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Auto makers plead for 'survival' loans

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Detroit Three want Clement, McGuinty to provide aid ahead of today's results they say will test industry's ability to survive ...Read the full article

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  1. ByB YmomY from Canada writes: ..//

    NO. Not from my pocket. no Way!

    ..//
  2. Misery No one from Toronto, Canada writes: The big 3 had their chance and failed the consumer with their shoddy products.

    Now they must fall on their swords
  3. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: Any "loans" will be lost when GM and Ford go bankrupt in 2009. Chrysler will probably be gutted and sold off.

    By the time you add the extras you want, no GM car costs less than $20K. Ford's cheapy cars have no pep, and all of the big three cars are made to fall apart.

    The union has to go, the executive has to go, a lot has to go. Government funding will never end once it starts.
  4. gao gao from Canada writes: I wonder how many jobs will this $1 billion loans (or later a give away) save and how many jobs will we be able to create if we invest this $1B in something else?
  5. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: For a billion dollars you can build at least 200 wind turbines, powering at least a quarter million homes... That's an improvement I think.
  6. Jedi Knight from Canada writes: Forget about it! Not with taxpayers money!

    The North American automotive industry failed to produce cars that were of good quality and they had a poor CEO leadership that did not have a visionary perspective.

    The reason why foreign automakers win with their cars is simple. They build a superior product. The Japanese for example, when they find a problem, they don't look for whom to blame. They fix the problem. Their way is superior.
  7. Ryan Ginger from Canada writes: If the Big 3 hadn't spent the better part of the 1990s intensely lobbying Congress against any environmental reforms and had focused their energies, instead, on producing an enviro-friendly car, maybe they would be in a much better market position right now.

    And so now they come to Ottawa, cap in hand, singing their usual song: 'we're too big to fail'.

    I think the time has come to make the painful transition in our manufacturing sector...
  8. s c from Canada writes: People will continue to need cars going forward. If the Detroit Three are unable to survive, employees will lose their jobs. The question is how many of these jobs will be offset by increased hiring at other car makers as the car makers that survive will need to increase their output (as the same number of total cars will still be needed)?

    If GM, Ford and Chrysler let go large numbers of workers while Honda, Toyota and other car makers higher large numbers of workers, is this something that the government should throw away billions to delay?
  9. Rain Couver from Canada writes: They can have the money, only if it is invested in lines of alternative fuel vehicles researched, developed and built in Canada. If not, suck it up, buttercup.
  10. True North from Canada writes: Time for another Harper flip-flop.
  11. Kyle Wickert from Burlington, Canada writes: If you understand anything that is going on in the North American auto industry you would know that Ford has out ranked Toyota for quality, and reliability from 2007 on.

    Funny how Toyota sales globally are plummeting more than the big three, somthing like 69%.

    The fact of the matter is that when you buy a Toyota, Honda, or any foreign car. The money goes into a Japanese, Chinese, or Korean bank account. We NEED our money to stay here in North America.

    Take a look at somthing built here, cause one auto job, is worth seven other jobs in Ontario alone. If you want to see gost towns created all accross American and Canada, keep buying foreign!
  12. s c from Canada writes: Kyle Wickert from Burlington, Canada writes: If you want to see gost towns created all accross American and Canada, keep buying foreign!

    --------------------------------

    Kyle - what do you consider a foreign built car? My honda was build in Ontario. Toyoto and many other "foreign" makers also employ a huge number of Canadians to build cars in Canada.
  13. Watercooler Pundit from Regina, Canada writes: The hands are out and there's no sign of it stopping. The taxpayers are going to be taking it in the posterior until Harper is OUT!
  14. Muk Kok from Canada writes: Can all those people who had their homes foreclosed because they defaulted on mortgage payments; or those who are heading towards bankruptcies and in danger of losing their homes also plead for 'survival' loans from the Governments?

    The automakers have hundreds of tax incentives from various levels of Governments and they still failed.

    Maybe this is a good time to have an automaker that is made here in Canada.
    We can start with building smaller hybrid and electric cars.
    Government handouts are better used this way.
  15. Brian Ch from Canada writes: No imagine this article if Encana, Canadian Natural Resources, and Talisman Energy wanted a bailout from the government. Picture the enthusiasm.
  16. S H from Windsor, Canada writes: s c .....what the Japanese contribute to the auto industry in Canada fails in comparison to what the big 3 contribute. If the big 3 go under, kiss millions of jobs goodbye and Honda and Toyota will have to shut down as well. Be careful what you wish for!!!
  17. Ed Anger from Canada writes: why should a single mom working as an assistant who gets nothing from our government subsidize an auto worker (who makes 4 times her wages,) thru her taxes. Where did you think these subsidies come from. Take a cut in pay and build decent vehicles and maybe things will get better thats the only guarentee anyone has in life. Suck it up.....
  18. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent but always blames somebody else., Canada writes: Here's the question: Our Federal gov't has already stepped up to the plate for the banks - after declaring that our banks are sound and that the Canadian economy is fine, Harper threw together a last minute pre-election deal to bail them out of their short term financing challenges. Personally, I would have preferred that the gov'ts in both the States, and Canada (and Europe for that matter) just let market forces do their job with the banks. BUT they didn't. So how will they now deny any assistance to the auto companies? And don't use the flawed argument that the auto companies made their own bed - so did the banks, so that argument can't be used. And don't use the argument that the bank bailout was not a bailout - it was an investment - that's BS. GM and Chrysler are on the brink. There's no way that Bush or Obama are going to let them die without trying to help. So what do you think Harper (and McGuinty) will do? Especially considering the bulk of the workforces are in the two provinces where Harper needs support. Gov't intervention is a slippery slope. But it's a bit late to debate that point. Our gov't has already taken that giant step. Why and more importantly HOW can they stop now?
  19. all thedirt from Toronto, Canada writes: Part of the problem is Canada is owned by Multinationals, these are not Canadian Companies and makes no difference if you give them Canadian money.
    If the things get worse for the economy you will see other industries getting out of Canada.

    We have wasted 50 years of good times to build something better that is Canadian controlled,we are still depending on the Resource sector to keep us afloat, and now that is Foreign owned.
    Hard times ahead until we have politicians of all stripes that only care about getting elected, start caring about Canada.
  20. Marley B from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bulsh^t! Bul*sh^t! Bulsh^t! There is no excuse for this. This is private enterprise. Health care is a top priority not bailing out auto makers who make a endangered product and crappier versions than other countries.
  21. J. Michael from Canada writes: Get these workers to start making something people actually want and need.
  22. C. M. from London, Ontario, Canada writes: How about the Canadian Auto Workers bailing the big 3 out ? It's the unions that drove the big 3 into the ground. What is it- something like 1/3 of the cost of a big 3 car goes to funding their pensions ? I stopped buying big 3 cars 20 years ago. My current Toyota, problem free since I bought it, save for a brake job, is now 12 years old with no signs of quitting anytime soon. Build better cars lil' 3 !!
  23. Oksana Szulhan from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Interesting; three foreign ( US ) companies think Canada should bail them out. Why ?
  24. C. M. from London, Ontario, Canada writes: So what kind of a massive wage and benefit cut are the CAW offering ? I don't seem to hear anything on that.
  25. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sorry, NO can do !

    If corporations are not competitive, they don't survive...

    That's life...

    Suck it up !

    Slainte
  26. Rollo T from Belgium writes: The problem is the American health insurance, there isn't any. What was forecast to be an 8 year burden in the 50s now is a 40 year burden, and the big 3 are collapsing from the weight.

    I drive a 5 speed manual 2.5 litre diesel made-in-Detroit Chrysler minivan, now 4 years old, and I adore it. Fuel efficient, pleasure to drive, cheap to maintain.

    Unfortunately, it will take years before Obama can do much with health care, if enough. What to do.
  27. okanagan pakman from Canada writes: Here we go...true colors will be revealed...Harper will be squirming over this one....haven't really heard from any true-blue CRAPers on this story yet...think we'll find any goodies in the larder when all the talk has been restraint?...will Flaherty find some secret stash?...maybe Mulroney could kick in that 2.5 million he owes Canadians!
  28. Chilled One from Canada writes: Before we buy a car from one of the "Big Three" should we be performing a credit check?
  29. Chilled One from Canada writes: C. M. from London, Ontario, Canada writes: How about the Canadian Auto Workers bailing the big 3 out ? It's the unions that drove the big 3 into the ground. What is it- something like 1/3 of the cost of a big 3 car goes to funding their pensions ? I stopped buying big 3 cars 20 years ago. My current Toyota, problem free since I bought it, save for a brake job, is now 12 years old with no signs of quitting anytime soon. Build better cars lil' 3 !!
    Posted 07/11/08 at 1:16 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
    -----------
    The same Toyota made in Ontario by UAW workers?
    Idiot.
  30. Carl Hansen from Canada writes: Wow, GM has only 9 months of cash left at the present burn rate. They were counting on and stating they would be making it to 2010 only 3 or 4 months ago. That's unreal. Sort of a Barney Frank moment.
  31. Andrei Popov from NYC, United States writes: NO WAY. No government money

    Who will pay the loan back when they go bankrup. It is about time those overpaid workers get salary reduction if they want their industry to survive...
  32. Big Tony from Canada writes: The global auto industry is suffering from the lack of sales. The big three demise started sooner because their product mix favoured less fuel efficient models and they were caught off guard by the parabolic move in oil prices. Add to the mix a collapse in the housing market, the biggest financial fraud ever committed by Wall Street in the history of the world, the freezing up of the credit/debt markets, a brutal stock market crash, massive layoffs and a consumer that is so indebted and over taxed that buying a big ticket item is the last thing on their mind. But the bankruptcy of the big three could be the straw that breaks the economic back and the global financial system could spiral out of control as more companies that depend on the auto industry go bust and credit markets as well could completely collaspe. Unfortunely government financial aid will not make people buy cars, but the risk in not providng help are too great. At the same time governments should help consumers too, by providing a sales tax holiday on a purchase of a new vehicle for a period of time to help motivate sales and also to display fairness in the assistance program.
  33. Chester Rockwell from Canada writes: Chilled One from Canada writes:"The same Toyota made in Ontario by UAW workers?
    Idiot. "

    Actually, Toyota's Canada plants are specifically not unionized. The CAW has tried to unionize the Cambridge plant, but Toyota is hell bent against it (for understandable reasons...).

    Dare I say? "Idiot"
  34. D P from Oakville, Canada writes: Harper will give the money and there is nothing he or the haters here can do about it. The plan is already in the works, Chrysler will not exist in 5 years plus Ford and GM will be smaller. As for bad quality, well the haters are just simple morons on that one. Ford matches Toyota on JDP reports these days and that never actually meant anything when it didn't, because they were never very far apart. Think of the Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe, they are the exact same other than some plastic and are built in the same plant. People are sheep and they buy labels.
  35. Andrei Popov from NYC, United States writes:
    The end of the big 3 is called: NATURAL SELECTION
  36. Andrei Popov from NYC, United States writes: D P from Oakville, Canada writes:
    (...) Ford matches Toyota on JDP reports...

    LOL LOL LOL LOL !!!

    I bet you work for FORD...
  37. censured . from Canada writes: When you have weak management and a greedy workforce you get an industry that can't sustain itself. The paradox here is fascinating...on the one hand we are all seeking a decline of the polluting auto industry....yet thousands of jobs will be lost in the process. I guess no one said the new reality would be easy. Detroit had a chance to get ahead of the curve a few years ago by offering what consumers would want in the future...rather they built ever larger SUV's for soccer moms and pimp wannabes. I suppose they'll be worth scrap value soon.
  38. Chester Rockwell from Canada writes: D P from Oakville, Canada writes: "Ford matches Toyota on JDP reports these days and that never actually meant anything when it didn't."

    http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand
    http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

    You can quite clearly see that Ford does not match Toyota or Honda.
  39. D P from Oakville, Canada writes: Chester, FYI, Cambridge came close to being unionize two times in the past. Both times the union was voted against by fractions, which also coincided with an infux of contract works being listed as full time and that number became the deciding factor in both cases. I'll leave the rest for you to figure out, being so intelligent.
  40. Chester Rockwell from Canada writes: D P from Oakville, Canada writes: "Chester, FYI, Cambridge came close to being unionize two times in the past. Both times the union was voted against by fractions, which also coincided with an infux of contract works being listed as full time and that number became the deciding factor in both cases. I'll leave the rest for you to figure out, being so intelligent."

    Close and unionized are two very different things, now aren't they? Given that Toyota is one of the only companies that is expanding in Ontario without asking for fistfulls of cash, I don't understand why the CAW continually maligns them. That plant is also the only car factory to make it onto Maclean's top 100 employers as well, a list that is usually reserved for government departments and "white collar" jobs.
  41. D P from Oakville, Canada writes: Given that Toyota is one of the only companies that is expanding in Ontario without asking for fistfulls of cash, I don't understand why the CAW continually maligns them. Chester, Toyota took the money for woodstock and their expansion plans were halted to one shift there. Wake up.
  42. Big Tony from Canada writes: As much as I hate corporate welfare, I'm afraid that the demise of the big three will have dire economic and social consequences even if you are not directly involved with the industry. It's called supply chain economics or the trickle down affect, but in this case it would be a financial tsunami.
  43. Former 2 Time CIBC Staffer from North Vancouver, Canada writes: I will raise hell with any politician who supports any attempt to bail out these clowns. These corporate welfare bums have lived for too long off the teat of government grants and incentives. Anyone with half a brain could see in 2002 the era of cheap gas was over and yet they kept building their monster SUVs with no thought of having a backup plan just in case the money didn't keep rolling in. Let them go Chapter 11 and see what happens...
  44. Lee Bailie from Oshawa, Canada writes: Pretty much a no-win situation for the province and the feds here, I'd say. They could spend the money (even double it) and they likely never see a nickel of it in return. The Detroit three have been shedding jobs and plants in North America for years-the stock market plunge has just sped up their descent. Market share for all three has been eroding for years, especially in the US, and the stock market crash has partially obscured the reality that none of them have been able to adapt the seismic shifts taking place in the market. Too many factories producing too many vehicles that the public isn't buying- at least not in sufficient number to justify the investment. The spike in world oil prices is what really hurt, but they still rely way too much on gas guzzlers to stay afloat, many of which are built here. Small passenger cars have been ignored for years as profit centres, and belated attempts to make more of them seems like closing the barn door long after the horse is gone. What to do? Not sure. Toyota and the other Japanese marques can weather the economic storm because they are on solid financial ground, but it's far from certain we'll be building Fords and Chevys here long-term. Ultimately, these are foreign companies even though we like to think of them as Canadian, and I suspect that, push comes to shove, we'll be asked to take the hit to keep them afloat Stateside.
  45. DON BARTA from Canada writes: -

    - Good mourning to all you union bashers and whinners out there -

    - The cost of labour in manufacturing is only about 9 % but it seems to be responsible for about 90 % of the blame for everything wrong in the world today!

    - High fuel prices, uneven quality parts sourced from the lowest bidder, dealers crappy sales and service policies, company warranty problems, etc, etc, etc are not the responsibility of the union worker.

    - Other than after some elections, how can anyone be happy that someone will be out of a job?

    ~
  46. Lance M from Canada writes: None of the world's auto companies or airlines will survive the next few years. Peak oil has arrived. There is an expected drop in daily production (according to the International Energy Agency) of 9.1% without substantive investment in new fields and existing fields. (Try getting a loan in this economy) That loss amounts to the need for a new Saudi Arabia every 18 mos. I wouldn't bet on the electric car, ethanol car, biodiesel or hydrogen car. We've been a car culture for close to 100 years, particularly for the last 60 but we weren't a car culture before and we won't be a car culture again. Most of these autoworkers will end up being farmers. We will need about 5 million new ones in Canada.
  47. John McCain from Canada writes: It is time to allow creative destruction to have its way with the big three and there should be NO corporate welfare this time around. The CAW and its workers must fall on their swords as they have priced themselves right of this market and had their head in the sand for the last two decades.

    Yes Ontario will suffer but out of the ashes of these companies will come new creative juice and opportunities for those willing to change. Just as the horse and buggy era came to an end so does the era of the auto companies who refused to change with the times and develop products that were relevant to the times.

    Those who marry one generation die with the next.
  48. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: Adapt or Die.

    If you can't or refuse to do the first, then all you're left with is the later.
  49. Chilled One from Canada writes: Chester Rockwell from Canada writes: Chilled One from Canada writes:"The same Toyota made in Ontario by UAW workers?
    Idiot. "

    Actually, Toyota's Canada plants are specifically not unionized. The CAW has tried to unionize the Cambridge plant, but Toyota is hell bent against it (for understandable reasons...).

    Dare I say? "Idiot"
    Posted 07/11/08 at 1:46 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
    ---------
    Yes, say idiot when referring to yourself. As long as the UAW sets a wage standard that the "non union" plants closely parody, the Toyota workers essentially earn a union wage. That sir is your lesson for the day, now go back to your idiocy.
  50. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I don't think that anyone here is happy to see anyone out of a job, but when the Fisheries collapsed in Atlantic Canada years ago (still the singlemost largest lay off in Canadian history, I believe), 60,000 people had to retrain for alternate employment or move elsewhere for work...

    Such is life...

    One cannot keep unproductive, non-competitive industries (that are building a product that many people are not buying anymore) going indefinitely through corporate welfare.

    Slainte
  51. Robert Bland from Calgary, Canada writes: First, the banks needed emergency assistance or the economy would seize up and nothing would get done.

    Next, the insurance companies were in danger of failing.

    The Chamber of Commerce wants more government assistance for business (these are the guys always complaining about too much government involvement in their lives).

    Pension plans are complaining they need relaxed funding rules because more than half of them fail a solvency test.

    Auto companies desperately need government cash or they'll be bankrupt within a year or so.

    Now there's talk that we need a sales tax holiday or other incentives for consumers to buy big-ticket items or the retail side of the economy will fail.

    Does anyone else feel we're living in a house of cards and it's all falling apart?

    I truly believe that the days of go-go, laissez-faire, grab-as much-as-you-can capitalism where everything grows by 3, 4, 5, 6, or more percent a year are over, and it's going to take a long, long time before we come up with a new system to replace it. If government starts throwing money around or guaranteeing loans right and left, we're going to end up needing wheelbarrows of cash to buy our weekly groceries.

    As Bob Dylan said "A long, hard rain's gonna fall"!
  52. Working Commercial but Active from Canada writes: The plants are closing in any case, due to the economy and drop in demand. Also ... it would help if they made cars that people want to b uy! Gross inefficiency, excessive wage and pension expense, a bloated executive suite, boards of directors that should be cleaning house to save the outrageous salary and compensation that is absolutely un-earned. The government is not here to pay companies money. Ask for low interest loans to retool a factory to make hybrids, ... ok, that is fair ... but survival loans? Only if all executives reduce their salaries to "survival salaries".
  53. Big Tony from Canada writes: Don Barta, unfortunately there are people in this world that find happiness with other people's misfortune. It's human nature for one to better themselves and their family and auto workers did just that, what is natural. North American has not become a high cost jurisdiction because of high wages in the private sector, but the high cost of maintaining massive governments, and the free lunchers that depend on the productive members of society for existence.
  54. truth betold from Canada writes: You Windsor windbags and other self-serving unionistas make me laugh. You had no competition on this continent for 70 years. You failed to compete for the past 30 years. You helped drive you companies into the grave with your ridiculous wage demands. Your bloated pensions are drowning your employers. You cars are garbage.
    Every time a plant closes you whine that you won't have your overpaid job for life.
    No private company should get a handout - EVER - from taxpayers. Not Not Ford, Chrysler, or GM. Bombardier. Not ATCO. Not any of them.
    We taxpayers pay and pay and pay and pay.
    Enough is enough.
  55. david tarbuck from Uzhgorod, Ukraine writes: Money for auto makers should be available ONLY as a post chapter 11 endeavour to enable them to downsize to a world that wil no longer support one vehicle for every two persons.
  56. Big Tony from Canada writes: Truth Betold, I'm from Windsor but I don't work in the auto industry and I'm not a fan of unions either. But what you just said about the auto workers can be applied more so to all the underworked overpaid unionized public sector employees that produce zero for the economy.
  57. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: Alternatively, our government could, instead of just GIVING the money to these mostly American (with a splash of Japanese) manufacturers, could invest in Canadian businesses. They could even back the re-emergence of a Canadian car manufacturer. I understand the "Big 3" will shortly be abandoning several factories that could be purchased for cheap and used to create Canadian businesses for Canadians, rather than simply guarantee certain profits for Americans. How about starting with forcing provinces to accept Zenn cars in Canada, rather than this Canadian company only being allowed to sell outside Canada because, yet again, we're too damn stupid to support Canadian businesses?

    As for the anti-union comments, I guess these folks would rather we just return to the time of the industrial revolution? With 16 hour days and poverty wages where the factory owners called ALL the shots? I don't bloody think so.
  58. William J Gillies from Canada writes: censured . from Canada writes: "The paradox here is fascinating...on the one hand we are all seeking a decline of the polluting auto industry....yet thousands of jobs will be lost in the process."

    Here's an idea! How about a Green Shift? You know, investing in conservation and renewable energy projects?

    IEA estimates we're headed for a 9% drop in oil production per year, ie. we would need to bring another Ghawar oil field every 18 months to keep up with the current depletion rate.
  59. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: If aid is given, why not take a stake in these companies?

    If not, then only cool aid, but then for not making lemonade.
  60. doctor business from vancouver, Canada writes: Stop making cars and make something we need instead! No more bailouts for private automobiles. Give us light rail. Give us bikes. There is PLENTY of work to be done! There is no excuse for a bailout when so much work is begging to be done. Stop doing the job that is wrecking everything for everyone and start doing the job we NEED (rebuild our cities not around cars!) Then you won't need bailouts whatsoever because you will be up and coming. If you need a small bailout to CHANGE DIRECTION back to SANITY that is one thing. But more of the same has to die.
  61. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: GM already got a handout. They requested millions so that they could retool the Oshawa plant so that it could pump out the Camaro! They got the money then they turn around and say they are scaling back work at that plant because of the high price of fuel and little demand for that gas guzzling model.

    I think if the Ontario govt. were going to bail out these companies their would have to be guarantees with these loans. I would like to see these companies use these loans to make really economical cars instead of gas guzzlers and trucks they mostly pump out now. Honda and Toyota here in Ontario are not asking for help because they are making models that are moving off the showroom floors.
  62. Saskatchewan Seal Hunters Assoc. from Canada writes: The auto industry is bullsh*t to begin with. First of all they want loans just to "test" the ability to survive?????????? No way. They expect people to keep buying new autos every few years. People just can't afford this anymore. What ever happened to people running their vecihles for 15 years or more?
  63. Michael Powers from Canada writes: Lets see - The Canadian Autoworker earns about $70.00 an hour in take home pay and benefits.

    How much is the C.A.W. going to allow the autoworkers salary to be reduce by?

    Once we know that, then the negotiations for the loan can begin.

    No reduction - no loan.
  64. Stude Ham from Canada writes:
    and so it goes... the banks get a 30B$ free gift of taxpayer money$, and the vanoc vanities get huge load$ of taxpayer $$$ free... and now the rest of the canadian industrial society is demanding to be included as part of these harper giveaway$.

    the auto industry... the oil industry (carbon exchange ok... but exempt us from it)... and why shouldn't any other industry be allowed free harperbuc$ ... just like the banks got? after all they're all going through the same economic depression and therefore should all be treated equally.

    Something very very wrong is being perpetrated for the sake of political brownie points.
  65. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: The North American automotive industry and its unions are victims of self inflicted wounds. Let them work out their own problems and live or die as the result.

    Why not examine the feasibilty of financing programs to re-train the union robots to take up alternative means of employment, including lessons in the virtues of increased productivity and reduced feather bedding? Provide the successful candidates with a government/industry low interest loan to cover some of the cost of relocating to regions of the country where there are lots of jobs to be had. Call upon the industries who need the help to kick in a share of the relocation costs.
  66. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    Corporate and Union greed payed no dividends!
  67. Brenton E. from Canada writes: there has to be some focus on what is truly needed, there should also be a reorganization between management and union, maybe more like the Japanese model. Salary must be realistic and to those who complain about the worker salaries please take the time to show the same distaste for the executive salaries.
  68. d m from toronto, Canada writes: how about just giving a loan to a foreign car manufacturer to buy one of or all of the big 3 decrepid companies and let them fix the problem? the successful ones obviously have a business model that is not self-destructing. why would any level of government go out of its way (which means my way) to hand money to a bunch of incompetent managers who grasp at straws for what to do? it is like handing an arsenist a pail of gas to put out the fire.
  69. Alec Robertson from Riverdale, Canada writes: All costs paid by an auto maker to keep a worker on the line add up to 70.00 per hour.
  70. More Bambi's Down from Canada writes: If necessary, let the Big 3 die! (they won't) They're trying (again) to take the easy way out.....Gov't handouts. I Say No Way!

    They've caused their own problems, let them solve them. Union labour...it's caused it's own problems...let them solve them.

    The Big 3 won't die.... but, they will change, for the better.... especially if they don't get Gov't help. Read the excellent post by Gerry Pankhurst....I fully agree with you Gerry!

    No one has the "Right" to a job, no one has the "Right" to work at the job of their choice, in the location of their choice. You do have a RESPONSIBILITY to yourself and your family though, to work, and provide for them. You just do what you have to do.
  71. CallofDuty . from Toronto, Canada writes: Give the money to Honda/Toyota/Nissan. I am pretty sure they'll invest wisely here like they always have. I do not trust the big 3.
  72. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: To those who wish the auto industry "ill" and "let them die" do you realize that 1 in 7! jobs is connected to the auto industry. 1 in 7. Are you prepared to see that kind of social upheavel???? Obviously you and your families don't seem to see a connection between your well being and the well being of others.
  73. William J Gillies from Canada writes: R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: "To those who wish the auto industry "ill" and "let them die" do you realize that 1 in 7! jobs is connected to the auto industry. 1 in 7. Are you prepared to see that kind of social upheavel?"

    We can then plow over more agricultural lands to park all the unsold products on! Haven't you noticed there's a deepening global recession? Haven't you read the other news listing the growing number of oilsands projects being shelved, because of higher costs and less access to credit? With the direction we're currently headed, those roadside signs should be switched from "Farmers Feed Cities" to "Farmers Feed Cars".
  74. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Throwing money at the problem won’t help. Will the manufacturers start building better products for less money? Will the auto workers unions agree to lower workers pay in order to become competitive. The answer is probably not. Perhaps if the so called big three were allowed to collapse completely, to be rebuilt again in another better managed form, may be the only solution. It’s too bad that the workers will suffer because of the manufacturers and unions lack of foresight and bad judgement.
  75. Bobby Boy from Canada writes: @ William Gillies:

    You say "...Are you prepared to see that kind of social upheavel?"

    Absolutely. The auto industry will survive, because people want vehicles. Whether or not the domestic auto manufacturers will survive is an entirely different question. I for one am not prepared to bail out corporations just because they design and make products no one wants.
  76. Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: "Detroit Three want Clement, McGuinty to provide aid ahead of today's results they say will test industry's ability to survive"

    Last time I checked, Detroit was not in Canada. Why would these foreign corporations expect handouts? Are Toyota and Honda, who also have branch plants in Canada, looking for subsidies?

    Furthermore, why would our governments pour money into companies who manufacture products nobody is buying? It makes no more sense than government subsidies for the horse and buggy industry.
  77. ANONY MOOSE from Timmins, writes: If Dalton gives one red penny to the failing auto industry who by the way has been producing junk for the last 30 years, he can kiss any hope of relection next time.
  78. More Bambi's Down from Canada writes: We all know Dalty Boy wil want to throw money at them.... he doesn't know how to do anything else. Hasn't got any balls either.

    Don't THINK Harper'd be stupid enough to throw money at the Companies..... hope not.
  79. Ontario Man from Canada writes: how else are they going to make and sell a V8 Camaro without taxpayer money.

    let those idiots sink, and yes it will hurt the economy, in the short term, but sometimes a little pain is better then a terminal disease.
  80. Hydro Glen from United States writes: If you wish to rant on about letting the North American three die, rock on dudes. They'll be coming for the rest of our anachronistic white collar sales, service, medical, or IT job soon, once the imports realize that the market and money has dried up here too. Your Fits and Yarii already come from China and Korea. I'm sure there are a lot of middle management jobs waiting for all of us to handle resource export (scrap metal and construction debris from our reposessed homes and cars) to booming economies elsewhere. Where would those booming economies be exactly?

    The North American three provide many more manufacturing and supplier jobs in the US and Canada than the comparable Toyota and Honda manufacturing jobs. So your purchase of Hondas and Toyotas are like applying a leach to North American industrial output; those cars even import more parts for the parts they claim as domestic content. If you want the North American three to turn on a proverbial dime and crank out fuel efficient cars with lower pollution and carbon burdens, this is what the bailout is for. If however, you prefer the higher polluting Civics, Corrollas, and Fits (check out the numbers at Fueleconomy.gov; their emissions of smog pollutants are often 50 percent higher to double what comes from a comparable Focus or Cobalt), then by all means, see you and your kids at the next ozone no-outside exercise day. I need to leave now for work at my non-automotive job in Indianapolis; I'll be driving my 187,000 mile (299,000 kilometre) Ford.
  81. Anthony Ward from Canada writes: The government would be better off creating "make work" jobs or offering voluntary re-training programs and directly paying to laid off employess the salaries and benefits that they had received working for the Big 3, instead of sinking the much larger billions into companies that have had 30 years to get it right -- and still haven't.

    These CEO's and Boards of Directors are grown up boys and girls. Time to expect them to act like it.

    You don't see Toyota looking for a handout.
  82. William J Gillies from Canada writes: Bobby Boy from Canada writes: You say "...Are you prepared to see that kind of social upheavel?"

    That was a quote from R. M. from Regina. My point, perhaps too subtle, was that the world needs to get off its addiction to oil. It won't be easy, but the longer we leave the more desparate the situation will become. Reality bites.
  83. Ontario Man from Canada writes: Let's not buy the scare tactics that these companies are selling.

    The big three will not cease to exist if they invoke bankruptcy protection. The assets they hold are still valuable and will be sold and put to use under new management and new ownership.
  84. Ontario Man from Canada writes: NO MONEY TO "FOR PROFIT" CORPORATIONS!!!!

    We might as well send every shareholder a check from the taxpayer!

    Let capitalism sort it out, the weak and stupid will sink (V8 Camaro???), the intelligent innovative will survive.
  85. Fred Draper from Kingston, Canada writes: 1. How's government money going to address the cash burn issues?
    2. Where is the US on this? We can't do it alone.
    3. What about the part suppliers? They're the ones not getting paid?

    In for a little... In for a lot, unless and until you're prepared to write-off the principal down the road. The $1 billion will look silly if the requirement is $10 billion-$100 billion. We don't know that, particularly if the thing is rushed.

    The secret is not to get involved, even for a little, in the frst place,

    I like the idea of using the money for debtor-in-possession financing down the road. Then we at least know we're in first position and the Big 3 can reduce their post retirement benefits (which is what's really kinning them)

    Romanow said it best: No deal unless there's a whole deal.
  86. John Connor from Canada writes: The Big 3 can try a new tactic.
    Build cars that are sound, affordable and good to drive.
    And above all,
    be profitable.
    Enough has been poured down this black hole already.
    Taxpayers should not have to continually bail out an industry that does not get the message that they need to change their approach.
    Get lost.
  87. George Levecque from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: Canada should not give "loans" any Foreign maker of Vehicles imho!
    You will soon see that the USA will bring all there Auto jobs back to the Motherland in any case!
    The only two reasons they came here in the first place was our low dollar and our health care! Now that they have there "Verb" in place they dont need to produce vehicles here anymore
  88. Fred Draper from Kingston, Canada writes: The auto industry is a great industry with great spinoffs.

    I don't see how direct government aid will get the consumer buying cars in general, and North American cars in particular.
  89. Serge M from Montreal, Canada writes: It's time for these dinosaurs to dissappear so that something new, efficient and a lot smarter take over. It always does and for the better.
  90. J Hanner from London, Ontario, Canada writes: There are thousands of small businesses struggling to have ends meet.

    Where is the bailout money for them.

    Look at the wages these non-skilled workers get and worse, take a look at the salaries that the "management" is raking in to supposedly run these companies into the ground.

    Let them all go bankrupt and then people will pick up the pieces. There will be no shortage of cars and trucks and we will clean out the deadwood.
  91. Scare Crow from Canada writes: And pray what will that loan do? You can throw a billion or two but the real issue is demand. No one wants to buy the current models being produced in the market. Auto market in the US is currently depressed across the board. Even the US gov't declined to give anything to the big three and expect them to merge instead and come out leaner and stronger.
    If we ever need to subsidize any industry it should be on the notion that it is really critical, It will give us an edge in an industry that we are very competitive that kind of thing. For Auto makers, sorry your time in the public trough is over.
  92. Bruce Hansen from Canada writes: hmm what about forestry, mining , agricultrure , fisheries and the pension funds eh jimmy? who is left to pay? just failing oil? time to actually go to work for real - forget the cash handouts
  93. Reality Check from Golf green on Bloor St., Canada writes: The NEW BIG 3 are Toyota, Honda & Nissan - better cars and they don't have their hand out. Time to move on.
  94. R Hopkins from Edmonton, Canada writes: We need a slowdown to cull the weak. I contacted the maker of Orijen pet food, and they couldn't even be bothered to get back to me! Do they put as much care into quality control as they do customer service? Enough of bailing these guys out. Let the strong survive & don't reward incompetance.
  95. Edward Carson from Canada writes: Let the Big 3 die out. If they were truly the Big 3 they would survive. Take all those billions and either finance industries that you know will stay in Canada, ie logging, fisheries etc, or create new industries.
    The Ford plant in Brazil seems to run efficiently and productively but the UAW won't allow that style of production into the US or Canada.

    http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
  96. Midtown Boy from Toronto, Canada writes: We should never be bailing out foreign companies with Canadian tax payers money. It's that simple. If they can't survive then they fall and perhaps this is the price we pay for our government allowing our industies to be foreign owned. There are lots of Canadian industries that would create more jobs if sufficent funding were available. If we have to bail anyone out let's use the money to strengthen Canadian industry, create Canadian jobs and not be beholding to foreign companies in the future. We also need to change our foreign ownership rules to ensure that any money we invest in Canadian industry today, stays owned by Canadians in the long term.
  97. gary graham from sasktoon sask, Canada writes: HI : THE BIG THREE IN CANADA HAVE TO START PRODUCING CARS THAT THE MARKET DEMANDS WITHOUT THAT THEY WILL SURVIVE BUT I AGREE THAT IT IS INVESTMENT TO HELP THEM BUT WITH THE PROVISION TO PAY BACK ONCE THAT RETURN TO PROFITABILTY LIKE
    ICCAO DID FOR CHRYSLER IN THE USA IN 1979.

    GARY GRAHAM
    SASKATOON, SASK EMAIL:GARYWGRAHAM@SASKTEL.NET
  98. Ontario Man from Canada writes: a poster above said it best

    "You don't see Toyota looking for a handout."
  99. s c from Canada writes: The government needs to carefuly weigh any options.
    Cars are not going to disappear. If one or two car makers go under, the slack will need to be picked up by other car makers. Terminations by one car maker will be offset by hiring at another car maker. It is also important to realize that ther is no such thing as a Canadian car maker - every car manufacturer is headquartered in another country - and most of them have operations in canada that make cars (GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, ...). The government should not pick anc choose which firms to support - support them all if it is in the best interests of Canada or support none of them.
  100. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent but always blames somebody else., Canada writes: I hope all the critics are back here later when the gov't gives some aid to the big 3....
  101. Ontario Man from Canada writes: C. M. from London, Ontario, Canada writes: So what kind of a massive wage and benefit cut are the CAW offering ? I don't seem to hear anything on that.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    any government support should only be offered after substantial concessions form management and unions.
  102. D W from Canada writes: I had a 1999 new Durango that was nothing but trouble.....I accept that anything mechanical can and will have trouble eventually but getting things fixed under warranty was a non stop battle and this thing had a list price in the mid $40's. To this day I still talk about this vehicle and the treatment I received from Dodge Chrysler and the dealer. Calling the 800 number in the owners manual got no support of any kind. After the experience with this vehicle I went to Japanese and have not been sorry.
  103. A Toonie abroad from Paris, France writes: It is interesting that after Wall Street, the US Banks, now the Auto Makers and Auto parts industry - all BIG opponents of government regulation in good times now come hat in hand (and in unison) for some more freebies from their favorite Nanny state.

    Let them collectively pay off their previous broken commitments before any RED cent is paid to them again.
  104. Adam Brunette from Montreal, Canada writes: The three companies were so short-sighted in the 90's - they got lazy, built poor quality cars, charged a fortune for them, and are now paying the price as people know that Toyota and Honda are an overall better product. The Japanese auto makers have been smart to put money into small cars and new fuel technologies - the Big Three really missed the boat - I'm thinking GM and the EV1 - and now they're wanting Canadians to lick their wounds. I have no sympathy for them.
  105. Durward Saar from Canada writes: How is it a competative free market if we don't let the losers die?
    Funny how those that pushed for the "global village " are being killed by it.
    PS. All cars are foreign in Canada, we build cars for foreign companies,we don't make them ourselves and should not be bailing out foreign companies.
    Ontario needs McGuinty to grow up and lower it's taxes!
  106. Tom Saunders from Canada writes: Ottawa does not care about jobs in Ontario. They have proven they can ignore this province completely and there are still enough fools living here who would vote for them anyway. They are more satisfied seeing Ontario chopped down to size to increase Western Canadian influence in this country, so they are not about to start helping the auto industry now any more than they have been for the past few years.
  107. Ontario Man from Canada writes: Let's remember Chrysler in now owned by a private investment company. Who bought Chrysler cheap knowing the risks in the hopes of making a quick and lucrative profit. They knew the risks.

    No, I don't think they should be getting any taxpayer support. That's an outrageous suggestion.
  108. The Central Screwtinizer from Ottawawa, Canada writes: FOGETABOUTIT! How much profit did these so-called BIG THREE make in the past 20 years? How much of the profit went to BIG BONUSES for BIG TALKERS to cash in MONSTER PAYCHECKS and BIG OPTIONS...come on now...the taxpayer does not need to get fleeced by these fast talking car salesmen...ARE YOU COLLECTIVELY INSANE...? Why doesn't Canada use some of these closed down plants and design its own cars. We must have some kind of collective know how you would think after making automobiles and parts in Canada for the past 50 years....you would think! I'd be in talks with Magna to make Canadian cars in Canada...everyone's economies seem to be headed for the crapper in a big way except Canada...let's make our own autos...we have the engineers, the mining metal industries, the factories, the workers, the oil, the money...HELLO, ANYBODY THERE!?!
  109. C R from Canada writes:

    How about the big3 get competative and begin making something that Canadians can buy. Its a very spoiled corporate attitude that says the gov must prop up an industry that no longer meets the desires of its consumers.

    I also think the feds promised Ford 80million for newer and more efficiant vehicles?
  110. Mervin Hollingsworth from Saskatoon, Sk., Canada writes: The 3 automakers never asked the government if they could build cars that were of shoddy construction or build product not wanted by consumers. The automakers did not ask the government when they caved to union demands for higher wages and benefits than foreign auto makers. The automakers have continued with their old, outdated ways year after year despite mounting evidence, that consumer preferences were changing. So now the chickens have come home to roost and they are asking for a bail out. That is not how a free market society works. They have got themselves into this pickle and they have to get themselves out of it. The industry is obviously changing and maybe the 3 automakers need to be only one etc. etc. It is up to those companies to figure out how they can survive. It is not up to the taxpayers to fund losses and to keep mature industries in business when there is limited demand for their products. I do feel bad for the workers who will suffer. However, they are part of the problem when they allow their unions and the car companies to make deals that are unsustainable. It is up to the government to ensure there are jobs being created within the country, employment insurance benefits are reasonable and that re-training is available. That's it. Canadians will not stand for the government giving money to losing corporations. That was tried in the 80"s early 90's and very few of those companies survived i.e. John Deere or Massey Feguson. Throwing good money after bad is not the answer. Its a temporary quick fix but that's it. So the automakers better put their heads together and figure out a solution. Time is awasting and I don't know how much time they have but with consumer confidence waning they better put the foot to the medal.
  111. Andrew Pakula from Caledon, Canada writes: If they can't survive without government handouts then they deserve to fail. The government should not be in the business of constantly propping up failing businesses. Also as a tax payer I don't want my money going to overpaid lazy union members with no skills.
  112. Kim Morton from Canada writes: Where is the commitment to building a quality product that consumers want? If they are short of cash they could cut their advertising budgets that push rust buckets that nobody wants. Until the big their and their union clean up their act we most certainly do not want to bail tham out when we don't want their product.
  113. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bring back Dr. Z!!
  114. D P from Oakville, Canada writes: Andrew from Caledon I totally agree with you. If Toyota and Honda can't profit without the support of the Japanese government they should be left on their own. It was Henry Ford who taught Mr Toyoda how to build a car. Also as I recall Ford was the largest manufacturer in japan up until the Japanese government banned foreign manufactures. How do you think Toyota and Honda got where they are and how and where Hyundai wants to be. It was most definately not through free market capitalism. Subsidization is the name of the game these days for the "domestics".
  115. Ryan N. from Brampton, Canada writes: Know why Toyota, Honda and Nissan aren't asking our Govt. for money? They aren't asking because they are protected by the JPAPNESE Govt.
    Ever have to borrow money off your parents? Same concept people.
  116. D P from Oakville, Canada writes: Ryan N. by the way Toyota took the money from the Canadian federal and Provincial governments for their Woodstock plant, which has been halted to one shift, and oh ya a one shift plant is most definately not profitable. Just another subsidized government plan gone down the toilet.
  117. daryl M from calgary, Canada writes: Governments, please don't feed the dinosaurs. Let nature run it's course.
  118. Cyril Rufus from Toronto, Canada writes: I am a retired pensioner living in Toronto. As early retirement was long a desirable goal in life, I have never owned a car. That paid for about a third of the total cost.

    The American car manufacturers in Canada have given wonderful pay and benifit packages for relatively low skilled work to the unions, and unions now want to maintain their jobs on ths public dole. It would be better to let the companies go broke and new enterprises arise in their ashes.
  119. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Declining auto sales in the US should be an indication of the size of the problem. See: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200811031835DOWJONESDJONLINE000598_FORTUNE5.htm for an indication.

    When new car sales are down an average of 32% for both 'foreign' and 'domestic' manufacturers, any bailout will have to be large and ongoing. However, trying to sell any taxpayer on the idea that they should be subsidizing a vehicle they can't afford to buy or operate will be a hard sell both in Canada and the US. Combine declining sales with declining use and you have the makings of a 'perfect storm' for auto manufacturers.

    Like it or not, manufacturers will have to scale back their operations, not only here, but all around the world. That will mean a loss of jobs and the closing of plants. The best we can do is control the rate of shrinkage to minimize the effect on the economy. So, should be provide loans or guarantees to the so-called Big 3? Only if or when they lay out a business plan that takes into account present financial realities and relies more on sound business practises and less on government handouts.
  120. Frangesco Bernard from Windsor, Canada writes: These real Good Canadian citizens speaking LOVE for Canada They like to help other countries but not their own. Every time a Japanese car is sold in Canada, that profit goes to Japan; or wherever the other cars come from, that money is going to that country.
    Glad to have citizens like these, (being sarcastic).
  121. D. Hall from Canada writes: No bailouts to these dinasaurs. They have produced low quality cars that were designed for and marketed to a declining share of the population - rural, male, macho. Now they pay the price.

    As for the union bashing - it's BS. I bought Toyotas and Suburus because they were better cars and I paid a premium for them. I hope CAW can unionize them soon. The problem is bad management in some foreign companies - like Ford and GM - versus good management in other foreign companies - like Toyota and Honda.

    Let GM and Ford go bankrupt if that is what the market decides. But do not give my tax dollars to incompetent bunglers to waste while they put off adapting for another few years.
  122. r mc from Toronto, Canada writes: If large corporations can't get loans from any other high risk lenders, why should the taxpayer be the lender or guaratntor of last resort? There is just high risk on the loan and no upside. If money is to go in, take a substantial equity stake so that if the company recovers the taxpayer gets a return that reflects the risk taken. Sell the shares after the recovery. That is exactly what a private high risk financier would do. Get a seat(s) on the board too. Do I like the idea of the government owning large parts of businesses? Absolutely not! But if government is to bail out businesses in severe trouble with taxpayer money that is the only way to do it. If the business goes under, any bail out money , no matter how put in , will be lost anyway.
  123. Greg Out West from Canada writes: Saskatchewan Seal Hunters Assoc. from Canada writes: The auto industry is bullsh*t to begin with. First of all they want loans just to "test" the ability to survive?????????? No way. They expect people to keep buying new autos every few years. People just can't afford this anymore. What ever happened to people running their vecihles for 15 years or more?
    ----------------------------------
    Have you seen the crap they produce today ? They don't even want to cover the car for three years anymore.
  124. george erfle from turner valley, Canada writes: IB bailout - Isn't that what the CEO's pay themsevles (Or More) every year. If they think there company is worthwhile, they should invest in themselves I would Think. What an idea. Will never happen. One year without a bonus. As Dr. Phil would say "what was I thinking"
  125. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: A lot of related plants in Britian and Europe are planning to close, if they have not already closed and that tells me that the same will happen here within a year.

    I am concerned about those people driving cars by these manufacturers who might be stuck for parts or repairs after the closings; I don't think we have experienced this kind of disaster before ???

    I hope the Government realizes that if people cannot afford to drive cars which might be unaffordable or in poor repair, the rural residents will be stuck for getting to medical appointments, etc. because THERE IS NO BUS SERVICE IN MOST PLACES AND SENIORS IN PARTICULAR ARE VERY VUNERABLE IN THIS REGARD.

    NOW IS THE TIME TO WAKE UP AND THINK ABOUT THIS CALAMITY.
  126. J. Daniel Murray from Welland, Canada writes: I am very disappointed in the comments that I have read. Why is there such contempt for the North American Auto industry and the people it employs ? Are People just writing for the sack of writing? It is obvious that some of these writers haven't driven a domestic car in a while and have no idea at all of what their writing about. The big three are very very important to the North American economy and without them our way of life would collapse . If the foreign auto manufactures were to collapse the impact would be minimal as they do not support 5 to 7 jobs like the bid three do. They basically assemble vehicles here only, and contribute far less to our economy. Also unionized auto production is the most productive despite what people think and our GM plants in Canada are second to none in productivity and quality. People, wake up and smell the coffee!! if we let our big three fail without finical help, well you think there is a Global economic crises now... wait till millions upon millions more people become unemployed more foreclosures. Thats not what we want.
  127. S H from Windsor, Canada writes: J.Daniel Murray...... You got it. People in this country have the attitude, out of sight....out of mind. If it doesn't effect them, who cares! Canadians aren't too bright. If the big 3 go out of business, millions of jobs will be lost and the Japanese company's will fold too because the suppliers will be gone. The Japanese don't give the suppliers enough business for them to stay open. Honda and Toyota plants will come to a screaching halt and those employees will be out of work as well. The big 3 make great cars, most posters compare vehicles from 15-20 yrs. ago. My brothers 1990 Nissan Pulsar was an expensive piece of junk too. We have to ask ourselves, what would happen if cars lasted for 25 years?
  128. David Basskin from toronto, Canada writes: I said years ago that the big 3 C E O's and directors should get out of Grosse Pointe once in a while and work in a dealership. They spoke only to each other, met and played at the same clubs and forgot their customers. They really don't want to think about their reaction to the concept of imports. And I have read enough about the U A W and C A W auto workers. How many times did we read"don't buy a car made on a Friday or Monday. How many employees have to be kept on full pay and stay home because of their contracts? Meet the real word.
  129. Plain Joe from Canada writes: NEWS FLASH:

    50 Billion aid announced in USA..Canada is next.

    Great news for auto sector!
  130. W N from United States writes: I think GM should file for Chapter 11, why?
    1) They can shed all their legacy liabilities
    2) They can shed the excess dealers
    3) Chrysler will follow suit, then Ford
    3) They will immediately stop paying their suppliers and shut them down: Magna, Delphi,Lear, Johson Control, Bosh...etc.
    4) These suppliers will then shut down the transplants from Honda, and Toyota.
    5) The people who work directly in the auto industry will be out of work.
    6) Then the ad agencies, the IT suppliers like IBM, HP,Dell, Microsoft will get a big hit, the health care industry will get a hit (employers pay for the health insurance in the US), the lawyers who like to sue the big 3 will be out too. When this is all said and done, 2 -3 millions people will loose their job and start collecting UI. Unemployemnt figure will skyrocket, and the stock market will tumble further.
    7) One good thing for those who hate domestic stuffs. Toyota, Honda and others will still in business, but since they won't have any local suppliers, they will import everything from abroad. They will also jack up the price since there will be much less competition.
    8)Hey, no one will be bashing the domestic 3 anymore.
  131. Misery No one from Toronto, Canada writes: The unions have been squeezing the companies like lemons, now there's no more juice left.
  132. Plain Joe from Canada writes: ^^^ Nonsense, spoken like someone who has never seen the actual balance sheets. Employee costs, including legacy are a small percentage of overall costs. They companies need to develop a better marketing plan instead of cutting employee costs.
  133. W N from United States writes: Plain Joe, This is from 2007 GM's annual report. "Consider that from 1993 through 2007, GM has spent a total of $103 billion in the U.S. to fund legacy pensions and retiree healthcare – an average of about $7 billion a year – a dramatic competitive and cash-flow disadvantage." I guess 7 billions is a small cost to you.
  134. Plain Joe from Canada writes: Glad you decided to aggragate the period from 93 to 07 to give us that scary grand total. Why didn't you just go back 50 years while your at it? Could you please provide the actual revenues as well for that 14 year period? You will find the revenue total staggering!

    Lets reexamine your previously ludicrous and hyper-capitalist solution:

    "1) They can shed ALL their legacy liabilities"

    No mention of salaried workers? Whenever I hear the word ALL as it relates to labour, it makes my job a lot easier. How about they shed all of their white collar and salaried staff who are incompetent and got us into this mess?

    How about a potential renegotiation of such things as legacy health care (which has been happening the last few years because of union goodwill) as a compromise instead of the blatant elimination of an entire organization and everything it has fought HARD to achieve over the years?

    It is our right to unionize in north america whether you like it or not. Provide us with a good living or meet us behind your gated communities. We don't respond to "let them eat cake" any better than in france when the queen lost her head.

    Hopefully now a new democratic gov't in the USA will move closer to a European style socialism where most people don't mind corporate regulations and generous benefits in the interest of social justice. You have been either brainwashed, or are a part of the actual problem (ie: greedy capitalist or ruling 2%).

    Perhaps we are entering a new revolution where the masses recognized that they have been defrauded and abused--perhaps a re balancing of the wealth is in order. Can't wait to hear the cries of bloody murder by the immoral NAFTA cabal at that point.
  135. W N from United States writes: I simply quoted what was on the annual report. The legacy cost includes both blue and white collar. I did not single out the UAW or CAW. You also completely missed my points. I was being sacarcstic. The meaning behind 1) was that all these retirees who get pension and health care from GM will suddendly get nothing and will have no money to spend. Consumer spending is a driving force of the economy, and this wil lhave an impact. Read between the lines before you accuse someone of being in the 2% greedy capitalist. It is unfortunate that I don't qualify in that class.
  136. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Plain Joe from Canada writes: "Hopefully now a new democratic gov't in the USA will move closer to a European style socialism where most people don't mind corporate regulations and generous benefits in the interest of social justice."

    ========================================

    You do of course realize that the democrats in the US are FAR to the right of even the conservatives here, don't you?
  137. Joseph Pileggi from Toronto, Canada writes: I would love to help the people in Windsor, Oakville, and Oshawa, but I do not know how this would resolve the problem that exists in the U.S.

    If the U.S. was healthy we probably would not have the problem.

    The other issue, and there is no way around this one, is that the big three are building vehicles that people do not want.
  138. Plain Joe from Canada writes: Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Plain Joe from Canada writes: "Hopefully now a new democratic gov't in the USA will move closer to a European style socialism where most people don't mind corporate regulations and generous benefits in the interest of social justice."

    ========================================

    You do of course realize that the democrats in the US are FAR to the right of even the conservatives here, don't you?

    Why don't you elaborate?
  139. david tarbuck from Ukraine writes: NO MONEY for these corporate welfare bums! Wait till they are under Chapter 11 protection!

    A North American 16 million unit auto market ought to be down sized to 5 million or thereabouts. That might be a sustainable number.

    The above does not mean I am immune to the needs of workers and communities affected; they need and should receive any money that is availible.

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