, being a lot of pigs.

    And so, it came to pass...

    The New Progressive Conservative Party ruled for 100 years.
    And all in the land were happy.
  443. John Brown from Maritimes, Canada writes: I wrote in an earlier post that Ignatieff would likely request some amendments to this proposal and I still believe he will. What will be interesting to watch is whether this government will go along with any proposals and make the requested changes or refuse and let the budget be voted down. Should the latter occur then it is up to Mr. Harper to step aside and pass the mantle of command to somebody more suitable to the role of leading this party, he his done in the eyes of most Canadians; this evident after the poor showing of the October election. Yes he did win more seats in parliament this time out but that is only because there were far fewer voters at the polling time; 3 successive failures to secure a majority should be a good indicator he is not the man to be PM. As for Ignatieff, he needs to be cautious in his amendment proposals and not force this government any farther into a corner, give them wiggle room as they have tried hard.
  444. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    If Iggy forces an extension on Energy Trusts, which won't be easy, he will be signalling that he is sincerely looking for a rapprochement with Alberta and buy time for the industry. I think Tubby would yield on it because I think he is also afraid of an election and more so a coalition.

    If Iggy forces those amendments the Bloc and NDP would like to see he will effectively have brought in the Coalition without the baggage of actually running a coalition govt.

    I mean really, who in their right mind would want to sit in Cabinet with that used car sales man Plastic Jack. Iggy would go out of his mind listening to him babble on and trying to monopolise the conversations. Iggy might even have to strangle him ; )

    No, far better Iggy runs a defacto coalition and let King Tubby sit on his rotting throne as an emasculated puppet - waiting for Iggy to smile as Tubby's own people bring in the executioner.

    Don't forget Ignatieff is an expert on The Prince, he wrote a fabulous review in the Globe last year on Machiavelli.

    This is going to be fun


    .
  445. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    J Birch from Hamilton, eloquently, 'Fat-Boy has met his better.'
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would submit, Mr. Birch, that Ignatieff has just handed the New Progressive Conservative party a majority.

    The game, she is over.
  446. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    There goes the hidden agenda.
    It's dead.

    Gawd love a coalition.
  447. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Hmmmmm. The Government has basically brought in a Liberal budget, maybe not gone quite as far as they'd like (ie. spent as much as they'd like) and given tax breaks they don't like. All in all though, it's an acceptable Liberal, left of center budget. Joe and Jane average Canadian will find it acceptable, will be happy the Government is showing leadership. The Bloc doesn't like the budget....not enough for Qc, and they've lost confidence in Harper. OK. The Dippers don't like the budget.... doesn't spend enough, doesn't protect their union friends, and they've lost confidence in Harper. OK. The red tories don't like the budget, spends too much, puts the Country into a deficit position. Horrors! OK. This budget appears to be a budget for the times. Help for some, (work for a lot if the Provinces and Municipalities get off their duffs!) a decent amount of stimulous for the economy. Not surprising the extreme right and extreme left are pissed off. They're always PO'd....always have been, always will be.... that's why they just don't matter in the grand scheme of things. NOW, we wait to see just what kind of leader Iggy is. He basically got what he wanted, can't have everything, and should know it. The coalition nonsense is done. Iggy can wail, ask for more..... if the Cons are smart, they'll hold the line and say 'Nope'. Iggy will be left with 2 choices. Vote for the budget, and live to fight another day. Vote against the budget, go to the polls, and watch the Cons get a majority. I think he's smart enough to vote for this budget, but, who knows? He may be listening to Boob Rae! Personally, I hope he is stupid enough to vote it down. I'd like to see another election. Canadians in general will be so PO'd they'll give the Cons a majority..... and we need one.....after the antics in Question period today, it's obvious nothing's changed!
  448. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    And on Jan.27/2009, the New Progressive Conservative Party was born.

    Partly in response in to the Coalition Party (all pigs welcome) and partly in response to desperation.
    There, apparently, being a lot of pigs.

    And so, it came to pass...

    The New Progressive Conservative Party ruled for 100 years.
    And all in the land were happy.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And then Mike awoke from his slumber to smell frying bacon and to realize he'd been smoking in bed.

    As the flames lapped up the sides of the Sharpe Residence he sat in the nearest snow bank to cool his posterior and came to realize it was only a dream.

    And that Prime Minister Ignatieff was coming to town in the morning to celebrate his 3rd Majority Govt election.

    Pleasant dreams Mike.

    .
  449. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    Layton claimed to be the author of the budget, as does Iggy, Duceppe is p!ssed, he says it is a nothing budget. Can't these guys get along.
    I think Iggy wants a list of changes made so that if the budget fails he can say I told you so! So crafty.
  450. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: J Birch..... cute bedtime story! :-) Imagination's a wonderful thing! :-)
  451. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Horses can't eat straw.

    But we know what passes out the other end ....

    Vote for Iggy, not the Piggy

    .
  452. T J from Canada writes: The budget isn't visionary and it seems like its all about political survival for the Conservatives.
  453. Somethingessential LostinBC from Canada writes: I find myself sitting here laughing at the irony of all this. I am hoping that the Liberals will act like conservatives and bring down a liberal budget tabled by Conservatives. So if the Liberals become conservative and the Conservatives become liberal, what does Jack become? Obsolete? And what about Gillies? He seems to be the most open and honest politician in this gong show. I might not like what he wants, but at least I know what it is.
  454. Spin Assassin from Ville du Quebec, Canada writes: Yuck. I just realized that I can't stand most of you. Did you ever wonder that if you stepped outside the comfy little dream worlds you live in that your lives might be better?

    Nope. No-way. World shattering thoughts are not welcome.

    I'm starting to think that you deserve to pay taxes. You are barely more intelligent than livestock anyway. Stop talking and get your heads back in the trough. Its going to be overflowing shortly.
  455. Western Bear from Canada writes: Only in Canada, ya say, Eh!
  456. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The budget is not only visionary it will be Iggys legacy ... lets get on with an election. Layton looks very hostile in recent pictures .. his charm and wit gone, nothing has been leaking from his party lately which is very unusual ... I wish Iggy would not dither .. he is so undecided, uncertain of his backing?? he reminds me of Martin but those eyes ... so calculating and sneaky .. on second thought he reminds me of a Charlie Chaplin villian from the old black and white speakies.
  457. Jack O'Wight from Canada writes:

    ELECTION TIME!

    Dump Layton, Duceppe, and Ignatieff!

    Vote Anything But COALITION - vote ABC!
  458. Murray Kaufman from Toronto, writes: Geez speaking about working inside the box... We need to make sure the plan addresses a economy to compete in the future. Problem Exports are reducing and when the US sneezes we catch the cold If any of the politicians watched 60 minutes they would know that the US are coming up to a huge problem in 2010 to 2012, our money will run out late 2010 when the mortgage problem will rear it's ugly head once again. We need to market our products and services to other countries beyond the US. Spending money internally supports the construction worker for a 2 year period and then what .. we sit out there holding the bill when all of a sudden the second US wave hits us. Canada is in trouble because of lack of economic foresight by our Govt. Canada needs to promote externally. We need to stop supporting a cheap money economy that simply disrespects financial integrity. This 0 or 5% down nonsense has inflated homes values with owners having no apprehension to walk with an insignificant personal investment of cheap money. Now watch the housing market drop a significant amount due to inappropriate responsible regulations. Need to invest in building and training for Canadians to be active participants in the global market. Need to compete with these third world behemoths before we become fourth world due to our inability to compete. We will pay the piper big time unless we plan for our future, our manufacturing has significantly diminished and our services are next.. don't believe me call support for major companies and find that you are talking to a cheap labour country for support.. but don't think it stops there people... as long as the service costs are that much cheaper the flow will continue. We need to think outside of the box... and be ready just in case Obama closes his borders for free trade. Hey we have tonnes of cash profit in our economy without anyone paying tax .. reclaim that tax and fine those
  459. Patricia C. from Toronto, Canada writes: Is Iggy really going to puff his chest now? What the hell has happened to the Liberal party? The best scenario would be to reject the budget, call and election, Harper majority, then reconstruct a real homegrown Liberal Party that Canadians can embrace. This lineup has to go.
  460. david tarbuck from Ukraine writes: The tax break for renovations is good - tied aid to projects that creat work; ditto the stimulus to business loans tro firms that probably will make good (stimulating) use of the money but the rest of the budget is too little and/or misplaced.

    The unemployment increased benefits is too little and not adequately targeted to aid those who face catastrophy; Ie. over fifty and the (only?) job ever had for twenty years disapears?? For one who would gladly work if the opportunity can be found, five weeks extra is not good enough.
  461. Ckret SqwerL from Toronto, Canada writes: A budget that looks through rose coloured glasses....
    Pass the budget Iggy.
    You don't want to be wearing this sweater for the next little while.
    Let's see how Canadians feel after they have seen the CONs in action for a little while longer.
  462. old gristle from Canada writes: I believe that anything can still happen. The House can be prorouged once again, so some people should not be too beligerent. Be careful... Nice Mr. Harper. Nice hair Mr. Harper.
  463. Collin Pierce from Canada writes: Where is the vision for Canada in this massive spending budget? Is this not the time to set out some key priority areas for Canada, areas that Canada will be a global leader in? For example, with all the talk about the need to shift to renewable resources and practices from all parties, I find it astonishing that only $1.5B will be spend on these initiatives over the next FIVE YEARS. That is less than 0.01% of the money be spent. We are doomed to mediocracy as a country and as a people with leadership like this. I'm tired of 'Peace, Order, and Good Government.' Give me something I can believe in, give me something I can get excited about.
  464. Hogtown Joe from Toronto, Canada writes: david tarbuck from Ukraine writes:The unemployment increased benefits is too little and not adequately targeted to aid those who face catastrophy; Ie. over fifty and the (only?) job ever had for twenty years disapears??
    ____________

    Unfortunately, you're screwed. There isn't enough cash in the coffers to bail out the aging baby boomers who bought into the left's misguided ideology of perpetual inflation and security for life. Welcome to Canada, the new 3rd world.
  465. CJ Bryson from Canada writes: We do not need another economic development agency, on the federal tab. In the North of Ontario, we already have local economic development agencies and federally funded Community Futures organizations and FedNor - they know what projects are out there, the funds reuqired, thier own workforces and local economic dynamics. A new federal agency - huge waste of money and long run up to any action. They should send that money to the municipalities - they already know what to do with it.
  466. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: AND SO HE SHOULD ........Let me count the ways ..... most already have .... this poor excuse for a Reform/Alliance/Western Separatist Coalition government has been good at only a two things:

    A).......Spending money via fat juicy contracts and appointments and
    B) ..... Breaking promises via words of forked tongue double talk!
  467. Thomas Price from Whitefish, Canada writes: It is nothing short of incredible. The tax payer will be forced to shortfall on bills owing to the tune of 60 to 100 billion dollars, incur interest charges on this amount and this is referred to by the spinmongers as a break for taxpayers. Digging, digging, digging, we're gonna keep on digging deeper and deeper and it won't stop until the monetary system collapses at the hands of a trained economist no less. Accreditation rights should be removed from the university where he got his degree.
  468. Watercooler Pundit from Regina, Canada writes: Here is a tip for Canadians - DON'T SPEND. Save every penny. Let this broken system collapse.

    Capitalism = EPIC FAIL.
    Communism = EPIC FAIL.

    There has to be a better way and stripping wealth from a community and giving it to shareholders IS NOT IT.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197
  469. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: I am stunned that no one has commented from this budget about the conReforms putting ANOTHER $50 Billion into the Insured Mortgage Loan Program making a total bailout (guarantee of default loans) $125 BILLION !! MOst of this huge deficit is going to the banks, and toward paying off the huge already incurred conReform debt accumulated before stimulus. It was Harper that allowed the toxic mortgage schemes into Canada in 2006 and now the chickens are coming home to roost as people default on their mortgage loans due to the economic crisis and job losses. If my municipality wants to start a 'shovel' ready project, the Harper budget is essentially going to force 3 government layers of deficits to acheive this. A municipality will only be considered if they apply. This is not a stimulus package, the Federal government needs to take the lead on program implementation and economy stimulation. Harper has proven over and over that he cannot be trusted, that he lies, and it's becoming more apparent even to his base, that he is no leader, clearly only a reform Alberta seperatist spineless bully. This proposed budget is nothing more than a shell game - trying to strategically woo areas of Canada for future voter support and paying out to banks. The Harper hasbeens need to be removed ...whether it be today, or on next election. You can be sure with Harper support spiraling, he will not break any more election date promises, when of course it's not to his advantage.
  470. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: The Centrist from Canada. Valid point about seperating and loving your country, my rant was really directed at the Conservatives and the Prime Minister who has sold out his core support and beliefs to maintain power. I find it unpalatable. My little piece is an attempt at a humourous rant directed at a few friends of mine in Alberta and myself for voting Conservative thinking that they were uhhh conservative. Obviously I don't really think that the Conservative party was infiltrated by communist agents from Belarus, just that power has corrupted what the party originally stood for. As to whether Alberta should seperate, well I live in Toronto, and I feel pretty helpless today. We know who to vote for on the left, but who can we vote for if we believe in small government, less taxation and less government waste/programs? There is simply no option in this country at the moment, that is clear, and that is the point of my little rant. ---------------------- Martyn: I think it is obvious of the two evils, which is the lesser evil and least dangerous. Thank goodness some Canadians who voted for harper thinking they were voting 'true conservative' party are now waking up to realize they have beebn deceived and were actually supporting the ideologies of the conReform Alliance Party who have a hidden agenda and are Alberta separatists disguised at 'Conservatives'.
  471. bob london from Canada writes: OK lets go to election. Then I can know to move to a democratic country like Mexico or stay in this socialist land with hope of improving.
  472. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Is this time for our 'leaders' to jockey for power while the country sinks into the abyss of this economic quagmire?

    I guess politicians are merely living up to expectations--just being power hungry organisms without the greater good in mind!
  473. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: I am stunned ...............

    Yepper, you sure are one stunned dude if you actually believe the garbage you just posted! :-)
  474. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    As a hard core Conservative and Westerner, I am disappointed in Harper and the party. Giving in to Eastern dippers, going into massive deficit is not the conservative way. Canada should cut spending on social services and lower taxes as a stimulus to the economy.

    This is one Westerner that is mad as hell at what Canada has turned into.

    -----------------------------------

    No, I think you are disappointed that your 'dear leader' Harper the ideological neo-theo conReformer Alberta separatist dupped & deceived all his sheeple followers.
    Harper can't be trusted by anyone that is oh so obvious.
  475. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: There are three key points that will not allow me to support this budget:

    1) Failure to restructure EI, leaving tens of thousands of unemployed workers ineligible for EI benefits. Extending the benefit period by five weeks is OK as far as it goes but the budget does not truly deal with the structural inequities in the system.

    2) Permanent tax cuts = permanent structural deficit. The government has hamstrung itself by reducing revenues to the point that it's la la land prediction of a return to surplus in five years is a fantasy that would leave Stephen King gasping.

    3) Much of the infrastructure spending will require provincial and municipal contributions. The provinces may be able to cover their nut, but many municipalities are already running on fumes. This may prevent much of this money flowing any time soon, much like the much ballyhooed, but in practice, unspent 33 billion infrastructure fund from previous budgets.
  476. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: 12years after P Martin and the Liberals cleaned up the 8 years of CONservative deficits under Mulroney, the Harper CONservatives have in 2 years returned us to irresponsible fiscal management of the Canadian economy ........

    Canadians suffer for the CRAP CONservatives do.
  477. Auroran Bear from Montreal, Canada writes: Still, Mr. Flaherty said his measures would create 189,000 jobs and keep the pledge Canada made to its international allies to spend at least 2 per cent of its economy on programs aimed at boosting demand.
    =================================================

    That's the problem with this bunch. The only pledge that matters is the one they should be making to us.
  478. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: During the last election, Harper announced he was going to expand EI coverage to self employed people .Why didn't he ? Well because he is dishonest at base, and only a fool would trust him.Like everything with Harper , this budget is a con job ,and while Haroer has the press on his side , the real mark is Ignatieff.
  479. Auroran Bear from Montreal, Canada writes: bob london from Canada writes: OK lets go to election. Then I can know to move to a democratic country like Mexico or stay in this socialist land with hope of improving
    ================================================

    Best of luck to you in that thriving democracy known as Mexico.
  480. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: OH my god!

    Ignatieff wants to take the worst budget in Canadian history, and make it EVEN WORSE!!!

    :( This is too depressing for words.

    -----------------------------------

    your leader harper sold you out ? You feel dupped and cheated ? Cat got your tongue ?
    Oh do try to express yourself .........'too depressing for words'...poor thing.
  481. Robert S from Toronto, Canada writes: Vote this budget down sound environmental policy is not investing in carbon sequestration. The aim of that policy is to continue to fuel the oil sands machine so we can feel good about are use of oil and the Conservatives can get their easy Alberta votes who really only care about home much cash a government will feed into their pockets. (very simple to be good at politics in Alberta worked for Ralph Klein for years). Really the US is planning in investing heavily in Renewable energy and when they don't want our dirty oil anymore we'll be left behind sequestering carbon and destroying our own nest. There's con environmentalism for you.
  482. First Name: Last Name: from Ellesmere Island, Canada writes: ' Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    The COns pushed every button on the control panel.

    They tossed all the pasta at the curtins hoping some might stick so they can make it through this first week back form the forced shutdown of our Parliament ........

    Will it stick ?? Likely yes. With a few amendments and some shouting.

    stevie is a libbie now boys. Get used to it '
    .
    Actually Vern, Stevie is no Liberal, Liberals under Chrietien and Martin were good economic stewards and Martin had a solid grasp of all things economic, unlike Harper and Flaherty combined.
    .

    .
  483. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    And on Jan.27/2009, the New Progressive Conservative Party was born.

    Partly in response in to the Coalition Party (all pigs welcome) and partly in response to desperation.
    There, apparently, being a lot of pigs.

    And so, it came to pass...

    The New Progressive Conservative Party ruled for 100 years.
    And all in the land were happy.
    ----------------------

    Don't take the brown acid, sharp..........the brown acid is CRAP.
  484. Wayne Walker from Canada writes: First question, if the Bloc feel that this Budget does not give Quebec enough money but are willing to kep the coalition in power, does that suggest they have a deal with the coalition? If this tactic works, does it not confirm to Quebec voters that they should always vote for the Bloc and try to ensure minority governments which will put Quebec interests ahead of national priorities?.....................Second question. Why do some believe that tax breaks directed to low income Canadians will not get spent? The savings rate for all Canadians is zero so why will that change? Do you believe that if you wanted to encourage increased savings you would give a tax break to low income families and hope they would put in a savings account?.................Last question. If you do not like a tax cut, would you propose a tax increase at this time so the government can spend the money more wisely? If you do not like increased spending on infrastructure, would you support a decrease and how would that affect the economy? If you believe that the home renovation tax credit will not help construction workers because no one has money, will it hurt to try it? If you believe that only the upper middle class will benefit, should we have a surtax on home renovations so they share more of the pain?...................The point is, when we resist change, are we saying that the status quo is the best and the government should do nothing?
  485. Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes:
    Honestly -- the LIEberals have no solution for this mess either (since it was not of Canada's creation).

    All of this is just political posturing.

    Of course the various species of sheep that append to this forum aren't helping by adding their chorus of 'baad''s.

    You people really need to get real lives -- stop depending on the government and start enjoying what you do have.
  486. Bob Dylan's Voice from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: There are three key points that will not allow me to support this budget:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Congratulations, I did not know you were a member of parliament.
  487. Mervin Hollingsworth from Saskatoon, Sk, Canada writes: Count Iggy better be careful with his demands. On one hand he is saying he concerned about structural deficits but on the other hand he is going to demand changes to the budget which I presume will cost taxpayers more money.
    He says that he is concerned that we will not be able to get out of deficit within 5 years but probably wants more spending.
    Its all a partisan act to ensure the government is not able to meet its goals and then they can say the Conservatives mismanaged the economy.
    Once again we are in a position where the people of Canada will have to go to an election because the opposition parties are throwing their weight around. If Iggy and the rest of the opposition idiots think the GG is going to give the coalition a chance to govern they are barking up the wrong tree.
  488. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes:

    'Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: I am stunned ...............

    'Yepper, you sure are one stunned dude if you actually believe the garbage you just posted! :-) '

    Yep! Believe and thou shalt be saved!

    Good luck, Friend!
  489. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Promising infrastructure money that doesn't flow, hiding it in Harpers mattress is a problem with this minority CONservative gov't...ie Building Canada Fund

    Money that doesn't flow .......Can't trust Stephen Harper
  490. Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: DJL writes N.L.has all these great revenues and asks what are you willing to give up.

    We are trying my friend to stay off equalization.However when the federal finance department agrees with the provincial finacce department that changes made to the 1985 Atlantic accord that will cut 1.5 billion from our revenues then ,I ask you would you be willing to give up anything when it is constantly being taken anway.We hare have struggled for years to get off equalization, with the rest of the country giving us grief because of it.No one ubderstands better the issues surrounding us but yet when we take a stand against perceived wronds we again are given grief.Sorry folks it is not something that we want to be doing yet when we get screwed without so much as a thank you and get hung out to dry someone has to speak up.Being a have province has cost us money which is fine with us believe me.We are happy to be able to go it alone.However when being forced to become have not again 'it is not' fine with us.
  491. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes:

    12years after P Martin and the Liberals cleaned up the 8 years of CONservative deficits under Mulroney, the Harper CONservatives have in 2 years returned us to irresponsible fiscal management of the Canadian economy ........

    -------------------------------------

    So tell us then bah bah blind sheep - what will a deficit from the coalition be?
  492. Brett Williams from Canada writes: So you only get a tax break on renovations of $10,000? That sucks.
  493. Francis Sawyer from Canada writes:
    I check these forums periodically and am astounded that the same people can post the same crap for months. Don't you people have lives?

    Arguing that your liar is better than their liar? I'm sad for you.

    The only thing that matters is whether this collective group of crooks and liars from all parties that we sent to Ottawa to represent us, can come up with something that actually benefits Canada.

    I'm not so sure this budget is good for us. Too much spending without enough bang for our dollars.

    That should concern all of you partisan simpletons.
  494. Doug MacGregor from Canada writes:
    Iggy wants Steve to crawl...
  495. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Hmmmmm.

    * Posted 28/01/09 at 3:57 AM EST
    ------------------

    Depends need changing again, Don ??????

    Or is the Coalition causing you to loose sleep ?????

    A strong majority coalition with progressive minded MP's working together for the majority of Canadians makes more sense than...

    A weak minority running a mis-informed, non-functioning gov't

    Can we really trust......Stephen Harper ???
  496. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Bob Dylan's Voice: Nope, not an MP. Just a concerned Canadian expressing my opinion. You got a problem with that?
  497. NL Patriot from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: DJL writes N.L.has all these great revenues and asks what are you willing to give up

    ----------

    DJL here is the problem. In the fine print of this budget Harper has again unilateraly changed the Atlantic Accord again be changing the equalization formula.

    WE are not looking for Equalization as currently we don't receive any, the problem is that these changes will take 1.5 Billion out of our economy over the next three years. That would be the equilivant of taking 22 Billion dollars out of the Ontario economy and about 14 Billion out of the Quebec economy.

    How many howls do you think you would hear out of McGinty or Charest if the Federal Government during a time of economic hardship decided to make these drastic cuts to their revenues?

    I know it is just NL so who cares. To put it into perspective, this 64 Billion dollar deficit cost around 2000 per Canadian. This subtle little change that Harper has made will cost us about 3000 per person in our province.

    Thanks Harper!
  498. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: 'Say what you like about the Tories: they don’t do things by halves. When they spend, they spend. When they go into debt, they do it $100-billion at a time. And when they decide to put an end to conservatism in Canada — as a philosophy, as a movement—they go out with a bang.'

    Andrew Coyne. Harper, who has happily had his primary goal to decimate the LPC, has instead caused the end of conservatism. In Andrew Coyne's estimation.
  499. Roger Cooper from Canada writes: It makes no sense to create debt to spend foolishly, but to invest in something that will pay back in the future. Debt is justified by its capacity to pay itself down.
  500. another canuck from Canada writes: I've been reading these G&M posts for a while now. The majority of the posts are petty, silly and of no value. It is quite a contrast to what you read in the New York Times posts. I think that reflects very badly on Canada. No wonder our country is in such a mess. To the G&M: you should see about changing the posting system to the type where we can vote which posts have value, allowing the better threads to rise to the top.
  501. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes:

    3) Much of the infrastructure spending will require provincial and municipal contributions. The provinces may be able to cover their nut, but many municipalities are already running on fumes. This may prevent much of this money flowing any time soon, much like the much ballyhooed, but in practice, unspent 33 billion infrastructure fund from previous budgets.
    ----------------------

    Did you watch Heather's(cbc) interview this am about the problems facing municipalities with this deal.......more borrowing, deficits....and future costs....time in recover ing costs....raising property taxes....

    As Flaherty said ....use it or loose it.......

    This is set up to fail.
  502. Jim Z from Canada writes: The politicians just don't get it. The Canadian people just wanted them to grow up sit down with all parties coming together include some of the best brains in the country and produce a budget. An intelligent budget that will put the country in a position for an economic recovery.
    Unfortunately we will never see this as long as we do not reform are parliamentary system. We have two many parties in this country.
    Saying that the Bloc should not exsist for starters. This party would never exist in the US. The country needs a two party system and when one of them is out of line the Canadian people can vote them out. By having a fixed election every four years. Plus free votes in the house of commons whereby MP'S can vote for the people they represent.
  503. Gerry Pankhurst from Bridgetown Barbados (Temp), Canada writes: To quote a a much used, well known Canadian phrase: 'He shoots, he scores.' Reading the cheap shot inevitable drivel that is oozing out of the Lefties, in their futile effort to take credit for what is going on is laughable to say the least.

    Onward and upward, Mr. Harper and friends. You out maneuvered them again. May as well complete the renovations to 24 Sussex. Looks like you are going to be there for a while. Good on you!!!!!!
  504. DC Moncton, NB from Canada writes: This budget is a big joke - it does nothing for the middle class...the only thing i see in the future is tax increases and probably a surtax to pay for this deficit, just as we did in the 90's, after Mulroney racked up hugh deficits. Based on what Harper has done in the past- cleaned out the cupboards dry , placed us in a deficit prior to this budget goes to show that he cannot lead, he has lied more than I would care to mention, and therefore he should be ousted...I don't think we should have an election but give the coalition a try, really it can't be as bad as what Harper has done while being a PM A$$
  505. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Doug MacGregor from Canada writes:
    Iggy wants Steve to crawl...
    --------------------

    Stevie's dancing like a monkey, then crawls like a lizard......ha ha ha
  506. Mitch hourigan from Canada, Canada writes: It seems to me that this conservative budget does much more to help banks (and by extension, business) than taxpayers. We are left to bail out the corporate elite, and pick up the crumbs.
  507. Donald Wilson from Canada writes: Where does one start about what this budget isn't ? I see no funds for university undergrads - maybe some for masters students . No help for college or trade schools or the students of same . Homeowner tax credit of up to $1350.00 is only available if a minimum of 1,000.00 is spent and to get the full amount , $ 10 Thou has to be spent . That isn't an incentive . And what about the homeowner than can do the labor himself ? nothing at all for him . This does nothing to help the poorest , or families earning less than 20 Thou . And $750.00 toward a new house - a joke . 100% CCA for a new computer likely mfg in China ??? why are we helping the Chinese at this time ? Municipal assessments are dropping like a stone as property values drop . Property taxes will drop accordingly . Provincial revenues are also down as payroll taxes drop . And Harper expects these two levels to run a hugh deficit ? I don't think so ! Encouraging Banks etc to make risky loans is not responsible . The Feds are already buying up risky paper - with this budget of about 130 billion . The personal income tax cut example printed in this G & M article is erroneous - a family of 2 adults and 2 children , one wage earner , doesn't pay personal income tax . The wage earner pays CPP and EI and WCB . He also pays some GST / HST and a lot of gas taxes . And every tax payer benefits from a reduction in the bottom tax brackets - even the high earners . All by the same amount up to the third bracket . The stay at home Mom loses out on CPP pension . Nothing in this budget address that inequity . Waiting 5 weeks to get EI - 2 weeks would be reasonable given that holiday pay should be included in the last paycheck . It seems that the prospects of getting a new job in Ontario is about the same as getting a new job in Atlantic Canada in the winter months . Why are they getting less EI ? What is the rational ?
  508. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Maybe someone out there has an answer to a question that has been niggling at the back of my mind since the budget was released yesterday: In previous budgets from Mr. Flaherty, 33 billion in infrastructure spending programs were announced. Of that amount, barely 1 billion has been spent. Is that money still out there and available, or is it replaced by the infrastructure announcement in this budget.

    It would not be the first time that a government merely recycled the same promised money over and over. Paul Martin was a past master at that game as was PM Chretien. The Conservatives have become quite adept at it also.

    So can someone tell me if the original 33 billion is still in play?
  509. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Gerry Pankhurst: Red should be incorporated in the new trimmings at 24 Sussex. It suits Harper.
  510. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Municipalities and cities do not have money to spend on these projects beyond what is already committed. Possible a little more by nothing like 9 billion IMO. ANd in hte opinion of the provinces ether.

    The Bild Canada fund has never released anything close to the money announced for cities infrastructure anyway because the feds insisted on the 1/3rd rule and P3's.

    Provinces will necessarily have to go into deep deficit to pay for ths and raise taxes to cover the shortfall.

    Isn't is preferable for the feds to carry the burden and spread the malaise over the entire country rather than risk increases in property taxes and Provincial taxes and other local taxes to pay for this ??

    While they claim to cut taxes ?

    A family making 80 grand (40 grand each), get 2 bucks a week in savings each earner ?? ?? And their property taxes go up to pay for this ? If the price of a single goes up they lose LOL !!!

    It's the old mike harris shuffle. Not much more ..................
  511. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk: About the unspent infrastructure dollars, I believe I heard in the CBC broadcast that it was not included in the budget figures.
  512. Donald Wilson from Canada writes: If the Liberals have a budget prepared in the event of a coalitition - lets see what it contains . Then we can make an informed decision .
  513. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: A return to the Mulroney era of deficits....

    8 CONsecutive CONservative Mulroney deficits........

    Harper CONtinuing the Mulroney tradition.....

    What is it about fiscal responsibility that CONservatives just don't get ???
  514. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: It is reminiscent of the Harris days of downloading costs. Municipalities will be pressed to provide their share of infrastructure costs. In areas where the home assessments were issued, and inflated, one wonders if the municipalities will be nudged to stick it to the property owners.
  515. t scot from Canada writes: Smoke and mirrors budget.... Everything depends on someone else chipping in and they are banking on provincial and municipal governments not doing so. Who's going to spend ten grand on a reno with all the doom and gloom forescasts. Even the u.i. increase doesn't kick in 'till the end. Strictly a b.s. budget from a to z.
  516. Malcolm Thistle from Canada writes: Layton and the Republicans in the U.S have much in common- they are both extremists who cannot shed idealogy and partisanship on behalf of the national consensus. Layton has never had to govern and knows he never will so he puts partisanship and idealogy ahead of everything. The more he does that the more divorced from poilitcal reality he becomes and the more irrelevant to most Canadians. He has been totally irresponsibile through this budgetary process and to his credit, Ignatieff knows this and refuses to be associated with him. Harper has marginalized the NDP and the Bloc and Ignatieff has bought into this. The NDP are the biggest scumbags in political history.
  517. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Hey Vern, I'm not overly unhappy...not ecstatic either. We wouldn't have gotten any better with the Libs writing the budget.... might have been a little worse. Of course, for a died in the wool LIEberal sheep like yourself, this is a lousy budget...simply because your boy didn't write it. Oh well. :-) Kenneth Yurchuk. Of course, one of the few posts that is reasonable and worth responding to. To be expected from you. 1) Everyone's saying 10's of thousands who don't qualify for EI. Please clarify. If you pay into EI, you qualify to draw. If you don't pay in, you don't qualify to draw. What's wrong with that? I do think they should have extended it for more than 5 weeks 2) Re permanent tax cuts. I don't have a problem with that.... as long as people get out and work, produce, we'll bring in lots of tax money...could afford even more tax cuts. The problem arises when people aren't hungry enough, don't work hard enough, don't produce enough. The volume principle. Most lefturds don't understand it... but I think you do. 3) I have no sympathy for the provinces, I do for the municipalities. Municipalities have had so many items downloaded to them by the Provinces, and have so few options to raise money, that there is a problem. I'd think it could be handled quite easily, the feds just pay the whole shot, and claim it back from the Provinces before sending the equalization money to them.
  518. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: I heard somewhere that the opposition intends to present Harper with a fuzzy pink sweater vest with red piping in the HOC to-day.
  519. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: 'Maybe someone out there has an answer to a question that has been niggling at the back of my mind since the budget was released yesterday: In previous budgets from Mr. Flaherty, 33 billion in infrastructure spending programs were announced. Of that amount, barely 1 billion has been spent. Is that money still out there and available, or is it replaced by the infrastructure announcement in this budget.'

    ------------------------------------

    'The budget promises $12-billion in new spending over the next two years in addition to a previously announced multibillion-dollar program that was hampered by administrative delays. The new funding would include a $4-billion fund to renew infrastructure, as well as $2-billion to repair, retrofit and expand facilities in colleges and universities, $500-million for community recreation facilities, and up to $500-million for projects in small communities.'

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/budget/story.html?id=1223294
  520. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    Please Mr Harper, stop bending over, you have already sold the farm. The coalition should go to the polls with Ignatieff as leader. Let Canadians decide. This is the wrong time to hold working Canadians hostage.

    When it comes to liberal greed and entitlement there is never satisfaction.

    When it comes to liberal appallment and outrage there is never resolution.

    I am liberal............I want more.
  521. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Gerry Pankhurst: 'Catherine: Not surprisingly, it has apparently escaped your continuing lack of perception that red is the chosen and really quite appropriate colour of the Liberal party.'

    You're being thick today. Harper looks good in red. He has adopted it as his new main stay.
  522. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: 33 billion in infrastructure spending programs were announced. Of that amount, barely 1 billion has been spent.
    -------------------

    Question is..........

    Will the Harper CONservatives allow the $$$$$ to flow ?????

    Past history has shown NOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Can we really trust Stephen Harper ?????
  523. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Kenneth my understanding is there is 6 billion of new money added to this year's allottment under the original infrastructure program - == the one that was never spent.

    But Municipalities have only 2 years to use it or lose it - the extra portion that is. The feds will goto 50 % but provinces/cities/municipalities must make up the diff.

    In either case the feds have deliberately held up the original money by insisting the cities 'APPLY' ( paperwork and restrictions are enormous sayeth the mayors), for it and then making all kinds of restrictions like the 1/3rd rule and P3 projects made mandatory.

    So it's a revolving announcement at best that leaves property owners at risk in cities and municiplaities - at risk for higher taxes to pay off the cities loans.

    Like I said above it's a variation on the mike harris shuffle. ....
  524. t scot from Canada writes: Gerry Pankhurst...hey Gerry. I hear there are some good deals on property in Utah. Nice mega church just down the road, lots of gun clubs. Better hurry and buy into red neck heaven. That goes for the rest of the mouth breathers on this site also.
  525. Liberal logic is an oxymoron from Canada writes: Ignatieff will either instruct his party to vote for the budget or they will not show up for the vote which is the more likely outcome of the two. Ignatieff can't have the government defeated just yet, regardless of the tone of his rhetoric, due to the fact that his party doesn't have the finances to run the type of campaign Ignatieff would like to run. Then there's the business that technically Ignatieff is the 'interim' leader and the convention is still set for May in Vancouver. So while for the photo-op Ignatieff will hold his nose, he and his party will not let the government fall. I think that Ignatieff trusts the likes of Layton and Duceppe even less than he does Harper.
  526. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Jason Roy: Thanks for the clarification. That is actually good news IF the government cuts through the red tape and actually gets the money out there.

    Don Adams; Check out the differences in what it takes to qualify for EI. The rules were set back when Ontario was still prosperous. Now that unemployment in many areas of Southern Ontario (Toronto excepted so far) the manufacturing crisis has raised Unemployment levels to similar levels as traditionally high unemployment areas. Yet fewer than 50% of laid off Ontario workers qualify.
  527. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: t scot from Canada writes: Smoke and mirrors budget.... Everything depends on someone else chipping in and they are banking on provincial and municipal governments not doing so. -------------------------------------- Last time I checked most federal infratructure spending formulas were split between the feds, the provinces and the municipalities. Imagine...following normal procedure to do something...the horror of it all. So let's just say 'phuck it' - throw the money out the door piecemeal. Then I can come back here and read hundreds upon hundreds of comments from Liberal and NDP lemmings about how the money is unaccounted for and spent irresponsibly. Of course that's how it's gone so far anyway...government has no stimulus - they must go. Oh wait, the coalition has nothing in stone either - but they must stay. Oh wait, the plan the coalition came up with, that's good. Oh my, Harper's stimulus will cause a deficit...that's baaaaaaad. God gawd - Harper sez there might be tax cuts - the horror. But Iggy sez he's looking at tax cuts - that's good. The Harper government didn't act fast enough - they must be defeated so we can wait even longer for something, but that's good. Harper just brought in a Liberal budget that must be defeated so we can get the same budget with possibly a few more crumbs, but that'll b good.
  528. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    Duceppe is voting against the budget because he wants billions more for Quebec.

    Duceppe has right of first refusal over anything the coalition proposes.

    The Coalition's budget will have billions for Quebec.

    Will that be money be taken out of EI? Or possibly financial support for one industry towns?
  529. Fran Irwin from Medicine Hat, Canada writes: First impression - not targeted enough on the stimulous. A mile wide and an inch deep - too many goodies to buy votes, too little for too many and not enough effective spending for the unemployed, low income, and our cities and towns who will be unable to raise the money to participate...expect that infrastructure dollars will stay in government coffers, not unlike previous announcements...Enough $s will never get out the door to be effective. Harper is hoping that this economic meltdown will not last long - he is still in denial. In the long run, smaller government and fewer federal programs will be the result - kind of Harper's end-game after all...a half-hearted effort at best with the hope on his part that a Conservative government can finally shrink the Federal government in-line with his ideology. Depressing?? you bet!
  530. Donald Wilson from Canada writes: Also forgot to ask where is there a program to help homeowners and business get away from oil / gas heating ? Seems to me this would be a great time to begin a program of installing geothermal heating / cooling across Canada . This would take several years and see many small contractors thru to better times .
    But I forgot - that's not how Harper thinks .

    And not a mention of revising the National Building Code to reflect better buildings that are easier to heat and cool .
  531. NL Patriot from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: A return to the Mulroney era of deficits....

    8 CONsecutive CONservative Mulroney deficits........

    Harper CONtinuing the Mulroney tradition.....

    What is it about fiscal responsibility that CONservatives just don't get ???

    ---------

    mike why don't you give it a rest. If you have something of substance to contribute to the conversation fine, but this constant, blatant partisan rants are really getting old.

    Is this the best you can come up with or do you have a mind that actually works and can create a single individual thought.

    Please, for the amount of time you spend on this site you would think you would actually have an opinion. Instead you insist on posting your mindless nonsense.

    There are a lot of people on this site I don't agree with but atleast they have an opinion and sometimes even present an arguement to support thier position.

    Blind partisans are what is wrong with this country. We have one in Government and we have one in the Opposition, Layton.

    Lets hope Ignatief can rise above this and actually put canadians first.
  532. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: I've read it all, it's black and white
    The spectrum made a shade I like.
    The crimson rays are ruby bright
    Technicolor light.
    Red! I want red, there's no substitute for red.
    Red! Paint it red, green ain't mean compared to red.
    You don't know what it does to me,
    My crimson intensity
    I'm haunted by the mystery,
    The mystey of red.
    Red knocks 'em dead,
    Some like it hot, I like it read.
    Red is my lover, got it covered
    Red is my number, sure as a coma
    Red is my drummer, and I hear red thunder
    Move over brother,
    Red's a mother
    (Red! Red!)
    Thats' what I said...
    (Red! Red!)
  533. Western Clods from Vancouver, Canada writes:

    Time to bring down this farce of a government.

    Bring on the election!
  534. North Star from Canada writes: Tory times are tough times.

    Harper cannot be trusted.
  535. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    The coalition's proposal for Canada involves putting Quebec's interests ahead of the rest of Canada's.

    Duceppe made is position crystal clear yesterday.

    The GG will call an election, the Coalition will go to the polls with Ignatieff as leader and Duceppe with right of first refusal over all of their legislation.
  536. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    donnie there are good points and not so good points in the budget. I said so last night and in the aft when it was released. I am still reading it and understanding it and it's ramifications.

    On theother hand you do not understand the EI system and how it works so I suggest you shut TF up until you do understand it and acknowledge you understand it.

    Don't call me a sheep donnie or I will go up to Perth - open the chocolate factory again and put you back to work sweeping up.

    Are you prepared to pay more propety taxes don while the fedCOns take credit for all this infrastructure stuff and all the help they talk about spreading around ??

    I am not. I am prepares to pay a little more to help out unemployed person who do not qualify for EI and are out of work. 600,000 of em for which NOTHING is being done.

  537. Mitch hourigan from Canada, Canada writes: While this government hands out pennies to the populace with one hand, it bails out the corporate banks (see ABCP) with our taxpayer dollars. The CEO of BMO recently got his $6 mil.
  538. NL Patriot from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Liberal logic is an oxymoron from Canada writes: Ignatieff will either instruct his party to vote for the budget or they will not show up for the vote which is the more likely outcome of the two. Ignatieff can't have the government defeated just yet, regardless of the tone of his rhetoric, due to the fact that his party doesn't have the finances to run the type of campaign Ignatieff would like to run. Then there's the business that technically Ignatieff is the 'interim' leader and the convention is still set for May in Vancouver. So while for the photo-op Ignatieff will hold his nose, he and his party will not let the government fall. I think that Ignatieff trusts the likes of Layton and Duceppe even less than he does Harper

    -----------

    I would hope that Ignatief would not obstain from the vote, we have seen enough of that from Dion, Iggy has to distinguish himself from that legacy.

    My preference is that the NL liberal MP's vote against this budget and that Iggy will let them. That will allow our MP's to stand up for NL and spare Iggy the ire of Williams LOL. Danny is off his head again with Harper and he has good reason.
  539. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    Ignatieff was not supposed to be the fall guy.

    Where is Dion when you need him?
  540. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Please !!!

    Can the creepy brainwashed harper worshippers stay out of this so a decent conversation can proceed ???

    We thinking citizens would like to get to the bottom of all this stuff.........
  541. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Doug MacGregor from Canada writes:
    Iggy wants Steve to crawl...

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well for a snake that shouldn't be too difficult

    Vote for Iggy, not the Piggy

    .
  542. Alan Wayne Scott from Canada writes: Merely repairing an antiquated infrastructure will not give us the transportation system necessary to our common, long-term prosperity going forward. Further greening and expanding the railway as a major vehicle for intercity goods movement is key, as is comprehensive redesign of urban mobility infrastructure - and not limited to just public transit initiatives.

    Restoring the inanely irresponsible model the corrosion of which we idly ignored over the past twenty years, would leave us even further behind the forward-thinking world.

    Still, I fail to see a realistic acknowledgement of these issues in the proposed budget strategy.

    While one wouldn't wish too upset the spirit of working together in any way, somebody had to mention it, eh?

    Best of luck to us, CANADA!!!

    -scunny-

    And remember folks, a coalition does not necessarily constitute a coup.
  543. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: I was worried that the money for infrastructure would be characterized by red tape and this is the case. How are municipalities that are already struggling going to manage to come up with a third of the costs for projects?
    As for the tax break for middle income earners, it is approximately $280. That is not even one timmies a day, this will have very little impact.
    A tax relief would have been to give a tax holiday on taxes due in April, giving people an actual refund which most people spend quickly. That would have injected actual dollars in the economy.
    I hope Iggy and company demand changes because this budget just does not cover it.
  544. Malcolm Thistle from Canada writes: Having pushed and cajoled Harper into running a deficit, they now say it's too large or that it's structural. You've got to hand it to Ignatieff. He's smart and he's tricky and under his leadership the party has returned to it's principles, which are to have no principles, show no consistency, be ready to change with the wind, and to always seek power. What scumbags. Under their leadership they've made Canada what it is, parochial, partisan, and and consigned to the scrap heap of federations because we can't bridge the stresses of provincial fiefdoms and partisanship politics.
  545. J S from Canada writes: The tax cuts are a waste. $200?
  546. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: Here we go again. Harper's twin is overconfident and thinks he can play chicken. We are goign to end up with another election. The arrogance is astounding.
  547. J S from Canada writes: We need smarter spending. Someone needs to go back over this budget and improve it.
  548. A B from calgary, Canada writes: Budget Insult To Taxpayer Intelligence...AGAIN!!!
    What a farce this budget is. Flaherty taking credit for increases that were already there and items that had been promised before. Lets look at the claim of increasing the Basic Exemption from $9,600 to $10,320 - NO! this credit has already been established at $10,100 for 2009 and is in all published tax tables for 2009 as a cost of living adjustment. What the budget does is increase it by an extra $220 or 2.2%

    What about the increase in the upper limitstes for the 15% and 22% tax brackets up by 7.5%? NO!!!. these upper limits were already established through the 'NORMAL' cost of living increase of 2.5% to be $38,832 and $77,664 anyway. The added benefit is about $2,000 on each rate and the tax savings will be a maximum of about $140 until you exceed the $77,000 amount, i.e., $2,000 * 7% (22%-15%). On a weekly basis, this amounts to about $2.69.

    The Age Credit will amount to $150 for those with incomes up to $33,000. At that point the lovely CLAWBACK of Age credit kicks in and will wipe it out at the $70,000 level.

    Nothing in the budget for RRSP / RRIF or Trusts other than the item related to the 25% reduction in 2008 RRIF amounts.

    What an insult to a taxpayers intelligence!!!!
  549. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: How about we follow common sense and bunker down and STOP spending money when we dont have it. Why do you think we are in this mess - because everyone has been spending with the equity of their house, their credit cards, line of credits, and the list goes on. Get control of yourselves.
  550. economic slave from Toronto, Canada writes: Iggy and the Liberals will ultimately have to support the budget. The alternatives are: a) coalition government, which can't work since the coalition is divided on the budget--e.g., Liberal support vs Bloc and NDP nonsupport b) calling an election would delay any stimulus package and the anger of Canadians would result in a Conservative majority. c) Liberals don't want to be in power right now with deficit spending. The Coalition gave impetus to this deficit budget. It is the Coalition who wanted a spend-spend budget and they got it. Now Canadians will have to live with it, and down the road will have to
    'pony' up the money to pay off the deficit with higher taxes.

    Why wasn't there spending cuts in the budget? Why didn't the politicians freeze their salaries, office budgets, travel expenses, etc.
    There is a lot of waste at the government level and, although deficit spending probably could not be avoided, at least it would send a message to Canadians that politicians are being 'hit' in the pocket book as well.

    At the end of the road, the total Canadian debt will. conservatively, hit 500 billion dollars.
  551. Stan L from Canada writes: I think that Igantieff will vote for the budget, but with changes. The budget wasn't all bad but there is nothing much to recommend it either. I was hoping that the Conservatives would make me eat crow and come up with something that was innovative and forward thinking, but really it was simply a collection of spending initiatives that have met with success and failure in the past to a greater or lesser degree.

    The areas I find dissapointing are in EI, the notion of job stimulus and job protection (I get concerned with relying on infrastructure spending becuase from a purely selfish standpoint....I don't swing a hammer for a living and my job is not going to be impacted positively or negatively by any of that spend) I find the tax breaks are weak and ineffectual, not to mention that the lowest income people (those on assistance) have not been helped at all. I get concerned about the fact that the municpalities have to pony up to get their projects going (not everyone lives in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver with big budgets that have room to manover and manipulate)

    Overall a dissapointing effort and it makes me hope that he didn't pay that so-called all star panel....if he did, they should get their money back.
  552. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes: Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Gerry Pankhurst: 'Catherine: Not surprisingly, it has apparently escaped your continuing lack of perception that red is the chosen and really quite appropriate colour of the Liberal party.'

    You're being thick today. Harper looks good in red. He has adopted it as his new main stay.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Steve in red, with that tummy

    Now we can call him Santa Clots

    He already has his Dwarf

    The great Reform Alliance PC Confederacy died yesterday

    Now all that is left is the Cult of Steve, Fearless Thiever

    I hear George Bush will be offered the Governor's General job

    The Bush White House just moved North.

    Harper's Govt has become a trainwreck

    It will now take a 3 Term Liberal Govt to clean up the mess

    .

    .
  553. N. Ontarian from Canada writes: Go ahead and vote it down, Iggy. Make my day! By the way, did you see the CTV poll from yesterday, where they asked what people want if the budget and government is defeated? 75% want an election - yes, 75%, and only 25% want a coalition government. Go ahead and defeat it Libs, because then we can have an election, and a majority government, and some stability for a while. Oh, by the way, that would not be a Liberal majority government. In fact, you guys would probably be looking at the back of Jack Layton's head, in the H of C for a few years. Turn it down? Bring it on, baby!
  554. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Please !!!

    Can the creepy brainwashed harper worshippers stay out of this so a decent conversation can proceed ???

    We thinking citizens would like to get to the bottom of all this stuff.........

    -----------------------------------

    ...you want decent conversation yet you start it off with 'creepy branwashed harper worshippers' - in addition to the usual 'dufus', 'liars', 'cave dwellers', etc that you normally post on pretty near any given day...

    Thanx for the laff!
  555. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk..... are you saying that workers who've PAID IN to the system can't collect? First time I've heard that! I know self employeds, who don't have to pay in, can't collect....I was in that category when I had my Company.

    Vernie, what chocolate factory in Perth? There used to be a distillery in Perth..... if they'd start up another one here, I'd be quite happy to work part time in it! :-) As I said to Kenneth.... please clarify what workers don't qualify. Please quote the section of the act that says a worker MUST pay in but CAN'T collect.

    Thanks :-)
  556. Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    Well Vern -- if you really want an intelligent conversation -- I suggest that you stay out of this.

    Out of approximately 3 years of reading your insipid posts -- I found approximately 4 that were worth while.

    That is is a lot of stuff to crawl through to find 4 tiny diamonds -- and even then they weren't the best quality.
  557. Michael S from Canada writes: Vote no. Let's go to the polls. Let's give the Cons a majority government. The Libs can then sit and spin.

    Or, vote yes and stay active in government.
  558. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    A B from calgary, Canada writes: Budget Insult To Taxpayer Intelligence...AGAIN!!!

    ======================================

    You are quite correct AB. This was mentioned last evening - I believe in an NP article -------- but somewhere ???

    The tax savings are indeed a joke. More of the mike harris shuffle.
  559. greg stockton from toronto, Canada writes: To all those salivating to gorge at the public trough, could you step aside, just for a short time, and let those who will be feeding you, the sensible savers and spenders, have a few words.
  560. Allen GG from MazatlanMexico, Canada writes: Conclusion, after reading most of the above posts:

    Most grudgingly support the proposed budget.

    Except for the foolish comments, most people don't like what's happening but feel that the government should have foreseen the extent of the current world situation.

    Here's the message, the Canadian Government did not cause the world recession.
  561. D S from Canada writes: I truly believe this budget is pretty close to what was needed at this point in time. The big thing that really gets to me is when I drive home from work past our local pub and see all of the steel workers, miners, forestery workers and other labourers that have been laid off sitting and drinking some of their E.I away and all the while bitching that the government isn't giving them enough money. The fact of the matter is that most workers in these fields are not strictly miners or steelworkers but rather they are labourers!!!! I have some young friends who have been grossing around $100K a year working as miners and once they lost their jobs expect to be generously compensated with E.I until the economy turns around.... Instead, I support the government setting up a $1.5B training fund and $12B infrastructure fund (as well as the other stimulus infrastructure-related funds) instead of having these people sit around for months on end bitching that they can't find a job.... well here ya go guys!!!! pick up a shovel for the next year or so and work another labour job until the market rebounds... you will even get paid a fair wage for your training!!! do something productive for our country instead of sucking out the working people's taxpayer's dollars while sitting at the bar and bitchin about unfair compensation!!!! Harper even extended E.I by 5 weeks in case the implementation of these projects is stalled in certain areas of the country... There will always be an argument about whether we should have gone this far into deficit or not, but its the principle behind the funding that is important to me... Jack Layton is on another plant right now bitching and complaining that this budget doesn't protect or create jobs... and increasing the crap out of E.I so laid-off labourers can sit at the bar for a few more months does Jack? I'm so sick of the NDP mentality... a lazy-minded and selfish point of view that would only worsen everything.
  562. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Economic Slave. Good points re spending cuts and waste at Government level. Unfortunately, in a minority situation, to try to make the changes that are necessary would probably result in them being voted down. We need a majority in order to do that.

    What's interesting here is Harper/Iggy. If the Cons refuse to make any changes Iggy will demand, and Iggy ultimately accepts the budget, he's leaving himself wide open to being another Dion. The Cons DO want to cut waste..... cut the size of the civil service, freeze salaries, take away the right to strike for Gov't workers etc. And, if Iggy turns out to be a Dion, they'll go for it and dare him to bring down the Gov't. Cutting back a fat cat civil service will sell everywhere in Canada (except Ottawa, of course).

    BTW Vernie..... there's a real good pill on the market....called Lorazapam..... get your Dr. to proscribe it for you...it's a great calmer downer..... will allow you to sleep at night instead of posting all night! :-)
  563. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: So, if I build a wine cellar in my basement, is that considered renovation?

    My guess would be yes... as long as you use CDN lumber and spend over $1000 doing it. Don't forget to stock it with local wines so as to help our local economies.

    __________________________

    I have read and re-read this portion of the budget, Dan, and cannot find any condition that states the materials must be Canadian-made. If that proviso were there, it would make more sense. Without it, it makes no sense at all. The people who had planned to do renos this year (I'm one of them) will do the renos anyway. And the public purse will be short as a result. No jobs will be created as a result, however, I will still enjoy my refinished basement as much as I would have without the tax credit. If there is a 'Canadian-made' condition on this reno money, I would appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction.
  564. James Young from Brampton, Canada writes: That's a budget? Utter complete nonsense. Let's have an election. Anything has to be better than this crap.

    Durgan.
  565. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Harper's Govt has become a trainwreck

    It will now take a 3 Term Liberal Govt to clean up the mess

    -----------------------------------------

    The coalition financial plan also calls for 4 years of deficits followed by a return to surplus in the fifth year...

    ...THE SAME AS THE GOVERNMENT PLAN.

    Wake up, sheep!
  566. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Kenneth Yurchuk..... are you saying that workers who've PAID IN to the system can't collect? First time I've heard that! I know self employeds, who don't have to pay in, can't collect....I was in that category when I had my Company.
    _______________________________________________________

    What I'm saying Don is that workers in Southern Ontario have to contribute longer, wait longer, and collect for a far shorter period of time, in spite of making the same contributions, and that statistically 50% of Ontario workers who contribute are still disqualified for one reason or another.

    I'll find you a link and post it later.
  567. J M M from Canada writes: The Liberal Party is so broke that to avoid a costly Vancouver leardership convention they shoved Ignatieff thru' the back door as leader and this is the party who thinks they can handle tax payers money controled by half asleep Mc Callum. Don't think so.
  568. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: Don Adams: If you pay into E.I. you do not necessarily qualify to get it. Here is a recent example: A person was working two part time jobs, then got a full time job, so they quit the part time jobs. This person has been walking 1.5 hours each way to work because of the transit strike in Ottawa, that is 3 hours a day. The full time job disappeared as the head office went bankrupt. When the person went to apply for unemployment they were denied it because they quit the part time jobs. Hardly a fair system.
  569. D W from Wpg, Canada writes: While the idea of the coalition is appalling - the NDP and BLOC will vote against the Cons regardless of how good the budget is simply to gain power for themselves(would you want people like this running the country?) - my thoughts on the budget are that it does not go far enough. If you want to increase auto sales for example allow a gst free purchase on vehicles for a finite period of time and perhaps on all purchases - something to think about. Had they pulled the gst on cars it might have got me off the fence on getting a new vehicle. Something like this would help everybody. The tax credit for home renos is probably unclaimable til next year so in the near time it does few people any good. Infrastructure probably won't get down to the common worker for a long time with any benefits in the short term.

    Seems like a deep hole for the gov't to dig itself out of down the road for little benefit. Pretty vague really as to where the money will actually go(much like the handout to the auto industry) but it does not seem like it will get where it will do a lot of good - the average Canadian.
  570. John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: What a great budget! Canadians who earn over $80,000 and the foreigners who own our industry do great don't they? They really need this money.
  571. Pierre Dionne from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks Dan for your answer. I was planning some reno for 2009/2010, I may have to accelerate and do everything in 2009 to take the full credit.

    On another note, I hope Iggy cancels the income tax reduction. After all, as I read soooo many times on these threads, a surplus is a sign of overtaxation. Surely, with the huge deficits predicted for the next two years, we must now be WAYYYY undertaxed. Everybody write to your MP and ask them to raise taxes!!!
  572. greg stockton from toronto, Canada writes: Don Adams wrote:

    BTW Vernie..... there's a real good pill on the market....called Lorazapam..... get your Dr. to proscribe it for you...it's a great calmer downer..... will allow you to sleep at night instead of posting all night! :-)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Another example of sharing and caring. If only more Canadians could act this unselfishly.
  573. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: that budget WAS a concession
    The Liberal Party has shown their true colours today
    I don't like getting partisan, but cmon. that was a Liberal budget brought down by a Conservative minister
  574. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Now that I have identified the creepy brainwashed harper worshippers - adams roy, curmudgy etc - with the exception of sharpe and thstle who have yet to respond - lets get on with the conversation ...........

  575. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: Mathew, don’t presume that you know anything about Alberta, because obviously you don’t _________________________________ Natasha = it appears that you “know” only that which you wish to “know”, evidenced by the following post. ___________________________________ Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: Toast and Coffee says: posters can rail that they have the answer and can describe it in a sentence or two. Others say reduced taxation is no good. Toast, yes its that simple. Alberta was in the same situation and what turned the province around and shot it clear to prosperity was massive tax cuts and massive spending cuts. Its fact. It worked. They only solution is one that is proven to work and that’s the way to do it. _________________________________________ Natasha, clearly you missed the part about massive revenues from the oil patch or are the Conservatives in Alberta going to take credit for putting that oil in the ground, too? Too bad the Conservative brain trust didn’t think to actually do anything productive with all those surpluses when oil was priced so high, eh? Great investments in the horse racing industry, sure, but you still can't hire a nurse in this province to save a life (we drove them all to Texas during our massive spending cuts, remember?) Sure, that's the way to do it.
  576. David Wei from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I believe that the Liberal will support the budget that can save our economy and jobs. I hate the attitutes of NDP and BLOC which are not responsible and do not care our people only concentrate on their power. I do think our country does not need so many parties. Conservative and Liberal are enough, this can save a lot our tax payers money.
  577. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Don Adams, Here are a few quotes on EI inequities: The inequities are particularly striking in Employment Insurance. Compared with many other provinces, most [Ontario] employees have to work longer to qualify for shorter periods of benefits. Globe and Mail editorial March 27, 2008 … although Ontario workers accounted for 42 per cent of the nation’s unemployed, they received only 27 per cent of Ottawa’s funding allocation for training. Globe and Mail editorial March 27, 2008 In setting a higher bar for Ontarians to qualify for benefits, Ottawa ignored the fact that Ontarians who lose their jobs need EI support while hunting for a new job, just like the unemployed in any other region. But far too many Ontarians never get even that limited support. Toronto Star editorial February 10, 2008 It makes absolutely no sense for Ontario workers to pay into a fund that provides generous support to the unemployed in other parts of the country when so many of the same Ontarians can expect to get nothing if they lose their jobs. Toronto Star editorial February 10, 2008 Millions of Canadians who pay into the [Employment Insurance] account are not eligible to draw benefits. In Toronto, for example, 78 per cent of the unemployed don't qualify for jobless relief. They pay EI premiums like everyone else … In short, EI benefits are unavailable to the very workers who need them most. Carol Goar, Toronto Star December 5, 2007
  578. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: The main problem with the budget , is that Harper has no vision for Canada's future.When Dion responded to Harpers begging the Governor General for proroguation, he laid out a vision for economic stimulus based on alternative energy and energy efficiency .Transportation infrastructure, home and business energy retrofits create jobs today with lasting social and environmental benefits, whereas Harper's budget has no vision , and no lasting benefits.
  579. Stan L from Canada writes: Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: that budget WAS a concession
    The Liberal Party has shown their true colours today
    I don't like getting partisan, but cmon. that was a Liberal budget brought down by a Conservative minister

    No Derek, it was not a Liberal budget. I am not a big fan of this budget, but I don't hate it either.....But let's stop pretending. This budget was Harper trying to dig himself out of a very bad poltical hole, the spending in this budget was suggested by the parties and the country and is generally accepted as the way to go.....given that we were already in defift territory what exactly would have Harper done differently....not spend a dime? nonsense. This budget was Harper's choice and Harper's by design, he is the leader and makes the choices.....he went for a little of everything to sort of make everyone happy.......he HAD the choice to be visionary, or to stick to his guns and his own path....but he chose political expedience....HIS choice.
  580. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: The home reno tax part of this budget could play out rather like the one in the past when there was a huge payout for insulating homes.. Almost immediately there were trucks on the road advertising insulation and if anyone remembers that spawned the great urea formaldehyde boondoggle. Many people were ripped off by unscrupulous contractors. I can imagine this will happen again.
  581. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evelyn, I'd agree that wouldn't be fair....but, how long were they working at the full time job..... probably not long enough to qualify for EI. Lets face it, the line has to be drawn somewhere. This person probably falls into a crack. However, there is help for them...they CAN draw welfare.

    Kenneth...thanks...I wasn't aware that was going on....no, that isn't fair given today's situation...maybe it was a few years ago, but not today.

    Vernie, how about you just going and taking a sleeping pill and let reasonable people continue posting on this thread? :-)
  582. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Poor adams hasn't a clue about much. He prescribes medicine for others who may not share his ideology but that's from years of ignoring facts, how to put same together coherently - and the sacred scrolls.

    Moreover he isn't interested in how the EI system works bercause it interferes with his little belief system that harper walks on water and all liberals are scum.

    Seems the liberalization of little stevie hasn't yet registered for the brainwashed COns.

    If liberals are scum and stevie did a liberal budget it must follow harper is also scum.

    Logica est ars artsium.

    I know that's far too deep for non-thinking creepy brainwashed stevie worshippers ........ but there you have it ......

    Lanark County Chocolate here I come ........... but I can't pay that much .......

    Have a nice time COns. I have to get to my rent collection. It's near the end of the month again. .........
  583. J M M from Canada writes: geoffrey may--Dion wanted to Green Shaft the whole counrty, you call that good .
  584. May Spence from Canada writes: This is a budget to save Canada from a coalition government and a higher deficit. If you listened to Layton, all he could say wasn't the government hadn't spent enough. Layton wants to take the money from working Canadians and give it to those who don't work. He wants to make the benefits so good, they can't afford to take lower paying jobs. Use your imagination folks, a coalition government would also mean the Bloc wringing out of the rest of Canada billions more so the coalition could stay in power. The Libs and NDP don't have enough seats to govern or defeat the government. The Bloc would have the hammer and they would use it. If the Libs vote against this government, then we must have an election.
  585. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Kenneth, thanks. I wasn't aware of that. BUT, I can see why it might have been done that way....in the past, it's been easy to get a job in Ontario...far easier than in other provinces eg NL. So, it may have been a case of 'have' Canadians helping out 'non have' Canadians. However, I agree that's not the case today in Southern Ontario, so I'd go along with a change to the rules.
  586. John Sexton from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a'bait-and-switch' budget: it promises to address the social dislocations and economic fall-out of those who lose their jobs by merely adding 5 weeks extra EI; it promises to stimulate the economy through 'triggered' infrastructure investments, meaning the money flows only if provinces, cities, municipalities and home-owners are willing to take on extra debt.

    This is a whole lot of nothing for everyone.

    The Banks and the Mortgage Insurance Companies, on the other hand, get a promised financial backstop of 200 billion. The idea that Canadian taxpayer investments will only involve triple-A rated mortgages and other non-risky assets (so that the Banks will then free up capital for further lending) and make a profit to boot is both baffling and laughable. It is also fundamentally 'uneconomic'; we, the Canadian tax-payer need to see the real roadmap for this scheme.

    Any and every part of this budget that deals with new powers for Mr.Flaherty and the Canadian Deposit Insurance Corp to 'promote financial stability' which could lead to the establishing a new bank to buy up toxic or marginal or value-less assets to help, that is, to rescue the Banks and the Mortgage Insurance companies needs to be removed from this budget and debated separately in Parliament where we can all better understand why these provisions are necessary to advance the public interest.

    As it exist now, this budget is utterly unacceptable.
  587. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Eveil Evey...yepper, could happen again if folks aren't careful. Caveat emptor! I don't feel sorry for the ones who don't do their due dilligence when dealing with any contractor. Greed..... or stupidity. Their problem.
  588. The Real PS from Canada writes: Iggy to call for changes...
    .
    How entirely predictable, dear God I'm sick of politicians of all stripes.
  589. peter clarke from Toronto, Canada writes: Just NOT needed. 179 million for Forestry, $2-billion to repair post-secondary institutions. $50-million for the Institute for Quantum Computing in Waterloo, Ont. $500-million agricultural flexibility program. $50-million over three years to increase slaughterhouse capacity. $200-million over two years for the Canadian Television Fund. $60-million over two years for community theatres, libraries and museums. Increased funding for the National Arts Training Contribution program. $30-million over two years for magazines and community newspapers. $24-million to support cruise ship infrastructure along the Saint Lawrence and Saguenay rivers. $75-million over two years for Parks Canada facilities, and an additional $75-million for national historic sites. What is NEEDED is a 15% reduction in government employees, with 5% coming through early retirement. A freeze for four (4) years on all government and crown corporation employees. After two years, while the freeze remain, an adjustment would be made for the cost of living only ( based on our annual inflation rate) for the reaming 2 years. All banks would have to pay interest at the rate of 4% on annual deposits and credit card interest rates to be capped for all cards at 12%. Beginning in 2009 all federal, provincial and municipal politicians and government and crown employees pensions would be capped at 40% based on the average salaries for the last five years of employment. Governments at all levels would by law have to live within their means and not spend or budget any more than could be paid for out of annual revenues collected each year. This would be a budget for the majority of people and not a hand out.
  590. The Real PS from Canada writes: N. Ontarian from Canada writes: Go ahead and vote it down, Iggy. Make my day! . Turn it down? Bring it on, baby!
    .
    The problem is N, you know, I know, Harper knows, Iggy knows, in fact everybody knows (well okay, not Vern but you know what I mean) that Iggy isn't going to vote anything down, he'll huff and puff but when it comes down to it...
    .
    Yet, in the mean time, lets keep the uncertainty going 'cos God knows that helps...
  591. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: Don, I appreciate your open mindedness to-day. I have written about things that need changing in the budget, but there are also things that could work out well.

    So much will depend on whether the government is sincere in their 'change of heart'

    I hope the Libs and Dippers will move reasonable amendments that the government can support. While I'm no fan of the current government, if they actually are prepared to work with the opposition, I'd rather see continuity at the moment than the chaos that would result from a non-confidence motion.

    There'll be plenty of time for politics a year from now.
  592. Joe Kolo from Canada writes: Excellent post Peter, reposted the what is needed!
    What is NEEDED is a 15% reduction in government employees, with 5% coming through early retirement. A freeze for four (4) years on all government and crown corporation employees. After two years, while the freeze remain, an adjustment would be made for the cost of living only ( based on our annual inflation rate) for the reaming 2 years. All banks would have to pay interest at the rate of 4% on annual deposits and credit card interest rates to be capped for all cards at 12%. Beginning in 2009 all federal, provincial and municipal politicians and government and crown employees pensions would be capped at 40% based on the average salaries for the last five years of employment. Governments at all levels would by law have to live within their means and not spend or budget any more than could be paid for out of annual revenues collected each year. This would be a budget for the majority of people and not a hand out.
  593. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Off to collect your rents Vernie? And perhaps evict a jobless single Mom or 2 for non payment? :-)

    How about cutting your rents 25% Vernie? That'd help out the less fortunate in our society. :-)
  594. dave charlston from toronto, Canada writes: '$12-billion to build and repair roads, hockey arenas and other infrastructure, a measure that Liberals said ahead of the budget was a necessary part of an effective stimulus program.'

    Hockey arenas???? Why are we worried about hockey arenas in a time like this? It's an idiotic sport to start with. God forbid if we don't get those hockey arenas repaired.
  595. steve allan from Canada writes: Defeat the government.

    The more I see of this budget, the more I realize it's more smoke and mirrors than real initiatives to lessen the impact of the global crisis.

    The EI measures are grossly inadequate, the infrastructure program is not even properly costed and thought out. Most of it will never get off the ground.

    There's a lot of very minor initiatives that really don't amount to anything. The Tories have tried to pull the wool over the eyes of Canadians but I don't think it's going to work.

    Expect a coalition government to be in place shortly.
  596. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evelyn, I'd agree that wouldn't be fair....but, how long were they working at the full time job..... probably not long enough to qualify for EI. Lets face it, the line has to be drawn somewhere. This person probably falls into a crack. However, there is help for them...they CAN draw welfare.
    ****************************
    Don Adams:
    The person in question has worked steady since graduating 4 years ago. I think that qualifies them to collect if they lose their job through no fault of their own.
    As for welfare, that is completely unfair to put a hard working person in that position when they legitimately qualify for EI. You don’t understand the welfare system, they would fight EI before they would pay and in the mean time is it let them eat cake?.

    The E.I. system needed some systemic help to get people through this economic mess we are in. For many even having to go the E.I. office is embarrassing and you want to send them to the welfare office. Not a very caring or practical suggestion Don.
  597. Wilma Guywin from Allover Canada, Canada writes: May Spence from Canada writes: This is a budget to save Canada from a coalition government and a higher deficit.

    you are right and the majority of Canadians agree with you.
  598. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Kenneth...I'm always open minded. Just show me the proof, as you did today...not just a bunch of bluster and BS.

    Because, if a poster just sends out BS (eg Dizzy Lizzy's namesake) I'll just reply in kind, as you well know :-)
  599. Jack Sprat from Calgary, Canada writes: Maybe Iggy will surprise me and call for the removal of all the useless vote buying bucks and demand that all the money be spent on projects that will improve Canada's economic competitiveness?

    Nah...

    He'll just be Harper plus.
  600. Sally Struthers from Canada writes: YAY! A tax break on my home renos!!! Now if only I could AFFORD home renos.... ooops guess it's not so great
  601. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: How about we follow common sense and bunker down and STOP spending money when we dont have it. Why do you think we are in this mess - because everyone has been spending with the equity of their house, their credit cards, line of credits, and the list goes on. Get control of yourselves.
  602. Ontario Man from Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes:
    How about cutting your rents 25% Vernie? That'd help out the less fortunate in our society. :-)

    ------------------------------------------------

    I am sure Vernie would be happy to comply as soon as:

    1. the banks reduce his mortgage by 25%
    2. the municipality reduces his property tax by 25%
    3. the utilities cut their charges for heating and electricity by 25%
    4. the maintenance personnel accept a 25% pay cut

    I think you get the point, or would you prefer the rental property go into forclousure and be taken over by squatters?
  603. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Nope, not too caring Evey. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

    I've worked two jobs, OT, weekends, nights, minimum wage etc. Drew UIC for 6 weeks once, 42 years ago. Pride wouldn't ever let me do it again...and, believe me, there were times.....

    If someone's not prepared to do what has to be done, then suffer the embarrassment of begging for welfare.
  604. muriel z from Canada writes: This is the original tax break budget, and we know tax breaks don't work in a recession, they didn't work for Bush nor will they for Harper.

    They're only of benefit to big business and the wealthy, for middle income earners perhaps a $300 tax reduction, Whoop-De-Do. If they all rush out to spend it we will have another round of inflation. Of course the ones who have lost their jobs won't even have that.

    The conservatives have paid attention to the comments following the multple 'leaks', and inserted watered down versions of some of Ignatieffs demands to make it difficult for Ignatieff to vote it down.

    We will have a much bigger deficit, for our childern to pay off, with Flaherty saying he can't promise all measures will be implemented.

    With provinces cash strapped, and required to match funds, we know thats one promise he and Harper will keep. One out of how many?. Mr Harris must be smiling.

    Because of reduced tax revenues and lost GST, social services etc: will decline, we are in for a bumpy ride.

    The changes made by Harper will make it difficult for the LIberal party the clean up the Conservative mess this time. He said we wouldn't recognize Canada when he was through. I believe him.

    Canadians voted against the Reform party but we got their agenda anyway, from the evil leader of the reform party.
    Mr Mckay you should be ashamed of yourself, you destroyed the Conservative party.
  605. The Backpacker from Canada writes: Crazy idea that will never work or be implemented but I just had to think/type outloud...

    Would it be completely unreasonable to ask them to just entirely do away Income Tax (which was supposed to be a temporary measure)?

    If they were to pair this with supporting a private healthcare system (since our current one is abused), a increase in property taxes to cover municipal infrastructure and education, and a decrease in the amount all our politicians make, and increase the GST back to 7% while keeping PST at the same levels, there should be more than enough money in everyones pockets.

    I know that if I wasn't losing out on 30% of my paycheque, I'd definitely be out there buying a car, making plans to buy a home sooner and using my money to purchase goods.
  606. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Ontario Man...you sure must live a dreary life! What a drudge! I was pulling Vern's chain, you idiot!
  607. Colin Baker from Canada writes: What is occurring in our government is mirrored in this and every other comment thread I've ever read. Every party is so desperate for power that they would sell their own mothers to form a government, from creating a poorly conceived and likely do nothing coalition, to petitioning a relic of an increasingly distant past to delay our government in the face of one of the world’s worst economic crisis&8217;s to date. Criticizingall opposition parties until it proves beneficial to jump into bed for a small moment to screw someone else over. Similarly every third post is so concerned with bashing the other party(s), complaining, slandering and criticizing. Instead we should be chastising our entire government, from Dion/Ignatieff, Harper, Duceppe and Layton, for this fiasco in a time where solidarity on a national scale, from all citizens of Canada, is so needed. Yet here we are a microcosm of our own government, bickering over who spilt the milk, while nobody cleans it up.
  608. Karen Morris from Toronto, Canada writes: If Ignatieff can't get Harper to extend and deepen EI benefits NOW (not several months from now to only 5 weeks more coverage at the same present low level of benefits), then this Government needs to be toppled. I heard on the news this morning that another couple here in Canada with a large family made a suicide pact and carried it out, after both parents had lost their jobs. On commenting pages about the budget, one woman talked about losing her job while the Tories diddled around last November with their 'pre-budget statement'. This woman's EI benefits have now run out and all she has to fall back on while looking for work will be $510/month in welfare. Her rent is $600. She won't be qualified for any of the 'retraining' programs (which are reported to require an employer sponsor and require many layers of time-delaying paperwork) Harper has proposed, as she no longer qualifies for EI. These Tories do not grasp that when the money is gone, people die. Increasing the amount of EI coverage and extending it to run through to at least 2010 is a first-order priority. If the remainder of the 'stimulus' package actually works, people will naturally begin moving from EI and into the stability of jobs that can meet their living expenses. This Government, or its replacement, needs to amend the EI program so that Canadians who are out of work through no fault of their own CAN be protected. As it is 40% of Canadians cannot qualify for EI because of the way the rules are written. The callousness and cruelty of this government's stance on EI, particularly at this time, is horrific and grossly shameful. SHAME. Topple them.
  609. Ontario Man from Canada writes: Don, what does pride have to do with drawing UIC? It is an insurance program. The users pay for it, similar to life insurance.

    Whould you not cash a life insurance policy that listed you as the beneficiary because of pride?
  610. Johnny Test from Canada writes: Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes:

    The E.I. system needed some systemic help to get people through this economic mess we are in. For many even having to go the E.I. office is embarrassing and you want to send them to the welfare office. Not a very caring or practical suggestion Don.

    The Liberals are worried about the tax cuts and what impact will they have on the deficit on the one hand and ironically then turn around and suggest changes to the EI system which will rollback changes THEY made to it. These changes would probably increases the deficit even more . I will have to wait and see what Ignatieff says about this contradiction
  611. Sam Courtney from Canada writes: Mr. Igantieff take this government down. Now. The longer that the cancer that is Mr. Harper is allowed to exist, the more damage the country will suffer in the long haul. Mr. Harper is a maligant tumour that will metastasize unless action is taken now. The course he has placed this country on will lead to invariably to conflict and dissolution of the federation down the road. He is not a leader.
  612. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Ontario Man. I don't have a problem with people collecting, if they've paid into it. I never qualified most of my working life, because I was self employed. There were a couple of times I would have qualified for welfare...wouldn't do it though...that was a pride thing...I just worked 2 jobs.

    Actually, I'd like to do away with EI entirely.... replace it with II. ie. An Income Insurance plan. Operated as a separate entity outside the Government coffers, it would be a far better thing for workers.

    But, that's a common sense proposal. No lefty would go along with it. :-)
  613. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Moderator,

    Sorry for my first posting last night, didn't realise HTML not permitted. Can you email my posting back to me (approx. 0130 am Wednesday) and I'll clean it up and re-post.

    I had some really good points, unfortunately memory not sufficient to recreate.
  614. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: Don: Sometimes you are the rear end of an equine. If you knew how hard this person works you would be giving kudo's not mean spirited rhetoric.
  615. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Sally Struthers from Canada writes: YAY! A tax break on my home renos!!! Now if only I could AFFORD home renos.... ooops guess it's not so great
    ----------------------------------------------
    You're being a little selfish. You can't, but may can and will carry out home renos which will help areas like forestry. Heck I may even up grade our kitchen after talking about it for the last 10 years.
  616. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Uh Karen. here in Canada? I didn't hear about that one. However, there WAS a couple in California did that. You sure you haven't mixed them up dear? Maybe need a new battery for your hearing aid? :-)
  617. Jake The Snake from Canada writes: I see where I will benefit. I see where others won't.

    Honestly, I was going to be spending anyway, but I will modestly increase my spending as a result to take advantage of a tax break. The result maybe an extra month of work for a few people. Multiply it by the number of people in my position and it will help the trades along. How much? That's speculation.

    Nice to see infrastructure money I hope the communities who tap into funding use it where it's needed most ie. roads, bridges etc. and not build things like hockey arenas.

    The working poor didn't get enough help, they rarely do. Low income seniors are screwed. EI still needs to be fixed some more.

    But hey who couldn't pick apart a budget. Fish in a barrel.

    At the same time the cynicism comes from what what Harper and Flakerty tried to pull on Canadians 2 months ago. What a difference a political life scare makes. Overall it once again confirms that Harper is no better than what he railed against for years in his conservative political and lobby bubble. He became what he loathed. Now wear it Stevie.
  618. Malcolm Thistle from Canada writes: One of the great things about this budget furor is that the fringe parties, the Bloc and NDP, but particularly the NDP, have been marginalized. Their desperate reach for power under the Dion coalition showed a remarkable disdain for the will of the people and presented them in full public view as extremists no more worthy of consideration by the majority than the consideration they give to the marjority. Harpers repudiation of them reinforced that view and their rush to give reject the budget before hardly reading it entrenched that perception further. Ignatieff realizes this and is playing into it by avoiding the coalition and by creating the perception that he is taking the time to read the budget and propose amendments. In this respect both Harper and Ignatieff are unnatural allies and have something in common - marginalize the extremeists and fight over the middle-of-the-road ourselves improving the chance of both to get a majority. Look for Harper and Ignatieff to dance together - Ignatieff to propose amendments, Harper to adapt them, and the two to congratulate each other for co-operating and putting the country first. I have watched Canadian politics for years and have never been more certian that we are witnessing the incipient stages of the demise of the NDP at the federal level. They deserve it for being such scumbags.
  619. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evil Evey! :-) Call a spade a spade! That's horse's a$$! Quit being so damned politically correct! :-)

    As I said earlier, perhap's this person has fallen through a crack. So, fight! Get a lawyer! Contact her/his MP and MPP!

    Just don't friggin' whine about fairness!

    When the going gets tough, the tough get going!
  620. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    It is ironic that the PC's have proposed extending EI benefits back to where they were before the liberals stole those 5 weeks from working Canadians to balance the budget.
  621. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: What a great budget! Canadians who earn over $80,000 and the foreigners who own our industry do great don't they? They really need this money. *** John Doucette, why don't you check the facts before you spout off? If you read the budget docs you would know the facts. Tax Relief1 for Individuals by Family Income Group, 2009 Average Tax Relief in 2009 GST Personal Income Tax Total Total Family Tax Relief as a Share Income To Date Budget 2009 of Net Tax Paid2 (dollars) (per cent) Less than 15,000 130 95 147 372 100 15,000 – 30,000 280 201 168 649 53 30,000 – 45,000 400 444 247 1,092 31 45,000 – 60,000 510 629 356 1,494 23 60,000 – 80,000 630 787 473 1,890 20 80,000 – 100,000 770 903 614 2,287 17 100,000– 50,000 960 1,036 717 2,714 14 Over 150,000 1,640 1,241 887 3,768 7 Taxpayers making $30,000 get 53% tax relief compared to the 14% tax off for $80,000 of income. The tax relief provides a much larger percentage reduction for taxpayers in the lower income category.
  622. steve allan from Canada writes: Karen Morris from Toronto - I think the drama you're referring to is the one that occurred in Los Angeles yesterday. Both parents were dismissed from their jobs at a hospital. They made a pact to kill themselves and their five children.

    It's the third such case to occur in the L.A. area in the last month.
  623. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: Stan L
    When I see the national media put the Liberals on the spot about this budget, pointing out all the good things in it, I know it's a Liberal budget.
    Iggy's getting cheeky
  624. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Just quit BS'ing Evey! If the person lives in Ottawa, there's just no way he/she can't find work! Sure, may be a Wal-Mart greeter, or a burger flipper....the point is, there's work there for those that want it!
  625. Chris Green from St. Catharines, Canada writes: Let me first say that I am sensitive to the need for job creation in this economy. Let me also say that I am sensitive to the need for infrastructure. I will also say that I completely understand the link between job creation and creation of new infrastructure. However, if the economy is to rebound, sending Canadians out to patch roads, build bridges and hold “slow and stop” signs (all noble and valuable jobs in Canada)are not the ways to stimulate this country and this economy. Moreover, this budget expects these same workers to take their money and turn to their spouse and say “hey sweetie, you know what I think we should do during this time of recession and economic uncertainty? Let’s sink $30,000 into the house we can barely afford and put new carpet and a sun room on.” Why is the government not looking to support those who are trying to purchase a house for the first time, the same people that will be filling their homes with appliances, electronics, new furnaces and other economically stimulating purchases? Or what about the seniors or 50 population that are unsure about their retirements and pensions and if they can afford to keep their homes and the lives they have been living. This budget creates jobs, but it does nothing to create the knowledge based economy provided by Post-Secondary Education can provide. They have decided to put infrastructure to the University and Colleges but not to student’s access to education or the resources to enrich it. This budget does address concerns of job creation, but as for a stimulus for the economy this does little in creating the sense of security and hopes of prosperity that Canadians needed.
  626. Dale Brown from Victoria, Canada writes: One must have great sympathy for Canadian conservatives. This budget has left them in a twisted, mentally anguished, schizophrenic state. Their own dear right-wing big 'C' Conservative government in Ottawa has just brought in the most free spending, big government budget this country has ever seen. Canadian conservatives end up having to accuse the oposition of actually bringing in this budget - 'Iggy and Jack you made me murder my mother, I did not really want to do it'. They are much alike their think-alike Republican counterparts in the U.S., who unable to face thirty years of Republican financial mismanagement, accuse a handful of Acorn activists and twenty year old anti-discrimination legislation for causing the sub-prime mortgage mess.
  627. james greystone from Canada writes: no wonder don adams is so hard hearted, he's a pensioner! easy to tell others with his little birdie chest all rounded with pride, 'i'd never take e.i.!' pensioners on their sweet pensions don't have e.i. adams, with his little birdie heart swelling with pride boasts of having done it all for 42 years and will do anything, as all others must do if they wish to have his blessing, anything rather than accept a government handout.
    it's not a hand out, birdbrain, they've paid for it!
    the 'conservatives' must hate this budget.
  628. lafontaine louis from laval, Canada writes: Ignatieff?? never elected , party with 20% something support .... who care about him !!
  629. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Imagine. Iggy voting for Harper's elected government.

    And for the 44th time believing it is the best government for Canada at this time.

    Who would have thunk?

    A steady hand on Canada's tiller and no Liberal or Separatist or what's their name hands in her till.

    A good thing.
  630. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    It's time to cut it off Steve, you have already gone way too far. Flushing 80 Billion down the toilet to prevent an election is a betrayl of Canada. It's time to put the coalition to the polls.
  631. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: james greystone from Canada writes: no wonder don adams is so hard hearted, he's a pensioner!

    Yepper Jamie. I'm a pensioner. I get the huge sum of $ 493 a month from CPP! :-) Sweet pension, isn't it? :-)
  632. Dom Bevilacqua from Toronto, Canada writes: This budget has some good things like tax relief but the infrastrutcture spending will drive the whole country into financial abyss. The dollars created by IOUs need to matched by the takers with more IOUs. Why does ontario need to extend the 407. The current section of teh 407 carries little traffic. The communities will be put under pressure to spend money they don't have within the govenments short time frames. This is crazy.
  633. steve allan from Canada writes: Either the Tories bring in major amendments to this budget or they will soon be squawking from the opposition benches.
  634. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Uncle Fester from Canada writes: 'It is ironic that the PC's have proposed extending EI benefits back to where they were before the liberals stole those 5 weeks from working Canadians to balance the budget. '

    Uncle, I find it ironic that you still fail to grasp why the Liberals dropped those 5 weeks in the first place (HINT: it's the deficit, stupid). Given that the Liberals enjoyed a couple more majorities after that move, I can only conclude that the majority of Canadians approved of this move (but not, apparently, you).

    Uncle, given that you were recently ridiculing Bob Rae for his past stimulus spending practice, you must be livid with the CPC right now, eh?
  635. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberal$ are still trying to sell Mr Trudeau's vision of Canada.

    Tax cuts and money for hockey arenas are taking them further and further away from this vision.
  636. J M M from Canada writes: Layton wants a cabinet seat so bad he will turn his back on Canadians, he seems to think with a coalition the G.G. will give them the key to the counrty. He doesn't know that. He is all for power as is Duceppe. Danny Williams is on his hate pills again. Its interesting how people want the government to pay for every thing but don't want to work with the government to get thru' this world wide economy melt down. People, stop whining and get your support behind your government and help, it will pay off in the long run.
  637. Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: Tell the pompous prick, Ignatieff, to go straight to hell. Support the budget or vote it down. Either there will be a radical left wing coalition that will not survive but will tear Canada apart given there is virtually zero Liberal and NDP support outside of Atlantic Canada and the Golden (soon to be Rust) Triangle, or there will be an election resulting in a Conservative majority. Stop playing your stupid Liberal political games, Ignatieff. Time to fish or cut bait. Pull the trigger.
  638. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes: Now, if it were tax increases and money for Cricket Clubs, now we would be getting closer to Trudeau's vision
  639. dave canfor from Barrie, Canada writes: I guess no one can answer a simple question, where or who is the money for deficits/debt borrowed from and who gets the interest????? All the other talk is secondary.
  640. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evil Evelyn.... this person you're talking about in Ottawa. Just graduated 4 years ago? Young, then, healthy. Well, there's a snow storm going on in Ottawa..... expecting up to 25 cms. There's an opportunity for the person...get off their fat a$$ and go shovel snow! Lots of seniors would pay to have their walk and drive cleared out! And, it's all cash money! No tax to pay!
  641. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Uncle Fester from Canada writes: '...It's time to put the coalition to the polls. '

    Uncle, if you had been paying more attention in your civics class, you'd remember that in our parliamentary democracy, coalitions are decided solely by the federal riding representatives (i.e. your MP).

    Don't approve of the coalition? Write your MP. Simply squawking about coalitions here changes nothing.
  642. true conservative from Canada writes: Beer and Popcorn - actually I think Iggy's taking a page from Harper's playbook. He made the Tories bend to his will a little with this budget and now he's going to see if they'll take a few more steps.

    I've been saying all along that without Dion to prop him up, Harper is out of his league. Oh well, I guess the Harper-fans will still love him after he brings in another decade of Liberal mis-rule.
  643. Rick La Rose from Ottawa, Canada writes: Wow look at you.. yes all of you. One side claims that it's the Conservatives fault and the other side blames the Coalition. Had it been up to Harper alone the deficit would have been even greater (Corporate tax cuts he wanted to put in place would have given us twice the deficit). But the big lie in the deficit is not the money being promised to help Canadians (as the coalition wanted) but rather the money going to the banks. Yes.. that whole chunk of change going to the banks in order to secure loans and get them giving out credit again is the real reason for the large deficit. This was a Harper and Coalition idea. This is a Bank bailout (when our banks don't really need it). Stop fighting amongst each other like packs of rabid dogs. you can each get your way individually in your own lives if you just for once work together.. sigh.
  644. Evelyn Campbell from Canada writes: Don: You assume much. I told you how this person did not qualify for E.I. and you want to send them to the welfare office. I was making the point that people do not necessarily qualify for benefits even if they have been working. You then spin it off into I have always worked, well whoop do doo! So have many others on this board but they still understand that life is not perfect.
    The only reason this person even went to apply and believe me it hurt her pride to do so, was covering all basis unless work could not be secured. She took two Mcjobs and is looking for a better one.

    As for political correctness, perhaps you could exercise it and a little compassion and quit being so acerbic and judgemental.
  645. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G&M does a super job with the editing function. The editor turns columns of data, with headings, into a jumbled mess by removing spaces and tabs..
  646. james greystone from Canada writes: mr. adams, those who collect cpp have comfortable pensions. no one, unless they're on early retirement, is expected to live on less than $500 per month.
    i wouldn't say you're not telling the truth. i would say you're not telling all of the story.
  647. Karen Morris from Toronto, Canada writes: Colin Baker from Canada, I totally agree, regarding the inappropriate surfacing of pettiness and partisan leanings in many postings. The individuals who indulge in this do not grasp the the seriousness of the matters at hand, nor do they appear to grasp that the consequences of not structuring a stimulus and protection plan for Canadians NOW is necessary in order to preserve Canada as we know it. Perhaps some of these individuals consider themselves to be unaffected by the lives of those less fortunate. They choose to be unaware how much of the lifestyle they enjoy is supported by individuals who earn wages that do not allow them the luxury of stowing savings that can carry them through 8 months to a year of a severe recession. Canada cannot function on the basis of a wealthy upper middle class and the wealthy coasting through this recession to the finish line. And the lines of economic class bitterness will be deeply drawn, and not soon forgotten, if the Canadian people allow the Federal government to coldly toss to the curb the middle and working classes during this recession. The 'retraining' programs have been well documented as being expensive shams, for which 40% of Canadians who do not qualify for EI under current rules wouldn't be eligible anyway. And what about the Canadians who do qualify for EI who have lost their jobs and their EI run out while the Tories diddled with a 'pre-budget statement' and then prorogued Parliament? The mass of working Canadians cannot wait until 5 months from now (as Harper proposes) to have EI coverage extended over a period of time that will carry them through this recession. And this government has not even understood that EI benefits need to be increased so that they do cover reasonable monthly living expenses. They should be at least $3000/month for an individual.
  648. Ron Preston from Tecumseh, Canada writes: If I were the Conservatives I would not accept big chances and force the Liberals to make a decision and ever vote for the budget or not and force an election.
    Prediction:Liberals would loose seats in Parliament
    ndp and separatists would be left with much fewer seats.
    Canadians are tired of parties that turn down a budget before tabled.
    Canadians are tired of the bloc that represents one province having any say in the House.
  649. Greg Out West from Canada writes: steve allan from Canada writes: Either the Tories bring in major amendments to this budget or they will soon be squawking from the opposition benches.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Maybe that's where they want to sit. That is until this recession passes.
  650. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: 'Tell the pompous prick, Ignatieff, to go straight to hell. ...'

    Why don't you tough guy?

    Here's his contact info:

    gnatieff.M@parl.gc.ca
    (416) 251-5510

    Let us all know how your conversation goes....
  651. Mark S Noel from Canada writes: The world economy is self destructing and instead of working for Canadian's the Liberal Party is more concerned with how they can get envolopes stuff with cash to PMs before the next election. How could anyone with a moral conscience could support these crooks.
  652. richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: Mr. Byer and to all Tory trolls on this thread:

    1. The coalition alternative is in your face as long as this Parliament continues. Mr. Harper is on a very short leash because he has permanently lost the TRUST of two major parties: the NDP and the Bloc don't believe him.

    2. It is a matter of time before the Conservatives open their mouth and insert their foot, again. Whether it's a refusal to consider budget amendments proposed by the combined opposition or some other folly.

    3. Mr. Harper rolled the dice last September, knowing that the impending economic meltdown would ruin any chance at a majority later on. He lied through his teeth about the state of our economy (and Dion's Green 'shaft') but lost anyway.

    4. Mr. Ignatieff will be Canada's next PM, and it WON'T take an election to do it.

    5. The financial state of the Liberal party is therefore totally irrelevant.

    6. So is the Bloc's agreement to vote with the Libs and NDP on money bills. This is not a 'separatist coalition, sedition or treason.' Quite the opposite. Imagine, the Bloc working collaboratively with two other parties, for the good of Quebec and the rest of Canada.
  653. true conservative from Canada writes: Ron Preston - Quebec is not tired of the Bloc - that's the problem. And probably the NDP will be punished for voting a budget down unseen, but that means more votes for the Liberals, not the Tories. Add to that, the LPC now have a more charismatic leader than Dion (of course that's not setting the bar very high) and you get the realization that Harper cannot go to the polls right now.
  654. john dancy from Canada writes: Compos Mentis , Mr Rae first gave the teachers 30 Billion to fix their pension plan and then asked for rae days to help pay for it. It was not stimulation. And when you throw money at the problem it just comes back. The teachers pension plan is going broke again.
  655. john dancy from Canada writes: true conservative , Mr Harper would love to go top the polls. The liberal party is broke that is why they dont want an election. Give them a year and we will have an election.
  656. Denis Pageau from Gatineau, Canada writes: I think the Liberals should vote against the budget. I don't think the conservatives have understood what is the economy of the 21st century. It's green.

    As a business strategy it is a win win situation. If they form a coalition government they weaken the conservatives and get the reward of governing. If the go into an election, they have a chance of being elected as a majority government. If not, they will surely do better than the last one. This will bring more money each year as per the financing process.
  657. G H from Calgary, Canada writes: Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: G&M does a super job with the editing function. The editor turns columns of data, with headings, into a jumbled mess by removing spaces and tabs..

    _______________________

    If you compose your missive in word, then copy it, go back to your browser session and HIT F5 to resfresh your session...then paste into the comment box....your formating will remain....most of the time... :) The problem is that sessions time out, so you gotta refresh.

    On the Busget, Iggy will propose some changes, Harper will accept some reject others and the budget will pass. Jack and Jilles are left out in the cold.
  658. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: 'Tell the pompous prick, Ignatieff, to go straight to hell. ...'

    Why don't you tough guy?

    Here's his contact info:

    gnatieff.M@parl.gc.ca
    (416) 251-5510

    Let us all know how your conversation goes....

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Compos, if you're going to give information to folks, at least give them the right info!

    That's ignatieff.m@parl.gc.ca :-)
  659. Serge LeVert-Chiasson from Waterloo, Canada writes: There are plenty of other things the Conservatives could have done to set Canada in the right direction. First, they could have fixed the EI rules that are currently not providing the right mixture of safety and inclusion to those who have lost their jobs. Second, an easy change that would have immediately impacted the economy and helped the most vulnerable would have been a change in % of tax deduction of donations. We all know that charities work hard to ensure those who fall through the cracks receive additional attention and they spend money right away. Third, we could have placed additional infrastructure money in retrofitting federal, provincial and municipal governments into more energy efficient places. I see this as less of a cost than an investment. Many of these changes have internal rate of returns (IRR) in the high teens. This would reduce our green house gas emissions, improve infrastructure and ultimately save money to the tax payer. Finally, the conservative government could have committed to improved public transportation, especially, high speed trains between major cities (i.e. Windsor corridor) Could the conservative government spent money more wisely? The answer is a definite yes.

    Serge from Waterloo
  660. Matt C from GTA, Canada writes: To me, this is just Liberal chest thumping. They want to be seen as the ones that 'fixed' the budget, even if they're legitimate concerns have mostly been dealt with already.

    I thought the Conservatives were supposed to be the game players?

    The NDP and the Bloc will vote 'no' regardless, which is incredibly childish and counter-productive. Vote on the basis of what it put forth, not on grudges. I wish all parties/MPs would do that, Liberals and C's included.

    I see no reason to bring the government down on this budget. It looks like it went in the right direction to me.
  661. Uncle Fester from Canada writes:
    Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Uncle Fester from Canada writes: '...It's time to put the coalition to the polls. '

    Uncle, if you had been paying more attention in your civics class, you'd remember that in our parliamentary democracy, coalitions are decided solely by the federal riding representatives (i.e. your MP).

    Don't approve of the coalition? Write your MP. Simply squawking about coalitions here changes nothing.

    ....................Unless a PM has been elected by the people AS prime minister the GG's long and repeatedly established precident is to send us to the polls within 6 months. If the coalition takes over we WILL be having an election by July '09. AND Ignatieff will be running as it's leader.
  662. Anyone but Ignatieff; Rae and LeBlanc. or Duceppe for the new Liberal Leader. from Canada writes: The Liberals hate tax cuts. Their policy is tax and spend and give to their friends.
  663. Vivaldo Latoche from Ottawa, Canada writes: Well, well, well! What else is new with the Official Opposition and the two minor parties? We should not expect to give much credit for their focus on the 2009 Federal Budget.

    First, Michael Ignattieff, the new leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, is in the process of soldifying his leadership. Therefore, he is not going to put down the buget and create a political problem for himself and the LPC. In addition, 75 percent of the measures that budget has is what the LPC has been preaching for some time. So the 2009 Budget will pass.

    Second, Gilles Duceppe, the Bloc leader, is not going to support a budget that keeps the country together. The sad part for him is that the budget is not giving him any ammunition at all. So who cares what he says. Only the separatists will listening to him.

    Third, Jack Layton, the NDP leader, has lost his opportunity to govern the country because this time his 'Coalition Dream' is gone out of hif hands. It is too bad for a promissing politican to continue thinking that 'Socialism' is good for Canada. What was good for the beginning of the 20th century is not longer good for the 21st century. Can anyone wake up Jack Layton and tell him that this is the 21st century?
  664. Vivaldo Latoche from Ottawa, Canada writes: Well, well, well! What else is new with the Official Opposition and the two minor parties? We should not expect to give much credit for their focus on the 2009 Federal Budget.

    First, Michael Ignattieff, the new leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, is in the process of soldifying his leadership. Therefore, he is not going to put down the buget and create a political problem for himself and the LPC. In addition, 75 percent of the measures that budget has is what the LPC has been preaching for some time. So the 2009 Budget will pass.

    Second, Gilles Duceppe, the Bloc leader, is not going to support a budget that keeps the country together. The sad part for him is that the budget is not giving him any ammunition at all. So who cares what he says. Only the separatists will listening to him.

    Third, Jack Layton, the NDP leader, has lost his opportunity to govern the country because this time his 'Coalition Dream' is gone out of hif hands. It is too bad for a promissing politican to continue thinking that 'Socialism' is good for Canada. What was good for the beginning of the 20th century is not longer good for the 21st century. Can anyone wake up Jack Layton and tell him that this is the 21st century?
  665. Ed Long from Canada writes: Iggy doesn't know whether to crap or steal third base.

    He's stuck.

    He cannot just vote for the budget because he will look like a noodle.

    He needs some revisions but cannot immediately think of any because it is a Liberal budget. Rant about deficits when he knows his will be larger?

    Vote against the budget and get destroyed at the polls. Even he has said Canadians do not want another election.

    Vote for it and have Premiers like Campbell behind you. Vote against and have Danny Williams on your side.

    Gee ..... tough decision.

    Harper has done it again. This time the Liberals will ask for a prorogued Parliament.
  666. true conservative from Canada writes: john dancy - then why are the Tories the ones phoning their members asking for money? The Liberals were broke because no one wanted to shell out money for Dion. They will pay for Iggy.
  667. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Rick La Rose from Ottawa; ***

    rickie, you are not being truthful by claiming the banks received a bailout. In fact, you are being misleading. No taxpayer dollars were given to the banks. The mortgage purchase, as you know, was cash for CHMC mortgages, a business transaction to provide liquidity to give the banks money for consumer or business loans. If anything, the government may come out on top with the mortgage interest received.
  668. Ed Long from Canada writes: Iggy doesn't know whether to crap or steal third base.

    He's stuck.

    He cannot just vote for the budget because he will look like a noodle.

    He needs some revisions but cannot immediately think of any because it is a Liberal budget. Rant about deficits when he knows his will be larger?

    Vote against the budget and get destroyed at the polls. Even he has said Canadians do not want another election.

    Vote for it and have Premiers like Campbell behind you. Vote against and have Danny Williams on your side.

    Gee ..... tough decision.

    Harper has done it again. This time the Liberals will ask for a prorogued Parliament.
  669. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evey...ME? Exercise political correctness? Hahahahaha! Been fighting that shyt since it started! It draws down people's effectiveness.... makes them weak!

    James, I took early retirement....that's the amount of CPP I get. Yeah, we do have other income. My wife still works (her choice) and we have RRSP's and assets we built up over the years..... so, whatever we need, over and above her salary, we draw from RRSP's (which are down 40 odd percent right now!) The point I'm making, little buddy, is yeah, times are tough....but they've been tough before. I've been through 3 recessions..... but survived. As I said earlier, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. The weak, whine!
  670. true conservative from Canada writes: john dancy - then why are the Tories the ones phoning their members asking for money? The Liberals were broke because no one wanted to shell out money for Dion. They will pay for Iggy.
  671. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Rick La Rose from Ottawa; ***

    rickie, you are not being truthful by claiming the banks received a bailout. In fact, you are being misleading. No taxpayer dollars were given to the banks. The mortgage purchase, as you know, was cash for CHMC mortgages, a business transaction to provide liquidity to give the banks money for consumer or business loans. If anything, the government may come out on top with the mortgage interest received.
  672. Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Evey...ME? Exercise political correctness? Hahahahaha! Been fighting that shyt since it started! It draws down people's effectiveness.... makes them weak!

    James, I took early retirement....that's the amount of CPP I get. Yeah, we do have other income. My wife still works (her choice) and we have RRSP's and assets we built up over the years..... so, whatever we need, over and above her salary, we draw from RRSP's (which are down 40 odd percent right now!) The point I'm making, little buddy, is yeah, times are tough....but they've been tough before. I've been through 3 recessions..... but survived. As I said earlier, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. The weak, whine!
  673. true conservative from Canada writes: Matt C - Harper was never the chess master that the media puffed him up to be - it's easy to win a game when your opponent doesn't know how to play. Sadly it is too late to replace him before he leads the Liberals to a majority govt. Maybe Danny Williams or Jim Prentice will lead the CPC to victory in subsequent elections.
  674. peter clarke from Canada writes: Answer for dave canfor from Barrie. At the present time mostly China, some countries from the middle east and some from Europe seem to be lending both Canada and the USA the money for governments to keep operating. As such these countries also receive the interest that Canada and the USA has to pay then for this money.....Keep smiling...
  675. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: john dancy from Canada writes: '...The teachers pension plan is going broke again.''

    And what does that have to with Bob Rae? The problems with the OTPF has nothing to do with him.

    'Some 108,000 retirees were paid about twice as much in 2007 as the 170,000 active members and provincial taxpayers contributed. That puts a strain on pension reserves, and requires managers to take fewer risks.' (http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/408941)

    Consider that in 2007, the OTPF was voted Public Pension Plan Investor of the Year (http://tinyurl.com/cxa7u9). Again, long after Bob Rae left office.
  676. Sir Robert Borden from Canada writes:
    With such drastic changes to the economic climate (ie. none of these bozos claimed to see it coming) seems the only rational thing to do is have an election.

    Perhaps this time we can get some govenment with a little better idea of what they are doing and where we are going.
  677. Island Man from Victoria from Canada writes: Not one thing for seniors investments. There could have been an extension of the dividend tax credit to RRSP's to put individuals on par with the big pension plans..NO. There could have been an extension to the Income Trust conversion..NO. Harper does not care about the damage done by his broken promise to seniors. He has a chance to repair some damage and he once again ignored seniors.
  678. john dancy from Canada writes: richard sharp , the Liberals are going to vote for the budget. The Bloc will come running to support it to as long as we spend lots of money on them. The Conservatives and the Liberals are working together as a coalition and they will tell the Bloc to go away. When the two parties work together , with 75% support of Canadian votes , the Bloc and the NDP are useless.
  679. Mimi Williams from Edmonton, Canada writes: Mark S Noel from Canada writes: The world economy is self destructing and instead of working for Canadian's the Liberal Party is more concerned with how they can get envolopes stuff with cash to PMs before the next election. How could anyone with a moral conscience could support these crooks.

    ______________________________________________

    The only PM that I know of that was handed cash was Mulroney. He even admits it, although he disagrees with Schreiber as to just how much cash. Do you only read the newspapers every second day or something?
  680. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: '...Compos, if you're going to give information to folks, at least give them the right info!

    That's ignatieff.m@parl.gc.ca :-) '

    Good catch Don! I'll have to either work on my cutting & paste skills, or learn to proofread my posts before submitting.

    Have a great day!
  681. Kim Morton from Canada writes: Time to quit the game playing and get on with running the country. The Libs will vote for the budget or not show up for the vote. They can neither afford another election or be held responsible for causing one when there is serious damage happening to the economy. Taliban Jack will vote against any budget no matter how big the deficit simply because he does not have custody of the chequebook. The Bloc will also vote against it because 100%of the money is not going to Quebec.
  682. john dancy from Canada writes: true conservative , You always ask for money when there is a crises. And you are right in a year they will have enough money for an election.
    Until then they will be working together. Only good for Canada....
  683. richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: Mr. Ignatieff's press conference has just been postponed until 11:15 am. Rumour has it he's huddled with the separatists and socialists. Known to more reasonable people as freely-elected representaives who have every right to press for a progressive coalition alternative to the tough-timers.

    Maybe Messrs. Layton and Duceppe are saying, it's now or never, big guy. Who knows? It sure is fun!
  684. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Sir Robert Borden from Canada writes:

    Perhaps this time we can get some govenment with a little better idea of what they are doing and where we are going.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A government with a little better idea of what they are doing ? Any thoughts on who ?

    Here's a hint, they're all a bunch of idiots and an election would change nothing. It would just delay current spending by a couple of months and cost about halh a billion. Good plan Sir Robert. Maybe we should look at getting new posters that have a better idea of what they're saying.
  685. Common Cents for Dollars from Vancouver, Canada writes: The Liberal's determination to maneuver for a political edge when they should support the budget and progress so far is revolting. The Liberals do not have the base support for a majority, so an election is out. In fact, running an election on the basis that they refused to support the economic revitalization plan stands a good chance of playing right into the Conservative's hands, giving them a majority after an election. The spin 'The Liberals are stopping us from fixing the economy' is a pretty powerful platform. The Liberals should dislike the budget, but support it. During the summer, when the time is right and if the programs fail, trigger an election, and a Liberal Majority will be there almost guaranteed. Canadians want action, and if the Liberals can be painted as the 'party that delayed action', you are toast in an election.
  686. Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: Isn't that cute? Iggy 'demanding' changes to the budget.

    Someone should tell Iggy that being over a barrel, is a bad position to negotiate from.

    You know Iggy....negotiate. Does a partisan pinhead 'demand' or does a leader 'negotiate'?
  687. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Don Adams wrote:

    BTW Vernie..... there's a real good pill on the market....called Lorazapam..... get your Dr. to proscribe it for you...it's a great calmer downer..... will allow you to sleep at night instead of posting all night! :-)
    --------------

    Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes: Hmmmmm. The Government has basically brought in a Liberal budget,

    * Posted 28/01/09 at 3:57 AM EST |
    ------------------

    Doesn't seem to be working for you Donnie, or are you just mis-remembering ???
  688. john dancy from Canada writes: Compos Mentis , He should have fixed the rules at the time not just given out the cash. Same here this week. All money but no new laws to make sure it does not happen again. No investment in the future. We could come out of this world leaders in banking and environmental technologies.
    The world would want what we have. Mr Rae caused this by distracting the government with the coalition. Mr Harper made his plan to make the Liberals get rid of TWO leaders and give him someone who would work with him, Mr Ignatieff.
  689. pole cat from Canada writes: If i was harper i wouldnt change anything about the budget and would also tell iggy and his unsober finance critic to take a flying f@$k.
  690. Beer and Popcorn from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberal$ are desperately against tax cuts - they see anything which takes away from the money they get to spread around to their friends as an act of war..
  691. The Innocent Ghost Of Patrick Whelan from Canada writes: The Conservatives are predicting that the recession will end when?

    In One year?

    If Harpoon was dead wrong about the economy two months ago when every grade eight dropout knew what was going on, who will believe their predictions for next year?

    These guys couldn't predict the days of the week.

    They're so inept economically that they had to steal the Liberals' budget.

    Why would Canadians want ersatz Liberals when we've got so many of the real ones standing around doing nothing?
    .
  692. No Name Necessary from Canada writes: blaa blaa blaa.

    this is so tiresome. When the Conservatives were prepared to take a wait and see approach (as our economy/banks are in good shape compared to other countries) all the opposition parties were bellyaching that the Conservatives didn't care....they were clueless about the impending doom and gloom. Now that they've decided to spend the money the opposition parties wanted, they are spending too much for the Liberals....and we know the Liberals would have spent more had they been in power and the blockheads and socialists are still not happy and decided ahead of the budget to reject it anyway! Do these two parties even deserve to sit in parliament? They just want a coalition gov't because they KNOW that they'll never govern otherwise. They don't give a crap about Canadians.
  693. true conservative from Canada writes: john dancy - actually, the guy on the phone didn't say that I should donate because there's going to be an election. He wanted me to donate because the Liberals were going to form a coalition with the Bloc. I pointed out that (as you have predicted) the LPC would probably support the budget - although I refrained from saying that this is because Harper is going to dance like a cracked out monkey for Iggy. I got the impression that the phoner wanted the money anyways.
  694. Sylvia Wilson from Canada writes: Know what really pisses me off...that I don't have a detailed copy of anyone's budget regardless of whether they're Liberal, Conservative or Coaliation governments. I'm seriously considering arming myself with a pitchfork, pencil and paper and marching on Ottawa in order to see the books!

    Yep, futile, I know...no way would I as a stupid taxpayer be 'allowed' to see the books or be given detailed plans of expenditures/revenue.

    Is anyone else besides me sick and tired of being played as a sap by our politicians who we stupidly place our trust!

    Surely, as Canadians, we can do better than what's currently, or in the future, voted to be in office. I'm willing to stand outside Parliament and stamp my feet if necessary to DEMAND more transparency. I've never been an activist, but this time I'm really getting angry at being played as a fool.

    Why is the electorate so gullible that they'll believe one can go from a surplus to such a large deficit from December to late January?

    All Canadians need to become more demanding that governments open their books.
  695. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: Ignatieff to support budget but with conditions

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090127/budgetliberals090128/20090128?hub=TopStories
  696. Sylvia Wilson from Canada writes: in a digital age, there's no excuse for governments not releasing detailed budget plans!
  697. john dancy from Canada writes: true conservative , parties always need money. Both of them.
    Do you think they should only get donations from us ? or from companies and organizations?
    By the way, I did not give either this time....
  698. Point Blank from Vancouver, Canada writes: I like the leaks that are being made by the Liberals to pre-announce what their plans are. Taking a page from Harper's hand book...

    If we must go into debt then we must have quarterly reports on where we are, what we've spent, to whom that money has flowed, what results/projects are moving forward as a result and what the revenue for the government looks like.

    Personally, I am still not on board with the tax cuts nor the home renovation program because it keeps too many people from benefitting from this program. But if I can be shown in real numbers that this program when taken into view of the whole budget is on balance it wouldn't be such an issue.
  699. Tax Me To Death from Regina, Canada writes: Well, great. The Liberals want to keep taxes up, raise the GST (I'm sure) put on a Carbon Tax and usurp power with Socialists and Separatists.

    Why can't ALL politicians just work together? Where is Rodney King - 'Can't we just get along'.

    I'm very concerned that people see this as a 'CON' problem - as if they caused the world Recession. I'm also concerned that people see the 'Liberals' as saviours - as if they can lift the world out of this.

    Work together, people.

    Getting people to spend helps... lower taxes will help. Infrastructure will help

    Constructive criticism will help, and hopefully Mr. Ignatief will do so, and Mr. Harper will work together with all politicians.

    ... where are my rose colored glasses...???
  700. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Jack Layton may be doing the right thing for Canada and the wrong thing for the NDP by voting against a budget that contains help for all Canadians, Jack, by nitpicking, finds fault in matters of little importance and overlooks the good parts of the budget. By opposing the budget, for partisan purposes, such as a hope for a Cabinet Post in a coalition, instead of making constructive amendments, Jack has made himself and the NDP irrevelant. The BLOC is concerned with separting from Canada and has never been relevant in federal governments.

    By making the NDP irrelevant, Layton has made the choice for voters much simpler, Liberal or Conservative. The choice of one major party or the other will help provide the stability of majority governments. Minority governments provide too much influence to fringe parties who represent only a small minority of Canadians but have the power to control the direction of government.
  701. K Benton from Moscow on the Humber, Canada writes: Hopefully there will be an open, transparent, and accountable deficit accounting program in place. Maybe the various levels of government should put up new websites for all to see just where the handouts went and how much money went to each recipient. Dream along with me. After all these are just loans aren't they???? We don't want to have to suffer through embarrassing public enquiries 5 years down the road. and we certainly don't want oddities like a 'Bailout All Recovery Fund' -- BARF. No 'BARF' money, for example, should be directed to bailout the about to become bankrupt Liberal Party.
  702. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: As of 11:21 a.m., still no sign of Ignatieff.

    Is anyone in the Liberal Party capable of holding a press conference on time?
  703. wally rabbit from Zeitgeist, Canada writes: To John Dancy-Sorry if I was alittle hard on you yesterday. Did you get a chance to have a look at any of that information?

    The 4 university degree's and masters I have mean nothing! I may as well be in kindergarten. They didn't teach me a thing about our money system and the depth of government corruption. I have been researching this stuff for well over a year(I have a very flexible job) and probably averaging 5 hours of reading a day. - I am sure I would have a triple Doctorate in 'Rothchilds, Banking and the Federal Reserve System'
    I know what I am taling about.

    One of the best site's I have found that is outside of western mainstream media is-
    www.sprword.com
    And no I have no affiliation to it at all.

    A few great books are-
    'Creature from Jekyll Island'
    'The Revolution: A Manifesto' Ron Paul
    'The Post Modern Coup' Webster Tarpley
  704. harry oakes from toronto, Canada writes: oh good....finally today we find out who will don the knee pads
  705. joseph archibald from Halifax, Canada writes: http://truenorthstrongandliberal.blogspot.com/

    has just broke the story
  706. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Gads! is Iggy ever reaming out the Harperites on TV!
  707. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter Mackay Country, Canada writes: Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: As of 11:21 a.m., still no sign of Ignatieff.

    Is anyone in the Liberal Party capable of holding a press conference on time?

    -------------------------------

    According to CBC sound problems in the National Press Gallery....
  708. John Connor from Canada writes: Island Man from Victoria from Canada writes: Not one thing for seniors investments. There could have been an extension of the dividend tax credit to RRSP's to put individuals on par with the big pension plans..NO. There could have been an extension to the Income Trust conversion..NO. Harper does not care about the damage done by his broken promise to seniors. He has a chance to repair some damage and he once again ignored seniors.
    ===================
    Dude.
    Last year.
    Income Splitting.
    Are you unhappy about that?
    Or simply dumb?
  709. Real Westerner from British Columbia, Canada writes: I dont mind spending on needed projects roads, sewers ,hydroetc but sports stadiums ,hockey arenas looks like just another waste of taxpayer $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to me
  710. Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: So the question becomes ... Will Harpo cave to Iggy's demands?
  711. true conservative from Canada writes: john dancy - no I don't think that companies or organizations (unions, churchs etc) should be allowed to donate to political parties. I did donate to the CPC last election - but I'm starting to regret it a bit. Every time something happens, I get calls or emails asking for money. Iggy replaces Dion as LPC leader? We need money. Budget coming down? We need money. It's snowing? We need money. Frankly it's a bit pathetic. Conversely the ON PC send me emails trying to get me to participate at the local level - which I think is a lot more admirable.
  712. diane marie from Canada writes: J. Kenneth Yurchuk:-- I agree with you 100%.
  713. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Will Stephen Harper get the infrastructure money out the door, or just hide it under his mattress like the Building Canada Fund ???

    Stephen Harper......Can't be trusted.
  714. pole cat from Canada writes: Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Gads! is Iggy ever reaming out the Harperites on TV! Lol cowards always yap the most before being put in there place.
  715. true conservative from Canada writes: Red Suspenders - they have no choice but to agree. They are going to refuse to give out information to the Cdn public? Yeah, that'll go over great at election time.
  716. joseph archibald from Halifax, Canada writes: Jason Roy, perhaps you aren't aware that the city of Ottawa is in the midst of strike which has backlogged streets and a winter storm. If you had listened to the news, they gave constant updates that they were in touch with Iggy, and the NATURAL FORCES OF MOTHER NATURE were slowing them down......should he have flew over the streets in his hoover car
  717. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: pole cat from Canada writes: Red Suspenders from The Big Chair, writes: Gads! is Iggy ever reaming out the Harperites on TV! Lol cowards always yap the most before being put in there place.
    ------------------

    Like your boss Harper, being a coward hiding under the GG's skirt...
  718. john dancy from Canada writes: wally rabbit , good afternoon. No worryies about yesterday. I did get a chance to do some research.
    I am just listening now....
  719. K M from Kitchener, Canada writes: Lets have an election. The public will appoint a majority to avoid a coalition - and we can back off this no-accountability spending spree - which will invite misuse of hard earned public tax dollars. Also the comments as to how small an impact person this budget represents merely justifies the concept that government spending is really only a small factor in the economy.
  720. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Island Man from Victoria from Canada writes: Not one thing for seniors investments. There could have been an extension of the dividend tax credit to RRSP's to put individuals on par with the big pension plans..NO. There could have been an extension to the Income Trust conversion..NO. Harper does not care about the damage done by his broken promise to seniors. He has a chance to repair some damage and he once again ignored seniors. ******

    Island Man from Victoria, your claim that the governement has done nothing for seniors is not true.

    The age credit increase by $2,000 ($1,000 in 2009 budget, plus the $1,000 scheduled from the 2006 Budget).

    Seniors also get the personal tax relief all taxpayers get, which is $150 to $900, depending on income.

    The income from the Tax-Free Savings Plan does not affect GIS payments.

    Along with the Pension Income Splitting for Seniors from 2007, Seniors have been done very well by the Harper government. My parents, formerly rabid NDP supporters, are now big Harper fans. They prefer pension tax fairness to high taxes. *
  721. Kenneth Yurchuk from Canada writes: I'm somewhat disappointed with Ignatieff's response to the budget. His amendment will NOT address the shortcomings of the budget, only ask for quarterly reports (which can and likely will be spin masterpieces.)

    Why not a substantial amendment that at least will deal with the EI inequity. Iggy has the whip hand but apparantly no stomach to use it. Unfortunate.
  722. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Iggy to Harper...........

    Jump monkey jump........higher....higher....

    And we're holding you to accountability too,
  723. Wayne MacKinnon from Charlottetown, Canada writes: Buddy . from Away, Canada writes: I see nothing in here to stimulate business start ups or small business. Where do you think the new jobs, new wealth, new business will come from to replace the many that will soon fail? This comment is one of the very few that makes any sense in regards to this problem we face as a nation. Not one person is taking any responsibility for what is occurring in our great country. There certainly is lots of whining,buck passing,and political posturing but no one is looking at the root of the problem. Canada is a democratic country, a country where we are still permitted the luxury of freedom of speech without fear of being assassinated for your views. Yet, there are very few of our citizens willing to take responsibility for the people we elect to run this country. We vote the M.P.'s to their lofty positions and then treat them like they are demigods. They spin the truth around like a weaver,distort the information and refuse to be accountable and we do not do anything to hold them accountable. The politicians are fear mongers and the media accomadates them by spreading all the fears, basically brainwashing the population and paralysing the people with fear and loss of their material possessions. Instead we need leaders who are conscious,who will empower the people, allow the creativity of the great people of this nation to flow,produce goods and services that can create wealth. Not bail out multi-national companies,banks,insurance companies,oil companies that do not pay their fair share in taxes - fueled by greed. Our children and grandchildren are being affected by what we do now. What are you going to tell your children and grandchildren when they look you in the eyes and ask, 'why did you let them mortgage away our future,why did you not speak up and say this is not right. We are enslaved to Big Brother.' It is not too late,all Canadians can join together as one,and say no to this bailout.
  724. john dancy from Canada writes: mike sty , yep just listening and they are working together.. A great time for Canada.
  725. joseph archibald from Halifax, Canada writes: Here is a neat game . Look on here at peoples posts that are calling Iggy a coward etc., then scan back and notice how half an hour ago they said he would be a coward ec., if he didn't support it. This isn't a forum for debate for Harper supporters, it is a forum for throwing insults. I vote Liberal. I wasn't a fan of budget, and made it known http://truenorthstrongandliberal.blogspot.com

    I think Harper did some good in this budget. Now I wonder if you people calling Iggy a coward are capable of saying anything good about him or will you prove to be just blind partisans which means you can only repeat not think
  726. marlene stobbart from High River, Canada writes: Your percentage charts were most informative. It appears Canadians personal income tax and GST, pays the largest share, the mother lode, into the Federal coffers. Yesterday the Conservative government gave a new meaning to Conservatism and this budget gave meaning to the word 'bounty.' IMHO they were held to ransom by a seemingly well planned November's onslaught for power by the other three federal parties. The Harper gov't clearly understood Canada was better financially positioned then any other country. By taking a waiting position in respect to a long term fiscal policy until the new US President came to power and learn of the financial measures changes was the wisest course, since they are Canada's largest trading power. Unfortunately, the last election Harpers gov't didn't gain the majority needed to properly govern and, instead of a shameful take over attempt a time out was called. But, yesterday this budget, well intended IMHO to appease everyone, undoubtedly appeases few. It may be the straw that broke the camel's back. As an individual who believed in our democratic political system it appears that it is either broken or never was.
  727. Armchair Politician from Kelowna, Canada writes: Let these desperadoes take their selfish whims to the people...despicable!
  728. Sylvia Wilson from Canada writes: wally rabbit from Zeitgeist.

    All the links you consider as authoritative are IMHO suspect as being conspiratorial. Try concentrating on more mainstream sources. Your name at the end, 'Zeitzeist', is from a source I wouldn't trust as being objective.

    Google is a wonderful source whenever you're looking for reliable information, free from plots, by adding 'moonbat, or conspiracy',' to your search criteria.
  729. hug rum from montreal, Canada writes: Much has been made of the increase in the tax credit for seniors for reasons of age. It should be pointed out however that this measure only benefits seniors with relatively small incomes. It does not change a thing for middle class or even lower middle class seniors on account of the income threshold attached to this particular item. What might have been of benefit to middle and especially upper middle class seniors is a reduction in the OAS clawback . As we all know, this clawback is a serious investment disincentive . Not very good when you consider that investment is what we need right now. From the point of view of encouraging investment as well as from the point of view of seniors in general therefore I would say there is not much in this budget to celebrate about.
  730. Fiat Lux from Canada writes: : *Spending that end up in debt is not the solution. Creating wealth is the solution.* Budget'09 is mostly about MarkingTime ... not ArticulatingSolution. Left-Right, Left-Right, Left-Right, AboutTurn! Budget 2009 is MarkingTime waiting for USA to recover and rescue drifting northward. He!! will freeze over before that happens as USA, according to this government, is in worst shape ... globally. Canadians wll rue the day they snubbed Mr. Dion ... I don't know what a leader is supposed to look like, but in regards to the manner in which the global crude and economy self-destructed, carbon tax would have been a moot point and pursuit of 'sustainable' economy a vision. Spending that end up in debt is not a solution. It is fraught with dangers of Canadian wealth CEAPing through our fingers, out of our pockets, out of our country. The solution is being creative, being self-reliant, being self-supporting in taking destiny into our own hands and creating wealth. We should be repatriating manufacturing we had and lost to other countries. We should be manufacturing things we used to like refrigerators, stoves, washing machines ... but better and smarter than our competitors. WeCanDo should be our credo. WindTurbines, SolarCells, HeatExchangers, MicroCommuters, MassCommuters. We should FACILITATE incubation of innovations. NanoTech, HiTech, Robotics, Fusion, BioTech, MolecularTech, WhatEverTech! This budget is fraught with dangers of BOONDOGGLE and WASTE, particularly in absence of transparency and timely documentations of to whom, where, and 4what the monies are attributed. Advocates of WisdomOfDebtFreePrudence should demand that this budget be rejected. .
  731. Karen Morris from Toronto, Canada writes: I am very disappointed that Ignatieff seems as clueless as Harper to the inadequacy of the EI proposal of the Harper government, and worse, that even this inadequate plan will not introduce a mere 5-week extension on EI benefits until 5 months from now. As someone else here pointed out, there is nothing in Harper's budget that will loosen up lending or create jobs. And I agree with Layton that Harper's condition that municipalities match the Feds' dollars if the infrastructure initiatives are going to happen, means that nothing is going to happen. Toronto certainly doesn't have the multiple millions of dollars to match this infrastructure spending with, and Harper knows that. So, there will be no jobs springing forth from infrastructure projects. From my perspective, Ignatieff is playing party politics with the well-being of the Canadian people, by using some lame excuse about 'parliamentary decorum' as the reason why he did not and will not make specific demands at this time for changes to the budget, e.g., the timing and extent of EI reform. Ignatieff seems to be playing a strategy of waiting for polls to swing more strongly in favour of a Liberal majority, as the pain and tragedies that will most certainly result from Harper's inadequate budget occur. Apparently, Ignatieff feels that if he made specific demands, on things such as the timeliness and extent of EI reform, Harper would reject it and then the only option would be to reject the budget. I'm guessing Ignatieff has already taken the GG's moral pulse and realizes she is more concerned about financial retribution from her Conservative peers when she leaves office than she is about serving the immediate needs of the Canadian people and approving a coalition government at this time. So, it is likely that a rejection of the budget, with this GG, would mean an election (and with it) further delay to meeting the needs of the Canadian people.
  732. Phineas freekinstone from where liberals do not venture, Canada writes: MIKE STY 11:46..........hahahahahahahahahaha. yup count iggula sure has Harper jumping . time to delete the coalition part of your name MIKE I promise not to say nah nah na nah nah :)
  733. Ontario Man from Canada writes: I listened to an NDP critic yesterday criticise the budget proposal for home renovations. He basically said that since most contractors were men this was not a fair allocation of money.

    Heaven forbid the government help unemployed men.
  734. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Karen Morris; The 5 week extension on EI claims would extend benefits from 45 to 50 weeks. When it comes into effect is not really that relevant, whether it is today or 5 weeks from now. It does take time for the EI system to make changes.
  735. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: The coalition was dead when Dion scurried away.
  736. Fiat Lux from Canada writes: :

    re: the ExpenseChart 'Crunching the Numbers',
    the number to watch GROW is PublicDebtCharges, currently $29.5 BILLION ($29,500,000,000.00).


    .
  737. richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: k. He caved. A lousy few report cards when the government is bound to inform Parliament anyway. How very disgusting.

    This is on a par with the Liberals caving on extending the Afghanistan mission.

    In the end, Mr. Ignatieff's greater antipathy for the Bloc and the NDP won out. The opportunity for a bold, progressive alternative now, gone.

    What a sad day this is for many, many Canadians. Now comes the Harperite's ridicule. Is there a hole somewhere down which I can crawl?
  738. Phineas freekinstone from where liberals do not venture, Canada writes: Richard Sharp.......of course he caved ,that was a given from day 1........what do you think myself and others have been saying for weeks? the coalition was just huff and puff, and as to the coalition being a 'bold progressive alternative'....hogwash
  739. Montreal Guy from Montreal, Canada writes: To everyone here does anyone think Lizze May will give her thoughts on this budget? Not that I care for her, her party or anything she has to say but you have to think is she wants to play with the grownups surely she should comment.
  740. richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: Montreal Guy, she's down here with me.
  741. Fiat Lux from Canada writes: :

    re: 'If the Liberals aren't satisfied with the government's progress reports, they reserve the right to defeat the government, Mr. Ignatieff vowed.'

    You have set the dates Mr. Ignatieff, now please articulate the trigger

    .
  742. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: richard sharp; Ignateiff did not cave. He took the only reasonable course open for the Liberal Party, for Canada and for Ignateiff. To defeat the government on a budget that would be almost identical to anyBudget that Ignateiff would present, was not an option. To defeat the government, a late March election and a new Budget probably in May, then several months before the budget would have any effect on the economy, would waste three months. It is quite possible the election would change nothing, unless voters wanted the stability of a majority government and decided to give the Conservatives another 12 seats. Canadians who are out of work or waiting for a layoff notice can't wait another three months.

    Ignateiff did what was right for Canada, for the Liberal Party and for his political career. He had no choice. By budget time next year, Ignateiff will be ready to force an election, on his timing, not that of the BLOC or NDP.
  743. R M from Toronto, Canada writes: 'I said this yesterday, and post this as a reminder. What we have here is the 'seen vs. unseen' fallacy at work. Government produces no wealth. They take wealth from others and redistribute it to others under their monopoly of the monetary system and violence. Let me illustrate with an example: A and B put their heads together and decide what C shall be made to do for D. All eyes are on how D benefits. Endless political commentary and punditry abound around D. A and B is the State. C is the person who does productive economic work and pays taxes extorted via A and B and D is the recipient of the swindled money from C, less the cut that A and B squander on themselves or their favoured insiders. What is not seen is the economic benefits of what C might have done if C was allowed to retain his money and spend it as they saw fit. Existing businesses would not receive C's money anymore or future businesses may not come into existence. In otherwords, current and future businesses effectively subsidize D, favoured by A and B. A and B have another mechanism to swindle C; devalue the money s/he has in their pockets by printing new currency into existence to finance D. This new currency has an inflationary effect on C's savings for today, tomorrow, or passed onto C's children. Government sponsored inflationary attacks on C by the State/Banking cartel rob C in such a manner that not one in a million C's can diagnose. C pays for D via inflation, not taxation. The most skilled statistician cannot tell you what millions of C's would have done, today or tomorrow, had they been allowed to retain their money (or the value of it) to spend into the economy. C is the forgotten man.' That was a quote from The Remnant near the top of this section, and I think it was well enough said to warrant a double take. I'm generally supportive of the left, but I do have to wonder if our good intentions are actually harmful. We can't force people to give to charity...
  744. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Really disappointed in libs' conditional support for budget.

    I would have held cons' feet to fire in order to provide better stimulus package. This one's pretty lite.

    Two possibilities, one is that libs' have no stomach for a fight, second is that they have no consensus on alternative ideas.

    Shame they wouldn't have given their interim leader more support. Does this indicate Ignatieff does not have unwavering support from a majority in his caucus.

    Libs will never have a better opportunity to use their influence as Harper needs their support now.
  745. Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Third possibility, libs maybe want Harper to take fall when things really start to turn bad.
  746. R M from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Third possibility, libs maybe want Harper to take fall when things really start to turn bad.'

    I think that's more of 'one of the potential effects,' but I doubt the Liberal plan entirely hinges on hoping Harper fails. It did though seem to be a strategy by Harper, trying to force another election with the economic update. Ignatieff bounced the ball right back to Harper.

    Is it just me, or is Ignatieff simply a better politician than Harper? Not to say his ideas and policies are (that can be debated obviously), but Ignatieff seems to know how to gain power better than Harper.
  747. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: R M - If Ignatieff can win an election, may be you can count him as an effective politician.
  748. William J. (Willy) Godfrey from Whitby, Canada writes: Simply Put...

    HARPER MUST CAPITULATE OR HAVE THE BUDGET DEFEATED!!!

    EITHER WAY

    HE IS TOAST!!!!!!
  749. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: Willy....not sure how you see that. The govt can easily spin accepting the additional spending as Liberal plan and it will come back to haunt them in the next election. This spending is ridiculous and it is a neat trick to blame the government who resisted spending in the first place but have been forced to by the opposition. The price you pay for being in power.
  750. R M from Toronto, Canada writes: 'If Ignatieff can win an election, may be you can count him as an effective politician.'

    Well, considering what a huge concession this budget was by Harper/Flaherty, Ignatieff may very well simply be playing Harper like a puppet. In some cases, you don't need to be 'in' power to be the one excorcising it.

    If Harper were still in as much control as he was in the Dion Days, you think Harper would still have produced essentially a Liberal budget?
  751. D Peters from Alberta, Canada writes: This is almost, no, is ridiculous.

    The only reason there was a coalition to start with was the $1.95 a vote thing. In hindsight it would have been about $60B cheaper to give the cry babies thier $1.95.

    Funny thing the PC's were going to take a bigger hit than any other party over cash for votes thing.

    The opposition parties have a feeling of entitlement to that $1.95. It was a bold move by Harper, unfortunately it backfired hugely, but it sure showed the true colour of the opposition parties.

    Its all about the money.
  752. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: D Peters from Alberta, Canada writes: "...Yes, as a Canadian taxpayer I am so proud to give money to parties I didn't even vote for. If I want to support the NDP I would get out my checkbook and join the party. Instead, they pick my pocket without so much as a Thank You..."

    D Peters: the political subsidy was created to wean political parties off corporate and union financing. I prefer an open and transparent funding process. I prefer caps on both contributions and campaign spending.

    If the Conservatives (who voted to accept the political subsidy in 2003) want to change this, then why can they not discuss this in an all-party committee like the liberals did in 2003?

    Oh yeah, I forgot about their manual on how to disrupt parliamentary committees!

    And you fear the Bloc? From where I'm standing, it appears to have been the Conservatives who have been systematically "destroying Canada as we know it".
  753. Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: Finally it appears tha Canadians have seen what the people and the leader of the province of N.L.have seen in Harper and his cronies.get screwed without so much as a thank you.
  754. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Don Adams, the Centrist Conservative from Canada writes:

    ..... there's a real good pill on the market....called Lorazapam..... get your Dr. to proscribe it for you...it's a great calmer downer..... will allow you to sleep at night instead of posting all night! :-)

    -------------------------------------------

    Ah, so that's what you're on......always knew you were on something....funny, I always suspected it was that illegal " Harper crack ". Here it turns out it was a legal Rx script Lorazapam. So, tell us what it's like when you mix it with Harper's "Kool Aid" ? Must be a real trip...bet it would make you support even a lying nut ?
  755. R M from Toronto, Canada writes: Peters, what did you expect the Liberals to do, roll over and die? They utilized the only option at their disposal, the Coalition.

    Therefore, this entire mess is Harper's fault. Not the Conservatives, or conservatives for that matter; only Harper's.
  756. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: james greystone from Canada writes: no wonder don adams is so hard hearted, he's a pensioner! easy to tell others with his little birdie chest all rounded with pride, 'i'd never take e.i.!' pensioners on their sweet pensions don't have e.i. adams, with his little birdie heart swelling with pride boasts of having done it all for 42 years and will do anything, as all others must do if they wish to have his blessing, anything rather than accept a government handout.
    it's not a hand out, birdbrain, they've paid for it!
    the 'conservatives' must hate this budget.

    --------------------------------

    wonder what Adams would do if he had no OAS/GIS/CPP benefits to supplement his income ?? Those are the things your harper conReform worshippers want to abolish are they not ?
  757. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: bilbo baggins from Canada writes: 'R M - If Ignatieff can win an election, may be you can count him as an effective politician.'

    bilbo, Igantieff has already won 2 elections (in 2006 & 2008).
  758. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Greg Wood from Calgary, Canada writes: Third possibility, libs maybe want Harper to take fall when things really start to turn bad.

    --------------------------------------------

    BINGO ....the conReforms under Harper let in the toxic mortgages and were inattentive to finance regulations, food health inspection regulations...yet, spent millions of Canadians taxpayer dollars on trying to buy votes leaving us with a $13 Billion deficit
    The Harper conReformers can be attributed to this global economic crisis which can be linked to GW BUSH ...........the Harper neo-theo conRefomers need to go down with their own sinking ship and take all the heat that comes from this debacle.
    Liberals along with hard working middle class Canadians will once again come to the rescue to prop the sinking ship back up and steer in a better direction.

    BUSH = EVIL

    HARPER = BUSH = Don't ever forget !!
  759. bilbo baggins from Canada writes: Compos - federal election
  760. Angus Elliott from Cambridge, Canada writes: Keynes wrote that stimulus could amount to 'fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coal mines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again.'

    I suppose these budget measures are better... but we're assuming Keynes was right. As a fiscal conservative I'm disappointed that our government is going down this path.

    To do what the Liberals would have done just to stay in power does not buy you any credit if it works, and (just read the 'conservative times are tough times' above) if it fails you get to wear it.
  761. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: bilbo baggins from Canada writes: 'R M - If Ignatieff can win an election, may be you can count him as an effective politician.'

    bilbo, Igantieff has already won 2 elections (in 2006 & 2008).

    Mentis Compos, Ignateiff 'won' those two elections in a safe Toronto riding and on Dion's coat tails.
  762. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: Finally it appears tha Canadians have seen what the people and the leader of the province of N.L.have seen in Harper and his cronies.get screwed without so much as a thank you.

    Steadfast from N.L. The people of N&L screwed themselves when they crowned King Danny, but they haven't realized it yet. Danny may be adored in N&L but not elsewhere. If he represented the people of N.L by working with other governments , the people of N&L would be better represented and better off. Instead, the King of the Rock chooses to fight, purportedly for the people of N&L, but in reality Danny's fighting is to punish people who don't bow down to the King, one monsterous ego. He knows that the formula for payments to the provinces can change when provincial finances change. Ontario is no longer a 'have' province and receives equalization. Alberta is taking a big hit on oil and gas prices. If Danny is half as smart as he pretends to be, he knows he is out to lunch on his posturing.
  763. Compos Mentis from in the Darwinian, Wild West..., Canada writes: bilbo baggins from Canada writes: 'Compos - federal election'

    ??

    He is an MP?

    Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: '...Mentis Compos, Ignateiff 'won' those two elections in a safe Toronto riding and on Dion's coat tails.'

    Regardless of you thinks Fuzzy, the reality is that Ignatieff ran in a federal election campaign was elected.
  764. D Peters from Alberta, Canada writes: R M from Toronto, Canada

    Yes, as a Canadian taxpayer I am so proud to give money to parties I didn't even vote for. If I want to support the NDP I would get out my checkbook and join the party. Instead, they pick my pocket without so much as a Thank You.

    Do you like the idea of sending your hard earn tax dollar going to support the BQ, aparty bent on the destruction of Canada as we know it?

    GO HARPER GO!!!!!
  765. J M M from Canada writes: The Hawkish looking Iggy is going to watch the Harper government like a 'hawk' Why do the Liberals thinks they should be the sole judge re: the budget--how about the people of Canada or don't they count at all !
    Lets look at the facts-the Liberal party is not ready for an election they are broke as well as knowing they would loose. The NDP are all done.

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