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Tory won't stay if party doesn't want him

TAVIA GRANT

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 12:38 PM EST 11/10/07

PC Leader says he would like to stay on but will not linger if party wants to oust him ...Read the full article

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  1. News Freak from Toronto, Canada writes: I shuddered when the PCs elected John Tory leader. I felt the party had made a big mistake. Mr. Tory is more of an executive than a politician. His emphasis is on what he thinks and not on what the public thinks. His failure in this election proved the point. The PCs need to be led by a politician who has the necessary political instincts to represent the more conservative portion of the population in the Province while at the same time understanding what will work with the political centre. John Tory is not the man for this job. The PCs need a new leader.
  2. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: I think Dion might just be looking for someone to run the federal election he is threatening now that Carroll has been turfed. Tory would seem to be a 'shoe in' for the job...seeing as he ran Kim Campbell's campaign. The Conservatives would be crazy to allow Tory to stay on as leader...thanks for coming out John...and goodbye.
  3. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is Incompetent., Canada writes: So who's the next leader going to be?
  4. Terry Johnson from Burlington, Canada writes: Before the election writ, I stated I was prepared to vote for the Conservatives because of John Tory and, I believed, a move to the center of the political spectrum. My comments were based on his developing platform from the time he was elected leader. Unfortunately, the faith based school initiative which was sprung a few months before the election was a non-starter for me because I believed it would have a more divisive than cohesive effect (with significant long term implications) and the costs would be much higher than stated. I could not vote Conservative. Nonetheless, I believe John Tory will learn from this election and, should the Liberals not provide good competent government over the next four years (there can be no excuses this time), he may still be the best person to lead the Conservatives. On the other hand, another Conservative could come along who could do a better job, but at this time I still think John Tory is the best person for the job.
  5. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Bye.
    Thanks.
    Take your 'team' with you.
  6. Vern McPherson from writes: Who wants him now ? I mean in politics ?
  7. Election time! from Toronto, Canada writes: Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out Tory....

    (Disgruntled Conservative)
  8. Brian Martin from Georgetown, Canada writes: IF, the party doesn't want him? What part of last night didn't you understand? Thanks for dropping by. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Next!
  9. Toby Maloney from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Blaming John Tory for losing is like blaming Kim Campbell for decimating the federal P.C.'s. If you remember, we rose as a nation and coast to coast voted against Mulroney, whether that was Reform, BQ, NDP or Liberal. And we've been voting against people ever since.

    Yeah John Tory was remarkably stupid with his post-it note policy on funding religious schools, and I suppose responsible for doing marginally worse than lhis party did ast election.

    But his real problem, especially with a reminder government sitting in Ottawa, is that he wasn't able live down the Harris Conservatives' assault on competent government. Religious school funding was only the third strike; the other two were against him before he stepped up to the plate.

    To reverse their fortunes the Ontario P.C.'s need to continue to distance themselves from the Bull in the China Shop Neo-Cons with their divisive rhetoric and policies and put the Progressive back in P.C. ala Bill Davis.
  10. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is Incompetent., Canada writes: Tobey - you're forgetting the Kim Campbell ran a terrible campaign, which didn't help. She was destined to lose - but not by THAT much.
    One common denominator is John Tory - he was the mastermind behind the Chretien ad's, and it look's like the lessons of that campaign were lost on him. But the leaders have to take responsibility when they lose. Blaming others just makes them look silly.
  11. M Lafrance from Ottawa, Canada writes: This election was John Tory's to lose... and he did. He made a huge miscalculation when he introduced the school-funding issue into this election. What he needed to do was not only focus attention on the broken promises of McGuinty and what he has (or rather hasn't) done over the last four years but also on what he would do differently, give people a reason to vote for him other than the fact that he's not McGuinty. Health care, taxes, the environment... these should have been the focus of his policies. Something like educational reform should be saved for when running for a second term. I was not against the proposed funding plan, but he did a terrible job of selling it and an even worse job of defending it once the Liberals began their attack. After yesterday's spectatular failure he owes it to his party to step aside. It is the only way the PC's can recover and rebuild. He had his chance and blew it, now it's time for someone else to give it a try.
  12. dwight steadman from Fort Macleod from Canada writes: Nice guy, but it appears he's not very adept at winning elections. If he can't get anybody to vote for him, maybe he should step down.
  13. I pass wind in your general direction from Canada writes: The guy pulled the biggest political bonehead move possible. Get rid of him yesterday.
  14. d mills from toronto, Canada writes: look back at Tory's career... at the CFL, Rogers and you will see that 'everything he touches turns to crap', to quote another pathetic Ontarian politician.

    Keep him, I say, and he'll be our best chance at keeping the Conservatives out of power here. Sure, Dilbert Mcguity's no hero of mine but he sure screwed over Ontario and Toronto a lot less than his Conservative predecessors.
  15. Voice of Reason from Canada writes:
    John Tory loses his own seat.

    But the popular vote for the Green Party increases three-fold.

    Hey, John, its the environement stupid!
  16. Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: It appears no one could get enough of the voters out anyway. Less that 50% cast their ballots! But you can be sure 100% be not the least bit shy about giving their opinions about whoever runs the government.
  17. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: Your to honest for politics Mr. Tory. Enter back into the business world where you were extremely successful.
  18. bill mcdonald from Canada writes: Would have, should have, but didn't vote P.C. Day after the election and he said the issue of faith based funding is still there. Guy obviously doesn't learn from his mistakes or listen to what the citizens of Ontario are telling him. Hope the door doesn't hit your a$$ too hard on the way out .
  19. Shawn Bull from Canada writes: d mills from toronto: Your being dishonest. The CFL improved under his leadership. As did Rogers. Bill Davis looked at Mr. Tory as his right hand man.

    So on the contrary, everything John Tory got involved with improved.

    Your not Dalton McGuinty d. Mills so don't BS us.
  20. John Silverman from Canada writes: ACtually voter turnout was 52.6% as per the Elections Ontario official site.
  21. A S from Toronto, Canada writes: Too bad about Tory. My family voted for him b/c we wanted a change and he seemed solid. However, was disappointed with his:
    1) negative attack ads
    2) vying for the Liberal 'Education' Minister's seat in DV West
    3) support for faith-based (mainly Jewish) school funding *he should've proposed ending Catholic school funding, which would've given him a landslide victory - those votes went to the Green Party
    4) his inability/reluctance to address legitimate issues (ie. healthcare, taxes).
    Tory thought he was 'safe enough' to propose a 'small' issue that would win him the Jewish/Muslim vote in the 905 area and not disrupt his core base. Huge miscalculation on his part - very poor political judgment on many levels. I'm quite surprised given his family's powerful standing and connections in Toronto.

    If Tory stays on (not convinced he should leave) he should learn to listen more to his advisors - his heart is in the right place. But fire the PR Director!
  22. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Not the Alliance - ironically, Kim Campbell took flak for saying that an election is no time to talk about policy. Sage advice had Tory taken it.

    Having heard his concession speech, I think Tory wants to stay on - but he can't say that, otherwise he comes off as arrogant. At the same time, I'm not sure that the party members (especially the MPPs) want him. A reporter asked Randy Hillier if Tory should stay on. Hillier's response? I'll have to consider it. Ouch.
  23. Starting Over from Ontario, Canada writes: Punt!
  24. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Voice of Reason - Green was the new blue yesterday. I lot of card-carrying PC said they voted Green (which sort of fit the popular vote numbers - I think the disgruntled Liberals voted NDP). Question is, will Blue be the new Green in the next election?
  25. Marty McCluskey from Canada writes: John Tory was a misreable failure and he must do the honourable thing and resign. Tory can never present an effective opposition and Ontario cannot afford to have someone in opposition who is unable to represent a reasonable alternative. Tory has been a disaster for the PC party and every candidate who ran under the PC banner and has lost as a result of one guy's ego. Congratulatoins, Mr. Tory you single-handedly lost the election for all of us PC supporters.
  26. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: If John Tory had bothered to spend just ONE QUARTER of his time talking about what he was going to do to IMPROVE things instead of just trash-talking Dalton McGuinty non-stop he would have cruised to victory. But no, even when given a DIRECT opportunity to speak of his platform all he could do is yell 'McGuinty lied!' over and over again.

    As many others have said, don't let the door hit you on the way out there Johnny. Maybe Elizabeth Witmer will take over? She's my representative, won her seat here in Waterloo and is currently the Deputy leader (and a former minister of both Health and Education). She seemed like the strongest candidate in my area, though due to our current electoral system I had to vote against her because of the party she represented.
  27. Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: Get someone who isn't so darn negative and bases his entire campaign on bashing and complaining. It seems that's been the tactic of the Conservatives lately. Even on radio stations like CFRB in Toronto, Conservatively oriented people have been so overly outrageously negative. I'm not seeing any constructive solutions being put on the table. Way too much how the other guy is doing what you don't like him to do.
    Now, some of the things they say is legitimate. But failing to recognize and respect the positive aspects made Tory (and makes many Conservatives) look like a ...
  28. Mike........ Just Mike from Toronto, Canada writes: He is a nice enough fellow and miles better then that arrogant sob harris BUT in the end he just doesn't seem cut out for Politics. Believe it or not I would have liked to win Toronto's Mayoral race.
  29. D R from Canada writes: Lesson learned: Smear ads don't work.
  30. Rob R from Mississauga, Canada writes: I said in a post yesterday (much to Vern's delight) that I thought that Tory would not want to hang around and play 'second fiddle' to McGrunty as Opposition Leader! These new comments by Tory today would seem to bear out my conclusion that 'John Boy' knew he could not win and that maybe the 'Faith-based funding' issue was his way out. Let's be honest - even today most people are still baffled by this idiotic policy. What did Tory not understand from Davis's Separate School funding decision that cost Frank Miller the next election. It's almost as if Tory had the same 'death wish', politically speaking. I think that Tory is not the sort to stay the course and these comments seem to indicate that - do we really think he will hang around in the gallery until he gets another bye-election seat? He also knows that McGrunty will not run a Liberal against him in a bye-election. Why would he? Tory is now damaged goods - he's a loser of two straight elections that he should have won! McGrunty knows that if Tory is around next election time then he can still get some mileage from the faith funding debacle. Can't you just imagine McGrunty (or his successor) running off with this issue, trust and Tory's flip-flop? Sure it won't have the same impact as it did this time, but it will reopen old wounds and still cause Tory major problems. So, as I noted yesterday, I suspect that JT will be back off into the arms of 'Uncle Ted' or one of his other pals to a nice secure execuitive job with lots of cash and no hassles! Goodbye John - we hardly knew ya!.....but you sure are leaving one heck of a mess for your successor to clean up! Meanwhile 'The Grinch that jacked up our taxes bigtime' just smiles and chuckles to himself.
  31. Rusty Waters from Canada writes: One bible thumper gone, and I figure Harper will be next. Narrow minded religious views are not wanted in politics in Canada. Canadians are a educated people who want to be free from indoctrination. Maybe, Tory will get a job heading up a choir in the church of Elvis. Alpha, Omega.
  32. Henry Allen from Toronto, Canada writes: John Tory is a political science professor's dream come true. University poli sci classes will have a ball analyzing John Tory's 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory' plummet before the election. Stephane Dion is doing a pretty good simulation of the same drop, except Dion is doing it in agonizingly slow motion, which seems to be the way Dion likes to move.
  33. Voice of Reason from Canada writes:
    Emperor Joshua writes: 'Question is, will Blue be the new Green in the next election?'

    That should have been the case in this election, I say. We'll see next time.

    But I agree. More and more people are voting Green for the reasons you describe.

    Man!

    POLLS = The environment is the No. 1 issue

    TORY PLATFORM = Lets publicly fund religious schools

    What the f*ck!
  34. M. Thought from Calgary, Canada writes: Isn't he exactly what the Harper government is!! -except he couldn't hide who he; is unlike Stevie!
  35. Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: The Referendum seemed too be poorly explained or conceived. Maybe not enough public input? Might work with the Federal Senate though. Having all seats determined by percentage of popular votes.
  36. Michael Enright from Toronto, Canada writes: D R from Canada writes: Lesson learned: Smear ads don't work - unless you use the liberal fronted workingfamilies.ca group to keep your hands clean.
  37. Voice of Reason from Canada writes:
    Best thing John Tory did in this election was make a decent pasta dish on Breakfest Television one morning.
  38. Vladimir Kolcza from Toronto, Canada writes: I think John Tory had a 'Eureka!' moment. Perhaps it hap;pened the one-millionth time he was told he HANDED McGUINTY VICTORY on a silver platter with his jaw-flapping nonsense about religious school funding. On the BRIGHT side, Tory has managed to hijack a provincial election with a tertiary issue but, in the process, also managed to shine the spotlight on one of the greatest indecencies in Ontario - the existence of a separate school system for Catholics. The McGuinty line about this being 'Ontario's constitutional obligation' has been exposed for the BS that it is. THREE PROVINCES have aleady shifted their entire systems to language-based ones - Quebec, NFLD/Labrador and Saskatchewan. Ontario has NO EXCUSE.... I was chatting with Catholic-teacher neighbours of mine who agree that this is the beginning of the separate and unfair Catholic system's end. They tell me that administrators and teachers alike in the separate system KNOW that the party will be coming to an end soon. I suspect it will be Ontario's courts who finally force the government's hand. It'll be interesting to see what individual/group will take the province to court over this issue. So, in the end, John Tory has done everyone in Ontario a big favour. Also, Tory will have managed to accomplish precisely the opposite of his stated commitment. I hate to point this out, but this is clear proof that John Tory would have been a GREATER disaster as premier than McGuinty will be. The downside? McGuinty will still be a disaster as premier, and Ontarians will pay, pay, pay for McGjuinty's stupdities.
  39. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Rob R - I thought that too, when he choose Don Valley as his riding. To win that riding, he would have had to be popular enough to reduce the Libs to a minority if not the Opp. If the worst happened (ie last night) and the PC lost, then he would likely lost the seat too - which is how it played out. Thing is, why not resign in his concession speech like Paul Martin did? That way he could take the blame for the election with him and let the new leader start fresh.
  40. Mike Dupuis from Canada writes: Take it easy on calling Harris a SOB. I happened to have seen him on a daily basis back in the late 80s. He is actually a very nice man. I worked in the same building as his office.

    Conservatives need another leader like Mike Harris. The only politician that I ever new that did what he said he would do. We will need another leader like Harris to fix all the screw ups that the Liberals are doing now.
  41. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Eric Kirkpatrick - except the House is supposed to be based on proportional representation. I say that the Senate should be equal for the ten provinces (not sure about the territories - maybe all three combined = one province?). But to sweeten such a deal for the province (in particular Ontario and Quebec), make the Senator positions appointed by the provincial legislatures (requiring a vote) and remove the senatorial and grandfather clauses on the House.
  42. Phillip Patriotic from Homeandhearth, Canada writes: It's definitely up to party members if they want 'Cliff Claven' to stay on as leader.

    It will be a somewhat difficult choice; on one hand, they can again try to optimize the support and respect that Cliff had leading up to the campaign/in the early stages of the campaign, but on the other hand, if the party changes its stance (on religious-based education funding which it probably will do given the will of the people), are people ever going to believe Cliff again?
  43. b benton from Thornhill, Canada writes: John Tory certainly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with his religious schools policy. Plus he lost his own riding. Plus he lost conservative seats and percentage of popular vote after starting from a virtual tie.

    Never mind what the conservative party thinks John, the people of Ontario have been crystal clear. Time to pack up and go. Your party won't be saying anything different.
  44. F E from Ottawa, Canada writes: John tory is a good guy and is learning the game of politics. He turned the PC's around and overcame the 10 million hole it was in. Now that there is no debt he can focus on one thing, being a politician. give him another chance I'll say. In 4 years we will need change and a better John tory can gives us that,
  45. Vern McPherson from writes: It was amazing this morning on another thread watching the COns paid posters still posting after all was lost.

    Maybe they felt giulty getting a Torybonus in advance ??
  46. Matthew Peterson from Canada writes: Separating issues from red herrings, I look at the issue this way. Tory had a win two months ago. He drove it into the ground. Tory had a win over Miller in Toronto several years ago, and he lost that too.

    I don't doubt that Tory is intelligent, but he's neither bright nor wise. As someone said, an executive before a politician.
  47. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: The fact that Tory managed to screw up a gift wrapped election indicates that he should step down.
  48. Nature Lover from Two Hills, Canada writes: “You can't stay where you're not wanted to stay, quite frankly,” Duh, where do they get these rocket scientists from. You CAN'T stay if you're voted off the island.
  49. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: 'Get someone who isn't so darn negative and bases his entire campaign on bashing and complaining.'

    But it works so well for Harper!
  50. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: Tory was influenced by the wrong crowd, as is Harper, and for that reason Harper will also go down, because the world is against the advisers. End of story.
  51. Jay Bird from Canada writes: It's funny that we complain about politicians yet overwhelmingly vote in a known liar. Now I am finally convinced that the populace is filled with more hot air than politicians. Sheep!
  52. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Shawn Bull, 'Everything Tory got involved with improved.'

    You might want to ask Kim about that.

    Rumour has it that Tim Hudac is being thought of for the next leader. I hope this happens. It would almost guarantee a third Lib mandate.

    His resume' would show a political science degree from a school in the States, a stint as a student traffic director at the border and a short lived (months apparently) as a department store manager.

    It seems that the PC's and Con's prefer GQ over IQ. Harper and Tory have their hairstylists and Hudac ( perma grin) has his dental program.
  53. Margaret Jackson from Toronto, writes: All my Conservative friends voted for the Liberals or Green mostly because of the faith-based school funding. These included people who send their children to private schools.
    And, even though several of my friends (myself included) were educated Catholic, we would like to see the end of Catholic school funding. We just don't think it is doable right now since almost half the province is Catholic. The point about Tory's platform is that, although it would be fair to fund all religious school, it is a step away from no religious school funding. The wrong direction entirely.

    As for the campaign as a whole, Tory's initial ads were about leadership. But, Tory showed no leadership - all he did was say negative things about McGuinty. He spent no time saying what he would do better.

    There are so many other things that he did to annoy my Conservative friends. In the end, he lost all of their votes. Since some of them live in his riding, this cost him his seat too.
  54. MJ Patchouli from Regina, Canada writes: Y'all smell blood in the water. Give the guy a day or two to absorb the horrendous loss he's suffered and he'll resign.
  55. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: See ya John, go thru the door quickly, it closes with a bang. Would not want to see you get hurt. Leave now, dont wait for someone to show you where the door is and which way it swings.
  56. always right from Canada writes: Michael Enright, you hit the nail on the head. The PC's might as well copy the Liberals' tactic of setting up an outfit like workingfamilies and use them to paint Dalton as the lying, hypocritical craven fraud that he is.
  57. T. Scott from Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: 'Get someone who isn't so darn negative and bases his entire campaign on bashing and complaining.'

    But it works so well for Harper!

    Why? This is not a rhetorical question. Any opinions?
  58. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: The public sector unions sure did a nice job on Mr.Tory.Sadly,he refused to
    take them on.It must be nice to be able to pick our own boss,then extract
    more money from them, via the taxpayer.I,m waiting for a new education
    tax,similar to the health tax,or maybe a bump in the sales tax.Why don,t we
    just sell the whole province to the teachers pension fund.
  59. Alexander The Great from Canada writes: The PCs have no room left for them in the parties that call themselves Conservative in this country. John Tory was rare, and now he too is gone. The Liberal Party is basically the only place they can go.
  60. Illwind Hot Air from High Above Toronto, Canada writes: Goodbye Mr. Tory. Thanks for all the memories.
  61. Illwind Hot Air from High Above Toronto, Canada writes: Goodbye Mr. Tory! Thanks for all the memories. 50% voter turn out. How pathetic. Looks like Ontarians would rather have someone who lies to them and I mean big time lies instead of someone who would run Ontario like a business.
  62. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Joseph Whistle writes: 'Get someone who isn't so darn negative and bases his entire campaign on bashing and complaining.'

    Philosopher King writes: 'But it works so well for Harper!'

    T. Scott writes: 'Why? This is not a rhetorical question. Any opinions?'

    You mean besides the fact that you could smell the Liberal party from orbit, or besides the fact that Jack Layton is breeding catapillars on his face?

    The sasquatch could've won a minority government last time around, and given the prospects for March's election I don't think they're in any danger of losing this time either.

    You won't see a majority, but Harper will definitely improve his standing this time. That should hold the leadership for him long enough to run at it again.
  63. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Dwayne Allen, re. our discussion re. Nanticoke scrubbers, the billion dollars to implement them would create more than a few 'hundred' jobs and they wouldn't be as redundant as you think. That plant powers 2.5 million homes, shutting it down is not going to be an option anytime soon & only a 'say anything to get elected' politician would promise to do so.
    And when I mentioned 'hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs', I was referring to jobs LOST on McGuinty's watch.

    As for Petesen, C.S., this wikipedia article quotes 'Petersen's extension of 'full funding to Catholic Schools'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Peterson

    C.S. whines about wikipedia being inaccurate yet he uses it to support his point.
    The bottom line here is that although Davis' government & Petersen's are to blame, the Catholics should not be the only religion worthy of public school funds.
  64. Neil McKenty from Montreal, Canada writes: John Tory might want to stay but he hasn't a hope. Is there any one who thinks Tory will lead the Conservatives to power in 2011? He is damaged goods and as soon as possible the party should ask for a refund.
  65. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Alexander The Great from Canada writes: 'The PCs have no room left for them in the parties that call themselves Conservative in this country. John Tory was rare, and now he too is gone.'

    It simply can't stay this way. Canadians need two center-line choices to keep the politicians on their toes. I'm sick of voting Green, and without Martin at the finance helm I can't vote Liberal either.

    The CPC is getting much more centrist of late, but I'm still waiting for something to tip the balance for me. McGuinty's win sure helps! LOL
  66. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Frank Klees has already been contacted to be the interim leader.
  67. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: '...when I mentioned 'hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs', I was referring to jobs LOST on McGuinty's watch.'

    We have the lowest unemployment in nearly 40 years and more jobs than ever in the history of Canada, and your complaint is the loss of manufacturing jobs?

    Here's a clue: No matter who forms government in the next few decades, the number of manufacturing jobs will continue to drop, and higher paying jobs will continue to be created.

    This isn't a partisan thing, it's called not being a second tier economy.
  68. R D from Canada writes: Ontario had a choice to elect a statesman and a gentleman with vision. Instead they fell back on a liar who still thinks government has a role in propping up business. You know the old addage, you get the government you deserve. Well done Ontario.
    And all over a plan to have you get a say on how education would be funded - amazing!
  69. MJ Patchouli from Regina, Canada writes: You know, several of you are complaining about low voter turnout -- surely you remember that when Tory announced his religious schools plan, that many con supporters here said they simply would not vote.

    I would say those are the people here with most to say negative; too bad -- you can't bother to vote, then no complaints, eh?
  70. Alexander The Great from Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: The CPC is getting much more centrist of late, but I'm still waiting for something to tip the balance for me. McGuinty's win sure helps! LOL

    I too feel the way you do about McGuinty, but there is no way I will ever believe this CPC party is moving to the centre. The hidden agenda is not so hidden anymore now that Flanagan wrote his book. The CPC is basically play acting until they get a majority.
  71. Neo the Con from Calgary, Canada writes: Harper should make full use of Tory in the next federal election.
  72. R D from Canada writes: Matthew Peterson - he lost the mayorilty race because Miller promised to kill the island bridge. So same as in this election, Toronto got a useless mayor instead of an excelllent one over a red herring issue that really did not affect anyone.
  73. Coco Motion from Canada writes: Wondering if Alberta is hiring Firefighters? I think it is time that I moved out of this horrible province. It has NO direction and it really is getting annoying to watch a great Province spin counter clockwise down the crapper.
  74. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Philosopher King, McGuinty's Liberals have been riding our booming economy, they didn't create it. Our manufacturing jobs are the high-paying jobs and we've lost well over 100,000 on their watch. Sure, the 'help wanted' sign is up at Tim Horton's, but I don't consider this a high-paying replacement
  75. Alexander The Great from Canada writes: R D from Canada writes: Ontario had a choice to elect a statesman and a gentleman with vision. Instead they fell back on a liar who still thinks government has a role in propping up business.

    The same thing can be said about the federal scene. Dion is gentleman with a vision, Harper is a liar who props up big oil companies.
  76. J M from Realityville, Canada writes: John Tory. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. Go to Alberta which is probably the one place that you could actually get elected.
  77. Ethan Train from Buffalo, United States writes: Dear John Tory. Don't wait for the knives to come out before you fade off into the night. You failed the party, you failed yourself - what reason would the PC's have for keeping you on board? Get on with your life, and let the party get on with its.
  78. Chris H from To, Canada writes: All of those who would liken Tory to Harris or Harper - or call him a bible thumper support my hypothesis that many people who voted against him did so based on a campaign of misinformation by the Liberals. Tory ran this campaign as a red tory - his politics were very different from Harper and Harris. Too bad so few people bothered to learn about him before labelling him a neo-con.

    I personally hope he stays in politics - I think he could make a great contribution to the province and the PC party - however - I do not know how possible this is after suffering such a spectacular defeat.
  79. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Neo the Con from Calgary, Canada writes: Harper should make full use of Tory in the next federal election.

    How so? By getting the Liberals to hire him as a consultant for their campaign? Tory botched up a sure fire win. He may be a nice guy but he's a moron. Of all the issues to nail McGuinty on he went with Faith based schools.... ugh!
  80. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Alexander The Great from Canada writes: 'I too feel the way you do about McGuinty, but there is no way I will ever believe this CPC party is moving to the centre...The CPC is basically play acting until they get a majority.'

    I have my concerns here too. I'm your classic red tory essentially. At some point however we're going to have to give this CPC a chance because Canadians can't continue with but a single centrist choice, and there's virtually no chance of them disappearing and another conservative party forming.

    Either Harper will learn where his bread is buttered, or he will use the rope we give him to hang himself. Either is fine with me.

    The fact that federal Liberals really aren't doing so well these days makes this the time. Unless Dion can pull another come from behind, he's toast.
  81. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Last night Global News was interviewing different people, and one of their female reporters, clearly upset at Tory's loss and clearly hating McGuinty, accused McGuinty of 'winning by default', pointing out all the ways Tory should have won. The man she was interviewing (I'm sorry I can't recall his name) has been a political critic for over 25 years, and in a very excellent way pointed out that all the talk of someone winning who 'shouldn't have' is, in his experience, indicative only of how sore the losers are.

    And they were sore last night! I was really surprised at both Global, the CBC, and CTV's coverage, their choice of language. They said Liberal candidate's 'slipped by' a PC candidate, when the Lib has 47% and the Tory had like 30%. Hardly 'slipping' by. When a PC candidate won a riding, they used terms like 'a bright light for the Tories'. They were doing this on all stations. They were upset because McGuinty did his speech before Tory did - since when does the PREMIER have to wait aside for the loser's speeches, especially when other networks were threatening to switch to the news at 11 (which is why McGuinty's speech when on at 10:45).

    No comment on McGuinty's speech, which was easily one of the best speeches I've ever heard. The part about acknowledging that not everyone voted for him but that he wanted to serve those people to, wanted the involvement of all Ontarians and not just his own party faithfuls, was ground-breaking.

    Yet endless coverage of Tory's progressively irritating over-congratulating of McGuinty and the Liberals, of saying in the same breath he is an accountable party leader and then staying on after his dual defeat. Yeah, yeah, Tory, we all know you lost because 'Ontario wasn't ready to raise the bar' and you're just so chock full of integrity you'll stuff it down our throats.
  82. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: Erik,

    The Referendum issue was handled quite poorly here. Had people been given enough information about the issue - and in clear, plain language as it's a difficult topic - they might have made a different decision. Not enough was done to simplify the issue for everyone and to ensure they were given enough time to digest and understand the question that would be put to them. A huge failure on the part of Elections Ontario, and quite frankly, embarrassing for everyone. We're one of very few Western style democracies that do NOT have some form of proportional representation. Minority governments are not necessarily bad as they offer checks and balances for the presiding government. Also, it would have meant that the Green Party, which received quite a bit of popular support, would have a seat at the table.

    Such a travesty, and a total f**k-up by Elections Ontario.
  83. Allan Eizinas from Simcoe, Canada writes: .
    I have met John Tory and I believe that he would make an exception manager of Ontario. Unfortunately, he has painted himself with the 'full public funding for all religious school' paint brush and that can make him unelectable.

    If on the other hand, he decides that to achieve the equality of education that he was striving for, he would now decide to push for removal of public funding from Catholic schools then he may have an opportunity for political redemption.
  84. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: As for MMP, the Libs won last night both in terms of the first past the post AND the popular vote.

    It is insulting to say that Tory only lost because of the faith-based school issue. Tory lost because he had nothing to offer except negativity and divisiveness.

    I'm just happy that with Harper threatening federal election all over the place, 2 provinces have just demonstrated they are unlikely to be manipulated as easily as he'd like to think. Of course everyone already knew that except Harper and his Followers.
  85. Jon the Con from Canada writes: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_15664.aspx

    And so it begins.

    Hold on to you wallets folks.
  86. Alexander The Great from Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes:Either Harper will learn where his bread is buttered, or he will use the rope we give him to hang himself. Either is fine with me.

    it's seems hard enough for Harper to bend with a minority, I can't imagine he will care much about the PC's if he ever gets his majority and is locked into power. I think he knows his bread is buttered in Alberta, and more specifically Encana.

    I like John Tory, and think he deserves a second chance in Ontario...or he should move on to the federal circuit...
  87. Job of the book from Canada writes: You know, as much as I'm against funding religious schools at least John Tory was honest about it. The current system is unfair. you either fund all of them or none of them. None of this catholic preference B.S. I'm against funding of religious schools in general, but still. he was honest about it. I'll give him that much. Even if I'm not fond of his policies in general.
  88. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Banofee Pie from Toronto: I don't agree. Again, I think this is what that commentator was referring to as being a sore loser.

    I voted against MMP. Many many people I know did. Not because they were misinformed, but because they didn't agree with it.

    In fact, with a few short sentences I talked several people out of it - people who desperately wanted more proportional representation and who themselves were misinformed by the MMP side about how that was going to work. When they understood the complexities of it, they decided it was not for them.

    A group of people lobbied the government to create a non-partisan party to recommend a new way of voting. People looked at it. It was rejected. The people have spoken.
  89. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: 'Philosopher King, McGuinty's Liberals have been riding our booming economy, they didn't create it. Our manufacturing jobs are the high-paying jobs and we've lost well over 100,000 on their watch. Sure, the 'help wanted' sign is up at Tim Horton's, but I don't consider this a high-paying replacement.'

    Who said McGuinty of all people created a booming economy? God forbid any idiot should say that. I know it must feel like all the jobs are at McDonald's when you're trained in manufacturing, but honestly that's not the case.

    If the high paying jobs are all manufacturing as you say, then either you've set your sites too low, or have justified why companies move their manufacturing to China.
  90. D BARTA from Canada writes: Memo to John Tory; Don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way home - You are totally to blame for your party's demise at the polls -
    Thanks to you we are stuck with more years of Dalton Dolittle doing little - Your 15 minits of fame are over - Good-by...........
  91. Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner, Canada writes: I just can't believe that a government that has so ineptly presided over the Caledonia disaster can be re-elected or elected at all. What do the citizens under assault and armed threat in Caledonia do now? The people of Ontario have chosen to live without rule of law.
  92. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Alexander The Great from Canada writes: '...it's seems hard enough for Harper to bend with a minority, I can't imagine he will care much about the PC's if he ever gets his majority and is locked into power.'

    Perhaps, but then the guy does get trashed from every angle right now and is attempting to hold together the smallest minority government in the history of Canada.

    Maybe if he had a large minority or a small majority he might feel more magnanimous? I don't know, but I will tell you that unless the Libs get it together, Canadians are going to try it out sooner or later.
  93. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner: I'm sorry, what exactly, precisely, was Tory going to do about Caledonia? That is a long, complicated situation, my friend, one much more complicated than your suggestion that one side is simply under armed threat of another?

    But seriously, what PRECISELY would Tory have done, and where does Chuck Strahl's bungling of the situation come into it? How about Harper's firing of the people who were experts in the aboriginal file and working on resolutions for decades in favour of back-room cronies with no knowledge?
  94. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: How many PC parties does this guy need to trash before he gets the point?

    Tory, go home!
  95. Ramesh Fernando from Canada writes: John Tory is a good man. He was honest which is more than I can say for other politicians. The problem is he bad terrible advisers and tried to go after special interest vote while thinking the strong majority of Ontario would support him. They didn't and he lost his own seat. I personally thing Mr. Tory should stay on. Premier McGuinty also lost his first election against fomer Premier Harris and went on to get a majority the next time. I find it hard to believe John Tory lost only because of his faith based funding. It was more like he couldn't get his message out about McGuinty broken track record on taxes, coal fire plants and the environment, health care and education. Unfortunately, the grassroots in the Tories probably want Tory out. It's a real shame that he will be forced out because he is a real classy gentleman compared to the meaness of Mike Harris or the dishonesty of McGuinty. I doubt Finance Minister Flaherty will leave federal politics for another run as provincial leader, so it would probably be a newcomer. Definitely not like Eves from Harris's cabinet or Frank Miller from Premier Davis' cabinet.
  96. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Philosopher King writes: our manufacturing jobs pay too much, as evidenced by their migration to China.

    PK, you are spot on. How can we compete with China? Wage rates of a few bucks per week. Zero safety, pollution or labour regulations to accommodate...and on our side of the planet we have to oblige our bloodthirsty unions...

    What were we thinking when we swung the doors of trade wide open with China?
    How long will our competitiveness be held ransom by outrageous union wages?
  97. Jon the Con from Canada writes: Message to all Ontario Mayors.

    The residents of Ontario don't mind tax inceases and
    terrible leadership.
  98. Ethan Train from Buffalo, United States writes: The Referendum issue was dead in the water even before it became public knowledge. People in Canada seldom vote for radical change, and when that change doesn't appear to be for the better there is no way they will support it. The MMP system has major flaws, and if the people of Ontario truly want to change their system they should first, pick a less radical move, second, pick a system that has a better chance of succeeding, and third pick a system that is evolutionary. The Citizens' Committee wasted its time trying to be idealistic in a rational environment.
  99. Hugh McNeil from Toronto, Canada writes: I can sum up everything I know about John Tory as a leader by two issues: The first is the funding religious schools issue, and; his advertising stating that McGuinty was suing the parents of Autistic children. So, is it any wonder he lost?
  100. One of the few anglos left in Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: When you lose your own seat = bye bye!
  101. Pretty Much from Canada writes: This election was about as boring to watch as good old Ontario is.

    Tory was campaigning Stevie style and that s---t dont fly out in Ontario. Why didnt he question Dalton on the Caledonia issue, the autisim issue. He didnt say what his own policies were going to be. I was confused really if we even had an election.
  102. D K from York Region, Ontario, Canada writes: I am from so called 905 belt around Toronto - area that traditionally voted for Conservatives and in whose interests they were supposed to act. However, Mike Harris and now John Tory somehow managed to alienate even their traditional electorate. I don't know why people are discussing those faith-based schools. Not sure wheither these schools are good or bad but from my point of view, it was just plain stupid John Tory's election move, and I was thinking like 'Well, they could do this stupidity now, and how many more stupid things can they do if they get elected?' I don't want to go back to Mike Harris' times with all that blatant disregard to public opinion. And let's not to forget that John Tory was CEO of Rogers Cable, company that loses customers since invention of satellite TV. They still cannot figure out response to these satellite dishes! It is a company that was a monopoly since 1950 years, they always dictated customers that we can and what we cannot have. This is exactly that John Tory did as CEO and PC candidate later. And after loosing municipal and provincial elections, people are talking about him going in federal politics. Gimme a break! :)
  103. Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner, Canada writes: Forget the file Don Jenkins from Canada. This is not a complex issue, it is a basic issue of rule of law. When a gang takes over a town or a neighbourhood you send the police in to arrest and charge them. If I have a dispute with you I don't set up a road block restricting your access to your home or business. I don't come into your home and beat you up. These thugs deserve their day in court and long prison sentences if convicted. Armed occupation and violence are not acceptable means of settling disputes. Do you want various armed gangs fighting it out for supremecy in your neighbourhood Don or do you prefer democracy and rule of law?
  104. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby: Would it surprise you to know that while China manufactures the majority of goods sold in North America, the majority of the profit ends up in the West? As in 0.97 cents on the dollar?

    The West owns virtually everything in this regard.

    Look, as a trade specialist I'll tell you this right now: the number of manufacturing jobs will continue to plummet no matter who takes the reins in government. Lashing out at one politician or another is meaningless.

    This only seems bad when folks like my father who was trained for nothing else, can't get a job anymore. This doesn't mean though that there aren't more and better jobs being created, only that he isn't qualified for them.

    When I was younger I never thought for a moment I would spend all day on a computer. I couldn't even type.

    Times change though and along with them our way of life must also change.

    You gotta roll with it.
  105. Kiranpal Sohi from Ajax, writes: By the comments I'm reading Ontarians really have nothing important or unique or new to say. They like having the same old crap.

    'Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often'.

    But Ontarians have voted Liberal thus stating they are perfectly fine with having the current 'diaper' carry the 'load'. Thus Ontarian will carry the same crap around for another 4 years! Enjoy the smell cause its only going to get worse from here on.
  106. mike sty from Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: For the Ontarians who yesterday voted Liberal, and who can read:

    Thank you for guaranteeing the rest of us another 4 years of double-digit property tax increases.
    Thank you for supporting higher taxes, increased deficit, increased social spending and higher tuition rates and auto insurance rates

    BLAH....BLAH....BLAH.....BLAH.......How many times you gonna post the same whiney crap???????????????

    ----------------------------------

    Thank you Dalton for not cutting taxes and putting Ontario into a 6 BILLION deficit as Mike Harris and Flaherty did.

    Thank you Dalton for not being the red neck barrel sucking Harris conservatives and get us into another Ipperwash.

    Thank you Dalton for not cutting taxes and firing all those health care nurses we need and not have to hire them back 5 years latter.

    Thank you Dalton for not terrorizing our educational teachers and having no classroom time lost due to strike's.

    Thank you Dalton for not cutting taxes to cut water testing procedures and kill 7 people in Walkerton as the Harris gov't did in 2000.

    Thank you Dalton for NOT being a PC.
  107. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: With the loss of MMP there is little hope for Ontario.

    In 26 federal elections since 1921 there have been 16 majority governments elected but only 2 that actually commanded a majority of the vote. The rest were minorities posing as majorities, wielding undivided power though as many as 5 voters in 8 voted against them.

    MMP was our chance to join the majority of the free world that uses list members but instead Ontarians have opted to stick with our broken system. Of course, it has already been readily admitted that the vast majority of Ontarians were clueless as far as their knowledge of the referendum goes, and it shows

    Last federal election in Quebec the NDP got 2.6 million votes which got them 19 seats. The bloc got 1 million LESS votes and wound up with 51 seats!
    What could be worse than a system which delegates a bloc vote to be worth more than 4 NDP votes?
  108. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Joseph Whistle from Canada writes: 'Get someone who isn't so darn negative and bases his entire campaign on bashing and complaining.'

    You would have to replace all major parties (Conservative, Liberals and NDP) to accomplish that. All 3 spent the entire campaign pointing fingers, blaming and complaining. No one, not even Tory (who I voted for) had a vision. It was a case of picking the lesser of evils. Not a good position to be in if you are a voter.
  109. Jon the Con from Canada writes: So now I know where my health tax is going ..... to pay all the health care folks double-time for the 'Dalton Day'.
  110. Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner, Canada writes: It's a question of what works Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby. Proportional Representation schemes have been disasterous around the world. You end up with say 29 parties and then the vote buying orgy begins. The government ends up unable to act apart from the constant corrupt buying of votes.
  111. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Cyrus, I've been involved on scrubber/precipitator jobs in the past and overall they do include only a few hundred jobs which in reality are short term. Although the project may take a couple of years, for many it is a case of 6-8 months and then their field of service is no longer required and their job on the project ends. You also fail to acknowledge that scrubbers are not the answer to really cleaning up emissions and gasses. You also ignored where I pointed out to that well Hydro is the biggest polluter in Ontario that doesn't mean that it is the biggest contributor to Ontario's poor air, as the majority of Nanticokes emissions head across Lake Erie and move to the US east coast. Much like the Ohio valley is a huge polluter, but doesn't necessarily contaminate Ohio as much of what it spews comes north to us. As for McG floating on a booming economy, what exactly was Harris getting by on? That certainly wasn't a recession and if I recall, he coasted about how Ontario hadn't seen the times so good. This was mostly due to a booming US economy. If I also recall correctly we were losing good jobs then as well. GM, Ford and Chrysler. Not to mention Stelco, Camco and others. You also forgot to mention that the PC's also voted for that 25% raise for themselves as well. In the past you also showed support for Hudac, well here's a link showing how your pure white Tories aren't as clean as you'd like us to believe and how the Harrisites fed themselves with your's, mine and the rest of Ontarians dollars: ontariotenants.ca/electricity/articles/2004/hs-04b26.phtml or ontariotenants/electricity/articles/2004/sun04b25.phtml or ontariotenants/electricity/articles/2004/cp-04c04.phtml or cbc.ca/canada/ottawa.story/2004/02/24/ot_ont-tories20040224.html This was all for a couple e-mails and a 1 page report. For a look at how in house backstabbing, try this link: electricityforum.com/new/mar04/politicalhydro.html PC's without fault? Not likely
  112. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Philosopher King, McGuinty has to be held accountable, at least to some extent, for the enormous losses of mfg jobs during his tenure.
    He has dictatorial powers yet what has he done for us in the manufacturing sector?? Nothing, he's too busy raising his own salary
  113. D K from York Region, Ontario, Canada writes: This morning, CityTV in Breakfast Television commented on devastating loss of John Tory 'but Dalton Mcguinty has nothing to do with it' Exactly. It seems Mr Tory is politically suicidal. He should stay away from politics :)
  114. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'It was amazing this morning on another thread watching the COns paid posters still posting after all was lost. '

    It is equally amazing how you managed to account for about 30% the posts on that threat and all you managed to do was demonstrate how well you can spout insolence rather than engage in intelligent, democratic debate. Anyone who disagrees with you seems to get little more than being called names and profanity that has been disguised so that the filters don't catch it. I respect your opinion but in return you should respect the opinion of others. Many of your posts would lead one to believe that you do not believe in democracy but would rather a socialist system where contesting the ruling party is a crime and forming a party that stands for values that you do not share be whipped.
  115. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Watcher1983 states: 'proportional representation schemes have been disastrous around the world'

    Not true, Watcher: 'proportional representation exists in most of the democratic world and in no country have any of the scare stories come to pass.

    Germany and New Zealand both use MMP. Their parliaments typically produce between four and eight parties, none of them extremist, with two large centrist parties as anchors. The same pattern is observed in other PR countries: Ireland, Australia, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark all currently have seven parties in their legislatures.

    Andrew Coyne is an expert, this from his 'fear mongers debunked' article: http://andrewcoyne.com/columns/2007/09/pr-fearmongers-debunked.php
  116. D Mores from Toronto, Canada writes: The story says, 'Mr. Tory, who is meeting with party members to discuss his future, acknowledged the school funding issue is 'very much still there.' '

    Will this guy not give it a rest? He still doesn't get it after a humiliating defeat.

    Some posters say he is a nice. I beg to differ. He let his party down. He let Ontarians down. He was inconsiderate to the true needs of the people in favour of his own belief system. He claimed it was based on principal and leadership, which is almost sociopathic in the way he tries to justify his own agenda.

    He let me down as someone I had hoped to provide a better alternative to McGuinty.

    I have no interest in John Tory being in politics. Go John, and please don't come back.
  117. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: I find it curious that many here contest the Liberal mandate and yet accept Harper's 18% of eligible vote. 18. Eighteen.
  118. R D from Canada writes: Alexander the Great - first Harper does not prop up the oil companies. Nothing new has been introduced by him in this area. If you think he has, please point the areas out that make you say that. Second what is Dion's vision - follow Kyoto (which he did not do as Environment Minister) despite the economic pain that would cause while really not doing anything about the global issue? Run from Afghanistan even though his government sent us there and moved to a combat mission? You and he know full well that that to do so is to abandon all the progress made to date, but it is a nice popular thing to say. What else is he promoting? I think Mcginty is a better comparison to Dion - both promise things that sound good but they have no intention of doing.
  119. Bruce Gerrard from Toronto, Canada writes: Another sad day for Ontario. Another win for Ontario's Lobby groups, the teachers pension and the 'working families'. Sad that the media and the lobby groups can steer the agenda of an election. Worse that the serious issues effecting our province are never fully articulated or debated. Until this province rids itself of the lobby groups that control the agenda democracy will always be the loser.
  120. gilles monenemie from Montreal, Canada writes: His next suicide mission should be to help lead harpers creepy creeping conservative agenda to stop it dead in its tracks. Good job Tory in taking down the tories. Progressive canadians thank you and hope you can continue your good work by joining the national tory turd team.
  121. Chris C from TO, Canada writes: Anyone who's been seen wandering among the man on the street -- you know, taking the pulse of the populace -- wearing a pink dress shirt is hopelessly, unredeemably out of touch as a poltician.
  122. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Dwayne Allen, My firm maintains & outfits much of the Nanticoke plant. If the $1B scrubber implementation were to proceed via only a few hundred jobs as you claim, they'd be most lucrative, wouldn't they? Those scrubbers would bolster many jobs at my plant alone.
    Yes it's true that they don't deplete the greenhouse emissions but they deplete 90 % of the heath-harming emissions which you can google and see that are harming Ontarians (not drifting off across the lake). That's important, isn't it? And it's 'something', as opposed to Dalton's tactic of doing nothing except breaking promises to close the plant.

    As for the Tories approving McGuinty's pay hike, yes it was nice & easy for them to ride along on that one, but Dalton promised 'every penny' of his largest tax increase in Ontario history would go towards health care. Instead he's allocated portions of those funds into his own pocket.
  123. Just Sayin' from Toronto, Canada writes: So, I'm not going pretend that this is a blanket statement here but it seems to me that the community on this board who are bitterly bashing the Liberals and John Tory's failure on the part of the Conservative Party are quite a bit more likely to write with poor grammar, fail to proofread, mis-spell words, and fail to present logically cohesive arguments.

    I'm not a fan of either the Liberals or the Conservatives but I am curious as to whether this is indicative of who the supporters are for these two parties or whether it is a product of these people angrily banging away at their keyboards. Another possibility is that these people are too busy working to spend time clarifying and proofreading what they have written. Possibly they are writing in a second language and haven't had the experience with English to manage all of its nuances.

    This is not to say that there aren't some very eloquent Conservative posters on this board, there are. Similarly, there are some incoherent Liberal/NDP supporter. It is simply a comment as to where, based on my unscientific assessment of the posts here, the dominant proportion of posters with weak command of the language seem to fall on this issue.
  124. Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner, Canada writes: You said it Just Sayin' from Toronto, unscientific.
  125. Illwind Hot Air from High Above Toronto, Canada writes: Dalton's first edict for the new legislature: a new holiday in February called 'familiy day'. Now why on earth would anyone want a holiday in the coldest month of the year? Why not have a statuary holiday in November, specifically Remembrance Day? That would make more sense to me.
  126. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Illwind, what really doesn't make sense is that Dalton's new holiday is estimated to cost Ontario $2B per year.

    How will he afford it? Same way he's afforded everything else: by increasing our taxes or our deficit.
  127. T B from Canada writes: Pretty obvious that the Ontario voters don't want him.
  128. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: 'Philosopher King, McGuinty has to be held accountable, at least to some extent, for the enormous losses of mfg jobs during his tenure.'

    If you insist you may blame the toothfairy as well, but it won't change the reality of the fact that Mcguinty is neither responsible for the economic boom, nor is he responsible for the loss of manufacturing jobs.

    In reality that was a choice made by the corporations I represent. They're not shy about making smart business decisions.

    If Canada did what was neccesary to regain those manufacturing jobs, you'd make about $8.00 an hour, and only because McGuinty raised the minimum wage.

    I am not trying to be callous, I'm trying to be honest in a way that might help you. Don't expect the manufacturing jobs to return because they won't.

    Find a way to take what you know and add value through specialized retraining. Best of luck.
  129. Maggie Now from Canada writes: How I wish he would go to Ottawa and run the campaign for Harper!
  130. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Illwind Hot Air - well, between Thanksgiving and Christmas (that's right, I said it) there are 6-7 weeks, but between New Years and Easter there are up to 12 weeks. I figure that breaking up the larger block made more sense to the Libs.
  131. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Dwayne Allen, I'll take Hudac's political science degree resume over a lawyer anyday.

    What's the difference between a dead dog and a dead lawyer on the road?
    There are skid marks in front of the dog.
  132. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Why do ppl keep focusing on the manufacturing jobs lost? Unemployment is at a RECORD low for the country. Think about it, if 100 manufacturing jobs are lost, while overall 500 jobs are gained (as a simple example), the net is 400 growth! It's like paying $1 for an apple, and getting the rest of your groceries for free, but then complaining they ripped you off for the apple! Just do the math, it's really that simple. Reality is North America is outsourcing most of the manufacturing jobs to China & India and is moving towards a KNOWLEDGE BASED ECONOMY. This means that those jobs that did not require post secondary education are going to decrease over the next 20 years, and more and more jobs will require a degree/diploma in order to do the technical work involved. We're sitting here posting on an internet blog that didn't even exist 2 years ago on the G&M, guess who do is in charge of running this board?! Think about it people, everyone has a choice to go to school (take a student loan if you don't have money, which I personally did), study and get a better job that has a more stable future. We are not going to go backwards, only forwards, which will REQUIRE more sophistication from our workforce. As for Tory, it's been said already 1) Faith base schools 2) Negative Campaign 3) Not getting his message out, lead to his demise, he didn't even win a seat, talk about getting destroyed in this election, time for a new PC leader. The liberals were the ONLY choice in this election and hence, they won.
  133. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Why do ppl keep focusing on the manufacturing jobs lost? Unemployment is at a RECORD low for the country. Think about it, if 100 manufacturing jobs are lost, while overall 500 jobs are gained (as a simple example), the net is 400 growth! It's like paying $1 for an apple, and getting the rest of your groceries for free, but then complaining they ripped you off for the apple! Just do the math, it's really that simple. Reality is North America is outsourcing most of the manufacturing jobs to China & India and is moving towards a KNOWLEDGE BASED ECONOMY. This means that those jobs that did not require post secondary education are going to decrease over the next 20 years, and more and more jobs will require a degree/diploma in order to do the technical work involved. We're sitting here posting on an internet blog that didn't even exist 2 years ago on the G&M, guess who do is in charge of running this board?! Think about it people, everyone has a choice to go to school (take a student loan if you don't have money, which I personally did), study and get a better job that has a more stable future. We are not going to go backwards, only forwards, which will REQUIRE more sophistication from our workforce. As for Tory, it's been said already 1) Faith base schools 2) Negative Campaign 3) Not getting his message out, lead to his demise, he didn't even win a seat, talk about getting destroyed in this election, time for a new PC leader. The liberals were the ONLY choice in this election and hence, they won.
  134. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Good points, Philosopher King, but Dalton's at the helm, not the toothfairy. I'm not specifically blaming him for the losses of those jobs, I'm just wondering when he will do something about it. The Tories outlined plans to combat those losses...Dalton, per usual, has done nothing.
  135. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: 'Philosophy king' telling people what wage they would earn? That's hilarious. P.K. you are the stereotypical wimpy Canuck male...mediocre salary, dominated by women, having your little 'attitude.' Never leave your little world, Herr Friedman, because the world's reality will open your eyes to what your petty existence is truly about and that might lead to a one-way swim in the lake.
  136. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Sorry, this board doesn't seem to recognize 'enter' strokes, here it is again: Why do ppl keep focusing on the manufacturing jobs lost? Unemployment is at a RECORD low for the country. Think about it, if 100 manufacturing jobs are lost, while overall 500 jobs are gained (as a simple example), the net is 400 growth! It's like paying $1 for an apple, and getting the rest of your groceries for free, but then complaining they ripped you off for the apple! Just do the math, it's really that simple. Reality is North America is outsourcing most of the manufacturing jobs to China & India and is moving towards a KNOWLEDGE BASED ECONOMY. This means that those jobs that did not require post secondary education are going to decrease over the next 20 years, and more and more jobs will require a degree/diploma in order to do the technical work involved. We're sitting here posting on an internet blog that didn't even exist 2 years ago on the G&M, guess who do is in charge of running this board?! Think about it people, everyone has a choice to go to school (take a student loan if you don't have money, which I personally did), study and get a better job that has a more stable future. We are not going to go backwards, only forwards, which will REQUIRE more sophistication from our workforce. As for Tory, it's been said already 1) Faith base schools 2) Negative Campaign 3) Not getting his message out, lead to his demise, he didn't even win a seat, talk about getting destroyed in this election, time for a new PC leader. The liberals were the ONLY choice in this election and hence, they won.
  137. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Smoothfan, why do ppl keep calling Tory's campaign 'negative'. After all, he was only discussing Dalton's record...
  138. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: Just Sayin is on to something. There seems to be a relationship between lack of education and reactionist diatribe. I sincerely hope the Sun begins 'a conversation' and these idealogues will leave us in peace.
  139. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Chris C from TO, Canada writes: Anyone who's been seen wandering among the man on the street -- you know, taking the pulse of the populace -- wearing a pink dress shirt is hopelessly, unredeemably out of touch as a poltician.
    __________________________

    Good post. Tory has been too out of touch with regular people. Too 'upper Canada Tory' for too long.

    Mel Lastman would have done better.
  140. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Illwind Hot Air from High Above Toronto, Canada writes: 'Dalton's first edict for the new legislature: a new holiday in February called 'familiy day'. Now why on earth would anyone want a holiday in the coldest month of the year?'

    The majority of Ontarians do, as stated every February over the past twenty years when the media polls people on this very question ad nauseum.

    Hint: simply stating something in an derogative tone does not make the statment deep, meaningful, intelligent or correct.

    I mean gee, who wants to stay home during the coldest month of the year... uh well, my guess is almost everyone!
  141. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage - because he didn't go into enough (or any) detail about his own platform. Which is a bizarre decision because his official platform (at least the one on his website) was pretty good.
  142. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Cryrus: First apologies for the multiple posts, I can't seem to get the bloody 'enter' key to work.

    They call Tory's campaign negative mainly starting from the debate. All he did was blast Dalton for being a liar bla bla bla, BUT he did NOT discuss how he would do things differently. You can't just go criticize your opponent 24/7 and not talk about what you would do if you were in power.

    Eventually Dalton told Tory that I can't believe you have such a negative view of our province, a lot of things have improved and you just focus on things that didn't happen.

    Seriously, if I hear one more thing about autistic children....Tory kept bringing up single testimonials throughout the debate and ignoring the big picture. As I said earlier, if you get free groceries, but pay $1 or even $10 for an apple, the net result is that you're better off. Tory was just too negative and he kept his focus on the apple...

    At least that's my take on it, and given he didn't even win HIS seat, it seems like I'm not alone on this one.
  143. Cameron Reid from Canada writes: Na na na na na na na na, waaaaa-hey-hey GOODBYE!

    You won't be missed.
  144. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Cyrus you are blaming McG for losing high paying jobs, yet you take note that we can't compete with China where wages are a couple of bucks a week. Then you complain that unions are keeping wages too high. You're all over the board with this. We're losing good paying jobs yet we shouldn't have unions urging such. We cannot compete with below poverty level wages and there's no way to deny it. How is this a governments fault? Back to the Nanticoke issue. You still fail to respond to the fact that scrubbers would only be in use for a couple of years at most, given that we're geared for nukes and other sources. This would cost a billion or so by completion. You at the same time are complaining that your property taxes are too high, yet you promote seeing a billion or more go into something that would be under utilized and in fact a waste of money considering those dollars could go into other long term needs. I'm getting the sense that you're in more of an anti-Liberal rant than having an objective view of fiscal management. You're suggesting the Libs will drive us deep in the hole and this would be one way of doing so. Hydro is not the sole source of our air quality ailments. Could it also be that you're disappointed that because Tory didn't make it, your company no longer stands to recieve a huge contract where you say would bolster your firms jobs and it's pockets?
  145. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Philosopher Queen from The world's worst capital city, Canada writes:
    I mean gee, who wants to stay home during the coldest month of the year... uh well, my guess is almost everyone!
    _________________________________________
    You old-fashioned, head in the sand silly one, I'll tell you who:

    The people who p/t jobs and need hours.
    *Independent contractors who need to do as many jobs as they can/month
    New immigrants who are working several jobs to make ends meet.

    Get out of your little crappy socialist nest and join the real world, clown-boy. Or do you simply look down at the working class?
  146. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cluck the mighty chicken: More drive by smears Affleck? Wow, your mom must think you're cool.

    As usual you manage to ride roughshod over the point all in the name of playing your little word games. But then maybe I'm too harsh and you really are that brain dead. Here's some paraphrasing for you that might hurt your brain less:

    'To get back the manufacturing jobs we've lost to second tier economies, we'd have to pay second tier rates.'
  147. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: Cyrus you are blaming McG for losing high paying jobs, yet you take note that we can't compete with China where wages are a couple of bucks a week
    _____________________________________

    Are you nuts? China has an UPPER CLASS much larger than the population of Canada.

    And they are getting richer. It's not all peasant factories. Get a visa, get a ticket, go take a look and WAKE UP to reality.
  148. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada wrote: 'To get back the manufacturing jobs we've lost to second tier economies, we'd have to pay second tier rates.'

    ------

    Agreed, like I said earlier, the future is movings towards a knowledge based economy, so either you get on board or get left behind (unfortunately).
  149. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Yes yes we know Cluck, everyone should work 24/7 and never consider things like spending money on culture.

    Oh dear oh dear, won't somebody please think of the contractors?

    Still sifting the facts to support your lame positions eh Affleck?

    Cough...hack...hack...
  150. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Smooth Fan from Toronto: Damn right SF, damn right.

    Tell that to Cluck the Mighty Chicken, he's busy running for the union leadership.
  151. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: Hi Don, I'm not being a sore loser. While I prefer that we have MMP, I'm not disgruntled with 'the people's choice'. I do know that I had to have a few people explain it to me in terms that were not garbled/political jargon. Did you see the Referendum Brochure? Just looking at it made me sleepy. Reading it was painful. From a PR perspective, they did nothing to really give people enough detail/time to make an informed choice. How hard would it have been to do a public education campaign that did a good job of explaining the options? They just didn't want to do it. From what I have heard, there was also opposition from the Anti-MMP contingent to having such a public education campaign. Imagine that. Squabbling at its worst and who suffers? The public. Democracy. Certainly not the politicians though...they're not going to vouch for a system that could conceivably dilute their power and give people a shot at proportional, representative democracy. I would be happy with any system that better reflects what people want and that consistently delivers a political environment that has integrity, respect and accountability. Oh, and passion for what we have and could have. Vision. Charisma. Sparkle. There isn't enough of that in our political system, and we all suffer for that too. I hope that will change with this next mandate, but I'm not holding my breath...
  152. Smooth Fan from Toronto, Canada writes: Clark: Yes every country has an upper class, however, China also has a devastating level of poverty and guess who works in the factories? I work with a number of Chinese immigrants and they all say the same thing. The rich are the ones who OWN the companies/factories, while the poor work in them.

    Does this sound familiar? It's called CAPITALISM. No need for a ticket, just TALK to anyone who is FROM China, they will tell you how it is.
  153. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cluck the mighty Chicken says: 'The Chinese are coming the Chinese are coming!'
  154. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Debating with Philopshity king is like going back in time and explaining NASA to someone in the Middle Ages wearing a cloak and praying to God.

    I think factories in Korea and Japan are doing quite fine. And the manufacturing they put in China, LOS (Thailand for you, Johny Canuck) and in North America are RUN by their managers. China is ensuring that large and tech factories pay great benefits and are localised.

    Workers in Walmart in China have more rights than Canadian walmart workers.
  155. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Well now, that's the factory whistle, gotta go. All us upper class Chinese got to get over to the noodle house before all the sequin gold cushions are taken.
  156. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cluck the mighty Chicken says: 'The Chinese are coming the Chinese are coming!'
    __________

    Such a typical Hoser way of seeing things. Expand your thinking.

    Yes, the Chinese are coming. And it's a great thing!!
  157. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Dwayne Allen,
    Re. the mfg jobs: It's true that our unions are out of control & I blame them for pricing themselves right out of the market. But I also blame Dalton for doing nothing. As I mentioned, the Tory plan addressed measures to combat mfg job losses...

    Those Nanticoke scrubbers and that plant will be in situ far longer than 'a couple of years at most'. I don't see that plant shutting down within ten years. Do you know how long it takes to build a new nuclear plant? We manufacture power generation components & I can tell you it will be a long climb. Hell, we've been refitting Pickering for the better part of ten years...

    Let's face it, we're not going to see eye-to-eye politically as you're a liberal & I'm miffed at being lied to and abused
  158. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cluck, you're an idiot. I travel to China four times a year. Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance.

    Later frat boy.
  159. Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner, Canada writes: Smooth Fan from Toronto, it's not CAPITALISM. It's MARXO-FASCISM.
  160. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Cluck, you're an idiot. I travel to China four times a year. Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance.

    Later frat boy.
    __________________
    Okay, queen, where do you go? What do you do? Let's settle this right now.
  161. Michael Cera from London, Canada writes: Courage = extending funding to all faith-based schools (e.g. PC)

    Courage = removing funding from all faith-based schools, including Catholic Schools (e.g. Green Party)

    Cowardice = painting multi-faith funding as divisive and destructive to Ontario, and yet supporting inclusion of Catholic schools (e.g. Liberal Party).

    What I find most disturbing: people are willing to slap the word 'Equal' on any campain button these days to paint opponents of a particular point of view as intolerant. However, I find it fairly disturbing how the Liberal Party of Canada (both federal and provincial) felt it easier to redefine marriage (based on thousands of years of common law and tradition) than to open the consitutional debate around the public funding of Catholic schools (or so their reasoning goes for supporting the status quo).

    The public and the media always talk about how they wish politicians were more transparent and honest, but as the latest election results show, we live in a country where honesty and integrity are punished. Congratulations Ontario: you've once again rewarded double-talk and ambiguity over action and clarity.
  162. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Mcquinty would never dare bring up the issue of public funding for Catholic schools.

    1. He's lose Catholic votes.
    2. He was using the teacher's union as a political weapon.
    3. If he lost, his wife would need a job.
  163. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Manufacturing Jobs. There are still plenty of manufacturing jobs around, but with the advent of the Toyota's, Honda's, Hyundai's etc etc, most of these companies WILL NOT deal with MANUFACTURERS that are UNIONIZED. Therefore, those plants are closing. There are plants with the same ownership, some unionized, some not, the unionized shops are closed up tight and the non union ones are running full pin. Tell ya something? The Toyota's, Honda's etc etc want a continuous supply, not an interupted one. So folks who are out of work, if you can, get a non union job. I have one, it pays very well thank you, I have great benefits and no deduction every payday paying some guy like Hargrove for doing nothing. And I can speak for myself, I need no steward.
  164. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Nice post, Proud Canadian.
    Imagine speaking for yourself instead of part of the union collective. May they get what they deserve...
  165. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Watcher 1983 from Just around the corner: No. It's just more complicated. You can liken the Caledonia situation to a random gang confrontation, but it is not that simple. It's not that simple at all. You've clearly chosen your side, but no dumbed down take on it is going to make it any less complicated, in fact, it will just increase the complications. And McGuinty's done plenty, offered to buy the land back in question, assigned a specialized task force, diplomatic gestures you're clearly not familiar with, just nothing's worked yet.

    And part of the reason nothing has worked yet is because NEITHER side will budge their position, and whether you like it or not, BOTH sides have a good argument. You just don't like it. Doesn't change reality.
  166. The Bull from Canada writes: I'm still suspicious of the whole 'John Tory' thing...

    he's a 'red' tory, who represents the party's best shot at winning Toronto, and then he goes ahead and hands the election to Dalton on a silver platter - another undeserved majority.

    i'm not one for conspiracy theories, but could he be a double agent?

    and his name is 'Tory'? just so we are certain he's 'conservative'?

    the Russians used to plant someone for decades before they went to work.

    ingenious if that's what the Liberals did. I'm impressed.
  167. Derek Mullen from Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: With the loss of MMP there is little hope for Ontario.

    IF mmp were used and parties drew up lists of potential candidates to be elected using the list system, then it stands to reason that John Tory would be, being a party leader going into and election without a seat, top of the list. Therefore Ontario would reject John Tory and his policies, Don Valley West would reject Tory and his policies but the list would put him in parliament and whats more the individual voter would not be able to remove him. (or for that matter anyone elected on a party drawn up list) How exactly is that democracy?
  168. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: What has his taskforce accomplished other than the consumption of yet more tax dollars?
    McGuinty has done nothing but throw millions of dollars in OPP overtime at the Caledonia standoff.
    The link below outlines how the natives swarmed an elderly couple's car & then attacked two CHTV cameramen who were afterwards interviewing the couple. Dalton's handling of Caledonia has been a debacle, he's been utterly inept...

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/07/24/ottawa-opp-investigate.html
  169. Sam Springer from Missisauga, Canada writes: Great post Proud Canadian

    The harsh reality is that another 4 years of McShifty will cost the average non public sector worker more money.

    Money for Teachers, Government workers, TTC, Toronto public sector unions, in other words the Liberal power base.

    HANG ON TO YOUR WALLETS FOLKS
  170. Rob R from Mississauga, Canada writes: Michael Cera from London, Canada writes: Courage = extending funding to all faith-based schools (e.g. PC) ANSWER: IDIOTIC COMMENT - TORY'S HAREBRAINED IDEA TO DO THIS LOST HIM THE ELECTION BIGTIME!!! Courage = removing funding from all faith-based schools, including Catholic Schools (e.g. Green Party) ANSWER: IF ANYONE HAD BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO BRING UP THIS EVEN MORE IDIOTIC IDEA THEY WOULD HAVE LOST SO BIG IT WOULD HAVE MADE TORY'S DISASTER PALE BY COMPARISON!!!! Cowardice = painting multi-faith funding as divisive and destructive to Ontario, and yet supporting inclusion of Catholic schools (e.g. Liberal Party). ANSWER: MORE NONSENSE. CATHOLIC FUNDING IS NOW ENSHRINED CONSTITUTIONALLY, LIKE IT OR NOT!!! IN ADDITION, THE CURRENT PUBLIC SYSTEM IS ONE OF INCLUSION. KIDS FROM ALL RACES AND RELIGIONS STUDY TOGETHER AND THrOUGH THIS THEY LEARN ABOUT ONE AND OTHER AND IT THEREFORE PROMOTES UNDERSTANDING AND TOLERANCE. FUNDING FAITH BASED SCHOOLS WOULD UTLIMATELY LEAD TO MAJOR SEGREGATION BY PULLING KIDS FROM SPECIFIC RELIGIONS OUT OF THE PUBLIC SYSTEM AND THIS WOULD LEAD TO NARROW FOCUSED RELIGIOUS EDUCATION WHICH COULD LEAD TO INTOLERENCE AND HATRED - JUST CHECK OUT CERTAIN MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES FOR THIS - ESPECIALLY THAT NUMBSKULL IN IRAN!!! SO, INSUMMARY, YOU COMMENTS ARE WAY OFF THE MARK AND ARE CON-DRIVEN BAD LOSER NONSENSE. THIS TYPE OF ISSUE ISSUE COST FRANK MILLER THE ELECTION AFTER DAVIS'S SEPERATE FUNDING MISTAKE AND TORY WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT SMART ENOUGH TO LEARN FROM HISTORY, SO AS THE SAYING GOES 'THOSE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT' RESULT: POLITICAL OBLIVION FOR TORY AND YEARS OF DAMAGE FOR THE PCS - SOME TYPE OF COURAGE - I CALL IT STUPIDITY!!!!
  171. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Derek Mullen, the reason MMP is democratic is because it translates everyone's votes into MPP's. For example, about 12% of the votes yesterday went to the Green party yet they don't have a single seat! So those votes were nothing but vapor, they got the voters zero representation. What could be less democratic than that?
    Under MMP Green Party would have had 12% of seats in legislature today & rightly so
  172. Greg Calgary from Canada writes: Neo the Con from Calgary, Canada writes: Harper should make full use of Tory in the next federal election.

    No need he's already got Dion
  173. James S from Canada writes: It is fun to speculate what might have been if Mr. Tory did not make this collossal political mistake. Unfortunately the same issue will continue to haunt him if he stays on. Unless he handles it right, it may well become his hidden agenda in future campaigns.

    The negative campaign also failed as did advice from nasty snot nosed advisors such as the party president.

    Turf your political advisors, then get and listen to better ones, and who knows, this underdog might become a good premier in 4 years.
  174. Vern McPherson from writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Good points, Philosopher King, but Dalton's at the helm, not the toothfairy. I'm not specifically blaming him for the losses of those jobs, I'm just wondering when he will do something about it. The Tories outlined plans to combat those losses...Dalton, per usual, has done nothing.

    --------------------------------------------
    Dalton has done nothing ? Really ? What's this ?

    FRom : http://www.ontariocanada.com/ontcan/page.do?page=6025

    ' The oil sands initiative is part of the Ontario government's overall plan for jobs and prosperity that includes:
    The Ontario Automotive Investment Strategy (OAIS) that leveraged more than $7 billion in automotive investments and anchored thousands of high-value jobs
    The Advanced Manufacturing Investment Strategy, a $500 million repayable loan program to encourage companies to invest in leading-edge technologies and processes
    Aggressive action to boost international trade and investment, including business missions to China and India/Pakistan and expanding Ontario's roster of international marketing centres to 10
    Investments in infrastructure, postsecondary education, stable energy supply, research and innovation and key economic sectors. '

    Just how muvh of a mis-informed moron are you ?
  175. s c from Canada writes:
    I would hope that Tory would stay on. He does have some good ideas - just not very good at explaining them. and no - I don't include funding religious schools among the good ideas.

    There is an excellent globe editorial posted on the globe's election webpage called 'Weighing McGuinty and Tory'. It may may have been the most unbiased article written all election.
  176. Vern McPherson from writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Derek Mullen, the reason MMP is democratic is because it translates everyone's votes into MPP's. For example, about 12% of the votes yesterday went to the Green party yet they don't have a single seat! So those votes were nothing but vapor, they got the voters zero representation. What could be less democratic than that?
    Under MMP Green Party would have had 12% of seats in legislature today & rightly so

    ---------------------------------------
    The geens got slightly more than 8 % yesterday. WOW you are misinformed aren't you ?? On the other hand what's a 50 % error ??
  177. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: vern the opinionated twit mcpherson two-finger-typed:

    'how muvh of a mis-informed moron are you'?

    Vern, you don't need to hyphenate 'misinformed' you semi-literate idiot.
    My firm has been to the oil sands as part of Ontario's bold 'investment strategy' and have yet to glean any offers of value. They're having a good laugh over there actually as we Ontarians eagerly pile over top of each other at their door thinking we're going to get a gravy slice of the oil revenue.

    Paste all the liberal chest thumping propaganda here that you want, it changes nothing: Dalton's an inept crook & you've got your head up his ar$e
  178. B B from Ottawa, Canada writes: '...but will not remain if the party wants to oust him'

    Hilarious. What is the alternative? How will he stay if the party does oust him.
  179. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: vern the idiot mcpherson continues to spout:

    'greens got slightly more than 8% yesterday'

    'A survey conducted by the Strategic Counsel for The Globe and Mail and CTV this week showed the Greens had made significant gains outside of Toronto, with 11 per cent support across the province as they headed into yesterday's election. In Southwestern Ontario alone, that number was closer to 13 per cent.'

    Guess what Vern, I wasn't making my numbers up? And the point was about MMP being the more democratic choice, which obviously eluded you.

    theglobeandmail.com
  180. boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: If the supreme court would rule that not funding faith schools is against the
    charter of rights,would Dalton use the no withstanding clause.Just asking
    something Mr.Tory should have asked him in the debate.
  181. Vern McPherson from writes: Curus for all your bull$hi! you make 50 % mistake in accuracy in my outfit you can take your big dumb mouth and your fat a$$ out the door.

    So McGuinnty did do something and you were there ? You said he did nothing. You lied.

    We have 7 billion in new auto investment in Ontario because we competed for it with many other locales. Now shut the F.. up !
  182. Vern McPherson from writes: boz dobbs from toronto, Canada writes: If the supreme court would rule that not funding faith schools is against the
    charter of rights,would Dalton use the no withstanding clause.Just asking
    something Mr.Tory should have asked him in the debate.

    -----------------------------------------------
    We may find out bozz soon. The Jewish sector is involved in a suit as I understand it and they definitely will take it to the SC if they haven't already. I am not sure where it stands.
  183. Mike Parker from Canada writes: John Tory should do the right thing for his party and resign.
  184. Chris Haines from Vancouver, writes: The sad thing about all this is that Tory was right in that the education system needs to be fixed. It is not right to fund one faith and not another. The most fair thing to do would be to drop the public funding from the Cathoic School board. Of course this is politics, so emotions trump reason and no one wants to face the backlash of Catholic parents who would lose their schools. Consitutionally guaranteed or not, public Catholic schools fly in the face of the seperation of church and state that we claim to have. When I went to public school we recited the lord's prayer and read a bible passage each morning. That doesn't happen anymore and for good reason.

    But while the hypocracy of the public Catholic school system should end, it won't. And John Tory lost an election because he had the guts to try to address it. To bad for him that he didn't have the sense to leave it alone.
  185. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: vern the hopeless moron mcpherson continues to spout:

    'so McGuinnty did do something and you were there ?'

    Yes, we were there and can attest that he hasn't done much except to provide you with much butt to kiss and to really entertain the Albertans, as your illiterate whining entertains me on this blog.
  186. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: vern mcpherson writes: 'I am not sure where it stands.'

    vern, one thing is for sure; you're an idiot
  187. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: John....time to pack it in my man. You should have done it last night. Your loss in your own riding was a tell-tale sign. To lose to a recidivist liar is tragic.

    I voted green last night, first time ever. I want to vote PC, but there is no PC party in Ontario right now. I like Elizabeth Witmer and hope she runs for leader when John gets knifed.

    Move on Tory...you had your chance and blew it!
  188. R D from Canada writes: Rob R - no need to yell.
    By the way, the public school system is all about inclusion - except if you are Catholic. Funny how you rant about how stupid this proposal was while at the same time supporting it for Catholics.
    Too bad politicans do not have the courage to address this. The voucher system (you get a voucher to attend school of your choice, could be based on religion, charter, athletic schools whatever) would bt the fairest but no politician will dare touch this again due to the 'enlightened' Ontario voteres.
  189. garry heaps from he likes wearing makeup... no really, Canada writes: it seems to me that if the ontario voters wanted to deep six dull tone he would be history. lot's of average joe's and jane's voted yesterday. the fact that tory imploded suggests that he didn't convince anyone that he had a better vision of ontario, therefore based on the numbers he has to leave his post. he just wasn't the 'right' guy to get the job done.
  190. Bruce Spence from writes: It's the Ontario electorate who is the Big loser here !
    They'll pay for 4 more years of closet Socialist policy.
    They've got the Big Spending, Big Taxing government that they deserve.
    If you liked the Peterson & Rae years, you're gonna love these next 4 McGuinty years of Growing Debt !
  191. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: Someone should be held accountable-who were mis advisers, handlers? How did they allow him to pander to the 'faith-crew'? He had no platform on social issues nothing....he should do the honourable thing and go.
  192. Vern McPherson from writes: All you sour grapes COns are feeling a little low today - I know. But I have some good news for you all. ..............

    Tonite at 8 PM on CBC you can watch The Nature of Things with David Suzuki.

    Cyrus mcGoofy don't get too doomy and gloomy. Next life you might smarten up and learn to present fact instead of bull$hi! !!. Then you won't get picked on and you won't look so stupid and have to call people names because you don't know your a$$ from a pi##hole in a snowbank but can recognize a COns a$$ right away. .

    I hope you are not a sales type. What d'ya sell in Albertha ?
  193. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Bruce Spence, you hit the nail right on the head.
    Care to wager how many tens of billions Dalton further drives up the deficit in 4 years' time?

    vern mcpherson, you are the only one here who looks stupid. And you do indeed look very stupid. Think you'll ever post a comment without grammar & spelling errors & typos? And as for name calling, please review your posts. You started that
  194. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Is John Tory the non-physical more benign version of a Canadian suicide bomber?
  195. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Vern Mc Nut
    Tonite at 8 PM on Pravda TV you can watch I've Gone Right Nutty with 5-kids and a Lexus Suzuki.
  196. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Chris Haines 'But while the hypocracy of the public Catholic school system should end, it won't. '

    It's worse than that Chris. Dalton will allow some other denominational schools to open becasue it will be the only way to keep his family's pope-based schools open. The same thing he used to bring out the bigotry for himself - he himself will do soon. He will never do anything about real school choice, he's up the unions butt. You can bank on it.
  197. Michael Cera from London, Canada writes: Rob R: Please review your statements. By any chance, are you a product of this new enlightened, inclusive education system?

    'THE CURRENT PUBLIC SYSTEM IS ONE OF INCLUSION. KIDS FROM ALL RACES AND RELIGIONS STUDY TOGETHER AND THrOUGH THIS THEY LEARN ABOUT ONE AND OTHER AND IT THEREFORE PROMOTES UNDERSTANDING AND TOLERANCE.'

    'IDIOTIC COMMENT... HAREBRAINED IDEA... IF ANYONE HAD BEEN STUPID ENOUGH... EVEN MORE IDIOTIC IDEA... MORE NONSENSE... JUST CHECK OUT CERTAIN MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES... ESPECIALLY THAT NUMBSKULL IN IRAN!!! ...CON-DRIVEN BAD LOSER NONSENSE... I CALL IT STUPIDITY!!!!'

    Discrimination remains discrimination, whether it is 'constitutionally-enshrined' or not (ask anyone who has invoked the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in the last few decades). And by the way, whether we 'like it or not' should be a debatable point in a democratic society, shouldn't it? Or are people only stupid and idiotic if they happen to disagree with you?

    Anyway, this is the last I'll say on the matter. Honest to God, I hope you are a troll, just fishing for a reaction. Otherwise, your hypocrisy is frightening at so many different levels, I don't even know where to begin...
  198. Michael Enright from Toronto, Canada writes: Watch out Ontario, if you believe the editorial in today's Toronto Star (which many liberals believe is the holy truth), the liberals have carte blanche now to tackle all the left-wingers wet dreams.

    And for all you proponents of the one-school system, you'll like to know that the liberals already started backtracking on the afternoon political shows (Mike Duffy Live, CBC Politics, CPAC). They basically rejected the press release from the One School System Network calling for an end to funding faith-based schools and hinted that they're going to have to come to some other solution to address it (which one of the liberals had the audacity to call a problem).

    Press Release
    http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=779533
  199. David Simon from Canada writes: 1/ Finally I can sound (almost) like a lefty: TORY OUT!

    2/ How many elections can John Tory Stanfield lose before he realises this just isn't his game?

    3/ Conservatives win when they credibly campaign on slashing taxes. Not reducing, modifying, adjusting, etc. Tory should have promised to keep McGuinty's promise and eliminate, (that's spelled e-l-i-m-i-n-a-t-e) the 'health' tax.
  200. westcoastgroovin victoria from Canada writes: 'Tory won't stay if party doesn't want him'...no kidding?
  201. Rob R from Mississauga, Canada writes: Michael Cera from London, Canada writes: ....Discrimination remains discrimination, whether it is 'constitutionally-enshrined'. *Actually it is not discrimination - you might see it that way but I see it as a matter of choice! There is nothing constitutionally that requires the Government of Ontario to offer public school funding to any other religion other than the two founding religions of Canada - Period! Other religions decided to segregate themselves from the public system by opening their own private, unlicensed schools - they had the option to have their kids well educated in a good public school system - they decided not to and went off of their own to form private schools - this was their decision and therefore their choice! No one forced them to do so, they had a better option, and therefore there is no descrimination! The outcry about public funding has only happened in the last few years and is caused by certain religions pushing for it, as is their right and, by the same token, the Ontario Government also has the right to refuse as it is the guardian of the public school system and has the obligation to protect it! Their kids are more than welcome in the public system - if they choose not to accept that it then again that is their choice and not descrimination. Our society is supposed to be a multicultural one and this is also true of the public system which has done a superb job of integrating children from different cultures to foster understanding and tolerance. Segregating kids does the opposite by forming religious cliques and would also be seen as a 'death knell' for multiculturalism - what's the point if some people are demanding segregation! This is purely and simple a matter of choice - you want a different car you pay for it, you don't like where you live you move on and pay for it, you want to segregate you kids from an already excellent public system you pay for it and stop whinging - it's your choice - PERIOD!!!*
  202. Steven Koning from Bloomfield, ON, Canada writes: McGuinty reneged on good promises, Tory reneged on a bad promise. That explains the results. Time to go, John.
  203. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: I wonder how much of a raise he is going to give himself this time.
  204. suz myers from Canada writes: was tory really a tory or was he just a sheep in disquise to tpple the real tories ooops
  205. suz myers from Canada writes: was tory really a tory or was he just a sheep in disquise to tpple the real tories ooops
  206. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Verne is home watching the CBC. Nice to see the national broadcaster has the 'seniors' market all to themselves.
  207. Steve Turner from Canada writes: Personally, I think most of the pro-Con posters are entirely wrong in their analysis. This election wasn't a 'one-issue' election, but a reality check on the fact that the majority of Ontarians simply don't trust Conservatives and conservatism.

    Ontarians are sick to death being told by a handful of bigots that they are dumb for not voting Conservative, Ontarians fear the idea of voting for a party with a proven track record of making decisions that kill their own people ala Ipperwash and Walkerton, but above all, Ontario continues to boom, the Health tax was certainly not a 'hit to the pocket' that many would have you believe, and as an old wise person once said -if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    If anything, were I to lower my IQ and begin disliking non-Caucasians like many Conservative supporters, I'd be quaking in my boots about how this election will foreshadow what will happen to the Cons in the province at the Federal level. I'd be begging Mr. Harper to delay an election for as long as possible.

    however, as with Con leaders, I'm sure Harper will only listen to the tight cabal surrounding him instead of the actual people they purport to represent.
  208. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: I was at the Bureau of Nothingness in Ottawa today and met the young lad known as 'philospher king' tonight. I had a beer, he a nice lemonade spiked with vinegar. He said that Liberals knew that Tory was a weak politician from day 1 and said that they saw the opening on education and just kept at it...like a UFC fighter...all sweaty.
  209. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Turner, you are wrong.

    I've spoken with lots of Liberal insiders and the reality is the election was going to be about 'BROKEN PROMISES' but then Mcshifty found he could hide behind 'PUBLIC EDUCATION'....it's that simple.
  210. Steve Turner from Canada writes: Mighty, none of what you say proves me wrong. While you may talk to 'Liberal insiders', I prefer to listen to my friends, neigbours and folks I meet in this province. Ironically, I've just wound up a month-long tour of the province on business, and the subject of intolerance came up time and again. Harris' name (whether someone pining for the 'harris years' or someone fearing a return to the aforementioned years) came up time and again. The impact Harris had still casts a long shadow, and single issues like the faith-based funding (or dinosaur riding as one person eloquently said in Kenora a couple of weeks back) simply harken back to the innate intolerance associated with Conservatism.

    On the other hand, you have to admit that a handful of Cons here are simply looking for excuses instead of realizing that they are out of step with the 21st century.
  211. eddie fitzgerald from Canada writes: 'The Bull from Canada writes: I'm still suspicious of the whole 'John Tory' thing...

    he's a 'red' tory, who represents the party's best shot at winning Toronto, and then he goes ahead and hands the election to Dalton on a silver platter - another undeserved majority.

    i'm not one for conspiracy theories, but could he be a double agent?

    and his name is 'Tory'? just so we are certain he's 'conservative'?

    the Russians used to plant someone for decades before they went to work.

    ingenious if that's what the Liberals did. I'm impressed. '

    .............................................................................................

    That's the funniest post here today!!! LOL

    And Just Saying's observation is the most interesting.

    Sorry whiners. The election is over. Ontario has decided. Whether you like it or not.

    You now have to wait for Harper's majority. Just be careful you don't chew your nails down to stubs!! LOL
  212. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Mr. Turner...unlike trolls like old verne and philslopy king you have written a fair post.

    You are right...the Ontario electorate was worried about another 'Harris'....and the public funding for religious schools SCARED normal people in the province.

    Mcshifty was smart. A 'broken promises' campaign by a pink tory became a 'radica tory trick' campaign in the eyes of the electorate.

    You are right.

    And now Frank Klees is going to run the tory party!

    Where the hell is the Globe on this...where are their journalists?
  213. Vern McPherson from writes: Steve Turner from Canada writes: ....................
    On the other hand, you have to admit that a handful of Cons here are simply looking for excuses instead of realizing that they are out of step with the 21st century.

    ------------------------------------------
    Precisely Steve. Why else would harper and his bunch back off the righty stance they've championed all these years. They certainly don't want to be identified with the type of ignorant trash that posts here, liars, bigots and poorly informed loud mouths etc. Imagine the party of the Alberta brick wall funding Via Rail 5 years ago. That was when they wanted to sell all the country's public assets and get rid of government altogether. harper himself is a liberterian far more than a Conservative according to his own words Well that was another lie.

    The Bush era is over and we are moving on. All the talk of majority will evaporate like the COns did last night when they take their record to the people next time.
  214. eddie fitzgerald from Canada writes: To all the Conservatives who feel that Ontario voters are morons and sheep:

    I hope your great leader Stephen Harper expresses the same thoughts to us. Since he is a man of integrity and courage.

    Then let's see how quickly he calls an election and gets his majority!
  215. Vern McPherson from writes: Cyrus the COns is one of the ignorant trash I referenced. 8 % means 13 % in his world. So a good lie is better than a fact anytime.

    He went on a trade mission, got drunk and partied, sold nothing and blames McGuinty for not doing his own job for him.

    Like a good COns cyrubby is full of chi!
  216. eddie fitzgerald from Canada writes: Ontario Provincial Election:

    Right of Centre Voting % - 30%; Left of Centre Voting % - 70%

    Federal Election

    Right of Centre Voting % - 36%; Left of Centre Voting % - 64%

    Ontario is reflective of Canadian thinking and in a short while this will manifest itself again when the Conservatives are returned to opposition the Federal level. The CPC is benefiting from split voting right now but not for long.

    The numbers don't lie irrespective of whatever venom or media conspiracy theory comes up from the right wing.
  217. Rob R from Mississauga, Canada writes: Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes:
    ''A survey conducted by the Strategic Counsel for The Globe and Mail and CTV this week showed the Greens had made significant gains outside of Toronto, with 11 per cent support across the province as they headed into yesterday's election. In Southwestern Ontario alone, that number was closer to 13 per cent.'

    ** I have no doubt that your numbers are correct! However, Mike Duffy, the old political warhorse on CTV, had an interesting take on this Green party upsurge. Duffy thinks this increase is a one-time gain. His opinion, shared by other pundits, is that the increase in Green votes was mainly due to angry Conservative voters who would not vote for the McGrunty or the N'Dippers and chose instead to "park" their votes with the Greens this time around! Considering your comments indicate that the major increases for the Green party were in areas outside of TO, where the Tories get most of their votes, I suspect that Mr. Duffy might be correct! Time will tell! **
  218. Cyrus Ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: vern mcpherson, as Clark has nicely summarized, you are a stupid old troll who can barely post semi-literate comments.

    My numbers are valid:

    ''A survey conducted by the Strategic Counsel for The Globe and Mail and CTV this week showed the Greens had made significant gains outside of Toronto, with 11 per cent support across the province as they headed into yesterday's election. In Southwestern Ontario alone, that number was closer to 13 per cent.'

    Old fool
  219. A Guy In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: John Tory is a good man; he's just a lousy politician. He may be a very principled man; but there is little room for principle in politics. His problem now is that he is still a PC, and the Conservatives are known for destroying their own. PCs across Ontario are just aching to make Tory pay when, in fact, they should be looking at themselves. It's a dying party with a shrinking hold on any clear position within the political spectrum, and is naturally evolving to its rightful place alongside the Family Values Party, or whatever it is hard-line Christian Harpercrits call their donosaur political parties these days.

    Oh, and Mike Duffy doesn't exactly have a great track record on his pontifical political predictions. I don't think his superficial observations on the texture of the increase in Green support are any more astute than most of what passes as in-depth analysis by television's talking heads. They're filling air time, nothing else.
  220. Steve Turner from Aurora, Canada writes: From T.O. guy: Mike Duffy doesn't exactly have a great track record on his pontifical political predictions. I don't think his superficial observations on the texture of the increase in Green support are any more astute than most of what passes as in-depth analysis by television's talking heads. They're filling air time, nothing else. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly why I believe that this election wasn't a "single-issue" campaign as many espouse. It is only the media and pundits going on about "faith-based" education and making claims about single issues, and many Cons are grasping at this straw instead of realizing that this province and this country are at the beginning of a wide-spread conservative backlash. In Ontario, people would rather pay a few pence more as long as they don't have a government that would kill them as a direct result of their misguided public policies. I will admit that not every Con is a card-carrying dinosaur rider, but the mere fact that type of group supports Conservativism is a perception that the party can do without. Until then, rural and urban Canadians will continue to vote in the manner that they do, and for every Con who decries a non-Conservative vote is merely alienating their party, and unfortunately providing proof to the rest of Canada that there is an inherent intolerance within Conservative ranks.

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