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Shifting Sands: Part III

Why Cape Breton shakes in the echo of this distant boom

SINCLAIR STEWART

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 2:09 PM EST 29/01/08

As young adults from the East race to high-paying jobs in the West, they leave behind worried towns. ...Read the full article

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  1. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I will always wonder whether forcing increased migration from Atlantic Canada to Alberta was the true motivation behind the CPC flip flop/betrayal on the Atlantic Accord?

    It has never been explained to us in the 'culture of defeat' as to why that stunt was attempted in the first place.
  2. Gary Thomson from Surrey, BC, Canada writes: People from the East have been flocking to BC and Alta for employment for years. Far better that they work some in Alta. and return with their wages and invest it in their communities than they stay in Alta. and become just another self-righteous, right wing a__hole.
  3. martha stewart from Canada writes: Lets blame Alberta for EVERYTHING. So much simpler that way. If only these people could have stayed back east on welfare it would all be so much better...
  4. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: So the dart leagues are decimated, the taverns are empty and the card tables are abandoned. Looks like they lost a way of life fueled by EI. Welcome to the real world.....
  5. ralph klein from wild rose country, Canada writes: An eastern hymn

    Alberta is the promised land, or so we have been told-
    Though they rape the land for texas tea , they pave their streets with gold.

    Their politicians shriek , they shout, ' heed us , draw near , turn right'-
    and we outside , we stoop , we strain-- resist with all our might.

    In truth it is a mere red state , a backward land the've found-
    but as i type my bags are packed for Calgary i am bound.
  6. A Big Black Dog With Two Tails from Leduc County AB ex St. John's, Canada writes: New England was referred to as The Boston States when that was the preferred destination for economic emmigrants leaving Atlantic Canada. Then it was Tronna. It's been Fort Mac for decades. Plus ca change, plus la meme chose. In addition, churches are dying in rural Alberta and several times a year there's a story in the Edmonton papers about another school shutting its doors, even as the birth rate elevates.
  7. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Martha Stewart writes:

    'If only these people could have stayed back on welfare it would all be so much better...'

    No, Martha -- If only these people could have been left to benefit their own resources, control their own ports and territorial waters, employ a fraction of the university educated students that they export to the rest of the World... the region might be as well off as it was before Confederation...

    I only blame Albertans when they do things that are stupid!
  8. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: The Maritimes are looking a lot like old Ireland - an unspoiled place with a pleasant population, and many living and working elsewhere.

    If they can appreciate what they've got, they should keep it that way and enjoy. There aren't many places left like that in the industrialized world.
  9. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Chris E. from vancouver, Canada:

    Although a Newfoundlander, Ron Hynes said it best for a number of Atlantic Canadians:

    'I don't want to leave
    But you can't live for free
    You can't eat the air
    And you can't drink the sea...'

    Old Ireland and Atlantic Canada have corny songs in common too.
  10. Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: Yes this is really the blame game brought to you by Toronto/Ottawa globe and mail pseudo intellos! A province, PEI, a Province? Let me laugh, a little town perhaps... Atlantic Canada, why don't you cut the number of politicians, civil servants that your micro provinces employ? Might get you somewhere, less expenses, less taxes and some dead wood unloaded! Become one Province, administer yourself and stop relying on Ottawa for everything! If you complain that your youth is going west for employment, beware we'll get people from elsewhere so they can get their wellfare cheque courtesy Albertans... Time for the West to separate from this joke of a country called Canada, separation from the central Canada diktat always served by CPC or Liberals, the buying off Maritimes game every elections, the hypocrisy, the Harper who comes from Calgary but serves the Manulife and BCE of Toronto! Separation! From the Liberal/CPC/NDP Quebec vote buying corrupt bunch and their media lackeys including this rag! Separation! Separation!
  11. ghostofpatbuchanen buchanen from Victoria, Canada writes: The Maritimes got absolutely bent over by Upper and Lower Canada but Stephen Harper is not John A McDonald. Harper was on the nose when he said there was a culture of defeat in Atlantic Canada. This story ends with the anecdote that illustrates it. A guy's two elder kids are succeeding in Alberta but he wrangles back his youngest daughter so she can be a loser in Eastern Canada instead of a productive worker in the West.
    And yes, I'm a self-righteous Albertan a_hole. Better that than a lazy, indolent, self-righteous tree-hugging, enviro-wacko from the world's armpit, aka Surrey.
  12. Flames Forever from Canada writes: Hey Gary Thomson..you don't like Albertans??...what does BC stand for ??bring cash.. and we have plenty of it to fuel your economy
  13. CatMan Due from Canada writes: I grew up in Alberta, as did both of my parents and two grandparents. I am so grateful that the people from Atlantic Canada have come here to help build the province. I am also pleased to know that every single Canadian that moves here also has the added plus of making Alberta need one less immigrant from wherever. I hope more Atlantic Canadians move out here, so the idiots in government, the chambers of commerce, small business, large business can stop whining about more immigration for Alberta. We need to get balance back, so the immigrants start migrating back to Hong-couver and Northern Jamaica Quebec and the next great Muslim city Toronto.
  14. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada:

    I liked your idea of cutting the number of politicians, but then you lost me when you went into the old semi-hysterical Albertan rant about freeing Alberta that always make me laugh... Free Alberta for what? Further corporate exploitation and uncontrolled growth that it already cannot handle?

    What is it in your day to day life that makes you not free as an Albertan?

    PS. I hear that it is 48 degrees colder in Calgary than Halifax --

    Perhaps Albertan crankiness and temperature are inversely proportional...
  15. John Birmingham from Calgoronto, Canada writes: So much for Harpers 'culture of defeat'. Capers have been following jobs in the ROC for years. Hardly defeatist.

    So many people here have ties to the Maritimes and central Canada, here in Alberta, that fortunately the A_holes that think its 'theirs' are quickly becoming a silenced minority. Alberta's simply fortunate to be sitting on oil. Some nutbars seem to think they're 'better' because they were born with a particular natural resourse. Weird.

    I was a JT's Pub this fall. Fun place. Full of I gather University students. Was actually chatting with I think guy in the article.
  16. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: John Birmingham from Calgaronto, Canada:

    Exactly -- which I why I keep telling the Ralph Klein types on these threads that if we sneeze, Alberta will catch a cold!

    Maybe, they haven't actually figured out that a lot of our 'creeps and bums' from the 'Culture of Defeat' can actually vote in Alberta's elections...
  17. Carlos Nadie from Anytown, Canada writes: ghostofpatbuchanen buchanen from Victoria: This story ends with the anecdote that illustrates it. A guy's two elder kids are succeeding in Alberta but he wrangles back his youngest daughter so she can be a loser in Eastern Canada instead of a productive worker in the West.' Been sniffing those oil and gas fumes a bit too much, ghost? There are lots of jobs, and productive people here in NS. People may like the money in AB, but many also have the good sense to buy property - and otherwise invest in - their eastern home for when they get the chance to go home. AB may represent jobs and money, but NS is home, and family. When my wife and I retired to NS, the most envious were the transplanted maritimers who were pretty well unanimous in their wish to move home.
  18. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: No real story here. Farming communities all over the Country are now ghost towns as a result of the young leaving for the cities.

    Migration within our own Country helps keep it strong. I for one am very glad that we have the Alberta boom going on when the manufacturing sector is suffering.

    Hopefully when the Alberta boom goes bust, another part of the Canada will take its place.
  19. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: I agree with Proud Canadian. All of us born here are the product of people who moved off the land, sometime from somewhere.

    Don't know why a story about emigration from the maritimes to Alberta led to attacks on Ontario, and charges that Ontario stold Maritime prosperity. When I remember back to grade 8 history, I think that part of the deal at confederation was that 'Canada' assumed the debt of Lower Canada and the Maritime colonies. Ditto with other provinces. Ontario's debt wasn't assumed because it didn't have any. If Ontario stold prosperity it was from Michigan and Ohio, and it has more to do with decisions made in Detroit than by some secret cabal in Ottawa.
  20. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: The oil sands economy has more than provided an escape from chronic Maritime unemployment .The wages paid in Alberta are so much higher than in the maritimes, that people are chucking what were considered decent jobs to make a killing in Fort Mac .Profitable businesses in my community have closed, because their owners have gone west .I even know of a millionaire loto winner , who has gone west to make more money .
    The situation has allowed governments to turn a blind eye to maritime de-economy.
    Not only do the tar sands produce the worlds most carbon intensive fuel, it has also created the worlds most carbon intensive work force commute,home to the maritimes every three weeks.
  21. Chris Eaton from Fredericton, NB, writes: What the article and commenters all leave out of this is that Maritime cities are not suffering from this in the same way. In fact places like Moncton and Fredericton are doing well. They're not growing at Alberta speeds, but they are growing with decent economies.

    The rural way of life is dying off here in New Brunswick, but its not entirely to do with Alberta. Its simply people following the jobs, and the jobs aren't in rural areas.

    (Its really a shame so many people leave. I came from Toronto to live out here instead, and you couldn't make me go back for all the money in the world. I make enough to have a decent living, and you can't beat the friendly people and quality of life.)
  22. david beed from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: Winston says Ontario had no debt at the time of confederation which is true . Ontario at the time of confederation also had no capital. Nova Scotia had 50% of Canada's liquid assets at the time of confederation .Within two short decades the new federal government made sure through tarrifs and a western focused immigration policy that the only way Nova Scotia industrialists could make wealth in the new Canada was to invest west.
    Remember please the real reason Canada came together .The United States had just finished their civil war and still possessed a huge and experianced warlike population.The British colonies north of America felt stronger together than as individuals.The people of Nova Scotia had become weathy off of the American war by replacing the coastal shipping fleets that were the 19th century superhighways.The Nova Scotia shipping fleet was the fourth largest in the world in the 1860s.It is only since the implementation of the free trade agreement that these natural trade patterns have started to be rebuilt.
  23. Rae Vandenberg from Canada writes: In my mind I am contrasting this story with the ones about no opportunities on Native reserves. People move where the jobs are - even if it means leaving family behind. That's always been the case.
  24. Rae Underhill from Toronto, Canada writes: I am amazed that in 2008, there are those that still carry the opinion that Maritimers are lazy, alcoholics on welfare with an attitude of defeatism. Supposedly intelligent people with opinions of Maritimers but who have never lived or worked there. And who I suppose base their opinions of us on the trailer park boys.
    I grew up in the Maritimes. I went to school, university and have been working since I was 16. I come from a hard-working family, truck drivers, electricians, pulp and paper workers. Without which most of you would not have food on your tables, paper to write on and lights in your homes. My parents instilled in me a work ethic that is a common thread of fellow Martimers that I encounter while living here in Toronto. We leave because we want to work and come back to the place we call home. I am proud of my maritime roots and hold my head high.
  25. BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Well put Rae...the work ethic of Maritimers (and NF) is only matched by that of the rural Albertans...and that is from someone who has worked all across the country. My parents instilled a work ethic in me that has served me well (although we do differ on calling the Maritimes home....I left 15 years ago and when I go visit dad now there is nobody I know left in town so it no longer feels like home to me...that and the unfortunate resentment/envy against AB that has started to creep into some Maritimers...)
  26. Greg Ast from Nanoose Bay, Canada writes: Don't write stories about the hollowing out of Newfoundland without exposing the fact that thousands of ex pats are returning with cash made in the west and the south to buy a piece of the rock and retire.

    The retirement industry will be the second biggest industry in Canada by 2010. NFLD will do just fine with that industry because once born in Newfoundland, you will always return.
  27. david waye from Halifax, Canada writes: Martha Stewart From Canada, Once again you read into something that is not there. No one is blaming Alberta. There is simply a point being made about how Towns all over the country fight to stay alive at times when the young people have to move in order to STAY OF OF EI OR WELLFARE, YOU FOOL. At one time, Martha, Cape Breton had a greater work force per capital then most of Canada. It was big Business who came in, sucked what they wanted out and then left. And if you thing that this will not happen in Alberta or anywhere else in Canada, just wait. It has gone on and on and IT WILL KEEP GOING ON. So, don't you or anyone else be so smug about the people of Cape Breton, or Newfoundland or New Toronto for that matter. Yes, New Toronto, Where did all those big companies go. They just up and moved and if you wanted to keep your job, you had to move, if they let you. Get of your high horse, Sister.
  28. bill thecat from Canada writes: Here we go again. The usual rants from east and west coast for something that is just economic reality. I was in Argentia, Newfoundland a few years ago and a local was complaining about 70% unemployment, mainly due to the fishery moratorium. I felt sorry at first, then I looked around the town. Most people had nicely kept houses and relatively new vehicles. There was no poverty, no largess either, but no poverty. Then I realized how they got by. Keep in mind that this is 10 years into the fishery moratorium... most were living on the dole or assistance. FOR 10 years??? There comes a time when you have to admit that a community is no longer viable. If that means your sons and daughters must move, then so be it. The resentment that BC refugee cites above is unfortunate, since most of us here in Ab. enjoy the company of folks from the east (well maybe those east of Toronto), and welcome them here to share the economy. Sorry some of the folks above see this with bitterness and resentment, but they are probably the same people that are sitting in Argentia waiting for the Cod to return.
  29. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Everything isn't Alberta's fault. This has been the trend for the past 100 years, rural areas are dieing. What should we do about it, give everyone free EI cheques so they don't have to move to find work and can live off the rest of us? Come on. If there are no jobs there, the young will leave. Period.
  30. 4th Generation Loyalist from Toronto, Canada writes: I am from the Martitimes and have spent many summers in Calgary. Was there last weekend as a matter of fact. I have my Oldst brother living in Cowtown looking for work and my closest Cousin in Fort Mac. I love that Canadians are finding jobs within her borders! The real problem is that there is not enough technical education in schools from the time kids are 13yrs and on to show them that Trades work is valuable to the economy and to themselves. Instead they teach them to sit in front of a computer all day, Which I do within the construction industy mind you but if there was more focus on teaching pipe-fitting, welding, electrical, carpentry, etc etc then we'd all be better off. Why doesnt the Fed. Gov't look at this issue and mandate that ok, we are going to beef up that side of the education plate and give these kids and ourselves better options?

    Makes sense to me!

    I live in Toronto, NewBrunswick is Home, I'd love to spend my summers in Banff and long to Live in Kelowna and raise a family. I am a Canadian and I love all of her. Why can't everyone else???
  31. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: John Birmingham from Calgoronto, Canada writes: So many people here have ties to the Maritimes and central Canada, here in Alberta, that fortunately the A_holes that think its 'theirs' are quickly becoming a silenced minority. Alberta's simply fortunate to be sitting on oil.

    John that's what so many people like you can't figure out; the oil and resources aren't 'ours' as in only for Albertans.

    It is 'ours' in terms of who is actually putting in the work to bring the commodity to market.

    Anyone is welcome to come to Alberta to make a better living for themselves; no one in Alberta has an issue with that in fact we welcome it.

    For Canadians not participating I'm sorry but the oil isn't 'yours'. Don't worry though you still benefit tremendously from the boom. All the oil companies making record profits and workers making high wages pay lots of income tax. Income tax that gets redistributed across Canada in the form of equalization on top of that which is part of general revenues.
  32. Sue Hickey from Grand Falls-Windsor, Canada writes: I am lucky to be living here in Newfoundland. I know many, including friends and relatives, who are working in Alberta - AKA 'the sucking pit' - and the litany is the same: 'you don't go to Alberta and work to live, you just live to work.' None of them enjoy it in Alberta. They love the money but yearn for the Rock (that includes Labrador). There is almost a mystical attachment to the land (and I lived and visited many places outside NL and Canada) that I think is only really understood by our aboriginal peoples and to a lesser degree, Maritimers. Our spirit is here. I think you leave a part of it behind when you move away. Some say 'well in Alberta you can go to Calgary or Edmonton and you can visit Banff and Jasper and go skiing...' but they don't do those things. (And I don't like those cities...I've been there).
    Newfoundlanders have always gone away to work but they make it back here -in one form or another. People like 'Martha Stewart,' who fears to use a real name, don't seem to understand the mystical ties that link Newfoundlanders to the land and make fun of people who either want to stay here or dream of returning.
  33. Vern McPherson from writes: Sue Hickey from Grand Falls-Windsor, Canada writes

    A passionate and true assesment Sue. Thank you. It's unfortunate d others do not fully understand those sentiments.
  34. Vern McPherson from writes: Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: 10:20 :

    For once you make true statements. But remember Alberta owns it's resources because the issue was clarified when your province was broke and there was little or no oil production.

    It's become unfortunate some Albertans lecture others on politics and 'values and all that gear as if they came to believe they suddenly instinctively knew something the rest of us didn't once the oil and riches began to flow.
  35. bruce martin from Bear River NS, Canada writes: I just returned to Nova Scotia after a week of skiing in SE British Colombia. I grew up in the Maritimes but worked for many years in Saskatchewan, and travelled extensively throughout western Canada and the US. Although I moved back here for family reasons I really miss the can-do attitude of the west, the friendliness, lack of pretension, the variety of outdoor activities available, the positive attitude of the people and the ethnic diversity, not to mention the scenery and the wide-open spaces. There is a forward-looking feeling feeling in the west that contrasts to the backwardness that seems to characterize the Maritimes, an area that has never seen a new idea that they liked. Don't even get me started about the taxes and user fees that are imposed on us here because provincial governments can't stop trying to buy votes.

    I feel sorry for those people who prefer a comfortable mediocrity in familiar surroundings in the Atlantic provinces, and even more so for their children who will probably face the same out-migration pressures. I know I will end up back west as soon as possible.
  36. Vern McPherson from writes: Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Everything isn't Alberta's fault. This has been the trend for the past 100 years, rural areas are dieing. What should we do about it, give everyone free EI cheques so they don't have to move to find work and can live off the rest of us? Come on. If there are no jobs there, the young will leave. Period.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Jimmy of course its not Alberta's fault. It's no one's 'fault'. There is nothing new about people travelling to where there is work when no work to their liking is available where they happen to live. That has been going on for generations.

    I think the reporters were simply telling the story like it is. And the way it is is that that little town just got emptied out pretty much for very sound reasons. Don't forget production miners there earned a 100 grand easily prior to the mines closing so they are used to working and making money. And they were not Albertans. They did not have to migrate to Alberta to learn how to work. OK !!!

    To infer otherwise is missspeak LOL !!
  37. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: New Waterford may have built a shining new school in the seventies, but it was hurting plenty by the eighties. The out-migration isn't new to Cape Breton or many other communities in rural Canada.
    The unemployment rate in the cities in the Maritimes is better than it's been for generations - this doesnt help someone who lives in NW, which is a good 5 hours from Halifax.
    If youre going to move from home for a few months for temporary work, you can pick either Halifax or Fort Mac, but you'll make a third of what you'd make in Fort Mac by going to Halifax. Or Saint John or St. John's. Or Toronto.
    So you go to Fort Mac. The story here is that, unlike previous generations, if you leave home, you dont have to leave for good. Its all in the angle.
    Another angle might be, instead of another hoary old 'Cape Bretoner has to leave home to find work' article, how about an article on how this out-migration is now being seen from Southwestern Ontario, an area that would welcome some of the Maritime unemployment rates.
  38. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: What exactly was the point of this article.

    To point out the obvious?

    People have been leaving disadvantaged home towns since it became easy to travel. They have been leaving the Maritimes ever since the mines closed and the mines opened in Ontario.

    At least it shows people have initiative to go someplace to earn a living instead of sitting home bitching , collecting the pogey cheque.
  39. W Ross from Up North, Canada writes: An interesting counter to this story would be the one, albeit with much smaller numbers apparently, about the folks wanting to go back to the Maritimes and to a decent job. I moved West 8 years ago getting a job in ON as a successful IT manager. I've been trying to get back to NS for 2 years now to a similar position with no joy, despite 30 years IT experience and even willing to take slightly lesser pay (but a significant purchasing power and tax base).

    When there are open positions, and there aren't many advertised at least, I am treated as CFA (even to the point of someone telling me that I sent my CV from a 'bad address', i.e. one in ON). The provincial governments talk about programs to bring folks home, but that word isn't getting down to employers who still seem stuck in the CFA mentality. I may be just an old and gray IT 'boss' and we come a dime a dozen, but the same story is out in the trades as well and that is just not smart.

    So yes, folks move to where the work is and as long as the Maritime employers continue to have some of these old attitudes, they will find their towns clearing out of young people and solid earners permanently and filling up with retirees and foreign vacationers. Great for cyclical spending and not so good if you need your pipes fixed.
  40. Marty York from Canada writes: So what is the problem? I high tide floats all boats. Alot of money is coming back in to that community that otherwise would not have. People should go where the jobs are, rather than illusionary wealth with transfer payments and high taxes.
  41. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey, bottom line, there isn't much industry in these areas anymore after the mines closed, but we should be happy that these people are able to find work (very well paying work I might add) within another area of Canada where the 'mines' aren't closed at all. A little while ago I wouldn't be surprised if half of them took themselves, their skills, and their families to the United States (Boston), never to return.
  42. Matthew McGarvey from Ottawa, Canada writes: BC Refugee in AB from Canada writes: Well put Rae...the work ethic of Maritimers (and NF) is only matched by that of the rural Albertans...and that is from someone who has worked all across the country

    Nice, romantic and self-aggrandizing sentiment, but a pile. Ever worked a farm in southern Ontario? Ever worked in a law firm on Bay St.? Toronto is a 'Thank God it's Monday' town.

    I've never seen an article about the demise of small town Ontario. Go to Welland, or Brantford, or Paris, and the decline is far worse than the east, because there is no beauty or tourism to make up for it. In my family's homestead farm township, probably 90% of the farms are now corporate owned rather than family owned; where is the national program to preserve that lifestyle? Or does it only include fishermen and miners?

    And of course, everyone has to descend into stereotypes - lazy easterners, redneck Albertans, immigrant Torontonians, blah blah blah. The only surprise is there is so little anti-French, Quebec is favoured to our exclusion - bashing in the commentaries; I suppose that's because the bigot blinders are on so tight nobody knows they are there.

    Truth is, we're all pretty much the same in our core values - what we like most is to gripe about each other, envy each others' good fortunes and blame someone else for everything that goes wrong while romantically adhering to some rose-coloured view of our own background. Meanwhile, wherever you go (with some small and tragic exceptions) we have a truly enviable lifestyle and standard of living, opportunities for betterment, great education and health care (despite all the moaning you hear, every single day), and both natural beauty and resources.

    We should all think more like 4th Generation Loyalist, and start appreciating all we have to offer each other.
  43. Ted Smith from Canada writes: Matthew McGarvey from Ottawa, brilliant post, you summed it up nicely. Many Ontario towns and cities are struggling big-time as well, and many folks struggle with the decision to leave their families to go to the work.

    Also, Alberta has always been a place where people come to work, then retire elsewhere (mainly BC or Arizona). What's the big deal?
  44. Stephen McPherson from Bradford, Canada writes: As a second generation 'come from away' - that's a permanently displaced Cape Bretoner - this story could easily have been dusted from an 1950's or 60's copy of the Cape Breton Post. That is to say; this is really, really old news. Economic refugees have been fleeing the shores of Cape Breton for over half a century, not unlike the great Highland Clearances of 1745.
  45. m v from Mississauga, Canada writes: Thank god for the oil sands. If it wasn't for the oil sands many of these maritimers would still be on EI watching tv and drinking beer for 40 weeks a year while the rest of the country is working to pay for them. Small towns like those in Atlantic Canada have no future in the global economy. Its sad but its a reality they need to face. There have been no jobs in Cape Breton for years and that is not likely to change in the future. What industry in their right mind would want to invest in a region of the country where people only want to work long enough each year to become eligible for EI. I lived in the maritimes and saw the culture of defeat first hand. Companies that had full time jobs could not hire enough workers because people would rather work for 10 weeks and then collect EI than work full time all year round.

    While the young that move to Alberta will probably miss their homes and families, moving is the best option for everyone. Those that move will earn good money and avoid wasting their lives sitting around on pogey. Many that move to Alberta will come back or send money back and as a result benefit the small Atlantic towns they left.
  46. John Cameron from Red Deer, Canada writes: I think it must take real courage to sell up a paid for home anywhere else and not just East of Ontario and move to a new place where housing costs are much higher.

    There are lots of families here where the kids make the first move and the parents realize they won't be seeing much of the grand kids especially since it seems to cost more to fly across this country than anywhere else.

    The parents often end up following on the kids lead, an agonizing decision I am sure.

    All I can say is WELCOME.
  47. MJ M from Ft McMurray, Canada writes: I moved my family to Fort McMurray 7 years ago from a small town in the Ottawa Valley primarily for increased career opportunities for me and my wife. It has worked out really well for us both professionally and personally. Our kids love it here and to them it's now home. This article reminds me of a conversation I had with my Dad when I was in my 20's. My Father was the second son in a Northern Irish catholic family, so from about the age of ten he knew he would have to immigrate somewhere to have a life. He moved first tom England and then to Canada. There are two things that this article remind me of, the first was me whining about losing my professional support system moving so far away to which his response was It may be scary, but not anywhere near as scary as boarding a Turkish trawler in Portsmouth with nothing waiting for you in Canada except 200 pounds at the Royal bank in Halifax...I said you win. The second was we had visitors inPeterborough where I grew up over who had just been to Ireland(my Mother also immigrated from Ireland in the 50's separately) and the guy asked him why he didn't want to go back. They had been talking about the circumstances of thier repesctive immigration experiences here around the same time. The other guy was wasping about the Ireland he remembered and that of his recent trip and my Dad's response was he had no desire to move back to subject his kids to the same traumatic experience and future life he had experienced. His take on people who moved back(this was the 70's) was they were being selfish and robbing thier kids of a decent future. That day my opinion of my Father whom I love very much went up a notch. People from poor parts of the world have been moving for a better life economically for 500 years, it has only become a tragedy in the last 50.
  48. Sean L. from Toronto, Canada writes: 'It wasn't so long ago that New Waterford was a thriving coal-mining town of more than 12,000 people. '

    So? It was not long ago that some other town, in some other place was a thriving buggy-whip manufacturing center.

    Change is inevitable. Adapt or become extinct. If more people moved to where the jobs were, instead of waiting for federal 'equalization' to keep unsustainable regions populated with false hopes of economic recovery, this country would be much better off.

    I'm sure New Waterford is picturesque, and it is sad for the denzions that it is shrinking, but they can either sit and wait, or they can move where the jobs are a build a new life.

    And the same goes to the auto workers in Ontario. Don't sit there waiting for another empty promis from Buzz and Dalton about re-opening some doomed factory for a few more years. Go get a new job in a new industry. You are responsible for you.
  49. Duh Work Farce Virtually Alive from Canada writes: If this Black Gold Rush to Alberta keeps going Nova Scotia could soon become Nova Ghosta. Gold rushes are particularly hard on the women and young ones. It's a shame. I admire the honest down-to-earth common sense and common decency of Nova Scotians.The world's money supply has always been rather out of balance. Now Canada's money supply is tilting west and going for the gold has sure made an unholy high tech mess out of Vancouver, formerly the friendliest little big city on the planet. Shame how one man's boom is always another man's gloom and doom. Happier to have a room, a 'shroom and a flower on the bloom.
  50. dwayne harvie from Canada writes: Note that at the start of the 20th century coal was the hydrocarbon of choice and New Waterford was attracting immigrants to well paid jobs from all over the world, the Alberta of its time. During the 1930's the Maritimes sent Alberta relief. Wonder what the next century will bring?

    Done the Alberta thing and love the province - the people are just dry land Maritimers
  51. Kay Ay from Canada writes: Anyone from CB or who actually knows someone from there realizes all the idiots going on about EI & beer drinking are just grasping at stereotypes.
    The atlanic provinces have the highest rate of university grads in the country and the rest of the country is benefitting from that.

    I am from Cape Breton but have not lived their since I was 18.
    I think I had a near perfect childhood surrounded by family and friends and history and wish my kids could have the same. But it's not to be.
    I have worked consistantly since finishing univesity in four different provinces. As my boss in AB once said: 'the only problem with you guys from back east is you always want to go home'.
  52. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    Glyn - once again, you find a way to turn a non-Native-related story into a veiled cheap shot at Natives.

    Well done.
  53. The Bubble from Canada writes: GlynmHor is an American Oil Worker who foments hatred between Canadians.
  54. The Bubble from Canada writes: So what's so bad about pogey and beer? It's what made Canada great, that and all the weed we grow.
    Don't forgit yer Canadian roots boys.
    Life is still a joke.
  55. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: 'We're seeing highly skilled people leaving on an education we paid for.'

    Ummm.... who paid for? The parents? It surely wasn't the taxpayers.
  56. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Gary Thomson from Surrey, BC, Canada writes: 'People from the East have been flocking to BC and Alta for employment for years. Far better that they work some in Alta. and return with their wages and invest it in their communities than they stay in Alta. and become just another self-righteous, right wing a__hole. '

    Better that they stay in Alberta to the detriment you describe, rather than being some high strung, far flung, lofty left wing ideolgue tree hugger.

    What nerve. $%#@
  57. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller--you confuse me. What is it that makes a Nova Scotian less free than an Albertan? You write of Nova Scotians being 'forced' by the Atlantic Accord to migrate. What? the federal government is herding Capers across the Canso Strait even as we speak? Prodding them to work? I doubt it. Alberta is lucky to have hard-working people who want to prosper, to get ahead, come here from all over the world to join us in building a great province. Despite the naysayers like basser basser, Vern the tw@t and others of their ilk, Alberta is a great place to raise a family. As for the crack about 'bums and creeps', I'll have you know that Ralph Klein gave that speech to the Newcomer's Club of Calgary, and he received a standing ovation. Odd? Not at all. He merely asked for the cream of immigration, and not the dregs. Why not? I know many good people from Nova Scotia and elsewhere who have put down roots in Alberta [and they vote their conscience, and not necessarily what Granddad did, either]
  58. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: GlynnMohr from Skywall: Your comments are nonsense! You either don't get it or are selling something. You still haven't come clean on where exactly 'Skywall' is. The resources in Nova Scotia are potentially quite numerous (fishing, forestry, mining, offshore oil and gas, tidal power, ports) and the local population ('these people' that Martha Stewart talks of) could develop a thriving local economy as in the pre-Confederation days. It is somewhat offensive when you consider how many subsidies have been poured into the Tar Sands -- which continues right up to today. Albertans, of course, have amnesia about their own province's subsidies. While the Feds continue to fund the oil sands, my understanding are a private Irish company and a British company are the main players in developing Tidal Power in the Bay of Fundy. Instead of tax-payers continuing to fund something that obviously needs no further help in developing (ie. Tar Sands), I always thought that the idea of a subsidy was to stimulate economic activity in an area that private companies might be hesitant to start. (ie. alternative energies like a Tidal Power projects.) PS. I am actually a 13th generation Nova Scotian having returned after living in TO, USA, the West and Quebec-- My ancestor, Senator William Miller, was the 'step-father' of Nova Scotian confederation in 1867 -- clearly a mistake in retrospect under the current terms. PSS. Bruce Martin, you have only been back in this province a few weeks -- tell us about it in two years when you come to again appreciate what NS living has to offer. PSSS. Everyone should read David Beed's post again as it is a very sensible one.
  59. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Robert Miller from halifax writes: 'If only these people could have been left to benefit their own resources, control their own ports and territorial waters, employ a fraction of the university educated students that they export to the rest of the World... the region might be as well off as it was before Confederation...'

    Cry me a gawd damn river. I had to move to Toronto for my profession. You think that easy or pleasant, given that I am an Alberta Boy?

    People do what they gotta do. It's not Alberta's fault that your province is more of Tourist Destination than an economic engine. Get over it.
  60. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'GlynnMohr:... when you consider how many subsidies have been poured into the Tar Sands -- which continues right up to today.'

    There are no government subsidies for the oilsands, Robert.

    And if the Nova Scotians could still make money building wooden sailing ships, then they would be doing so. The fact they are not and can not has nothing to do with government policy.
  61. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: 'Maybe, they haven't actually figured out that a lot of our 'creeps and bums' from the 'Culture of Defeat' can actually vote in Alberta's elections... '

    Well yes, they can vote in Alberta's elections. Thank God there is less than 10,000, otherwise Alberta might be turned into a welfare state.
  62. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sean L from Toronto:

    You are correct on one point of your post -- actually a big improvement for you.

    Change is inevitable -- Torontonians also will soon find that out (if they haven't figured it out already.)

    Loved the fact that the Red Sox shared the World Series Trophy with the City of Halifax a few weeks ago before it had even made its trip to the White House. Don't recall the Blue Jays ever sharing though...
  63. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Robert Miller: I have got to say, after reading your posts... I find you to be just a bitter sod....and an exemplary model of that 'Culture of Defeat'. Is it any wonder the young people move and don't come back? Come back to what? A bitter older N.S. generation that despises success?
  64. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Robert Miller: 'Loved the fact that the Red Sox shared the World Series Trophy with the City of Halifax a few weeks ago before it had even made its trip to the White House. Don't recall the Blue Jays ever sharing though... '

    What a wet noodle. Piece of advice Bobby: Pull your lip over your head and swallow.
  65. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: That's why we have a COUNTRY called CANADA, so we can go where the work & possibly pay is! Local roots are fine, but we're in this together, so let's co-operate and make each other feel welcome!
  66. Northern Pike from Kitchener, Canada writes: Hmmm, conjure stories up about people not working on the east coast and then complain about supposedly supporting them? The only common issue here would be jealousy. Some Albertans much like Ontario and Quebec are quick to stab in the back. A time when Albertans were starving did NL send fish, a time when SARS hit TO did Atlantic Canada send potatoes, fish, etc.., to help. The difference is Upper and western Canada love to gain success of the backs of others, to claim fame when goings get good, and trash everyone else at the same time. To conjure up stories and attack others, places that helped them, when these areas are succeeding in the face of suppression, greed, and jealousy. Petty when the times are tough and damn well ignorant and arrogant when the times are good. NL should have an extremely diversified resource base but instead resources are being shipped out, feds are taking their ton of cash out of the pot from those succeeding, and others are being held back by Canada. There's no other word but exploitation. Wonder how well Alberta would be doing if A) they had a Quebec between them and the US and B) how much of an economy would they have if hard-working east coasters weren't there. My brother works near the oil sands, there are hardly any Albertans there. Why? Cause they can't compete when it comes to hardwork. The ones bitter in Ontario and Alberta are bitter cause in order to get decent pay and/or a job they have to do something. Put these people back east and they wouldn't last a winter.
  67. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Winston Churchill from London:

    You will, of course, remember your book on the History of the Americas where you mentioned the strategic importance of the City of Halifax several times, and neglected to mention burghs like Toronto and Calgary...

    Yes, of course, Senator Williams Miller's decision to support Canadian Confederation may have been the biggest mistake that a Nova Scotian ever made...

    Deal with it, Neiland Robert...
  68. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Northern Pike writes: 'The difference is Upper and western Canada love to gain success of the backs of others, to claim fame when goings get good, and trash everyone else at the same time. To conjure up stories and attack others, places that helped them, when these areas are succeeding in the face of suppression, greed, and jealousy. Petty when the times are tough and damn well ignorant and arrogant when the times are good. '

    You can't be serious. It would seem to me Alberta is doing nothing but welcoming workers with open arms.... how does this translate to your characterization? It would seem that on one account you are right: This is about Jealousy.

    In case, Mr. Ontario, you haven't figured it out... Alberta has always been a place where people are left to their own devices... to succeed or not succeed... free of interference. If there is any foreboding sense of arrogance you pick up on from posters... it is this:

    'Alberta is sick of being led by the nose by Ontario and Quebec Liberals. We are doing well, and the Minority Government is ours. If all you bring is negativity and a defeatest attittude to the table, just go on back to where you came from.'
  69. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: 'Yes, of course, Senator Williams Miller's decision to support Canadian Confederation may have been the biggest mistake that a Nova Scotian ever made... Deal with it, Neiland Robert... '

    Great attitude. Can we cut you off of social assistance now?
  70. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I know the well meaning Canadian spirit in which this comment...

    'We're in this together...'

    ROFLMAO!!!

    'Culture of defeat', 'Creeps and bums', 'these people', 'welfare state...' Do I need to go on here?
  71. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'I know the well meaning Canadian spirit in which this comment...'

    You have a serious chip on your shoulder old man. You have said you think it is a mistake that Nova Scotia ever became Canadian... So what is the point of going on about it? Maybe you can strike up a conversation with the immigration department of the country of your liking?
  72. Sean L. from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: You are correct on one point of your post -- actually a big improvement for you.'

    I suppose that your definition of an improvement is aligning my point of view with your inflexible & emotional views.

    I have long lost hope of ever seeing a logical position argued by you, so I am dissappointed that you agree with any of my points.
  73. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: GlynnMohr of Skywall:

    Still not telling us where Skywall is, eh?

    Of course, there have been billions in subsidies to the oil patch:

    http://justtransition.wordpress.com/2006/12/12/subsidies-in-the-oil-patch/

    However, you also have shown a remarkable past tendency to deny both climate change and credible scientific reviews from the National Academy of Science of the United States on the effects that the Tar Sands have had on water depletion in the West...

    You clearly have a vested interest in promoting Tar Sands development... which brings me back to my first post up there...
  74. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'It's become unfortunate some Albertans lecture others on politics and 'values and all that gear as if they came to believe they suddenly instinctively knew something the rest of us didn't once the oil and riches began to flow.' Vern I think in many instances Canadians in different regions (Provinces) misunderstand what others are saying. You clearly feel that some Albertans are 'lecturing' others on politics and values. Disregarding trolls on G&M post boards I don't see that. The only thing most Albertans say is the same thing you do...don't lecture me. In fact many Albertans would say people in Central Canada like to 'lecture others on politics and values and all that gear as if they came to believe they suddenly instinctively knew something the rest of us didn't' because they live in Central Canada. The Alberta psychy is pretty easy to understand. Trudeau came in and messed things up with the NEP, and now most Albertans simply want Ottawa to stay out of our business. Maybe that comes across as preaching or lecturing to those in Ontario or Quebec, but that isn't the intention. Albertans aren't saying 'do and think as we do'; it's more like 'do whatever you want...just don't tell us what to do'.
  75. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Northern Pike from Kitchener, Canada writes: My brother works near the oil sands, there are hardly any Albertans there. Why? Cause they can't compete when it comes to hardwork.

    Wow...you are a complete dullard. No Albertans in Ft. Mac? OK and there is no water in the ocean.
  76. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Northern Pike from Kitchener, Canada:

    Excellent Post -- However, what chance does a country that doesn't know its history have in the long run?

    All that I can understand from 'these people' is that their vision for Atlantic Canada is to be the servants of the new Sheiks in the Oil Patch...

    That's quite a vision for a new Atlantic Canada ghetto that you have there, Sir John A. Harper!

    Thanks but I actually like Danny's 'maitres chez nous' idea much better.
  77. Michael Wideski from Pago Pago, American Samoa writes: Northern Pike is not ENTIRELY off base when he says there are few Albertans up here. But it isn't a fear of hard work. The Easterners will take any job that comes along, for the most part, while the local guys, spoiled by the Boom, hold out for the 'Peach' jobs, those where a Tradesman can clear $2,000.oo a week. Most of us, myself included, are in the $1,500/week bracket.
    Think about it; if you're faced with an outrageous mortgage and horrendous car payments, you HAVE to go for the jobs that work the most hours.
    BTW, it's minus 39 outside right now.
  78. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller: re: your 4;07 post--you ARE going on here [and on, and on, and on]
  79. R Lam from Calgary, Canada writes: I don't see what the problem here is. This is a wonderful tale of free movement of people and capital. Alberta needs people to work, Cape Breton has people willing to work. PERFECT! I think this is a Canadian sucess story as opposed to a sad one. If Cape Breton wants people to stay and work there then they have to find ways to employ people and keep them happy there. I don't appreciate the implication that many posters are trying to make here that this is somehow Alberta's problem and that somehow this is a good arguement to slow-down or stop development of the Oil sands.
  80. Ken Hanley from Canada writes: Thank you, 4th Generation Loyalist: 'I am a Canadian and I love all of her. Why can't everyone else???' Couldn't agree more.

    I was born in Edmonton, raised in Calgary, and I'm old enough to remember tougher times here, to appreciate the good times we're having now (they won't last forever), and glad to share with fellow Canadians.

    Toronto? Halifax? Montreal? Vancouver? Love 'em all.

    If you find opportunity here in the West, welcome. I hope that if people from Alberta need to move elsewhere in the future for work and opportunity, they'll be welcomed there too.
  81. Doug - from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I will always wonder whether forcing increased migration from Atlantic Canada to Alberta was the true motivation behind the CPC flip flop/betrayal on the Atlantic Accord? One of the dumber post ever. paranoid much. When you lived in other parts of Canada did you have any friends. After spending time in the Maritimes, 12 years, it wasn't that often I that would meet such an opinionated tool. I have to admit sometimes Albertans get on a high horse. But you sir do nothing but make them look good. As for the Maritimes being in great shape before confederation. Sorry no the decline had already started. The big trees were gone and wooden ship building was on decline. It was only a matter of time. = On the whole Lazy Maritimer thing. There are certain areas where welfare has created an underclass that has decided that working plus EI is better than working. In know Maritimers that left due to that. But it really is just in areas were the only work was seasonal. What bugged me about the Maritimes was the political corruption but I think that is alot better since I was a kid. Some Maritimers and newfies want to go back, not all. I would say that western Canadians get along with eastern Canadians better than people from Ont. Not a big thing but my wife from B.C. liked the poeple of Saint John way more than Hamilton.
  82. J T from Victoria, Canada writes: Ooo, Robert Miller, still hating Albertans because of the 'creeps and bums' thing? You’ve had your shorts in a knot over Liberal/CBC 'hate Alberta' propaganda for almost 30 years. Way to hold a grudge over a lie. I actually bothered to read the transcript of the speech (did you, or do you mindlessly swallow what the CBC feeds you?) and the comments and answers in the question period after. The CBC reporter didn’t want to ruin a good anti-Alberta story with facts. I worked with colleagues and went to university with others who were well educated intelligent friends who were recent arrivals from all over Canada, from Ontario, Quebec, NL, NS, NB, so I was concerned about Ralph's alleged comment. Here's what he actually said, and he got a standing ovation from the Calgary Newcomer's Club. He said all the people arriving in Calgary were welcome, we needed them and we hoped they would be successful. During the question period after his speech he was asked by a reporter about the police chief's recent comment that the Calgary Remand Centre was 85% filled with people awaiting trial on serious criminal charges who originated from eastern Canada. Ralph said these were the kinds of 'creeps and bums' we didn’t want, and he wished they would stay home. Pretty clear, right? Keep your criminals. Apparently if Alberta welcomes good people, they should hug your thugs as well. I was pretty close with a wonderful person who was a CBC staffer at the time, originally from NB. I asked her what was going on with the huge smearing lie the CBC told the rest of Canada. Simple, she said. The mandate of CBC Calgary is to make Alberta look bad in the ROC. Telling outright lies to enrage the ROC is part of the process. We now spend a billion a year on the CBC, and they still drive us apart. Deliberately. I am at least thankful that this oil sands series is being done by the Toronto Globe, certainly still not friendly or objective about Alberta, but at least it isn’t a CBC series.
  83. The Bubble from Canada writes: Alberta may be tired of Ontario leading it around by the nose but they must still like being led around by the nose, it's just the Americans doing it now.
    Your provincial government will sell out to whoever they like.
  84. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: I am actually quite shocked at some of the comments here.

    I knew that the current Canadian government/mainstream media were good at hiding secrets, but it is quite rich that some foolish Canadians outside of Atlantic Canada mistakenly believe that we're living off their money here.

    OK, here's a few clues for some of you to rub together... since it is obvious you haven't any...

    (1) Do you know what Canada's employment insurance surplus is at currently?

    51 BILLION DOLLARS AND GROWING --

    (2) Do you know who gets the vast majority of corporate welfare in this country?

    ONTARIO AND QUEBEC

    Top 100 Grants and Contributions Approved by the Federal Government -- 2006/07 Fiscal Year

    http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Top100.pdf

    Not one single payment to NL, NS, or PEI on that list.

    Yes, someone is stealing your money, but it sure as heck ain't us, Atlantic Canadian 'creeps and bums...'
  85. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Ok, Doug - from Canada:

    What motivated Mr. Harper to try to break the terms of a duly signed contract between the Federal Government and two provincial members of the Federation ? An accord that he did nothing but praise as a member of the Opposition?

    Still waiting for your answer?
  86. Doug - from Canada writes: Still waiting for your answer?

    =
    That is very easy. The accords were election campaign give aways by Martin to buy votes. Its easy to give away the store when you think you will lose and therefore have nothing to lose. I don't anyone but a hard core Ont basher of transfer payments would have said the scheme had to be changed to get Newfoundland on its feet. But the new accord was not popular in Ont. they would end up sending money to NFLD when it wasn't doing so hot and NFLD was.
  87. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller--you should answer J T's post, if not my earlier ones. Or get of the string.
  88. Doug - from Canada writes: 'An accord that he did nothing but praise as a member of the Opposition?'

    =
    I don't remember that but I'll take that as true. Ok , politicans during an election are scum and will do things to get elected that they know are wrong. But they are put in a spot. when one party promises bread and circuses what is the other part supposed to do? Say work harder? No way. Really on a basic level the accords are unfair to the other Prov. What if Alberta was able to exclude resource income for the equalization calculations? Would Alberta not get money? Every Prov except Ont and Que wants to exclude resource income.
  89. Doug - from Canada writes: While I'm waiting...... People also forget that lots of Albertians have been going abroad to the middle east to work in the oil patch there for years. I went and worked in Oman for 6 months, but I only got to come back after 3 months. Lots of people I know have worked in the middle east or other places. Mostly Engineering but some construction.
  90. J T from Victoria, Canada writes: Bubble, who owns Ontario's economy? Like the auto sector? Americans. And Japanese. The mining sector? Europeans, Americans and Brazilians. And the steel industry? And manufactring? Do they lead you around by the nose? Like the $265 million from the Ontario government to build Camaros? And yesterday I thought you claimed you never posted insults against Albertans? All that printers ink affecting your memory?
  91. Matthew Thiesen from Vancouver, Canada writes: ralph klein from wild rose country, Canada writes: An eastern hymn

    Alberta is the promised land, or so we have been told-
    Though they rape the land for texas tea , they pave their streets with gold.

    Their politicians shriek , they shout, ' heed us , draw near , turn right'-
    and we outside , we stoop , we strain-- resist with all our might.

    In truth it is a mere red state , a backward land the've found-
    but as i type my bags are packed for Calgary i am bound.
    -----------
    A reality that has struck the nation.
    Perhaps people leave to find out that money isn't everything. Perhaps they will learn to get on their feet and make things grow.
    Oil isn't the answer, but at least it is giving a large number of canadians the internalised drive that we need.
    now if we can only turn that to a ecological-sound cause.
  92. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'GlynnMohr: Of course, there have been billions in subsidies to the oil patch'

    All your link shows is capital cost allowance, a deduction for capital expenditures for which any capital investment is eligible.
  93. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'GlynnMohr:... you also have shown a remarkable past tendency to deny both climate change...'

    Not at all, Robert, I've merely pointed out the flaws in the currently Correct Party Line that holds humans to have been the dominant drivers of change.

    In fact, I at irregular intervals link to the actual global temperature history showing just how climate has changed since the 1800s.
  94. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Doug - from Canada:

    Geez, where is Ralph Klein when you need him...

    Oh, Ralphie -- you don't remember Steve and yourself ever quite vocally supporting the idea that Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador should see a greater share of the benefits from their offshore resources???

    Ralph Klein?? --- Peter Lougheed??

    The Albertans are the elephants in the room with respect to GHGs, but they certainly don't seem to have the elephant's memory

    Ok, Doug, I'll be back with direct quotes of Harper's former embarassing praise for the Atlantic Accord...
  95. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Come on guys. Nova Scotia's pre-confederation prosperity was built on iron and coal mining, bulk products carried in wooden ships. With pure, unalterated free trade you'd be dynamos like Maine, Rhode Island, and Vermont. People moved West because that's where the action was.
    For what its worth, I believe that iron was already dying at confederation -- as I recall, because NS ore is too hard to get, purer than necessary, and a jizillions miles away from a smelter or a market. Besides: there's way more of it in Ontario (closer to Cleveland and Pittsburg), just as there's also coal in B.C. and Alberta. Similarly, industry located in Ontario because it made financial sense to put it there. Huhm, wonder why Henry Ford chose to built an auto plant (1904 I believe) in Windsor Ontario rather than Come-by-Chance or Fort Lauderdale? Must have been the tarriffs right?

    The world moved on and NS found itself in the same boat as England's black country, Germany's Ruhr and America's rustbelt. The rest is sour grapes.
  96. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Doug - from Canada:

    You also seem to have forgotten that the Atlantic Accord was originally a creation of a Federal Conservative government that was shelved by the Liberals in Ottawa for 12 years before PM Martin signed it?
  97. R M from FORT MCMURRAY, Canada writes: When the coal mine I had worked at for over 20 years went broke, I moved my family to Fort McMurray. I moved here because this is where the jobs are. My old job was gone and it was not coming back. The opportunities for myself and my family have been wonderful.

    Fort McMurray is not for everyone but if you have the right skills it can be a great place to live.

    If you choose to leave your family behind and commute, you and your family will pay a price for that but it is your choice.

    Don't blame Alberta for having the jobs now and if your lifestyle is gone and it is not coming back you have to make some hard decisions.

    No matter what you do, you have to live with the results.
  98. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Winston Churchill from London, Canada: Actually, according to RBC projections, our economy in Nova Scotia is set for top three growth amongst all Canadian Provinces with an expectation of 3% growth for the next two years... Our Port of Halifax is the closest, ice free Canadian port to many major European, America, and South American Ports... The Port of Montreal and a little Canadian monopoly called CN have had some effect on our growth, however. With respect to our recent free trade deal with Peru, the Port of Halifax is actually over 1000 miles closer to Lima, Peru than the Port of Vancouver is. We were ranked #2 in best places to live by MoneySense Magazine, and have one of the most educated citizenries in this country... Atlantic Canada also has significant oil, gas, hydroelectric power, tidal power, wind power, nuclear power, minerals, forestry, and fisheries. We also personally won't have to pay for that big old real estate bubble that the rest of North America may have... I can actually envision that within my lifetime that I may be gleefully saying something like: 'The world moved on and Ontario found itself in the same boat as England's black country, Germany's Ruhr and America's rustbelt. The rest is sour grapes.'
  99. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes:' I may be gleefully saying something like: 'The world moved on and Ontario found itself in the same boat as England's black country, Germany's Ruhr and America's rustbelt.''

    You'd be saying this 'gleefully'???

    Nice guy you're certainly not.

    I would rejoice to find that our less productive have-not provinces becoming more prosperous.
  100. kirk shaw from Calgary, Canada writes: On the eve of stepping on a plane to fly home for the first time in over 3 years I can only shake my head in disbelief over the amount of bile being slung about. While some of my fellow maritimers cannot get enough of the 10 weeks on 40 off, I like many others packed our bags and left. Alan J (for Jesus) and many others have made political hay by offering dreams which can never become reality and reading about call centers brings it all full circle (Texas Instruments in the 70's). The sad truth of the matter is great place to be from and if you can make it work and stay there more power to you; if not prepare to head to where the work is. Despite the rampant devisions being slung about we do live in one hell of a country and I have been most fortunate to work in Toronto, Vancouver ,Whistler and now Calgary(although the minus 30 degree weather has me wondering) and the common denominator is that most of us love our country with all of our hearts no matter what chuckle head is in power making promises they will never keep. What does make me crazy about the small gems like New Waterford is when I left in the mid eighties they were crumbling cess pools like most if not all of Industrial Cape Breton,please focus on the future not on reclaiming a history of pollution, which the Tar Ponds are a striking reminder of. While tourism is at best seasonal, aquaculture can prove to be a bit more sustainable as well I can hardly wait to procure some lovely Cape Breton lamb. The greatest resource is the people and hopefully the ones who decide to stick it out will not be hampered by the politicians who can never see further than their next term.
  101. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Go Oiler Go from Canada writes:

    'The Alberta Psyche is pretty easy to understand. Trudeau came in and messed things up with the NEP, and now most Albertans simply want Ottawa to stay out of our business...'

    Yes, Trudeau's unfair action in Alberta 25 years ago just about sums it up...

    In the meantime,

    Ottawa has run up a $51 BILLION surplus on employment insurance that apparently most Canadians still mistakenly atrribute to Atlantic Canadians...

    The Federal Government has ripped up a number of the established railroad tracks in Atlantic Canada...

    The Federal Government tried to flip flop on a duly signed agreement, the Atlantic Accord, that was fifteen years in the making and two in the breaking...

    The Federal Government subsidizes the operations of the Port of Montreal with ice breakers in the St. Lawrence when they have a year round ice free, Post-Panamax port right here in Halifax operating at 50% capacity...

    The Billions in Corporate Welfare to Quebec and Ontario and the Alberta Oil Patch somehow don't get counted as equalization by the Federal Government or the rest of Canadians...

    Sorry, if I sound less than sympathetic on that NEP thing...
  102. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: GlynnMohr:

    Until you are prepared to tell us all where in the world that 'Skywall' is, I would suggest that you remain out of our Canadian family's fight...
  103. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Robert Miller: please believe that I wish NS well, and always have. I take no glee in your past misfortunes, and hope that all is well in the future. I've invariably liked all the Bluenosers I've met. I hope they like me too. I don't mind the transfer payments, even; just wish that they left us enough so that our services were as good as yours.

    For what its worth, Ontario will not be black country anytime soon. London, Windsor, and Kitchener-Waterloo are generally reckoned among the best places in NA to invest money. The big three are in trouble, but the auto industry thrives. Ever wonder where they make Acuras, Hondas, Toyota and Camis sold on this continent? If you guessed Japan you'd be wrong.

    Have a nice day, and good luck.
  104. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Just seen the recent post Robert Miller. I think I might make an exception for you: a bluenoser I don't like. Then again, I dislike most crackheads.

    Fed gov't didn't rip up any tracks. They don't own them. Want to know about ripped up tracks? Ask any town in Canada. Ask Edmonton, for Christsakes. If memory serves, the line Calgary-Edmonton died about ten years ago. CN and CP are shutting up shop, pretty much. Via rail died earlier.

    Corporate welfare? Have you been reading the paper recently? Fed Gov't won't pay a dime to support anything located in Ontario. As memory serves, however, they've been pretty forthcoming setting up one run shops in NS.

    Live in the real world with the rest of us.
  105. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Winston Churchill from London, Ontario: Thanks for your well wishes -- As previously mentioned, I lived in Ontario and have always found Ontarians to be very friendly and generous. I do not hope any ill will on your province. I apologize for overemphasizing my point, but it seems lately that Atlantic Canadians (those living in Nova Scotia) have had to do that in order to get their points across... If it makes you feel any better, I wrote much more insulting stuff to Peter MacKay... All the best to you as well. Doug from Canada -- As requested, this is from Stephen Harper's speech in the House of Commons on November 4, 2004: Why should Newfoundland's possibility of achieving levels of prosperity comparable to the rest of Canada be limited to an artificial eight year period? Why is the government so eager to ensure that Newfoundland and Labrador always remain below the economic level in Ontario? The Ontario clause is unfair and insulting to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and its message to that province, to Nova Scotia and to all of Atlantic Canada is absolutely clear. They can only get what they were promised if they agree to remain have not provinces forever... There were several other Harper quotes to choose from -- as well as similar support for this concept from former Albertan premiers, Ralph Klein and Peter Lougheed.
  106. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Winston Churchill from London, Canada:

    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is from the real world, Winston.

    The top 100 Grants and Contributions Approved by the Federal Government --- 2006/2007 Fiscal Year

    http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Top100.pdf

    Whether you like me or not is not really that relevant to the facts that I have presented...
  107. 4th Generation Loyalist from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks for the positive response to my earlier post of why Can't all Canadian's just love our country and the natural and man made opportunities she provides to us. But Instead it's still an us vs. them sort of thing or they did this to us 100 years ago issue so now we don't like you...blah blah blah People get over it!!! It's sad but I hate to admit the only thing that will polarize this amazing country of ours is a revolution to take back this country from the hands of those who steer her off course (riiiiight!) or A threat from beyond for the very resources we discuss today in this forum. Canadians of all stripes are hardworking and just want to provide for their families and themselves. Whether you come from the Rock and hate the Albertan way of life or vista's or you come from Alberta and hate 'Upper Canada' just because you do, It doesn't matter. We all pay Federal taxes and we all (I HOPE!) want great things for this nation of ours. Wake up and stop whining. We have it so good we don't even know it. We get down on ourseleves cause America doesn't know we provide all their oil. WHO CARES! I don't. You couldn't pay me 10 pipe fitter salaries to move there. Nice people but Holy lord they are in a mess of trouble with the rest of the planet. It's not a U.S. thing either. JUST LOVE YOUR COUNTRY PEOPLE AND BE HAPPY WE HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT NEEDS SUPPORT! If you don't like Alberta, Fine, Not everyone likes the Rock. Big deal. Live with it and move on. Make your money and take it home and invest in your local communities. I am sick and tired of the constant Bickering. THANK GOD this article wasn't about Quebec! We'd be here for months. Just love your country and the opportunities she GIVES you. If you don't like it, Leave. If you don't want to leave, Shut up and be happy you have a job and home to go back to that isn't overun with immigrants who don't speak english let alone even look remotely Canadian. The True North Strong And Free Indeed!
  108. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: From New York Times of October 5, 1989 -- Trains to be cut in Canada

    'The Government-owned Via Rail Canada Inc. would end up offering little more than skeleton service in wide areas of the Maritime Provinces...'

    The hollowing out of Atlantic Canada did not actually start with Tar Sands development... it has been far, far more systemic than just that.

    Newfoundland and Labrador's Danny Williams seems to be the only trust-worthy politician who seems to have some answers to these problems on this coast...
  109. Kevin Go Riders from Canada writes: I think the real issue is that ' many small towns on the island ..... aren't economically self-sufficient' so why do we feel the need to support them. There are thousand of town in Saskatchewan and most every other province that are no longer on the map if there not economically self sufficient then they need to go and people need to move on because the days of the 1/4 section farm and the horse and buggy are done.
  110. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Robert, lets call it quits OK? I'll host a pint with you when I meet you in person. I live in a city of 35,000 22k away from a city of 350,000 and there isn't even a bus (railway shut up shot between them decades ago. VIA is a dream. CN has gone in the last two years).
  111. Alastair james Berry from NANAIMO BC, Canada writes:
    The GLORY DAYS OF COAL MINING WILL return to Cape Breton!

    World demand for coal is fast outpacing supply and the wealth that underlies Cape Breton will soon attract attention again!

    Billions of Can $1's lying there just waiting to be exploited !

    Now mining can be done hydraulically with a minimum of men down the mine,the entrance and adit the only roads that need strengthening........The coal is blasted out with water collected in a sump where it is pumped with a 'slurry pump' to the surface cleaned and 'siloed' awaiting loading on to colliers for delivery to Europe or the far East.

    CAPE BRETON'S BEST DAYS LIE AHEAD!!
  112. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Chris Eaton from Fredericton, NB, writes: 'What the article and commenters all leave out of this is that Maritime cities are not suffering from this in the same way. In fact places like Moncton and Fredericton are doing well. They're not growing at Alberta speeds, but they are growing with decent economies. The rural way of life is dying off here in New Brunswick, but its not entirely to do with Alberta. Its simply people following the jobs, and the jobs aren't in rural areas.'

    Yes, very true. Ontario's rural area hollowed out some years ago. Sooner or later, everything rural will hollow out. It is important to mention that it is not like these emigrants can get better money in Alberta, its that they can get better money ANYWHERE.

    If they weren't going to Alberta, they would just be going to Vancouver or Toronto, or the USA (most likely this one).
  113. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller--give your head a shake, get a life, and go out and build your Atlantic dream. 'just the facts', indeed, feh!
  114. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'GlynnMhor: ... where in the world [is] 'Skywall''

    It's in cyberspace.
  115. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes:'The Billions in Corporate Welfare to Quebec and Ontario and the Alberta Oil Patch...'

    While billions certainly go to Quebec and to some extent Ontario, the 'oil patch' doesn't get much more than a plugged nickle from time to time.
  116. Armchair Politician from Kelowna, Canada writes: Would they rather the Canadian taxpayer brings a job to their doorstep? Without the Oil in Alberta and the Autos in Ontario, where is the money coming from?
  117. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Winston Churchill from Canada: I'll take you up on that pint if you are ever out in Halifax as you and I are actually related (assuming that you are the real Winston Churchill.) Here's my real point -- It's not that Atlantic Canadians are lazy as so many here would like to believe. In the current situation, the Atlantic Canada economy is being bypassed in many different ways... The Federally subsidized Port of Montreal allows ships to bypass the Port of Halifax so we have lost many of the shipping trade patterns that we had before Confederation. In many ways, Quebec is the eastern end of Canada. Hydroelectricity in Churchill Falls, Offshore Oil and Gas, forest products and mineral resources are extracted here, but largely go elsewhere for further processing (often the better paying jobs)... Until recently, the Federal government took the lion's share of any royalties from the offshore resources of Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia... Canadians should be protesting in the streets that the insurance employment surplus has reached $51 BILLION -- Yet, they seem largely unaware and seem to instead inexplicably blame Atlantic Canadians... That's why I have said that David Beed's post is one of the more intelligent posts on this thread... However, I also agree with Alistair James Berry from Nanaimo that Atlantic Canada's best days lie ahead if we collectively figure out the ways in which this system went wrong in the first place... It's too convenient for some to say the people over there are lazy or expect the Canadian taxpayer to bring jobs to their door... The people here are not lazy.
  118. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: GlynnMohr in Cyberspace (not Canada:)

    I only know what I read, Glynn... This is from the Province of Alberta...

    'Between 1996 and 2002, the Federal Government spent approximately $8 Billion on tax subsidies for Canada's oil and gas industries...'

    http://www.gpcalberta.ca/index2.php?option=comcontent&dopdf=1&id=15

    If you wish to counter with your own evidence that the oil patch doesn't get much more than a 'plugged nickel,' that's fine...

    However, show your work, please!
  119. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: "GlynnMhor: ... Federal Government spent approximately $8 Billion on tax subsidies..."

    Look for yourself; all you'll find is capital cost depreciation, which isn't a subsidy.
  120. J T from Victoria, Canada writes: So sorry to deflate your indignation Robert. All the oil and gas taxation courses and practice I have done say GlynnMhor is correct. It's capital cost depreciation. But of course Taliban Jack calls it a subsidy when Alberta companies use it legally. Anywhere else it would be an "entitlement" to Jack and his marxists.
  121. Doug - from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Doug - from Canada:

    You also seem to have forgotten that the Atlantic Accord was originally a creation of a Federal Conservative government that was shelved by the Liberals in Ottawa for 12 years before PM Martin signed it? =
    ===================================================
    Yes and your point? I can't remember the timing but sounds like another end of term thing. Your making my own point. it took 12 years to sign!! There was something wrong with it in the Liberals eyes then wasn't there. So your whole point about the Cons evil plan is kind of silly now isn't it. The timing was terrible. Ont. was starting not to do so well so was complaining about equalization. Sask wanted the same deal too as was soon to be not a have not. I don't think the bad actors are from Alberta on this issue it was Ont and Sask that causing the problem.
  122. John Birmingham from Calgoronto, Canada writes: Go Oiler Go, I've noticed You can't figure out who owns the oil gas in Alberta. It belongs to the Province of Alberta, which by extension is the residents of Alberta. It does NOT belong just and only to those that work in the industry that brings it to market. as you state below. Again you are competely wrong on this assumption. That is why there are Royalties.

    Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes:
    John that's what so many people like you can't figure out; the oil and resources aren't 'ours' as in only for Albertans.
    It is 'ours' in terms of who is actually putting in the work to bring the commodity to market.
  123. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: John Birmingham from Calgaronto, Canada:

    The resource belongs to the residents of Alberta... exactly!

    Tell me with leaders like Stelmach and Klein who are content to give it away with the lowest royalties in the world, does it actually feel that way in Alberta?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Doug -- my point is that the Atlantic Accord (once it was signed by the Federal Government) gave the provinces of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador a chance to develop a future for their own economies and lessen their dependence on other provinces in Canada which we do not plan to relinquish in Atlantic Canada...

    Harper showed very poor judgement in trying to play Atlantic Canada for fools and try to reneg on this written Federal agreement with these two Provinces... I don't recall anyone asking him to do this, but if there was hidden reasons for the Atlantic Accord betrayal, I would dearly love to know what they were...
  124. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: The other post up there that made some sense was the guy that said that economic migrants from Atlantic Canada used to go to the Boston States... then Toronto... and now to Alberta.

    Great! Since Confederation, Atlantic Canadians have had to migrate further away from their own provinces in order to make a living when the means to create viable economies in Atlantic Canada have been here all along.

    Wonder why there might be any bitterness to my comments?

    Economic migrants? -- What is this Africa?
  125. J S from Alberta, Canada writes: As a Nova Scotian in Alberta working in the financial industry ... I've seen the indirect benefits of the oil sands. It is unfortunate that small towns in Atlantic Canada are having trouble hanging onto workers, but how can you ask a person to work for $10 an hour when they can make 3 or 4 times as much here. They bring a good chunk of that home to spend as well. Should they just stay home and live off of welfare? As a formally educated person in Atlantic Canada, I was never good enough because everyone and there dog has a degree. In Alberta, my education is appreciated. Businesses in Atlantic Canada have taken the educated work force for granted. Individuals make decisions to move in their best interests. We should be thankful for that even if there are negative effects in their home communities. The negative effects would be much larger if they did not try to support themselves and their families.
  126. stevejohn david from virgina, United States writes: Atlantic Canadians have had to migrate further away from their own provinces in order to make a living when the means to create viable economies in Atlantic Canada have been here all along.Perhaps they will learn to get on their feet and make things grow.
    ==============
    steve
    Link Building
  127. john petersen from Austin, United States writes: It's nice and very interesting keep on going good luck..
    -------------------
    johnpetersen
    kentucky drug rehab

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