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A majority built on faith

BRIAN LAGHI AND KAREN HOWLETT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:04 AM EST 11/10/07

Tory loses in his own Toronto riding. Small parties make popular gains. Electoral reform soundly rejected ...Read the full article

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  1. AU GT from Long Beach, United States writes: Congratulations Toronto in re-electing McGuinty, you have discovered and claimed your very own Bill Clinton.....
  2. im mfad from Canada writes: So the support of 21 percent of eligible voters is enough for McGuinty to get a huge majority (42% x 50% turnout).
    Pathetic.
  3. Rachel F from Canada writes: Let me start out by saying for the record.. I did not vote Liberal... that said:

    AU GT ... call me crazy but I see a lot or red outside the GTA on this map...

    http://www3.elections.on.ca/internetapp/realtimehome.aspx?lang=en&channel_id={923146e7-4d81-42a8-99f0-e61f5ab50387}&lang=en

    so stop trying to shift the blame away from the other parties inability to convince voters that he was the man for the job.

    im mfad... you're right voter turnout was PATHETIC... but it hardly reflects on the McGuinty government since if he was that hated and they wanted him out that badly they would have come out in droves!
  4. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Poor turn out, wins majority in Ontario, Liberal lost in bi election in Quebec shakes Federal Liberals to work harder, Hugh turnout in Newfoundland leads to big major majority and Rodney MacDonlad in Nova Scotia sells the farm to PMSH......make your own conclusion but here I see Rodney going down the same as Mr. Tory sooner rather than latter. On the Federal sceen, one can never tell but all that I have mentioned are do to in part a fond dislike for Ottawa and 'THE BULLY ON THE HILL' my way or the highway is not an acceptable form of governence.

    Make no mistake PMSH has plans for a long time deployment in Afghanistan and in Canadains hearts they know that to be true.
  5. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, the Harper Gov't is Incompetent., Canada writes: im mfad from Canada writes: 'So the support of 21 percent of eligible voters is enough for McGuinty to get a huge majority (42% x 50% turnout). Pathetic. '

    I agree that the voter turnout was pathetic. That many people not voting is huge indicator of the state of Canadian politics. Not one leader worth taking 20 minutes out of your day to vote for a huge percentage of eligible voters. Lazy voters and lazy politicians.
  6. Bill M from Canada writes: A couple of years after I moved to Ontario, they voted in Bob Rae. I couldn't believe the voters of Ontario were that stupid and gullible. Well, last night they confirmed it. Hang on to your wallets. But to try and break even, start a pool as to which promise will be broken first. Put your money on the no new taxes, or the 9000 new nurses, or shutting down coal fired hydro plants.
  7. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: What a pathetic voter turnout. What can we make of this? A chance to rewrite the way politicians are elected! A visceral issue relating to how schooling is funded and less than or nearly 50% of people vote. I think we need to move to 'if you don't vote you are fined'!!!
  8. Ex Drone from Ottawa, Canada writes: It was important to send the message that Ontarians demand the separation of church and state. It is unfortunate that the election had to focus on that issue, but with the inanity of the Bush administration in the South and the noise from the handful of fundamentalist activists in the province, the principle had to be settled. Now, let's move on to the other issues.
  9. N N from Toronto, Canada writes: Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.
  10. Tony Soprano from The Bing, Canada writes: The big news here is not that Dalton won but that Ontario had to settle for another Dalton majority. How many times must I say this..

    There are no leaders left in Canada.
  11. Send in the Clowns and Dion too from Canada writes: Oh well as long as everyone votes for Canadian Idol!
    Pathetic turnout is right!
  12. A Guy from rural Ontario, Canada writes:

    Our first-past-the-post system has given us another illegitimate government.

    Voting should be mandatory and whoever governs must have 50% 1 of the seats.

    That would be called democracy.

  13. Starting Over from Canada writes: I agree with everyone on the voter turnout issue. Simply pathetic.

    If intelligent life is watching from somewhere 'Out there', the voters in Ontario have just proven that there is none here.

    We get what we deserve. Heaven help us.
  14. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: This is another prime example of the avalanche of destruction that can be caused when a bunch of flakes band together.

    Everyone focused on one unpopular idea, faith based education. I was not in favour of it either. However, unlike most of you I looked at the bigger picture.

    Oh well. I guess we are in for 4 more years of tax hikes, lies and unrestrained spending with no results.

    I am glad to see the Greens making some inroads on the popular vote. I like their fiscal and justice ideas. I am just concerned that their environmental ideas would drive business and jobs out of the province. If they mature their ideas about how to implement environmental policies without costing jobs they stand a good chance of getting my vote in future elections. I was on the fence this election. Conservative or Green. Ultimately I voted Conservative knowing full well they would not win.

    It is never fails to amaze me what bunch of lemmings Canadian voters tend to be.
  15. Bill M from Canada writes: N N from Toronto, Canada writes: Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.

    Dream on. When the best they can come up with is six more stat holidays, and hammer the poor by eliminating income taxes and skyrocketing the cost of energy, they'll be on the outside looking in for a long time.
  16. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Starting Over from Canada writes: 'If intelligent life is watching from somewhere 'Out there', the voters in Ontario have just proven that there is none here.'

    The most definitive proof that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is the fact that it has chosen to NOT contact us.
  17. just me anywhere from Canada writes: 'Congratulations Toronto in re-electing McGuinty, you have discovered and claimed your very own Bill Clinton.....' NAWWWWWWWWWW...Bill Clinton has class.
  18. IEM Canadian from Canada writes: Time Bend over Ontario. The Rae days are back!
  19. poida smith from Canada writes: payback for the Harris years continues! all of you clowns who voted Harris and his PC henchmen in can stew in it now for another 4 years! McGuinty's lies are nothing compared to the wholesale gutting of our education and healthcare system wrought by 'iron Mike' and his merry band of malcontents
  20. gord winters from Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: 'This is another prime example of the avalanche of destruction that can be caused when a bunch of flakes band together.'

    some of us think democracy is a pretty good thing. you might be more comfortable in another country. your choices are shrinking. democracy is spreading.

    with all its quirks and failings. its a pretty good system.

    i'm for democracy.

    anyone else?
  21. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: What happened to the turnout? According to CTV last night voters were 'flocking to the polls'.
  22. Barry from Ontario from Canada writes: The low voter turnout was indeed pathetic but don't assume it means people simply didn't bother to show up. While that's certainly true in some cases, how about those who were 'ready, able and willing' to vote but simply rejected what was on offer?
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot. It would be an easy way for voters to register their displeasure and I bet the numbers would be interesting.
  23. Bill M from Canada writes: poida smith from Canada writes: payback for the Harris years continues! all of you clowns who voted Harris and his PC henchmen in can stew in it now for another 4 years! McGuinty's lies are nothing compared to the wholesale gutting of our education and healthcare system wrought by 'iron Mike' and his merry band of malcontents

    And why didn't Dalton fix it? He was one of the loudest screamers when welfare rates were cut by Iron Mike (promise kept) but Dalton never put the rates back where they were. Why does dalton continue to claw back the federal Child Tax Benefit from the poorest children in Ontario? Are you real proud of that Poida?

    Why do millions of Ontarians still not have a family doctor? Why didn't he hire 8,000 new full time nurses? but not to worry. He made sure that religious zealots won't have their schools. As he said in his speech last night, all Ontarians are equal. He just forgot to add that Catholics are more equal than others. intolerant religious bigot is what he is.
  24. just me anywhere from Canada writes: 'if he was that hated and they wanted him out that badly they would have come out in droves!' There is another angle. The people KNOW politics and politicians are a scam and full of spin. The days of honesty and integrity have long been over. The entire election process is nothing more than a formality for BullS. Wealth controls all. One day the people will finally wisen up and take a stand by whatever means is necessary. I do hope I should live long enough to see that day. But whatever. Bottom line is Bush still controls Canada in his indirect route. Heil Bush!
  25. Send in the Clowns and Dion too from Canada writes: Our taxes will be raised, our health care will not improve, virtually none of the promises made by the king of breaking promises will be kept, and I predict the faith based school issue will arise again, only this time as a legal challenge based on human rights , discrimination sort of thing... ultimately to be accepted by or forced upon the McGuinty liars.

    Also Leafs dont win the Stanley Cup...all solid guaranteed predictions..bank on them!
  26. Raymond P from Canada writes: Apathetic voter turnout. In Czech their first election post communism had a phenomenal turnout. Since then voter participation has dropped as low as the Ontario turnout. Politics is a game for those with money to play. The apathy, in my opinion, comes from the disparity between the type of people running for office and the public at large. The average Canadian politician doesn't understand living pay cheque to paycheque. The average Canadian doesn't understand (or accept) the perks and salary of an elected official. If this disparity remains Canadian voters will continue to be apathetic.
  27. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: gord winters from Canada writes: 'some of us think democracy is a pretty good thing. you might be more comfortable in another country. your choices are shrinking. democracy is spreading.'

    If this were a democracy the Liberals would have won with 41% of the seats, not 67%.
  28. Tim Bee from Canada writes: 42% is pretty good.

    I think John Tory should concentrate now on doing what is fair regarding public funding of religious schools and work towards removing it for Catholic schools.
  29. A G from Canada writes: Ex Drone from Ottawa, Canada writes: It was important to send the message that Ontarians demand the separation of church and state. It is unfortunate that the election had to focus on that issue, but with the inanity of the Bush administration in the South and the noise from the handful of fundamentalist activists in the province, the principle had to be settled. Now, let's move on to the other issues.

    Ex-Drone - do you know that the Catholic school system is currently funded by the state? From your comment, you don't know that.
  30. Patriots in 2007 from Toronto, Canada writes: At rush hour yesterday, my local polling station was nearly empty, no lineup and it took me a whole 2 minutes to vote. The way that I look at the 50% turnout, it just means that MY vote is worth double.

    I only had four candidates in my riding - the 3 major parties plus the Greens. None of the big 3 parties represent my political views. The Freedom Party best represents my political views but they didn't have a candidate in my riding, I would also be open to the Libertarians but they also don't have a candidate in my riding. So, I only had one choice open to me as more of a protest vote. Go Greens! It's nice to see the Greens making some headway in the popular vote.

    I mainly only disagreed with the proportional representation referendum because they were proposing to increase the total number of MPPs. I am all for the concept, but we need LESS government, not MORE.
  31. Tim Bee from Canada writes: A Guy from rural Ontario, Canada writes:
    Our first-past-the-post system has given us another illegitimate government.
    Voting should be mandatory and whoever governs must have 50% 1 of the seats.

    That would be called democracy....

    Why would you want to force people who don't have any interest in voting, or a grasp of the issues, to vote?
  32. Jack Bauer from toronto, Canada writes: I am not stuck on one party and Tory did not deserve to win, but McGuinty should have been punished with a minority governement at the very least.
  33. Bill M from Canada writes: steve C from Canada writes: First, voting for a party, even the Lying Liberals is a privilege in a democracy. If you do not vote, you lose the fabric that governs our great country.

    You also lose your right to critisize the government. If you don't make an attempt to determine the outcaome of an election, you have no say on what the outcome reslults in.
  34. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes:

    The two provincial elections demonstrated a very strong anti-harper backlash. In NL the massive majority was given to Danny Williams' party largely on the basis of his highly justified anti-harper stance. and in ON the rather lackluster McGuinty led his party to a very strong majority also on the basis of anti-harper sentiments arising from the his muzzlement's attempts to significantly weaken ON both economically and politically.

    The QUE vote also showed how easily votes could be bought by the feds. so as to keep their toy boy leader in nominal charge.

    Overall, there were significant eletoral platform issues which influenced some of the voting. but added to the final decisons was the increasingly hostile backlash to the harper muzzlement style.

    CONGRATULATIONS WILLIAMS AN MCGUINTY FOR A JOB WELL DONE!
  35. Mike Charles from Canada writes: I think the best thing Tory can do is get rid of the Harper like hair! A visit the barber shop today will do wonders for his chances net time . And I should add there is nothing wrong with grey!!
  36. Canadian In Motown from United States writes: And once again, Ontario gets what Ontario deserves.
  37. john chuckman from Canada writes: Four more years of the smarmy one.

    The election itself tells us something is wrong with our system.

    Fifty-eight percent of voters rejected the ferret and he gets a majority?
  38. Tom Thumb from Guelph, Canada writes: WHAAAA, WHAAAAA

    A lot of sour grapes this morning. Grow up and get over it. The people have spoken.
  39. S Loughead from Mississauga, Canada writes: I am not that thrilled with Dalton McGuinty, however I could not bring myself to support the Conservatives with S Harper at the top. I do think John Tory would have been good, I just could not support his party.
    I hope that McGuinty does not let us down again. I am a little surprised at the majority he won.
  40. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: This whole election was pathetic. Not that I was rooting for him, but clearly the Liberals were vunerable in this election and Tory blew it. His strategy didn't make any sense. All he had to do was distance himself from Harris, paint himself a red Tory and he would have won. No, he had to run on the nutty funding for faith based school position.

    Those denouncing McGuinty victory seem to miss two facts. First, less that a 50% turnout is basically a statement of no confidence in ANY of the leaders in the province. The 'I don't like any of the parties' party won. Didn't surprise me. The polls were empty where I voted. Second, the opposition in Ontario made a point of NOT being the opposition. I saw no substantial debate on issues (energy, education, health) besides the faith based school option, and then, it was to keep the bizarre status quo where Catholic schools continue to get public money.
  41. S Young from Ottawa, Canada writes: It's funny to watch the supporters of the status quo (a.k.a. religious discrimination) heave a sigh of relief imagining that this election somehow vindicates publicly-supported religious indoctrination. No, 'faith-based' funding as an issue not over. It hasn't even begun. Ontario has never been given the democratic opportunity to eliminate ALL faith-based funding and keep public dollars in public education. It's absolutely clear that that's what the public wants. So why on earth will no politician offer it?

    Kudos to Frank de Jong and the Greens for doing the right thing--and tripling their popular vote in the process!

    The CBC journalist is half-way there when he says, 'The decision to
    give public money to Catholic schools sunk the Tories in 1985 and 22
    years later, a similar issue has relegated the Conservatives to the
    opposition benches for another four years.'

    Maybe in the next election Ontario will actually be given a choice on the matter of public funding for Roman Catholic schools.

    How about it, Dalton, Howard, John? How about we pay attention to the United Nations Human Rights Committee's 2 condemnations of Ontario's religious apartheid? How about we face up to the hypocrisy and instead of paying lip-service to 'fairness' we actually practice it? How about we stop punishing Ontarians who were born into the 'wrong' religion?

    It's 2007, for pete's sake, and the politicians (not the people, thank goodness) are still in 1859. Woman can now vote, and the province has more than just Protestants and Catholics.
  42. Gord Chauhan from Canada, Canada writes: Steve C, I guess by immigrant you mean practically everyone, that is what our country was built on...check your Grade 3 history The Scottish, British, Germans and American Loyalists were all immigrants!!

    Malcontent, Sore Bigot Losers like yourself make me sick. When are you leaving for Alberta? The sooner the better.

    As for the election, 10%, 20%, 50%... Those who didn't vote have no right to complain, those who did have to live with the results. That's our democracy. It's funny how supporters of the losers of this election use that argument( re: 42% x 50% turnout= 21% support) for Ontario but not on the federal scene where Steven Harper had even LOWER popular support numbers! Sophistry at its best!
  43. Michael Manning from Mississauga, Canada writes: And once again the 'if you didn't vote they way I did you must be stupid' crowd is out in full force.

    These people come in two flavours.

    On the hard right we have those that want no government and can't figure out why everyone won't agree with them.

    On the left we have the folks that have given up trying to convince the rest of us that they are right and have taken to championing any electoral scheme that gives them more power than their popularity warrants. Because they don't get to be in government the results of the election are 'bogus' and 'undemocratic'.

    There was only one substantive policy difference between the Liberals and the PC's and that's what people voted on. Don't blame the electorate, blame the political parties.
  44. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Barry from Ontario from Canada writes:
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot.

    What a fascinating and rather scary idea! That said, perhaps it is time to make it a law to vote.

    Many have given their lives for this precious 'right.' and privilege to live in a free democracy. Is mandating people to take 15 minutes out of their life so demanding? Wouldn't the result be more credible?

    Most elections only have a 50% turnout and a govt. usually wins with 40% of that. Hence the true backing of only 20%! That goes for all elections. Sad!

    While I understand that filling out census forms is important for govt.planning and social spending, how can it be against the law not to fill this out, but OK not to vote and express what a total population feels-even if it includes voting for 'none of the above.'

    I cannot see how this would be a negative. It would force people to get involved and the results of more involvement can only help the process and the country.

    Good luck Ontario.
  45. Cardinal Richelieu from TORONTO, Canada writes: not surprising when one remembers that John Tory ran the Kim Campbell campaingn to two seas. I only hope that the PC's become Conservatives again and stop running away from the proud legacy of Mike Harris. Please end this plague of UCC silver spoon Red Tories.
  46. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: While I like John Tory, none of the platforms sat well enough with me that I could vote for ANY of the parties and that is the first time in my voting life that I have felt that way. I voted, however I exercised my right to officially Decline, which gets recorded as such, which is essentially an official 'None of the above' vote. In the end, that is the only vote that sat well with me. I have been waiting for the next election since shortly after McGuinty took power so that I could vote him out. All I can do is at least take some comfort that I did not personally vote McGuinty IN. I'm convinced that the election would have turned out entirely different if Tory had not brought forward the issue of faith-based funding.
  47. Gord Chauhan from Canada, Canada writes: Tom Thumb: Agreed.
    Any cheese to go with the vinegar?

    I mean whine?
  48. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Mixed Member Porportional would have given McGuinty a minority and Hampton the balance of power.
  49. rob saunders from Belleville, Canada writes: I still don't have a family doctor and I still have to breath all that coal fired powerplant pollution. How many more years do you think it will be before they get shutdown, next election maybe. I agree with the voter apathy. 90 percent of the people where i work have no family doctor and their about about 2000 of us, so the numbers province wide must be terrible. I have no problem with the liberal platform, in fact, I AGREE WITH MOST OF IT, BUT PERFORMANCE DID NOT MATCH EXPETATIONS.
  50. Kevin Henning from Canada writes: Regarding the low voter turnout... not surprised. I found out Monday where I was supposed to vote only by going to the Elections Ontario website... and they directed me to the wrong poll. Never did get a registration card (neither did about half of the folks in the poll when I was there). Didn't last time around, either. It isn't like this is rocket science, or I just moved to a new house, I've been in my house for 16 years! On the other hand, I know one guy who got his registration 3 times (but then again, he lives in the city, and just moved into a new house about 5 weeks ago).

    I find myself wondering if the best thing that could have been done for the referendum was to prohibit 'party discipline', so the directly elected MPPs actually could vote to represent their constituents, that all directly elected MPPs be nominated and elected to run by their local riding associations (after all, if the leader wants to parachute in a 'star candidate', they can put them on the list), and adding a 'None of the above' option.
  51. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Barry from Ontario from Canada writes:
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot.

    What a fascinating and rather scary idea! That said, perhaps it is time to make it a law to vote.

    R. Carriere, as I said in my previous post, I registered my vote as a Decline. Under Section 53 of the Ontario Election Act, you can hand your ballot back to the returning officer stating that you decline, they mark 'Decline' on the ballot and it gets officially recorded as a Decline and is essentially a 'None of the above' vote. While my wee little Decline doesn't make much of a dent, it was the only thing that sat well with ME.
  52. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Morning, Michael Manning 'There was only one substantive policy difference between the Liberals and the PC's and that's what people voted on. '

    Not even. Dalton will do nothing that threatens the existence of his families religious schools and thus sooner or later he will fund schools of other religions because it will be the only way to keep the schools of the pope open in Ontario. Sad but true. This is a victory for fear, prejudice, wedge politics, lying and Warren Kinsella - a uber-loyal Chretien man.

    Those of you who deplore the tactics of the US right have seen more of them used for the first time in Canada this last few weeks than ever before. Sad.
  53. B T from Canada writes: Didn't see the victory speech but did Dalton actually say that 'Ontarians are saying we have not voted for the status quo'?? What the hell did they vote for then? This guy really is a bigger clown than he appears.

    Good luck Ontario... you're going to need it.
  54. Bill M from Canada writes: S Loughead from Mississauga, Canada writes: I am not that thrilled with Dalton McGuinty, however I could not bring myself to support the Conservatives with S Harper at the top. I do think John Tory would have been good, I just could not support his party.

    S - You're confusing federal and provincial parties. Look how Danny Williams, 'Conservative' premier of Newfoundland, has a hate on for Harper, and he just won a landslide victory. Otherwise, pretty pathetic that you would vote for a party with Stephane Dion at the top!
  55. D K from Canada writes: Enjoy the tax increase
  56. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Trish Taylor from Canada : Morning Trish. I did see your post and congratulate you. You did the right thing showing up.

    .
  57. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Trish 'they mark 'Decline' on the ballot and it gets officially recorded as a Decline and is essentially a 'None of the above' vote. While my wee little Decline doesn't make much of a dent, it was the only thing that sat well with ME.'

    And if the province offered a vote on an amendment where if enough of us Declined, the parties would all have to go back and find better candidates, I would vote for that. That would be an improvement over the current system.

    That, and some method of recalling politicians.
  58. E A from Canada writes: I think this board displays a problem as big or bigger than the voter turnout - the utter lack of knowledge about our system and politics in general. 'A guy from rural Ontario' is a case in point - first of all, 71 seats is 66%, which in my calculations is more than 50% of the seats. And perhaps if what was meant is that the party should have more than 50% of the votes, I fail to see how that would be possible in our 5 party system.
  59. Bill M from Canada writes: Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Mixed Member Porportional would have given McGuinty a minority and Hampton the balance of power.

    That would be an even scarier proposition. Loony left being controlled by the loonier left.
  60. Paul Jay from Canada writes: Electoral reform soundly rejected? That's a peculiar headline. 54% of us voted in favour of it. A better headline might be - Strong Majority Favour Electoral Reform, Fall Just Short of 60% Threshold.
  61. Mike........ Just Mike from Toronto, Canada writes: Congradulations to the people of Ontario. Although Dalton has his faults he is the best of the worst. People of Ontario still remember Harris and his confrontational style and opted for something else...Yes many will comment how we in Ontario are stupid or this and that but frankley they can shove it. Tory ran a disasterous campaign and didn't offer the voters anything. He was very good at pointing out Dalton's faults while simpley not telling us what HE would do. So looks good on him. Also I agree with the posters dissapointed with the low voter turn out. It truly is a sad comment on the people at large whom can't be bothered enough to go and take five minutes of their time to vote. It literally took me less then five minutes. Also the low voter turn out could be seen as traditional tory supporters staying home due to Johnny boys horrible campaigne etc.
  62. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: EA (and Bill M) ' perhaps if what was meant is that the party should have more than 50% of the votes, I fail to see how that would be possible in our 5 party system. '

    A run off election with the top 2 candidates would guarantee that the winner had a majority of the votes as would an 'ordered' preference ballot. (First choice, second choice, etc.) There are better ways to improve our system rather than the Party hack appointee list and fringe party encouraging MMP.
  63. Nestor C from Canada writes: What can you expect people! A low turnout...why on earth would John Q Public vote for any of these guys....no vision for the future on the next couple of years to get re-elected. I voted, as I always do, but there are lots of people who just don't feel politics makes a difference in their day to day lives...what we need is someone to inject some passion and some vision into our society.

    Last night, people choose 4 more years of navel gazing.....which is not necessarily a bad thing after 8 years of hack and slash.....but let's call a spade a spade, fact is, McGunity and his gang have done squat in the 4 yrs they have been in power.....it's nearly impossible to stick anything to him outside of 'breaking promises' because there isn't anything to stick him with....what did he do??? And before I get bashed, I'm 100% non-partisan, just calling it like I see it.

    At least people hated Harris for a reason...because they could find reason to hate him.....people are apathetic with McGunity...see the voter turnout for confirmation
  64. jose quail from Guelph, Canada writes: somebody get the vasoline.......theres gonna be some penetration
  65. Kanti Dinda from oakville, Canada writes: Welcome to 4 more years of incompetent government, congrats Ontario!
  66. Allan Martel from Canada writes: All sides of the political debate are teeing off here but most agree that the voter turnout was unacceptable in a functioning democracy.

    Some have suggested a 'None of the Above' selection on the ballot; others, mandatory voting with fines for non-compliance. There are probably other solutions that can be developed and put forward.

    With the referendum question defeated, we must find other ways to ensure that parties in power operate from real mandates. It is true that the Liberal majority is based upon 42% of the votes. Since only 50% (or less) of voters voted, the Liberal 'majority' has been endorsed by only 21% of eligible voters in Ontario.

    This is not unprecedented but it is also not anywhere near ideal. I would be interested to explore other ideas about how ro resolve this issue although I am simply one voter among many and not in any position to lead this issue.
  67. D K from Canada writes: Trish: you weren't the only one to decline. The party platforms were weak at best and the candidates in my riding were no where to be found. Having a vacant seat in my riding would be more of a voice at Queen's Park. Very lame! Now who wants to take bets on the number of weeks until the Liberals raise taxes?
  68. Steve Turner from Canada writes: A lot of sour grapes indeed. Clearly, this province fears Conservatism in all its shapes and forms. To add insult to injury, the next possible Con leader -Frank Klees- only won by 1300 votes in a riding he was expected to clean relatively unknown Liberal Christina Bisanz's clock. Tim 'cross-the-floor-to-the-Cons' Petersen was crushed by over 5000 votes by the Lib, and 'safe' Con ridings, like Lanark-Frontenac, were kept by a mere 500 votes, when the Cons used to win by the thousands over their opponents. In essence, I also think that the intolerance exhibited by Caucasian-Canadians at places like Caledonia, coupled with the type of intolerant rantings from similar groups about Immigrants or muslims, and how Tory was perceived to support these groups put the fear of God in non-Caucasian voters in urban areas, like Toronto and London and Ottawa, and that is yet another reason why the Libs -not my favorite by any means- got another majority. I think that the religious issue wasn't the sole factor as many here have been whining about, but rather the fact that the cons also seem to attract the the bigot vote, and that leads to the perception that conservatism is a thin veil for intolerance. For instance, it might have been a good idea for Tory to extend an invite to Six Nation's reps when he went to Caledonia. Instead, he only met with Caucasian people, some of whom have made outrageous claims about Natives in general, and who have contributed to hard feelings in the area. What was his message? 'get tough on Indians'...as if Natives were not worthy of being considered Ontarians as well. Well, I hope the Cons learn from this.
  69. Nobel Laureate from Canada writes:


    ... meh, it could have been worse ...
  70. Mtl Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: Another proof that Ontario is the worse province in the country.
  71. E A from Canada writes: Great idea, Guillaume, I'm sure the voter turnout would be even BETTER for that.
  72. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Nestor 'people are apathetic with McGunity...see the voter turnout for confirmation'

    I think it is more like the declines in federal turnout through the dark Chretien years. It became clear over those bleak years that it was literally impossible to remove him from power, so there was no reason for most people to vote, thus the declines to a all-time low voter turnout, and a significant rise once Mr Harper, and the libz removal was a realistic choice.

    In Ontario, once we all knew that hated Mcguinty was going to win there was no reason to further encourage the people who make our lives worse.
  73. Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes:

    Hold onto your wallets.

    .
  74. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Four more years of the LIEBERALS = four more years of religious BIGOTRY. 'Caledonia' McGuinty will make sure only his Catholic schools get public funding while all other denominations are denied this prevelige. I wonder if this 'Papal envoy' is going to get a very special blessing from his 'holy father' for continuing this outrage.
  75. Most politicians are crooks, don't you think? from Toronto, Canada writes: John Tory should run federally now and go for the three-peat. On second hand, maybe he'd have a better chance if he ran as a school-board trustee. Can't wait until we boot him out and get a real leader in our party.
  76. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: stunning results. Catholics are more important than other religions in the minds of people from Ontario?
  77. Vern McPherson from writes: Clearly the misfits are the noisiest of all Ontarians. But they are not in the majority are they ? And tanks got for that.

    One thing is for sure - the forum this morning makes it clear that if the results were reversed plenty of Ontario citizens would be ignored and shunned by the dictatorial policies of the far right. So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk.

    All the doom and gloomers are out in full force and they won't shut up even if they have good and reasonable and steady government instead of inventing a new planet.
  78. Don Adams from Canada writes: Trish. Quite a concept...I didn't know it was an option....probably most people don't. I've always advocated going out to vote, but just placing a large X right across the ballot as a protest vote if you didn't like anyone running.

    Rob, I agree voting should be mandatory....an OBLIGATION of citizenship....get off your fat a$$ and vote, even doing it the way Trish suggested. $ 5,000 fine for those that didn't vote. It's simply laziness and apathy and a system that allows people to be this way.

    I'm glad MMP failed, but I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of it. SIGS have this nasty habit of just niggling away at you, promoting their own special interest and ignoring other issues.

    I was surprised, my candidate did get in as expected, but not with the #'s of votes we expected....pretty close race.

    I hate to have to say it, but congrats to Dullton on his win. He didn't win by anything he did, but by what Tory did. Hopefully we'll get rid of this clown.... he just doesn't have it to be a leader, let alone Premier.
  79. Martha K from Canada writes: What's unbalanced here is that Mr. McGuinty got 42% of the popular vote to Mr. Tory's 35%. That is only a 12% spread and Mr. McGuinty should not be bold enough to think this a mandate to act and govern as if he had a majority government. Yes, techically he received 3X the seats, but not 3X the popular vote.

    What bothers me about this is how the Liberals rode the coat-tails of this faith-based school funding issue. They literally pounced on it and made it part of their campaign - in fact in commercials, that's all they talked about! Now I hear that there are cuts being made to certain Ontario school boards. Can anyone expound on that?

    I'd like to note that many individuals also are not aware that the 2.3 billion that Mr. McGuinty collected from us last year for the Health Tax - which was supposed to support the healthcare system and for which we were all asked to forgive and forget because this was a needed expense - well, the monies went into a 'general' pool. Does everyone know that? It was not all ear-marked for health! That was a well-kept secret too.

    This is the kind of government many of you voted in. Very little accountability to the people of Ontario. So sad.
  80. Dom L from Toronto, Canada writes: So does this mean we get a holiday in February????
  81. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: E A 'Great idea, Guillaume, I'm sure the voter turnout would be even BETTER for that.'

    I suspect it would actually.
    I try to do my own version of that personally by finding out what the polling in my riding shows and voting for the leading candidate if I like them, or the second candidate to put them over the top.

    Last federal election in my riding we had thousands of conservatives voting for the NDP to keep a liberal from winning. It worked! If there was a way to keep Dalton from power, the turnout would have increased, IMHO.
  82. Mike Dupuis from Canada writes: Congratulations Trish Taylor.

    Not having any issues of importance to me I at lease excercised my voting right last night. I simply wasted my vote. I didn't like what was on the election platform of any of the parties.

    Couldn't vote for NDP or the Green the party as I am a nuclear worker. Nothing like voting your career away.
  83. John Silverman from Canada writes: This is great news for Ontario!

    Alot of sour grapes here, just b/c not everyone agrees with you? Well blame Tory and Mike Harris and the rest of the lying conservative party. Ontario has been booming for years now, I see no reason to be so down on McGuinty, at least not when faced with the alternatives.

    BTW my polling station was packed with a huge line-up.
  84. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Are the people who wrote this article on dope? They write that 'Changing the system received 54 per cent, six points below the 60 per cent threshold needed to pass.' Mixed Member Proportional received 36.7% of the vote, 23.3% short of the necessary 60% to pass. They write that 'Fewer than 50 per cent of Ontarians cast ballots' but according to the Elections Ontario website 52.6% turned out to vote. I guess the proportional representation hysterics have now resorted to printing outright lies in order to trick people into buying what their selling.
  85. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: John Silverman - why is it that your party is known as the LIEBERALS?
  86. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: McGuinty did not win this election, Tory lost it pure and simple. McGuinty was toast going into this thing, and should be on hands and knees thanking Tory for introducing the 'public funding for religious schools' fiasco. This one issue alone is what cost the PC's the election.

    If anyone on this board thinks that Ontario has a love affair with the Liberals of McGuinty for that matter (Outisde the GTA that is) think again.

    Mind you, it was very predictable that the voters would hand McGuinty a majority in a knee jerk reaction instead of voting strategically and keeping those clowns to a minority government.

    Had to laugh last night how CTV was attempting to spin this liberal cough* 'victory' *cough around and correlate it somehow to the federal LPC about to gain momentum. What a joke.
  87. r r from London, Canada writes: ' was surprised, my candidate did get in as expected, but not with the #'s of votes we expected....pretty close race'

    Not many view Hillier as you do. A weakened PC party will not appreciate a loose cannon.

    Wonder what the PC party brass will do to get Hillier to shut up in the legislature? Perhaps he will have a hunting or tractor 'accident'.
  88. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Some of the people have spoken.
  89. Just a Lucky So-and-So from Tirana, Canada writes:
    Rich, blue-blooded, very smart, connected and good looking is no longer the winning formula for success in the GTA and Ontario in general anymore.

    So long John Tory!

    Although the winners are more or less white, this is diversity at work.

    Good.
  90. Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: 50% voter turn out but our current electoral system is just fine? I think the emperor has new clothes...
  91. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Chris Land you are correct about the MMP thing, I have no idea where the 'reporters' who put this article together got those massively incorrect figures.

    Here is a more accurate sentence 'Preliminary results from the binding referendum showed voters rejecting a system that awards legislature seats in line with a party's popular support by a margin of almost 2-1.'

    The only thing more scary than a dalton victory, is a dalton minority with his union buddies holding the balance of power!
  92. Bill M from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk.

    Vern and others, drop the Harris nonsense. You're the first ones to scream if Cons blame Martin and the Liberals for anything, and he's been out for less than two years, after thirteen years in power. Harris has been gone for more than six years. Find another boogey man.
  93. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: Mr. Tory is the architect of his own misfortune-where were his advisers and handlers when he started on this disastrous course?
  94. Alex Yaxmos from Canada writes: The voting public of Ontario have spoken, another four years of Liberal majority. You people just have to deal with it. Ain't Dalton's fault Tory was an idoit. He should have focus more on health care and the environment. Anyways, 42% of the people that voted wanted the Liberals and that is democracy. It's not the perfect system, but it's the system we have in place. maybe if Elections Canada had done a better job of educating people on the electoral reform, things could start to improve. Ontarians want a government that works and get things done. You can only do that effectively with a majority government. The liberals have a majority government. let's get things done.
  95. E A from Canada writes: I hope you are ready to pay millions of dollars more per election then, Guillaume. I don't know if you have ever witnessed the vote counting process, but it is done by hand, at each ballot. There is no way to account for alternate choices, since the method as it is now is to make piles of each candidate, and then count up the votes.

    But, assuming we're good with the spending of millions of more dollars so that you have the opportunity to let the world know who you would kinda like (but not as much as this other guy/girl) representing you. One of two (or maybe a combination of them) things will happen.

    First, people who don't have a second choice (because they are a one-party person, because they think everyone else isn't worth voting for - whatever) will either be pressured into voting for someone they don't believe in, or they will stay away.

    Second, I'm sorry to say, but your conservatives won't fare well. Sure, there may in the past (or perhaps only in your head, as often occurs with people who believe they are 'voting strategically') have been Green/NDP voters who would have had a Conservative second choice. But you can't possibly believe that that would be the case 99% of the time. Face it, the conservatives are benefitting from a united right and a left split three ways.
  96. A good Canadian from Canada writes: Another LIEbral win... What 'premium' will he put in on ths term?

    Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Four more years of the LIEBERALS = four more years of religious BIGOTRY. 'Caledonia' McGuinty will make sure only his Catholic schools get public funding while all other denominations are denied this prevelige. I wonder if this 'Papal envoy' is going to get a very special blessing from his 'holy father' for continuing this outrage.

    In Ontario, faith based funding of public schools is only allowed for English and French speaking Catholics.

    I though LIEbrals were a party of inclusion regardless of race, religion, or language, not a party of 'what is good for us, you can not have'.

    Little wonder Ontario is spiraling around the toilet bowl...
  97. Don Adams from Canada writes: RR from London...you should be so lucky as to have someone like Randy in Parliament standing up, going against the flow, in order to protect YOUR rights. Nope, not a loose cannon, just an ordinary man who see's an injustice being done and isn't politically correct enough to just sit back and accept it like most sheepish politicians do. Do whatever is necessary to have it corrected. A man with integrity. Unfortunately, we see very few in politics these days, and it sure is nice that BOTH my MPP (Randy Hillier) and MP (Scott Reid) are such honourable, hardworking individuals who have their constituent's well being at heart.
  98. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Just a Lucky'Rich, blue-blooded, very smart, connected and good looking is no longer the winning formula for success'

    (Don't know about your 'diversity' argument, however) When John Turner went down to double defeat many years ago, it was the end of that era. Well OK, so he wasn't 'very smart' , but all the rest. And Catholic too!
  99. André Clément from Sudbury ON, Canada writes: The Globe and Mail should report more extensively on the less than 50% turn out at the polls. How many votes were spoiled - deliberately by those who made their way to the polls to say 'I choose none of these candidates, I reject the roster of choices made available to me. Start over.' The publicists lament the low turn outs, shrug it off as apathy, express vague concerns about voters not fulfilling their civic duties and carry on. What the Globe and Mail should not ignore is the malaise we have in this province which is reflected across the country. Citizens are makinhg choices by inaction, but what are they? and why are they making them? Non-participation is weakening our democracy and a weak democracy is something we cannot afford as international infuences will increasingly challenge our national intelligence and as the corporate world continues to jokey for more influence in the political process. Voters need a clearer system to register their rejection of candidates and the electoral process needs to measure the pulse of its democratic system at every election to ensure it is providing for the representation it is now falsely claiming.
  100. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Here is my effort to describe the election results of last night assuming that the referendum had passed a year ago and that its rules were used last night: Liberals would have 71/107*90 seats = 60 seats. PCs would have 26/107*90 seats = 22 seats NDP would have 10/107*90 = 8 seats Greens would have 0 seats. Next, the parties would divide up the remaining seats (26 I believe) based upon their popular vote provided they won at least 5 seats. Liberals .42*26 = 11 seats PC .32*26 = 8 seats NDP .17*26 = 4 seats This leaves 3 of the 26 seats unallocated so I must be doing something wrong or else the Greens got screwed, but I might be close. So final totals : Liberals 60 plus 11 seats = 71 seats PCs 22 plus 8 seats = 30 seats NDP 8 plus 4 seats = 12 seats Now I realise that the numbers don't add up and that my initial method of allocating the 90 seats leads statistically to almost identical results as under the current system. What interests me is that the Liberals would have had 71 seats out of 116, an even larger majority and that the NDP would have received as many as a few more seats. Besides demonstrating that I have way too much free time on my hands, I don't think that this analysis proves much of anything but it beats reading the partisan name calling of most of the other posts contained herein.
  101. D J from Canada writes: Less than 50% turnout. Understandable because voters are fed up voting for all the liars HOWEVER the MMP option provided voters with a chance to CHANGE the system and what do voters do....NOT SHOW UP.

    No excuse anymore from those who whine and complain but didn't vote!
  102. Seb D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Yes, voter turnout was pathetic.

    If McGuinty was that hated, and Ontario was such a hell hole after 4 years of Liberal government, then why didn't voters come out in droves?
  103. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: Thank goodness a conservative occasionally gets to say what's really on his mind.

    Guess the great talking head in Ottawa didn't get to him in time.
  104. Durward Saar from Canada writes: It's official...Ontario has the dumbest voters in Canada.
  105. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Duceppe is campaigning against multiculturalism. Why would he be vote garnering in Ontario?
  106. Vern McPherson from writes: Bill M from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk. Vern and others, drop the Harris nonsense. You're the first ones to scream if Cons blame Martin and the Liberals for anything, and he's been out for less than two years, after thirteen years in power. Harris has been gone for more than six years. Find another boogey man.

    ---------------------------------------
    Bill, .... Harris' record in government absolutely stinks this province up from end to end. Don't tell me that was not a factor in yesterday's goings on. OK !!! People have plenty of reasons to hate Harris and for more elections than this one.
  107. J. Mac. from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: I hear Tory on CFRB in Toronto this morning and the man simply does not know when to shut up....
    JUST LIKE YOU YA BIG FOGHORN !!!
  108. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Andre..... look up the results at the Elections Ontario website. Voter turnout was more than 50%.
  109. Bat Man from T.O., Canada writes: Why didn't they come out in droves? Because most people don't care. This election was like picking which nut to get kicked. Either way it hurts.
  110. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: E A plenty of other countries use this system and it may well be worth the cost.

    I'm not concerned about any particular party (believe it or not) but I am concerned with the ability of the public to prevent or remove completely unpopular regimes from power. To me, having lived through some very dark years, that's the essential part of democracy that unsubstitutable, and sorely missing in Canada. MMP wouldn't have helped with that at all.
  111. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: F/A josquin 'Thank goodness a conservative occasionally gets to say what's really on his mind.'

    Plenty do, every day, to whom are you referring?
  112. Mark Orr from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow!! less then 50% of voters turned out, after 4 years of lies. So I can only conclude, Ontario deserves McGuinty and finds beling lies to perfectly acceptable.
  113. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Paul..... Go to the Elections Ontario website. MMP didn't get 54% of the vote it got about 37% of the vote. A crushing defeat for the PR set.
  114. E A from Canada writes: Well, you certainly don't have to convince me about MMP, that was a horrible idea that deserved to die. I am fairly well acquainted with the experinces of countries such as NZ with MMP systems. I'm interested to hear about the countries that have enjoyed success with the 1st choice/2nd choice system.

    I still, however, believe the Liberals would have won/done even better with that system.
  115. Old blue from Canada writes: McGuinty overwhelms................Makes a great case for enhanced Special Ed classes for Ontario residents.

    With any kind of luck he was also lying about the things he said he would do during the campaign.
  116. David Simon from Canada writes: 1/ At least Harris won back to back majorities. Tory keeps on losing-he's Robert Stanfield reincarnated-everybody likes him but no one votes for him.

    2/ One day the Catholics will have to make a choice-all faith based schools or no faith based schools. This election they voted for hypocrite McGuinty who loves public schools so much no one in his family goes to one.

    3/ Why didn't Tory announce that he was going to end, not cut the 'health care' tax? And why did he spend so much time campaigning in the City of Toronto-and why did he choose to run there? Harper has a minority government with no members elected from any of Canada's three biggest cities.
  117. Bill M from Canada writes: As Mark Twain once said, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the rest.
  118. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Vern McNasty is back = typical LIEBERAL supporter. He's 'progressive', They seem to like that term - like all the Toronto trendoids.
  119. Dave a Conservative from Ottawa, Canada writes: So Dalty for four more years. Dalty got roughly 24% (yes, 1 in 4) of the real potential votes (those who were eligible) in Ontario.

    What does that say? Voters are so apathetic, it doesn't matter whether the guy who wins says as long as no one questions RC funding. LOL.

    Keep watching the Ontario economy go down the toliet.. thanks McG.
  120. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Paul....Check the Elections Ontario website. Voter turnout was greater than 50%.
  121. Vern McPherson from writes: Ontario down the tubes ? Don't hold your breath misfits.

    Noisy misfits 3.7 %
    Sane Citizens 96.3 %
  122. Paul C from Toronto, Canada writes: All of these complaints about 'only 42% for a massive majority' and 'voter apathy leading to low turnout' would have been addressed if we accepted MMP - but we overwhelming rejected it. That is why we will have the same old, same old. We get what we pay for, so to speak.
  123. Vern McPherson from writes: Don Adams congratulations on your candidate's win. As you said it was much closer than anticipated but nevertheless your hard work paid off.

    Now we'll see how often you will have to defend him. Just caution him that every time he gets up in the Legislature or in front of the press he doesn't stick his thumbs in his suspenders and start sounding off like Fredrick March in Inherit The Wind.

    And good luck on those issues that matter to you.
  124. J L from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: No surprise here.Actually I was surprised the Conservatives did as well as they did.Many Conservatives sat this one out.What a shame,Mr Tory was so close to possibly becoming premier of this province.His policy statement on the funding for faith based schools did him in.A major political blunder which cost him the premiership,a seat, and in all likely hood the leadership of his party,That begs the question, why did he do it?
  125. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: EA, you may well be right this election as no one really liked any of the leading choices. But that kind of approach (preferential or run-off) could generally reward sensible platform development and appealing to as broad a section of the public as possible, even if they aren't your 'natural constituency' first choicers. Either way I'm sure we won;t be talking about change for a while!

    David Simon 'One day the Catholics will have to make a choice-all faith based schools or no faith based schools. This election they voted for hypocrite McGuinty who loves public schools so much no one in his family goes to one.'

    Mark my words, Dalton will fund other faith based schools because that is what will be required to continue funding his beloved Pope-based schools. That is what is so funny about this election. He will be the guy to do it, after that farce of a wedge-driving show.
  126. Joshua er from Canada writes: Most of the posters can keep crying. People complaining about not being able to find a doctor; Well you havent been trying hard enough, I have 2 family doctors. Doctor shortage blamed can be placed on previous governments when they started cutting enrollment spots and not being able to retain doctors.

    Whatever the problem deal with it, sheesh it funny reading your life story on these boards. And the constant banter from the frequent posters, you guys are just trolls stop acting like your intelligent.
  127. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Mark....Go to the Elections Ontario website. Voter turnout was greater than 50%.
  128. Michael B from Canada writes: The Toronto Star calls McGuinty 'Mr. Nice'.

    What a bloody insult to the families who he fought in court with autistic children! What an insult to the average family being taxed with his health tax and the people who have been lied to by him. Of course the Star mentions only one of his dozens of lies...Liberal lapdogs that they are in that place.
  129. Nick B. from Canada writes: Well, I'm not shocked, but the stupidity of voters in my province is pretty clear. Over a non-issue that was going nowhere (religious schools), they elected a do-nothing liar whose main accomplishments of his first mandate were raising taxes, doing nothing to fix healthcare, breaking promises about energy by taking no action to address the issue, and voting himself a raise of what was it, 25%? I can't believe people re-elected McGuinty, but I guess as the saying goes we get the government we deserve.
  130. JA M from Our Town, Canada writes: People in this province are as stupid as they look.
  131. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: Mr Tory, Guillaume, and no, we never hear personal comments----personal---from conservative MPs in Ottawa. We only hear Harper, or MPs spouting Harper's words.

    They are so stifled it hurts.
  132. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: DJ.... Go to the Elections Ontario website. Voter turnout was greater than 50%.
  133. Vern McPherson from writes: Dave a Conservative from Ottawa, Canada writes: So Dalty for four more years. Dalty got roughly 24% (yes, 1 in 4) of the real potential votes (those who were eligible) in Ontario. What does that say? Voters are so apathetic, it doesn't matter whether the guy who wins says as long as no one questions RC funding. LOL. Keep watching the Ontario economy go down the toliet.. thanks McG.

    ------------------------------
    davie, stop being such a liar and defeatist tell us how Ontario's ecoomy is going down the tubes OK ?
  134. May Spence from Canada writes: Congratulations Ontario you have just proved that politicians can lie to us and get away with it. You get the government you deserve.
  135. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: Ummm...all you 50% whiners - you're really in a tough spot. If a proportional number of conservatives stayed home, you're just eating your young on these boards (nothing new for conservatives, but I digress). If more than the average # of conservatives voted, it really means that liberal support is higher than the results show - a different jar of pickles. Or maybe, just maybe it's a little lonely on the 'right'.

    But please, keep calling progressives 'stupid' - it really encourages us to examine your platforms.
  136. Steven Flopper from Canada writes: Wait a minute. Even with a 50% turnout, the govenment was elected by the majority of the THINKING people in the province. I would rather see this than force people out who don't know what the hell is going on. The people who voted were well informed and that's who we want directing the government. Well informed voters, not welfare bum couch potatoes.
  137. Trilly B from Canada writes: Two million born every minute.

    Pretty sad that it only took about 25% of eligible voters to return McGuinty to office.
  138. Mike Adair from Hamilton, Canada writes: looks like the regressives are talking out both sides of their arse again. what a bunch of slimy hypocrites. when mike harris won back to back majority governments with less than 35 percent of the popular vote, the reactionaries talked about 'the harris mandate' and 'the people have spoken, lets tear this place up'. but when a grit wins back to back majority governments with a higher percentage of the popular vote, the regressives cry foul. 'hes not REALLY premier cause blah blah blah' the sad truth that the conservative base refuses to accept is that each and every election, both provincially and federally, three different parties that are centre or left of centre get a much higher percentage of the popular vote than does the party that is right of centre. the conservative parties in Canada should change the name of their party to 'the majority of Canadians think our core beliefs are repulsive but we keep getting elected cause of vote splitting amongst centre left parties' its kind of long winded but accurate.
  139. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: Tim Bee from Canada writes: 42% is pretty good.

    I think John Tory should concentrate now on doing what is fair regarding public funding of religious schools and work towards removing it for Catholic schools.

    ------------------------------

    Its not within Provincial jurisdiction! ... Its in our consititution (British North America Act of 1867) ... That's why it was never offered up as an option against Tory's insistence that he should fund all faith based schools. If you don't understand the issue, you shouldn't claim to know how to solve it!
  140. James Wallace from Barrie, Canada writes: Allan Martel from Canada writes: Here is my effort to describe the election results of last night assuming that the referendum had passed a year ago and that its rules were used last night: [...] This leaves 3 of the 26 seats unallocated so I must be doing something wrong or else the Greens got screwed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your mistake is that the threshold to be allocated a seat is 5% of the popular vote, not 5 seats. So what you considered unallocated seats would have actually gone to the greens. Also, the way you distributed seats wasn't quite right. The extra seats under MMP are top-up seats and are distributed based on the number of seats you are short of for the percentage of seats to be proportional to your vote. So the Liberals would be entitled to 0.42*129=54 seats. But they got 60 (based on your numbers), so they have 6 extra seats (which they keep). The PCs would have been entitled to 0.32*129=41 seats, subtract 2 seats because the liberals won extra seats = 39. So the PC's would have won 22 seats (your math again) and been allocated an extra 17 seats for a total of 39. Likewise the NDP would have had 20 seats and the Green Party 10 seats. Had we accepted MMP a year ago this election would have been a minority Liberal government with the numbers as follows: Liberal 60 seats (46.5% of seats from 42% of vote), PC's 39 seats (30% of seats from 32% of vote), NDP 20 seats (15.5% of seats from 17% of vote), and Green Party with 10 seats (8% of seats from 9% of vote). Dalton would be 5 seats short of a majority. I would have been happy with these results.
  141. D. C. from Ottawa, Canada writes: Those in this thread who have suggested that it should be made a law to vote need to give their heads a shake. Voting is a right, but voting is not simply a matter of marking an X on a piece of paper and stuffing it in a box. The presumption, all too often erroneous, is that the voters are actually following the issues and understand where the different candidates or parties stand. The reality is too many voters don't have a clue what the election is about, what the different parties have set as their direction should they win, and vote based on tradition, or worse on the basis of a protest (that is how we got Bob Rae's period in office) or worse still simply spoil their ballot. If a citizen of our province is so disconnected from the election process, too poorly infomed (by their inaction) to make an informed selection, they should not vote. Sure, they have right to vote, but along with that comes the responsibility to be informed. And if they have not put in the effort to inform themselves sufficiently and have chosen not to exercise their right to vote, they have no credible right to criticize the result nor the process that lead to it. That won't stop them from doing so, as some of the posted messages earlier this morning clearly show. If as reported 52% of the eligible Ontario voters exercised their right to vote, there's clearly a need to find ways to engage a higher percentage, but it would be unrealistic to think that 100% voter participation would be practical or effective.
  142. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: JOsquin 'we never hear personal comments----personal---from conservative MPs in Ottawa.'

    OK then Josquin, so which federal politician are you talking about when you said 'Thank goodness a conservative occasionally gets to say what's really on his mind.'

    ' to whom are you referring?'

    You're not making much sense.
  143. D Lefebvre from Canada writes: Congrats for Ontario! Boo hoo all you like but it seems people still remember that the Conservatives did little for Ontario more so than the Liberals.
    At least with the low voter turnout you got the voice of those who care enough to vote. If you are unhappy with the selection then spoil your ballot but go vote.
    As for trying to 'blame' TO for the Liberals victory - seems that the rural areas traditionally have a better record for voter turnout and many voted Liberal.
  144. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Allan Martel from Canada writes: 'Here is my effort to describe the election results of last night assuming that the referendum had passed a year ago and that its rules were used last night:............'

    Allan: Good analysis but there are 39 proportional seats. In addition the greens would have got some seats because they got more than 3% of the popular vote. So using your analysis (which I do like, no sarcasm) the numbers would look like this.

    Lib. 71/10790 seats = 60 elected seats. (39*42%= 16 seats) = 76 seats

    PCs. 26/107*90 seats = 22 elected seats (39*31%=12 seats) = 34 seats

    NDP. 10/107*90 = 8 elected seats (39*16%=7 seats) = 15 seats

    Greens would have 0 elected seats (39    8%=3 seats) = 3 seats

    Total = 128 seats. The single remaining seat is a result of some rounding and the fact that no other party got the minimum required 3% to get a seat but they did get slightly over 1%. I'm not sure how that seat would be assigned. So the Liberals would still have a majority which shows that the MMP would not resolve the current flaw in our system. We need full proportional representation. That is the only way the views of the people will be truly represented.

    But for now we have will have to deal with 4 more years of lies, inaction and uncontrolled spending.
  145. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: Let's see, that is 5 liberal provincial govts, 2 NDP------

    and 3 conservative, although Newfoundland's is really a closet liberal, which would make it 2.

    But who is counting?
  146. K Li from Mississauga, Canada writes: Just pathetic...we reward liars with victory! I guess it pays to lie.
  147. Don Ding from Roblin, Canada writes: To vote 'None of the above', just mark them all = a spoiled ballot.
  148. rob saunders from Belleville, Canada writes: Mtl Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: Another proof that Ontario is the worse province in the country. --------------------- No, no, didn't hear McGuinty speak. 'We are Ontario, and Ontario is Canada, and Canada is Ontario. He repeated this about 4-5 times. The way he said it was as if the rest of Canada doesn't exist.
  149. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: May Spence from Canada writes: Congratulations Ontario you have just proved that politicians can lie to us and get away with it. You get the government you deserve.

    ---------------------------------------

    Harpy has lied and flip-flopped on his campaign promises ... Does that mean you and the rest of the Con supporters will be voting for another party come the next federal election? Likely not ... Harpercrites all of you!
  150. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Wrong CS, It is strictly a provincial issue, which must start at the provincial level. Quebec got it done - driven completely by the province. NF too. Amendment required yes, but it must be requested by the province.

    However it is moot. Mark my words, Dalton will fund other faith based schools to guarantee the survivial of his family's pope-based schools. You can bank on it.
  151. C M from Canada writes: You can fool some of the people some of the time
    But you can't fool all of the people all of the time

    Unless you're Dalton McGuinty
  152. Mike Adair from Hamilton, Canada writes: vern: i agree. what a bunch of whiners. i was angry when harris was elected, dismayed and sad when harper got in, but i didnt whine. i believe an effective opposition can be almost as good and sometimes better than being the governing party. the liberals and ndp have done good things as the opposition parties. but not the conservatives. why? because for the past twenty years the conservative party has been about tearing things apart, not building things. mulroney dismantled every national economic institution he could get his dirty hands on and mike harris destroyed this province. the only thing harris built while he was in power was the 407, a highway built with tax dollars that the cons sold for pennies on the dollar to cover their campaign promises. anybody that thinks people voted FOR harper rather than AGAINST martin are either stupid or high.
  153. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: 'and 3 conservative, although Newfoundland's is really a closet liberal, which would make it 2.'

    And BC and Quebec's are really conservative, so add 2.
    but who's counting.

    And dalton's really NDP-light so subtract one.

    and...
  154. Lunatic Moon from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Last night was the lowest turnout ever for an Ontario provincial election. Dalt managed to get 40% of the 50 % who voted which means he formed a majority with 20% of the Ontario electorate. And the fallout from this campaign could also be record breaking.

    Secular Ontario needs to create more children if it wants to maintain political power, which it simply isn't doing. We have a dismal fertility rate of 1.4 children per female-while faith based families are reproducing, we're not.

    We have outsourced breeding to other countries and each year we need to bring some of this product to Ontario in order to shore up what we seem incapable of doing for ourselves.
  155. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: You know the saying - Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
  156. Reality Check from Ottawa, Canada writes: So 42% of Ontario's vote got McGuinty 66 per cent of the seats in this election - a 24% seat bonus- and 100% of the legislative power. Not the largest seat bonus in recent Ontario history (that was 1987), but close. The Legislature will not resemble the voting patterns of Ontarians, but Ontarians have said they like it that way- or at least the few who came out to vote did. Hey, at least this time the party that won all the power got more of the popular vote than anyone else. Don't take for granted that this will always be the case (1990).
  157. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: I was alluding to the conservative party head in Ontario with his school funding ideas----- and conservative politicians in general in Ottawa.
  158. Liberal Elitist from Windsor, Canada writes: To all you sore LOSERS, accept your defeat and move on. Stop blaming on the poor voter turn out. It's the same every election, so just accepted. Thank god the voters are smart enough in Ontario to keep the CONs out of the office. Now, if we could only do the same with our federal government, it would be superb.

    P.S. Tory wants another run as the leader for the CONS even after the horrible loss? This will be his second term as the CON leader without being elected into the parliment. This should be fun to watch. Who's giving up their seat for him?
  159. Vern McPherson from writes: You 2-faced COns howl about uncontrolled spending yet want everything fixed ? Which is it ?

    Your voting privilidges ought to be suspended !!

    You don't have a view, you have a mania !!!
  160. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'All you sour graped COns sound like the eastern defeatists harper likes to point fingers at LOL !!!'

    Actually Vern it is all good. All this means is that McGuinty has not dug his hole deep enough. I look forward to watching him dig deeper for the next 4 years as he lies, insults voters, back peddles, fails to follow through and generally fails to produce results. Watching him twist and turn in the wind will be amusing.

    What was one of his promises? 20 students per class under grade 6. I took a head count of my child's class picture this morning. 24 students. And that is a small class in that school. What was another one? No new taxes? What exactly would you call the health care premium that is costing my wife and I an additional $1500 a years?

    And the list goes on. But I will give McGuinty credit. He covered himself this time. He made no promises. In fact he really said nothing. Well he did sling a lot of mud. But then so did everyone else. Over all our choices were very poor this time around. Hopefully we will have real choices in 4 years. God know who ever replaces McGuinty will have one hell of a mess to clean up. It will probably be on par with the mess that Bob Rey left behind for Mike Harris to clean up.
  161. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'You 2-faced COns howl about uncontrolled spending yet want everything fixed ? Which is it ?'

    Both.

    It is called competent management. The Liberals just throw money at a problem and hope is fixes it self.
  162. john chuckman from Canada writes: This election shakes one's confidence in our democratic institutions. A man with a record that can only be described as shabby and dishonorable is given another majority. Fifty-eight percent of the people vote against this weird, obsessive, promise-breaking man, but he returns. MMP is decisively turned down - the requirements for its passage were set ridiculously and unfairly high - when the very election itself is the best argument for it. I wonder will our weird ferret-like premier honor his vote bribe of a new holiday? If he calls it Family Day, we'll know American Republican values have firmly taken hold. Little noted during the election was the effect of Dalton's poisonous reform to fixed-term elections. His government spent a fortune of our money to tell us about itself well in advance of the fixed date. This had the sour effect of raising the cost of our election and replacing intelligent discussion with useless advertising more than ever. If we keep going in that direction, our government will be for sale, as it pretty much is in the United States. If you want to understand what a lumbering, odd man McGuinty is, go look at the government Internet site. In many, many places, it refers to the McGuinty Government rather than the Ontario Government. He's turned the people's site into his personal site, at our expense. The man is simply shameless, but even worse he is ineffective.
  163. Vern McPherson from writes: COns ideology doesn't work.

    Just ask stephen harper and johnnytory.
  164. Cecilia L from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't think the voters are lazy, I think they are too fed up in politics in general and have no faith in any of the politician leader, politicians are not ranking very high in the 'trustworthy' category, yes it is pathetic. At least the other half did voted, and most of us don't want any changes? Now that is even more pathetic!
  165. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberal Elitist from Windsor, Canada writes: 'To all you sore LOSERS, accept your defeat and move on. Stop blaming on the poor voter turn out. '

    The only Loser in all of this is Toronto. A rat in a maze learns quicker than the standard Torontonian. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a better result - so don't expect improvement in Transportation, Energy the Environment or Taxes any time in the near future.

    Hahahaha
  166. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: Ontario voters the stupidest in Canada ? Hardly. Given the lackluster options, who would the tiresome Ontario-bashing, armchair pundits on these posts prefer ?
  167. D H from Montreal, Canada writes: Ontarians don't even realize that they are but a province and not the country. They only vote federal for the Libs. I guess the 42% who turned up thought they were voting for Celine.
  168. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Wrong CS, It is strictly a provincial issue, which must start at the provincial level. Quebec got it done - driven completely by the province. NF too. Amendment required yes, but it must be requested by the province. However it is moot. Mark my words, Dalton will fund other faith based schools to guarantee the survivial of his family's pope-based schools. You can bank on it. ------------------------------------------ Sorry, but you are wrong ... QC could only do so with the support of the federal gov't because it is a constitutional issue ... not within provincial jurisdiction. The Quebec Education Act of 1988 provided a change to linguistic school boards, a change that has not yet complete been fully implemented. In 1997, a unanimous vote by the National Assembly of Quebec allowed for Quebec to request that the Government of Canada exempt the province from Article 93 of the Constitution Act. This request was passed by the federal parliament, resulting in Royal Assent being granted to the Constitutional Amendment, 1997, (Québec)... QC alone could not make this change as you suggest they did. As for NFLD ... Since they were not part of the BNA of 1867, they were able to negotiate their way into Confederation ... Since NFLD never signed the BNA, they are not held to it like QC was and the ROC still is.
  169. David Patricks from Ontari-ari-air-o, Canada writes: Steven Flopper from Canada writes: Wait a minute. Even with a 50% turnout, the govenment was elected by the majority of the THINKING people in the province........

    WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!

    I laughed out loud when the Americans gave Bush a second term. Now I am just embarrassed to walk among the 1/4 of my fellow Ontarians who have returned a bald-faced liar to office.

    Shame on all of you!
  170. Matthew McKenzie from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Well I hope all of you who voted for Dalton are ready to live in a have not Ontario while Western Canada supports your welfare butts.

    If things keep going the way they are Manitoba could be a have province in a few years.
  171. A. Chinaman from Canada writes: The victory of Liberal in Ontario gives a wrong signal to the politicians: you can lie, you can break your promises in the early year of your term as long as you give some goodies to the people at the end of your term, you will be re-elected. The Federal Liberal did the same - they lied on free trade, GST, the Red Book promises etc. People have short memories and Canadians are forgiving and forgetful! We are a bunch of good-heart people!
  172. Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: Something is wrong with our system if the Liberals can get 40% of the vote and 70% of the seats.
  173. Goran F from Toronto, Canada writes: To those people who are not happy with the election result; you all feel free to move to Alberta, and don't forget to take JOHN TORY with you. STOP whining please.
  174. Michael D. from niagara, Canada writes: Mcsquinty won again?? This just goes to show that Ontarians are by far the STUPIDEST PEOPLE IN CANADA!! You have to be an out right MORON to vote for this pointy headed liar once again! A vote for McLIAR is a vote for more taxes, and more lies. Gluttons for punishment i guess....oh well you will get what you deserve. You dumb Liberal voters are bringing all of us who were smart enough not to vote for Liberal down with you!!
  175. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Vern McNasty - do you ever work? Your always on this site. Must be collecting the LIEBERAL poggie?
  176. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: Matthew McKenzie from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Well I hope all of you who voted for Dalton are ready to live in a have not Ontario while Western Canada supports your welfare butts.

    ----------------------------------

    We've been supporting your butts for decades ... About time someone returned the favour!
  177. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: To all of you who are so bent on percentages. You seem to not have any understanding of parliamentary democracy.

    There are no unrepresented citizens. A wining candidate represents all of you , whether you voted for him or not. This does not preclude you from expressing your views to said MPP or trying to inform that MPP of your ideas on policy. That MPP represents the whole riding!

    As for those who sling insults and slurs on all of the Ontarians who voted for a Liberal majority, it only highlights the immaturity of your narcissistic political philosophy.
  178. whatevah D from Canada writes: Mtl Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: Another proof that Ontario is the worse province in the country.

    coming from someone in a province that almost separated from Canada! Please!
  179. Alex Yaxmos from Canada writes: Awwww did the party you voted for not do so well in the election? Well the party I voted for is in power and I can't be happier. The people of Ontario have spoken.
  180. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: Something is wrong with our system if the Liberals can get 40% of the vote and 70% of the seats.

    ---------------------------------------

    And it only took 140 years for someone to come to that conclusion ... Maybe we should have a referendum on it!?
  181. Don Adams from Canada writes: Again, unfortunately, we're going to have all of Ontario governed by Toronto, and city people who just can't see anything outside their precious city limits. More legislation to come taking away the rights and property of individuals outside the GTA. Insufficient funding for the Ministry of Natural Resources to stock lakes, manage wildlife and the rural landscape, more intrusion by Ministry of the Environment into rural folks lives. There's not enough money going to Health we're told, but sufficient going to Health to hire inspector/enforcers to go around and ensure Granny isn't selling ungraded ( ie. read SIZED) eggs.

    A huge land mass, hundred's of thousands of folks lives ignored, governed by tree huggers and bunny huggers, people who really don't have a clue, yet become vocal over issues that really don't even concern them and get the pols to pass do-good, feel good legislation, irregardless of the fact the legislation does very little good but causes a great amount of harmand cost to individuals. ie. Nutrients Management Act anyone?

    4 more years of this crap? Disgusting.
  182. Don Adams from Canada writes: One bright note, at least the voters had enough sense to vote NO to the SIGS and MMP
  183. C. S. from Toronto, Canada writes: whatevah D from Canada writes: Mtl Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: Another proof that Ontario is the worse province in the country.

    ----------------------------------

    Funny ... Coming from the province that is deeper in debt than any other, yet continues to spend like its going out of style, then forces the ROC to support them via equalisation payments! Do you really understand what you're saying?
  184. Wil D. Harma from Vancouver, Canada writes: Congratulations to Ontarians. No funding based on religion. Keep up the good work. A fundemental requirement of good government is the separation of religion from politics.

    I must say Ontarians have always made good choices - except when you elected the right wing religious nuts lead by Mike Harris. This should be an eye opener to Steven H and other religious nuts masquerading as Conservatives, on the federal scene.

    Best wishes to Mcguinty and the Liberals from the west coast.
  185. E A from Canada writes: Guillaume, I really was interested in the countries that have tried the systems you spoke of. I'm certainly not against all reform, just that which doesn't make any sense/will just make the system worse.

    D.C., I agree with you. Although there must be something done to increase voter turnout, mandatory voting is not the way to go. Joking aside, I do think that a 'none of the above' vote should be included, although with safeguards against an anarchist possibility (no matter how small). I also think that more must be done to encourage student voting. I live very close to a large University campus, and can't tell you how many times I overheard students talking confusedly about how they could vote. A little last-minute for sure, but as the cliche goes, they are the future.

    A final note about faith-based schooling - I can't see it happening any time soon, if ever. Catholic schooling is protected by the Constitution, and we have seen how hard it is to change the Constitution, even for less divisive issues. It is very true that this isn't the optimal situation, but to make the situation worse by funding limitless different schooling systems is just ludicrous. McGuinty didn't create the issue, Tory did - and it was a fatally flawed one. No idea why he did it, but it was his own mistake.
  186. J Kay from Canada writes: Those most vocally complaining about the voter turnout levels seem to be implying that if more people had turned out then the results would have been different. That's a pretty big if. It presumes that those who stayed home then must have overwhelmingly been conservative supporters, in order to change the results but if that were true, then it says something quite poor about conservative supporters that they couldn't get out and thus have no one to blame but themselves. Otherwise it was likely a somewhat even split of who stayed at home or perhaps people who would have voted green or NDP but given the near certainty that their candidate wouldn't be voted in in their riding because of FPTP, they stayed home. Whatever the reasons one of the worst ideas one could ever invoke is forcing people to vote. I'd wager half the people who vote dont have clue one about the issues and vote along predetermined lines. The last thing we need is more unimformed people checking boxes at the polls just to see a higher turnout.


    The number of logical fallacies fling around this page is enough to give one pause. People rejecting Tory, largely on the basis of faith based funding are NOT saying they are in favour of Catholic school funding. That's not how logic works, it cannot be inferred from the results that that was the voters intent. What can be said is that the Catholic schools in Ontario, which are PUBLIC, exist because of the British North America Act of 1867 as part of confederation and it is not as simple as saying we wish to do away with it in Ontario. Those opposed to faith based funding and perhaps even Dalton agree it is unjust to fund catholic schools and not others but that doesn't mean we should extend funding simply because we are saddled with a 150 year old compromise during confederation, just to 'make thing right', while all the while making things worse.
  187. T. Scott from Canada writes: Now that's got to sting. Ouch. In all honesty though I'm pretty sure me and other like minded people are going to feel a sting at the federal level in the near future; at least I'm honest.

    Off topic, I find it interesting that these new names keep popping up on these boards but the wording of these 'newbie's' posts, ex. nicknames for regular posters and the carrying on of previous longstanding arguements and talking points seems to indicate that these posters aren't actually newbies. There is just too much of a familiar style and tone these newbies have. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm....
  188. B M from McGuinty's Riding, Canada writes: Mr Tory,
    After having met you a couple of times I found you to be intelligent, personable, eloquent and a sound leader (all of the qualities that Mr McGuinty is not). That being said please promise me one thing and you will have my vote in four years if you are still around....

    Never mention faith based education!!!!!!!! It cost you a majority government and gave it to a party that has lied, cheated and stolen from Ontarians. You must know that the intellect of the common voter is below zero so please never mention the topic again. It is clearly something that no one wants. If it ever crosses your mind again don't say a word and let it pass. Around the camp fire if that thought comes again, please let it pass and never speak the words again. The people of Ontario have spoken and we may have missed out on having a great Premier for the first time in a long time.
  189. Paul S from Niagara Region, Canada writes: So 42% of the popular vote is enough to win you 66% of the seats in government. Pathetic.

    This is exactly why we needed the referendum to pass..though I will agree it was doomed from the start since nobody made a big enough deal about it or even bothered to explain it in detail.

    Thanks for nothing Onterrible.
  190. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: John..... I heard last night that Elections Ontario is claiming that they saved 7 million dollars because of the fixed election date. I can't verify if that is true or not but that is what was reported. We might not know for sure for a week or so. I'm against fixed election dates as well because I like tight focused campaigns instead of the 3 months of electioneering that we got but I'm not sure that fixed election dates cost tax payers more money.
  191. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes:

    'You 2-faced COns howl about uncontrolled spending yet want everything fixed ? Which is it ?'

    Just like the federal Libby supporters... :-)
  192. Diego Monico from Canada writes: Good to see that Vern Mcpheasant is alive and well. I thought he keeled over yesterday with all that frothing and foaming mad defending the LIEbs. True to form he is back. Rant away Vern!
  193. rob saunders from Belleville, Canada writes: Back a few years ago: previous to Harris the Rae NDP government began massive cuts in education funding in Ontario and imposed a wage cut on teachers. With support for the NDP flagging, some teachers union leaders are leaning towards the provincial Liberals. This overlooks the fact that the Liberal government in Ottawa has acted in concert with the Harris government in Ontario, cutting $6 billion per year from transfer payments to the provinces. At this time on average Ontario teacher were paid on the average 23.9% more than the other 9 provinces. When Harris came into government there was a 11 Billion deficit , after 2 term of Harris it was 6.5 B. What is the current Budget Deficit.
    What I'm pointing out here is Mike Harris had to make drastic cuts in Ontario's Budget because of the Federal Liberal government cuts in Transfer Payments(6 Billion) to Ontario. Tory and the provincial Conservative are still paying the price for the necessary cuts.
  194. V C from Toronto, Canada writes: I didn't vote. But not because I'm lazy or don't care. For one, I live in a 'safe' riding where the incumbent could have won with half the number of votes he got. The outcome was pre-decided. My vote could not have had any impact on the outcome. Second, what kind of choices did I have? None worth even 2 minutes of my time, in my opinion. I'd be very much in favour of seeing 'none of the above' on the ballot. Then I'd vote for sure.
  195. Devoted Harperite from Canada writes: To whoever called Dalton Ontario's own Bill Clinton...try Ontario's own HILLARY Clinton. Talks out of both sides of his mouth, no personality, no charisma, no fresh ideas, always waffling, and so on.
  196. T. Scott from Canada writes: One of themes that has been going on in this board is the point that a minority of votes as related to overall population resulted in a majority of seats. You never hear this from the winners though, no matter which party wins. Why is that?
  197. Vern McPherson from writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes --------------------------------------------- 1/ We have results. We have a law that prohibits governments in Ontario from hiding deficits in furture. And we have a surplus. That was the first priority. 2/ We have LOWER class sizes. Not the goal yet but progress. That's RESULTS. We have more money in education. Not enough yet but kids are in school and we did not lose 26 million teaching days to striking workers as Harris attempted to break the unions he blindly hated. 3/ We have growth in the economy, GDP, employmejnt, population, revenues, lower unemployment. Those are results. 4/ If the HC premium is costing you and your wife 1500 a year pal you are not suffering. Try living on 900 bucks a month which is the disabled person's stipend in Toronto or anywhere in Ontario ? Not much, but more than the Harris days and more opportunity for disabled persons. Not perfect but progress. 5/ We have more nurses and lower wait times. Not perfect yet but we have progress. We protected our public health care system. We don't pay some outfit profit to replace hips and knees, cure cancer and treat diabetes or skin rashes. Progress yes - perfect no. What you forget is government is a steady hand process. Not a search and celebration of a messiah to kick A$$. You want to earn good dough and have all these services and pay less tax ? You are a dreamer fella. Whats more you are un-informed, dishonest and inaccurate. In short you are a cheap political howling CRAPhead COns no one listens to. The majority spoke yesterday and you lost. Harris cleaned up allright. He CRAPPED on the province in the process and it will take a decade or 2 to sweep his CRAP off the floor.
  198. Hans S from Toronto, Canada writes: Cons Cons go away! Don't come back another day!
    What a bunch of wining loosers.
  199. J L from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Calling Ontarians stupid.and ------g slaves and the general mentality of some of these postings just confirms my contention that this type of comment format should be discontinued, and replaced with the letter to the editor feature,where one is required to supply a name address and telephone number in order to have ones comments posted.after being scrutinized by the editorial staff.The people of Ontario are stupid are they,my god and ------g slaves I rest my case.Children or the mentality of a child, playing on the computer and begs the question why are they not in school and where are their parents? and if there adults why are they not at work?
  200. Vern McPherson from writes: gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes:

    ------------------------------
    Well put Gaetan. Unfortunately it's far too complicated a concept for pea brained COns.
  201. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Hans S from Toronto writes: 'What a bunch of wining loosers.'

    I'd say that your statement is an oxymoron, but I think I will revise my position to this: You are a moron.
  202. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Allan Martel..... It appears that you don't understand the MMP proposal. The Proportional vote would be used to make the legislature proportioal giving more seats to parties that didn't win so many in the plurality elections. For example if the Green's won 10% of the vote but didn't win a single one of the plurality seats then they would get 13 of the proportional seats (10% of 129 = 13). The Liberals on the other hand got 60 of the 90 plurality seats which is 47% of the entire legislature they would get 0 proportional seats because they are already above the 42% of the vote. It appears that you need to do a little more reading.
  203. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Already there is an growing PROTEST movement in Ontario against Miller and Mcshifty: avoid taxes as best you can. don't spend money in the province. use gov't services as much as possible.

    Since the province is going DOWN, speed up the process.
  204. J Kay from Canada writes: It is an incredibly sad commentary on those expressing the view that the people of Ontario are 'the stupidest people ever' for voting in a Liberal government. What is sad is being so incredibly fixated, narcissistic, self-absorbed as to think your opinion, your views are somehow more 'right' than others. Those whining are of course for the most part those who wished the people had voted Conservative, and had they done so, had Tory not completely made a mess of his campaign, then the people of Ontario would be 'intelligent', 'wise', etc. Others exemplify Wilde's observation of 'tis better to silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt', as they incorrectly imply that it was Toronto alone that voted in the Liberals or more ignoratly that Ontario has some sort of predicliction for voting Liberal when there were both Conservative and NDP majorities within recent memory. Here's wishing ignorance and the possession of a soap box were mutually exclusive.
  205. Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: C. S. from Toronto: I came to the conclusion that our system is flawed a long time ago, and therefore voted MMP.
  206. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: I think I saw Vern voting yesterday. His veil slipped open just enough to see his face.
  207. earl pearl from Maple, Canada writes: The colossal misjudgement of the public mood on faith based schooling trumped the incompetence of the Great Liberal Liar.

    Talk about gift wrapping a win to your opponent.
  208. Paul S from Niagara Region, Canada writes: T. Scott from Canada writes: One of themes that has been going on in this board is the point that a minority of votes as related to overall population resulted in a majority of seats. You never hear this from the winners though, no matter which party wins. Why is that?

    I think you know exactly why. That's hardly the point.
    Don't you think it would be better if the percentage of party seats reflected the percentage of votes, so that no one could complain no matter who won? You know, like FAIR FOR EVERYONE??

    Well according to the referendum results...about 70% of Ontarians don't want that. Pathetic.
  209. Vern McPherson from writes: Diego Monico from Canada writes: Good to see that Vern Mcpheasant is alive and well. I thought he keeled over yesterday with all that frothing and foaming mad defending the LIEbs. True to form he is back. Rant away Vern!

    --------------------------------
    I read some of the stupid maniac content you offered here diggy It ain't exactly worth reading. So I am not surprised when you read you look at the pictures only. Recognized my name did you ?
  210. Paul Rogers from Canada writes: Ontarians - we've got to do better in voter turn-out! We've got to participate in our democracy if we want it to continue. Having said that - I'm glad to see the Torys take a beating. We've got to maintain the seperation of church and state. The Con's were wanting to take us back to the Dark Ages.
  211. Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: Ontario votes provincially one way and federally another, so this indicates that Harper's on the road to victory again next eleciton.
  212. Rolly Beethoven from Canada writes: If it's not broken why fix it?
  213. gilles monenemie from Montreal, Canada writes: Looks like Tory should joins the feds and help Stephen Harper sell his creeping (creepy) social conservative agenda. Thats the quickest way to flush the tory turds from this fine country.
  214. Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: Paul Rogers from Canada: You say 'got to maintain the seperation of church and state.'

    Unless, of course, it's a Catholic school, in which case you fund it 100%.

    Doesn't sound like separation of church & state to me.
  215. DON BARTA from Canada writes: GOOD NEWS: My guy got in.

    BAD NEWS: My party didn't.

    NO NEWS: It looks like over 50% of the voters were too lazy to get off their butts and vote - with 14 advanced poll days and election day avaliable, there is no excuse for this...........

    PS: If you didn't vote - you have lost your right to complain!!!!!!!!!
  216. Vern McPherson from writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: I think I saw Vern voting yesterday. His veil slipped open just enough to see his face.

    ---------------------------

    What does that mean clarkie ? Does it mean you hate people of color other than white ? Or if they dress differently from you ?

    And you call others losers ? You will rule your own toilet pal with that stuff.
  217. Paul S from Niagara Region, Canada writes: J L from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: this type of comment format should be discontinued, and replaced with the letter to the editor feature,where one is required to supply a name address and telephone number in order to have ones comments posted.after being scrutinized by the editorial staff.

    So basically, J L, you're saying that you're against free speech and in favour of the strictest kind of sensorship?
  218. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: V C from Toronto - You did not vote, then you have surrendered any serious considerations of your opinions by those who voted.
  219. Vern McPherson from writes: My god in heaven look at the sore losers here today WOW !!!!

    What's their reaction going to be when harper gets his political a$$ kicked ?

    They'll go nuclear !!
  220. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: 'There are no unrepresented citizens. A wining candidate represents all of you , whether you voted for him or not. This does not preclude you from expressing your views to said MPP or trying to inform that MPP of your ideas on policy. That MPP represents the whole riding!'

    True. The elected official represents the interests of all citizens in his/her riding but that individual does not represent the views of everyone in the riding. That is where proportional representation is a better option. A member should win because what he/she stands for is reflective of the values of the majority of the constituents. If one cannot sway the constituents then one does not deserve to govern with a majority government. As conservative I can voice my views to the winning Liberal MPP but my opinion will quickly be put in file 13 because it is not in line with Liberal ideals. Thus, the Liberal may represent me as a citizen but that same Liberal will not address my concerns. In Dalton McGuinty's case, he will just tell me that what I am saying is not true and blatantly insult me. Much like he did to that woman during the campaign.
  221. Gordon G from Yellowknife, Canada writes: Vote with your feet people. You won't believe how happy being out of Ontario makes you feel.
  222. E A from Canada writes: Paul S: Rather than complaining, how about an idea of how to fix the system?
  223. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: I think I saw Vern voting yesterday. His veil slipped open just enough to see his face.

    ---------------------------

    What does that mean clarkie ? Does it mean you hate people of color other than white ? Or if they dress differently from you ?

    And you call others losers ? You will rule your own toilet pal with that stuff.
    _________________________
    I'm saying you dress very nicely ol' Vernie.
  224. pearlie chan from Burlington, writes: It is disapponting that only 50% turned out to vote. To those who did not turn out to vote and don't like the liberal party to win, don't complain because it is your choice to let other to speak for you.
  225. Pete H from Canada writes: Paul Rogers from Canada writes: Ontarians - we've got to do better in voter turn-out! We've got to participate in our democracy if we want it to continue. Having said that - I'm glad to see the Torys take a beating. We've got to maintain the seperation of church and state. The Con's were wanting to take us back to the Dark Ages

    There probably is no hope for the Conservatives if that is a commonly held misperception. I suspect it is just partisan posturing because even I know that Liberals aren't that naive or stupid.
  226. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Don Barta, 'PS: If you didn't vote - you have lost your right to complain!!!!!!!!! '

    Now that is the best thing I have heard today. They should give out little ID cards to the registered voters who ACTUALLY voted. Those cards would entitle those of us who did vote to speak on behalf of those who didn't. Let's call it a 'You are entitled to my opinion license' - and if you didn't vote - you just aren't allowed to add your two cents.

    I like it. Let's have a referendum on the matter so 60% of the votes from 50% of the population can shoot it down.
  227. Liberal Elitist from Windsor, Canada writes: To all you who thinks that the Liberal government cheated and lied and broke promises because he raised taxes when he said he wouldn't. Canada is a socialist country, that's why we have the medicare, and public education. If we don't pay for these services through a little bit of taxes, we will have to pay with an arm and a leg when we get sick or injured. Which is it that you want? The free medicare or couple of dollars off of your pay cheques.
  228. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'My god in heaven look at the sore losers here today WOW !!!! What's their reaction going to be when harper gets his political a$$ kicked ? They'll go nuclear !! '

    Perhaps that is the only way we will see those coal plants decommissioned in the near future. Blaven.
  229. A. Chinaman from Canada writes: Ref to Goran F from Toronto's comment: Your attitude and mentality do not make sense at all. You are implying: if you are happy living in this world, you better move to heaven (or hell).
  230. J M from Realityville, Canada writes: Goodbye John Tory. Time to pack the banjo, grab that Stetson, hop in the pickup truck and head west. Please don't stop in Manitoba. Alberta rednecks will great you warmly and you can join in one of the weekly white power rallies. Although you've been to too much school to be a politician, there are many open positions in the oil industry.
  231. Me in Ontario from Canada writes: Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: stunning results. Catholics are more important than other religions in the minds of people from Ontario?

    I don't see what the big deal is with faith based funding of schools when the United Church, Anglican, Catholic, and Mennonite churches were all funded throughout Canadian history to house and school Native children. Or did y'all not know that??? For your information, the last two faith based funded schools shut down in 1989 and 1996, one was Mennonite and the other I believe was Anglican?! Tell me what the difference is...please anyone out there on know-it-all land?!!!!!!!!!!!
  232. D R from Canada writes: Tories get handed a humilating defeat and the next morning the sun is shining brightly... coincidence? I think not.
  233. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberal Elitist from Windsor writes: 'Canada is a socialist country, that's why we have the medicare, and public education. If we don't pay for these services through a little bit of taxes, we will have to pay with an arm and a leg when we get sick or injured. Which is it that you want?'

    Can we pay with your fingers and/or mouth? I'm for that.
  234. C W from Northern Ontario, writes: What makes you think that voter turnout was pathetic? How about not caring which pathetic candidate gets the vote? Here, we had a choice between a do-nothing cabinet minister and 3 do-nothing nobodys. I couldn't give a sh!t about any of them, and wouldn't recognize them if they walked down the street shouting on a megaphone (must be a photo-op in town...) The fact remains that our riding means NOTHING in Ontario (or federal, for that matter) politics and my vote will continue to mean nothing, no matter what party is elected here. And you wonder why there is voter apathy.
  235. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Pete H from Canada writes: Paul Rogers from Canada writes: Ontarians - we've got to do better in voter turn-out! We've got to participate in our democracy if we want it to continue. Having said that - I'm glad to see the Torys take a beating. We've got to maintain the seperation of church and state. The Con's were wanting to take us back to the Dark Ages
    _______________

    LOL! This shows that to win in Ontario you've got to DUMB DOWN THE ISSUES!

    Pete H: what about Mcquinty's support for publicly funding Catholic schools?......................................
  236. E A from Canada writes: Clarke and Pete: Any chance you'll enlighten us as to why FBS is a good idea?
  237. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: C. S. ' (Québec)... QC alone could not make this change as you suggest they did.'

    Can you read? No one said they could, but the move to change it had to come from the province, it has to start with the province, the province has to ask that it be changed federally, and no one outside the province cares in both the successful examples, what happenes in another province, thus it passed easily at the federal level as it is of interest only to that province. Thus it is completely relevant a the Provincial level, which is the OPPOSITE of your first 'point'. You are wrong. The province MUST lead the effort to change.
  238. Ethan Train from Buffalo, United States writes: I can't help wondering how humiliated John Tory must feel. He gets thrashed in what he wanted to be a contest of leaders, loses the seat he was contesting and gets the blame [rightly so] for turning it into a one-issue contest. At least one thing is abundantly clear - John Tory is not a political leader.
  239. David Wright from Toronto, Canada writes: Voters aren't necessarily lazy; they are just rational. The cost (value of their time) of obtaining the information on the candidates and parties is extremely high. If I place the vote that makes my candidate win by 2 (or lose by 1), it was unnecessary (so I should sit at home, drink a beer and watch some hockey). Furthermore, the percentage of eligible voters voting is still quite high and would easily constitute a strong sample of the overall population.

    FYI - Notwithstanding this argument, I did go to the polls yesterday. I refused the candidate ballot (I'd rather abstain than vote for incompetence) and I voted against MMP. A maximum of 4 years of incompetence is marginally preferable than potentially never-ending minority governments with the balance of power in the hands of the Communist party of Canada.
  240. John Silverman from Canada writes: Conservative supports must either have no jobs or be paid by the conservative party.

    The majority of Ontario and Canada clearly does not like the conservatives, so how to explain all the conservative whiners on here?!? At least Liberals have jobs and contribute to society instead of just constantly spouting propoganda and lies on G&M forums.
  241. Pete H from Canada writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada: Do yourself a favour and take some reading comprehension courses and there might just be an outside chance of not looking so lame. Your helping the Conservative cause about as much as Vern helps the Liberals.
  242. maggie walkerton from Canada writes: Am surprised Harper didn't pour large lots of loot into the province to try to buy the Tory Tory vote .... worked in Quebec for the feds.
  243. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Pete H: I asked you a question...answer it (if you can!)
  244. Col. Akula from Canada writes: I am happy to see that Green came in third and even second in many ridings where the NDP traditionally come in third or second. For a party that five years ago was polling at 3% and is now at 11%, that is something to congratulate.

    Green is the party of the future. I will not go as far as saying that it will become a power player anytime soon but it will certainly begin to make its presence known. Honestly it is a party of vision...as in 20 years down the line.

    Canada stands poised to corner the international market in Green technology (bio-diesel fuel cells, wind farms, hybrid cars) and has certain policies that will be extremely relevant in the future (A constitutional ban on bulk sale of fresh water, subsidies on organic foods, tariffs on trans fats, subsidies for local, small farms and a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing the right fo all Canadians to clean air and water) as well as tax shifting measures that reduce personal and income tax and increase carbon taxes on large polluters>

    So while I won’t celebrate just yet. I am happy to see that we are starting to gain some ground.

    So long NDP, you were.......amusing.
  245. Robert LaGrange from Ontario, Canada writes: John Silverman from Canada writes: Those Conservatives elected your Prime Minister, and will do so again when Stephane Dion decides to lose an election.
  246. whatevah D from Canada writes: Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Goran F from Toronto, Canada writes: 'To those people who are not happy with the election result; you all feel free to move to Alberta'

    You are pathetic....nice exclusionary attitude. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Guess what...with McGuinty in the disaster seat for 4 more years, my guess is that all of those Manufacturing Jobs we lose are going to Alberta daily - so no need for you to dispense your ill-advised advise.

    It's people like you that will continue to make Toronto the over-spending, underachieving $hit hole that it is.

    Sorry, but I agree with Goran. If you hate TO that much why don't you leave? Seriously, I'm curious. I hated the Harris government but I never resorted to attacking the city during those years even though I saw a lot more homeless people on the streets after his regime cut social programs
  247. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada:

    Don't have much time but here goes....

    Your assumption that MMP would lead to a greater voice in parliament is suspect. Under MMP we would have a perpetual minority government who could only govern by a dilution of party policies to reach a consensus.

    If your choice of candidate/party would put you in the minority then you would still seem to have no real effect of government policy.

    Modern Western style democracy is based on the Roman system of representation and not the Athenian direct representation.

    We elect an MPP or MP to spend the time and effort to understand the complexities of an issue and to vote on such matters intelligently. Given that this is the ideal and not always the reality.

    Either the Member is but a machine that votes only based on the local popularity of a proposal or they vote based on relevant information gathered and studied.

    In the first you could just populate Parliament with citizens chosen by jury who then vote whatever the polls dictate. In the second you need elections and candidates to explain their positions.

    It's one or the other. This is one of the fallacies of the Reform Agenda on MPs and MPPs.

    So until we define the role of an MPP or MP, MMP is still not a guarantee that the smaller, less common points of view will be heard.

    Perhaps we should ask why is it that these smaller, less common political opinions are still, after decades, small and less common.
  248. Paul S from Niagara Region, Canada writes: E A from Canada writes: Paul S: Rather than complaining, how about an idea of how to fix the system?

    I wrote a lengthy response to this which appeared briefly and then suddenly vanished from the board when I clicked refresh again. Thanks for censoring me G&M.
  249. E A from Canada writes: C.S and 'Liberals Steal' - you're both wrong. It is not an issue of whether it is within federal or provincial powers. It is protected by the Constitution, and therefore the Constitution must be amended to make that change. I don't know which amending formula would apply, but suffice to say it's not going to happen. Period. Get over it.
  250. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: I thought (like the vast majority of poeple) that John Tory's decision to push fake-based school funding was about the dumbest decision a supposidly politically savvy person could make. Now I'm not that sure...apparently he's now decided to stay on as leader. Hopefully people within the party will have something to say about that one.
  251. Reality Check from Canada writes: Actually, a majority of Ontarians (54%) wanted MPP. However, it fell short of the super-majority set for the referendum to pass. If we used the same first-past-the-post standard in the referendum that we use to elect our MPPs, we'd evidently be voting with MPP in 2011. But we're not. If FPP is so fair and good, then why couldn't it be used for the referendum? Of two choices, Ontarians get the system chosen by the minority. Dumb.
  252. The Electorate are hopelessly Brain Dead from Canada writes: Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Vern McNasty is back = typical LIEBERAL supporter. He's 'progressive', They seem to like that term - like all the Toronto trendoids.
    ===================================

    Vern is a 1st cla$$ example of a Lieberal; a complete, unmitigated butthead. I'd love to meet him sometime, just to see if he really looks as stupid as he sounds.
    Vern, take you own advice and shut the 'F' up. MORON
    LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL! (ad nauseum)
  253. Nelson C. from Toronto, Canada writes: THIS version electoral reform was rejected. I admit, when I first heard about it I was for it, because FPTP results in $#! like this; however, upon educating myself on it, it was a half-@$$ed attempt to reform that was doomed to failure from the start. There's no doubt in my mind that many of us are still in favour of coming with a better way to elect our idio-- I mean, representatives in prov'l parl. Having said that, WAY TO GO GREEN! I like the Freedom Party's platform too. muah.
  254. Vern McPherson from writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: True. The elected official represents the interests of all citizens in his/her riding but that individual does not represent the views of everyone in the riding. That is where proportional representation is a better option. A member should win because what he/she stands for is reflective of the values of the majority of the constituents. If one cannot sway the constituents then one does not deserve to govern with a majority government. As conservative I can voice my views to the winning Liberal MPP but my opinion will quickly be put in file 13 because it is not in line with Liberal ideals. Thus, the Liberal may represent me as a citizen but that same Liberal will not address my concerns. In Dalton McGuinty's case, he will just tell me that what I am saying is not true and blatantly insult me. Much like he did to that woman during the campaign. ---------------------------- What does all that tell you choice ? It tells you your views are not in the majority and shut up till the next election. Or go to court like stevie suggested. Sue me he said. If your group gets elected you can repeal something and pass what you want. And when the Supreme Court strikes your bull$hi! law down you complain to whom ? And it wasn't a woman, .... it was a male cancer patient who turned and walkes away from McGuinty immediately upon making his statement. Once again you can't be accurate because you don't want to be accurate. It diminishes your silly ideology if facts are stated. That's YOUR prob fella. Not the electorate's problem. Get used to it.
  255. mail reader from Canada writes: Fewer than half of the voters turn out. Pathetic! I read the comments of those who 'respectfully declined' with dismay. If the politicians and issues did not spark your interest, maybe that tells you something about the politicians! Get involved! The lying weasel McGuinty claims victory in 66% of ridings based on the votes of 21% of eligible voters. It surely is time to change the system of elections in Ontario.
  256. Starting Over from Ontario, Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Starting Over from Canada writes: 'If intelligent life is watching from somewhere 'Out there', the voters in Ontario have just proven that there is none here.'

    The most definitive proof that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is the fact that it has chosen to NOT contact us.

    Aye.
  257. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: E A 'Any chance you'll enlighten us as to why FBS is a good idea?'

    A 1 : School choice is a good thing. Look at the results in Alberta. FBS are just one type of school that parents can choose. The only ones who disagree are the Unions. We know why.

    A 2 : If Catholics are allowed State-paid FBS it is inevitable that other faiths will get them (can you Imagine any other costly benefit from the state for only one religion!) Therefore, lets work to extend this to at least get some good secular schools and charter schools and arts schools and so on, out of this inevitable change.
  258. Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: It's pretty clear from reading these posts that many people have no idea what the electoral reform was about. The many complaining are complaining about the very thing that PR would correct.

    Not choosing electoral reform for Ontario I see as the largest mistake they have made, not just for themselves, but Canada at large for decades to come.

    I blame the Ontario government and the media for the lack of responsible and comprehensive education on the subject.

    BC had a much larger vote for PR and I think would have passed had Campbell and the media did a better job of getting the public educated.

    One has to ask what advantage there is for those that oppose to keep the choices so narrow that it creates voter apathy? Who really gains by doing this?
  259. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Wow...Dalton really put the stamp on Tory. Guess that goes to show politicians don't ever bring up religion in Ontario. Death sentence.
  260. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: John Silverman writes: 'At least Liberals have jobs and contribute to society instead of just constantly spouting propoganda and lies on G&M forums. '

    So John, how do you explain this:

    John Silverman writes: 'The majority of Ontario and Canada clearly does not like the conservatives'
  261. Mike Dupuis from Canada writes: I was wanting to vote Conservative and get the lying so and so 'Read My Lips; No New Taxes' S.O.B. out.

    Then comes along Tory with this rediculous, stupid, idiodic, insane idea. Faith based education for everybody. Well there went my vote out the window. No matter what any other issues were put on the elections platform, I was not going to vote for a party that supports such an idea.

    I was raised Catholic and educated in the Catholic school system. This is where my parents sent me. I do not support these ideas any more. Religion is something that should be taught at home, not in publicly funded systems. If religions want religion taught in schools, then they should fund them with there own finances. Religion is a personal choice not a public choice.

    I support a single school system. We should eliminate the Catholic Separate School Board.
  262. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Too bad sour grapes make poor wine because we'd have a bumper crop here. According to the extreme rightwing partisan nancy pants the entire province is a bunch of fools.

    Yeah that makes sense, it's everyone else whose crazy.
  263. Vern McPherson from writes: Pete H from Canada writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada: Do yourself a favour and take some reading comprehension courses and there might just be an outside chance of not looking so lame. Your helping the Conservative cause about as much as Vern helps the Liberals.

    ------------------------------------------------

    Vern helps the libs ? I could give a phu.. less. But I won't sit around and pass up on all the fun pointing out the dummest of the dumb pretending they know how to run a pi$$ at a brewery never mind a province or a country !
  264. John Silverman from Canada writes: mail reader the voter turnout was over 50%. The G&M article was wrong - check the elections Canada site. The actual turnout was 52.6%, not much less then the last few elections.
  265. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: It's amusing the number of brainless Liberal supporters on here that actually think McGuinty won based on his platform & laurels.
  266. Brian C from Canada writes: McGuinty calls 21% a majority.
    Looks like Ontarians want liars as politicians.
    At least they're consistant.
  267. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: I guess the Catholics were right all along. They are the chosen ones.
  268. M Phillips from Canada writes: Well I guess we will have to wait 4 more years before we can start funding faith based schools and get to see little boys and little girls separated and taught, with public money, that boy and girls, men and women are not equal. Gee, you likely think I am poking a stick at that middle eastern religion but since the big three all originated in the middle east you can take your choice. Optically one seems to do a better job at teaching this principle but we can see that all three - which faith only has men as their religious leaders? I believe 2 of these 3 are quite closed on this with the other not much better.

    So to conclude - get silly fairy tales out of eduction and education out of the silly fairy tale business and you lazy parents who want your kids to be taught religion get your sorry assssses out of bed on Friday, Saturday and or Sunday and take your own kids, on your own dime, to your own place of worship. I don't see to many crowded religious parking lots so if this is so important to you then practise what you preach.
  269. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: E A ' I don't know which amending formula would apply, but suffice to say it's not going to happen. Period. Get over it. '

    I agree it's not going to happen but not because of the constitution or federal law. Those have been changed to accomodate the elimination of state-paid religious schools in other provinces and could farily easily be changed. It will not happen because the Catholics, including dalton, will push for school choice before they would allow their system to disappear. That's why it won't happen. And between the UN and our activist charter judges there is no way it will be allowed to stand as the only state-paid faith-based school.
  270. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Tory has vision...but the vision was trumped by fear-mongering and an extremely friendly liberal media. Even Hampton noticed the media pretty much ignored him. This election was not decided by the pollsters nor the voters. The media chose the winner.

    Can somebody tell me something about McLiar platform? The liberal fearmongering in this campaign is akin to the Republican fear-mongering down south. If I had a kid I would try to enrol him/her in a publicly-funded private catholic school and when they are not allowed b/c we are not catholic I would sue under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Of coarse McGuinty would appeal the ruling and ignore the Charter and the court ruling as he did with Autistic children. Where was the media on this issue. Can you imagine if Harris ignored the courts and appealed the ruling to fund autistic children? THe legislature would still be burning!

    McLiar...you peaked last night. The next four years you will not be able to blame Harris and the voters will see you for what you are...2nd rate
  271. Bat Man from T.O., Canada writes: 'The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid.'
    Art Spander
  272. J H from Canada writes: Stop whining, Cons. You lost!

    Your man showed his true colours, and Ontarians didn't like what they saw. Even with the Libs mis-management, they were more attractive than the alternative.

    Writing on the wall? I wouldn't be surprised if the federal election results in the same miserable turnout, and the same case of absenteeism on the part of mid-road Con supporters who can't stomach what Harper is dishing.
  273. Paul Jacobelli from Toronto, Canada writes: The problem I had with MMP was that it enabled 39 MPPs to sit in the legislature and not be responsible to a constituency. Their votes in the legislature would be governed by the party leader that appointed them to the list and not voters in their ridings (which they wouldn't have). To me this allowed lifetime politicians the chance to be even more secure. They only had to please the leader to be on the list. The more they pleased the leader the higher up they would be on the list. That's a recipe for deadwood. Here's a thought that will make people scream. If you want more representation in the legislature why not do a major re-districting. That way we won't have some ridings with, say, 50,000 eligible voters and others with close to 100,000 voters. It would mean more politicians (ouch) but it would give people more of a voice. The smaller parties might have a chance at seats. The NDP would certainly pick up a few more depending on who did the re-districting. The main problem standing in the way is that Toronto would get more seats. Told you there would be screaming. As per the Liberals capturing 42% of those votes that were cast... something tells me that we won't hear this complaining if there were a federal election and Mr. Harper captured 42% of the votes cast... he would have his majority government then wouldn't he?? As they say: Where you stand depends on where you sit!
  274. Vern McPherson from writes: Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'My god in heaven look at the sore losers here today WOW !!!! What's their reaction going to be when harper gets his political a$$ kicked ? They'll go nuclear !! '
    Perhaps that is the only way we will see those coal plants decommissioned in the near future. Blaven.

    ----------------------------
    Good point !! LOL !!! We could burn em in Nanticoke.

    In fact I am in favor of more Nuke power plants. And smaller local nuke plants too. That should shake up some dumb pigeonholing COns LOL !!! Libs too !
  275. Rick La Rose from Ottawa, Canada writes: Honestly, Ontarians want to be left alone to go about their business. They want small government, low taxes but decent services. They want an Ontario where business can thrive with a perfect balance of worker rights.

    Ontarians, for the most part, do not want governmental regulations as they're usually offered as a form of promises which are rarely kept.

    Ontario needs a Libertarian party, a classical Conservative or Liberal form of government that pushes for Civil Liberties and Human rights all the while ensuring that Ontarians get the services they have grown accustomed too by limiting governmental waste (such as beaurocratic waste and paper pushing) and ensuring things get done all the while respecting every tax payer dollar and every Ontarians privacy and Liberties.

    Everyone wants to be left alone, yet everyone wants to impose their views onto others. Quite frankly we need a lot of self reflection. We need to look at ourselves first and make changes in our own lives to ensure that we're not hypocrites.

    I live my life the way I want, so long as I don't infringe on your civil Liberties then I should be allowed to live it as such. Your moral beliefs are your own, teach them to your children and live them up in your own household but don't go around trying to shove them in other Canadians faces.

    This is why Canada is in shambles when it comes to voter turnout. We're just tired of being lied too, promises not being kept, and told how to live our lives. Governments should mainly focus on fiscal issues as well as services. They should not be allowed to impose their moral Liberal or Conservative beliefs upon us. It creates division and hatred and a great divide amongst the Western and Eastern Canadians. We see it on these boards when Albertans and Toronto folk dish it out.

    Clear Grits.
  276. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Mike Dupuis writes: 'I support a single school system. We should eliminate the Catholic Separate School Board. '

    Well Mike, if you voted Liberal you may be surprised to know that McGuinty was Taught in a Catholic School, and his wife is Catholic School Teacher.

    The only party who had a platform against all public funding for religion in schools was the green party. NDP and Liberal were for status quo, and Conservatives wanted to level the playing field.

    Either way, it will be challenged in court, and McGuinty will have to make a decision - fund all or none.
  277. The Bubble from Toronto, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot want special status for those who voted.
    Seeing as how everyone who wanted to vote for John Tory probably did yesterday, it would mean we would have to only listen to all those losers for four year.
    Nasty people always fighting the tide of history.
  278. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Many Albertans think the erosion of values in our society is to do with the boom economy, truth be known, it is really the faith based schools. Except for the Catholic one of course, they are of real value to society.
  279. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: Well, Canadian Patriot, let me explain it this way: if the majority of Canadians preferred Conservative culture, we would have 11 provincial and territorial governments, and a Conservative federal majority. That we do not have these things is a clear expression of the fact that Conservative culture is in the minority in Canada. It's not that hard to figure out.
  280. The Electorate are hopelessly Brain Dead from Canada writes: Liberal Elitist from Windsor, Canada writes: To all you who thinks that the Liberal government cheated and lied and broke promises because he raised taxes when he said he wouldn't. Canada is a socialist country, that's why we have the medicare, and public education. If we don't pay for these services through a little bit of taxes, we will have to pay with an arm and a leg when we get sick or injured. Which is it that you want? The free medicare or couple of dollars off of your pay cheques.

    ========================================

    I think I'm gonna puke
  281. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: 'I guess the Catholics were right all along. They are the chosen ones. '

    You are referring to the Jewish Faith. Christians believe Christ sacrificed his life so that all colors and creeds could be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven.
  282. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Vern McPherson: So many points, so little time as I am working and you are not:
    Lets see if can make this quick while I finish my coffee.

    Law that prohibits governments in Ontario from hiding deficits: This comes down to accounting practices. There are many different accounting methods. Corporations and government have been using the for centuries. The accounting method used is the one that most benefits them. Unless you are going to pick on accounting method and outlaw the rest this lay you speak of is a farce.

    We have a surplus: 1/ How can you have surplus when you have a debt? Any presumed surplus should pay down the debt. In which case you have no surplus. 2/ Any government surplus is the direct result of over taxation.

    LOWER class sizes. My kids class sized are the same size they have always been. In face one of them has a larger class than previous years.

    More money in education. Education does not need more money. It needs to be managed better. Throwing money at a problem just gives bad administrators more rope the hang them selves with.

    teaching striking: Why should they when the government rolls over and given in to all of their demands. Even the unreasoable ones.

    Growth in the economy, GDP, employment, population, revenues, lower unemployment: This has nothing to do with government. Market economy drives most of this. Most government policy that tries to control this is damaging.

    HC premium costing my family 1500 a year: What is your point. We work hard to earn our money. Have nots like you do not have an entitlement to it. If you want more money then get a job.

    Disables: We need better retraining for these people. Not just hand outs.

    Lower wait times. Really. Ever been to emerg. lately or waited for an operation? Wait times are the same as they were 5 year ago.

    Grow up Vern.
  283. No use for a name from Toronto, Canada writes: Not sure what I'm more disappointed with - McGuinty's victory, or the pathetic voter turn - out.

    Although I think Tory really shot himself in the foot by making faith - based school funding an issue, I still think he would have made a better premeir than the one we have now.

    I must say, I also have alot more respect for Hampton for berating the media's focus on faith based school funding, and not focusing on the real issues that are affecting average Ontarians.
  284. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: whoever wrote:

    'I hated the Harris government but I never resorted to attacking the city during those years even though I saw a lot more homeless people on the streets after his regime cut social programs'

    I have not seen any improvement since Harris left office many years ago. Over the last 4 years there are ALOT more people on our streets. But go ahead and feel good for re-electing a d#fuss. You get that nice warm fuzzy feeling inside but little else happens.
  285. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Vern McPherson writes: 'Good point !! LOL !!! We could burn em in Nanticoke. In fact I am in favor of more Nuke power plants. And smaller local nuke plants too. That should shake up some dumb pigeonholing COns LOL !!! Libs too ! '

    HAHA... I am glad the point was not wasted on you, especially since I am Conservative. HAHAHA
  286. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Reality Check 'a majority of Ontarians (54%) wanted MPP.'

    No. Check the election website or another paper. 63.2% voted against it.
  287. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Reality Check from Canada writes: 'Actually, a majority of Ontarians (54%) wanted (sic) MPP.'...can you please share with us the actual numbers behind your claim? Everything I have seen in the press indicates that MMP was soundly defeated by a 2:1 margin...it wasn't even close...that would translate into only something like 33% voting for it.
  288. Huh... What? from Canada writes: I was actually thinking of moving to Toronto but not any more. Boy, people in Ontario are a bunch of dumb sheep. HAHAHAHA
  289. Vern McPherson from writes: Rick La Rose from Ottawa, Canada writes:

    ---------------------
    Ontario needs a liberterian party?

    Sure it does. Less tax and better services ? What's that mean ? Perfrectly balanced worker rights ? For who ? Small government ? How ?

    You have liberty already buddy. Just knock the crust off yourself and count your blessings.
  290. Reality Check from Ottawa, Canada writes: Harvey Mushman, read this article.
  291. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Tory was never a 'con.'

    FRANK KLEES IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT LEADER OF THE TORY PARTY IN ONTARIO.

    (but only interim)
  292. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Found the actual results on the MMP Referendum 63% against...37% for. Not even close to a 'simple' majority. Pretty sure bet we won't see this proposal come around again any time soon...sorry fringe parties.
  293. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: Too bad sour grapes make poor wine because we'd have a bumper crop here. According to the extreme rightwing partisan nancy pants the entire province is a bunch of fools.

    Extreme right wing? you are kidding me right...those neo-con days are over. Get a life and stop fear-mongering.

    We will not tolerate faith based schools unless they are Catholic! I guess we are not such a tolerent society after all...limosine liberals! The myth and the reality of Liberal politics is seen in the education issue.
  294. Pete H from Canada writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Pete H: I asked you a question...answer it (if you can!)
    Read the post again goof, you've attributed the wrong post to me. And I don't responded questions from simple sources.
  295. Len Thompson from Toronto, Canada writes: RED Ontario prevails again. Their vote confirmed many things, one of them being that there is no salvation for Ontario. Communists own it. So for those who are suffering under the regime, just leave this province and move to more fertile grounds. The rest of Canada does not inherit this trait of stupidity and the choices are plenty. You have to move on and join your own kind, those who have some decency and values still left in them. Those are the people that prevent this country from becoming Sodom and Gamorrah. Ontario has confirmed they want to become that with Toronto already leading the way. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SodomandGomorrah)
  296. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Mcguinty's re-election plays right into Harper's hands. As Ontario continues it's apathetic hate relationship with it's provincial liberals it will not affect negatively on the federal PC's. Traditionally Ontarians have federally voted to the opposite end of the spectrum than they have provincially. Another lucky stroke for Harper is that the faux wedge issue over faith based schools does not fall in the realm of federal jurisdiction.
  297. T. Scott from Canada writes: Paul Jacobelli from Toronto, Canada writes: The problem I had with MMP was that it enabled 39 MPPs to sit in the legislature and not be responsible to a constituency. Their votes in the legislature would be governed by the party leader that appointed them to the list and not voters in their ridings (which they wouldn't have). To me this allowed lifetime politicians the chance to be even more secure. They only had to please the leader to be on the list. The more they pleased the leader the higher up they would be on the list. That's a recipe for deadwood.

    Hear hear, worth repeating. That's always been my main arguement against proportional representation. I'm not sure I agree with the second part of your post though. I think the smaller the riding the easier it would be to gerrymander seats. Gerrymandering will always happen to some extent or another so we always have to be vigilant and be on the lookout for it. Look what Tom Delay did in Texas.

    I still think the traditional parliamentary system is the way to go.
  298. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: 'Well, Canadian Patriot, let me explain it this way: if the majority of Canadians preferred Conservative culture, we would have 11 provincial and territorial governments, and a Conservative federal majority. That we do not have these things is a clear expression of the fact that Conservative culture is in the minority in Canada. It's not that hard to figure out. '

    Not to mention the Conservative landslide in NFLD!
  299. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: Don Adams from Canada writes: Trish. Quite a concept...I didn't know it was an option....probably most people don't. I've always advocated going out to vote, but just placing a large X right across the ballot as a protest vote if you didn't like anyone running.

    Don Adams, I didn't know about the Decline option either until the day before the actual voting .. a letter writer to the National Post included the information in his comments. I only had enough time to verify the fact that a Decline is an actual official vote and officially recorded as such. It would be interesting to know how many other people would have used this voting option if enough knew about it. I intend to find out if they are counted and totalled and then I would like to pursue what can be done if a high enough percentage of the voting public register a Decline - 'None of the above'. I would rather go through another election with all parties having to go back to the drawing board on their platforms knowing that none of them are properly representing the wishes of the people of our province.
  300. Howard Young from Canada writes: Yes, ideally we should see higher voter turn out. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the people of Ontario have spoken. If you have an understanding of statistics, you'll know that these results reflect the will of Ontario's citizens. The concept of a sampling is that the sample used reflects the same characteristics of the population (not population in the people sense), provided that the sample is drawn randomly. In our case, we have a sample size in excess of 50%, so the sample is extremley reliable in representing the characteristics of the population, especially since it's unlikely that a particular type of voter is more likely to vote then another (i.e. Liberal vs. Conservative). If anyone is hanging on to the notion that if more people had voted, this would have changed the outcome, just let it go.

    As for the MPP system, in my personal opinion it deserved it's fate. Last thing I want is an unelected single issue party in the legislature. For example, if a fringe party like the Marijuana Party (or some other wingnut party) managed to obtain 2% of the popular vote but did not actually successfully elect a candidate in a riding, they would still win a seat. That's a scary thought.
  301. The Bubble from Toronto, Canada writes: This ones really over, to all the cons out there who lost, relax, it's only four years or so until the next one.
    In the meantime Ontario will change even more away from conservative ideology.
    We need to save the public education system now so it can never be threatened again.
    Stop funding Catholic High Schools!!!!
    Bush and Harper will soon be gone.
    Amen
  302. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Vern's not working because he's retired. AKA 'he's old.'

    Likely sucking the life out our tax funded health-care system so he wants the Mcshifty dollars to keep coming in for the next 4 years to keep him around.
  303. Vern McPherson from writes: Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....

    COns stupid ideology needs doom and gloom. Otherwise it won't work enough to hoodwink voters. Check out last might ? See what voters believe ? Ontarians are so prosperous these days they didn't believe the COns doom and gloom. Simple as that !!
  304. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: 'I guess the Catholics were right all along. They are the chosen ones. '
    You are referring to the Jewish Faith. Christians believe Christ sacrificed his life so that all colors and creeds could be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. '
    Only if they accept Christ as their savior. The Jews are the future chosen ones the Catholics have already been chosen. Remember if you are not a Catholic, you go to hell, Ratzinger has just stopped the public rhetoric.
  305. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Canadian Patriot 'I am Conservative. HAHAHA '

    You keep typing that, except of course that you have yet to express an opinion or marshall an argument that is clearly conservative or libertarian.
    Weird.

    Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: 'I guess the Catholics were right all along. They are the chosen ones. '

    'You are referring to the Jewish Faith. Christians believe Christ sacrificed his life so that all colors and creeds could be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. '

    But the old chosen people were not chosen to get state-paid faith-based schools in Ontario. Only one faith was chosen to get state-paid faith-based schools. God's chosen special people in Ontario. Mcguinty catholics.

    Christ may well have sacrificed his life (sort of, he came back to life, right?)so that all colors and creeds could be welcomed into the kingdom of heaven. But his sacrifice did nothing to help kids of all colours and creeds having the opportunity to be welcomed into their own state-paid faith-based schools in Ontario. Unless you worship a guy in Rome. Chosen indeed!
  306. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Reality Check...re: MMP...thanks...somehow I missed that in this G&M article...unfortunately it is incorrect. The actual number of voters who voted for MMP is really only 37%. Where they came up with the 54%...who knows.
  307. SingleDad TO from Hamilton, Canada writes: Just know, that when McGuinty bends us over with more tax hikes and continues his non-action on the energy plants, Caledonia and gives away tonnes more money to liberal supporters, I will be one of the first to say I told you so....

    People in Ontario astound me. Lets make one issue, which is unpopular, over-ride the entire fact that this party has broken more promises then they kept and gave millions of dollars to liberal supporters without cause....
  308. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: klm, klm - if you want to understand why people like myself consider the present 'right wing' movement extreme, please see Len Thompson's comment two posts below yours. I quote:

    '...there is no salvation for Ontario. Communists own it. ...suffering under the regime...You have to move on and join your own kind, those who have some decency and values...Those are the people that prevent this country from becoming Sodom and Gamorrah.'

    That's a perfect encapsulation of why persons of a conservative (or 'right wing') culture are, and will remain in a minority position.
  309. John Silverman from Canada writes: Election results indicate a huge support for Liberals OUTSIDE of Toronto. So why would anyone point at Toronto for this??? Look it up please before posting untruths.
  310. Marg. K from Canada writes: Another 4 years of Dalton, and what will he accomplish this time.

    - Another 40% raise (hmm. is he using the extra new health tax he introduced) and early vacation

    - showing that he cares about the enviroment

    Alot said at the debate, lets just what he does now or NOT
  311. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: M Horon - very true. A number of conservatives made that same observation last night. Also, bear in mind that those Ontario Tories that felt robbed last night are likely to campaign harder in the next federal election. Had Tory won, well, we would have rallied around him in his struggle with Harper.
  312. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Canadian Patriot, licking your wounds? Hurtin this morning lad? John Tory is out lookin for a job and thats great for the rest of us in Ontario. Think of it, if he had been successful
    1) More schools than Tim Hortons
    2) 400 Series hiways all tolls
    3) Hospital beds closed, nurses on the picket lines
    4) Kids at home with parents, teachers on the picket lines
    5) War at Caledonia, Harris hired as gestapo to clean up
    6) Poor all die off, rich pay no taxes, sell off assets to pay bills.
    7) Close coal plants, buy power at twice rate from Quebec
    Need more. Great win, great for our province. Let John get back to private life and earn a real dollar.
  313. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: The Bubble from Toronto, Canada writes: This ones really over, to all the cons out there who lost, relax, it's only four years or so until the next one.
    In the meantime Ontario will change even more away from conservative ideology.
    We need to save the public education system now so it can never be threatened again.
    Stop funding Catholic High Schools!!!!

    AS if this will happen!

    But harper will get a majority...what does Bush have to do with CDN politics?
  314. Don Adams from Canada writes: Cryin Outloud. Au contraire. The people I run across on a day to day basis certainly knew what MMP was all about, and voted against it...... it's all about SIGS, who can't win honestly in a riding, (because most people in the riding just don't agree with them), trying to do an end run around the elections act and get representation in Parliament they're just not entitled to. eg. Cheat to get their own way, which is quite typical of SIGS. To top everything off, MMP means added cost to government, unelected individuals voting on issues, plus the possibility of an endless succession of minority governments. All in all, a bad idea.
  315. Taz Mania from Canada writes: This election puts us almost into the range of intelligence in Ontario as the last US federal election put the Americans. Only 50 percent of Ontarians voted and those that did, voted for a leader that managed to keep few to none of his party's promises. What this tells me is that Premier McFly played the political game effectively and we all fell for it. He assured only one negative issue (faith-based school funding) dominated the campaign. And this also confirms that if we are doing fairly well in their own lives, we will just vote for the status quo. We accepted the devil we know last night, and I only hope he doesn't live up to his record of his previous term.
  316. Mike Dupuis from Canada writes: For Canadian Patriot: I did excercise my rifght to vote. I simply wasted my vote. But I am not whining about the turn out. I also couldn't bring myself to voting Liberal this time.

    Couldn't vote Green or NDP either. I am a nuclear worker, and they also have a platform against nuclear. I was left with no choice.

    But I did get to exercise one of the greatest powers we have in a free world. 'THE RIGHT TO VOTE'.
  317. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: The Bubble 'Stop funding Catholic High Schools!!!!' You must be confused. If that's what you want then the *worst* guy won! dalton will never allow anything bad to happen to his catholic schools. never.
  318. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Sorry Pete H, I can't seem to spend more than a split second reading your comments before moving on....
  319. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....

    COns stupid ideology needs doom and gloom. Otherwise it won't work enough to hoodwink voters. Check out last might ? See what voters believe ? Ontarians are so prosperous these days they didn't believe the COns doom and gloom. Simple as that !!

    Tory was NOT offering doom and gloom. MCguinty was pedalling this over the last few weeks. Did you forget what he said would happen if faith based schools were introduced? It would drain money from the TSY which could be better served paying our friends. Society would falter and the sun would fall into the ocean as it has in India and England....sounds like that doom and gloom you're talking about.

    Mayor Miller was elected on a one issue platform...the bridge to the island. Here we have Mcguinty on a one-issue election...need I say more
  320. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: Low voter turnout is a systemic problem right across North America. Most people are not happy with the options presented to them. Tough situation because it isn't easy to run for office and (supposedly) work toward the public good, but if people are going to run, they should run for the right reasons and do more to uphold our precious democracy. How lucky are we that we have this right to vote, that is essentially unfettered by corruption, and yet we don't. Not many people know about the option of going to the polling station and officially declining your ballot. Expressing your dissatisfaction with the system by not voting or spoiling your ballot does nothing. Declined ballots however are counted as a refllection of voter dissatisfaction. All this said, it is sad that our province has not had a real visionary leader for years. Almost every single one has been wishy-washy, mean-spirited or just plain dull. Where are the leaders who take chances, who are grounded yet passionate about moving us forward and who inspire people to WANT TO VOTE? Nowhere to be found... Equally sad is the fact that more people vote for a reality show like Canadian Idol or So You Think You Can Dance than they do for the people who shape and govern their societies. Maybe we need a reality show called So You Think You Can Lead, and the winner gets to be Premier/Prime Minister.
  321. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Norman Dupuis writes: 'That's a perfect encapsulation of why persons of a conservative (or 'right wing') culture are, and will remain in a minority position.'

    Norman, please. If you actually think this is a representation of Conservative supporters, you might as well say something equally as daft like 'all chinese look the same'.

    Don't be such a small minded bigot.
  322. Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: N N from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.'

    Oh do dream on. The only reason the Greens got a pop vote bump was for their elimination of catholic school funding proposal - which was something of an unforeseen afterthought in the green 'platform'. Frank de Jong couldn't run a 3-gallon aquarium let alone this province. But he does share much of the responsibility for draining new dip support in ridings like Davenport. Mission accomplished, Frank. Be sure to cash that cheque from Dalty soon.
  323. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: This result is interesting for several reasons; for one, it demonstrates that NOT ALL Progressive Conservatives (yeah, I know oxymoronic character of the name) are . . . religious nutbars. . . . what a bitter pill for some. HA HA !
  324. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberals Steal - Canadian Patriot is a Liberal hack in disguise. Anytime a Liberal or NDP-leaning poster argues a PC/CPC standpoint, C.P. responds with insults rather than reasoning. This leads the insulted to think that there is no reasoning for PC/CPC actions and galvanizes his/her opinion. It is clever and I suspect it lead to a lot of McGuinty votes yesterday.
  325. Vern McPherson from writes: Let's see now ......................

    Bush and his crowd are out, Iraq winds down, COns in Ontario have been embarassed to death by profound stupidity, stevie is on the ropes with his dictatorial Stalinism, ...........

    Yep, ...... good time to be Canadian living in Canada.
  326. Glengarry Redneck from Williamstown, Canada writes: A few have suggested it is time to make voting mandatory. I know they have such a law in Australia. If you don't vote you pay a fine, not a huge fine, maybe $20 or so. In fact it costs the government more to administer the fine than the revenue it brings in. But from what I heard, it works. At least I believe their voter turnout is a lot higher than ours. Can anyone out there provide further details?
  327. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada point taken...but you said extreme right-wing. Please do not tell me you base your opinion on a few remarks, most likely exaggerated, on the G&M.

    Tory is a small c con. Right wing is not evil....
  328. mike sty from Canada writes: Reading through the posts, it seems the shallow- minded right minority is having difficulty accepting what Ontario voters said last evening. In a democracy the majority ( in FPTP) wins, .....or do the right prefer the dictatorial style of Harpers New Minority? Least Dalton and Danny got majorities, something Harper can only dream of.
  329. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Don Adams - I agree with you about MMP (I voted nay) but I'm thinking that there are a lot of Tories that wish we had it in place last night.
  330. Reality Check from Ottawa, Canada writes: I see from the Elections Ontario website that you are correct Harvey. The G&M should clearly update this article with the correct referendum results. I still note the irony that proponents of FPP declare it is a superior system, yet it couldn't it be trusted to decide the referendum.
  331. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot - well, then, explain it to us: if 'conservatives' form the majority of the voting population, why can't they (you) win majorities in provincial or federal elections? Again: it's not that hard to figure out - you do not form the majority.

    And thanks for the bigot remark. I appreciate it when people aren't afraid to show their true colours.
  332. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Only for a short time, eh verne.
  333. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: 'Mayor Miller was elected on a one issue platform...the bridge to the island. Here we have Mcguinty on a one-issue election...need I say more '

    No. I think that adequately frames Torontonians as the mindless, selfish, thoughtless bunch they are, people that scare easily and fail to concern themselves with the most important issues long enough to stop being slaves. Enjoy.
  334. Kevin H from Calgary, Canada writes: 42% turnout? WOW, if only we in Alberta can get more than 25% voter turnout.......
  335. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Liberals Steal - Canadian Patriot is a Liberal hack in disguise. '

    You should hop back on your meds Emperor Josh.
  336. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Glengarry Redneck - alternatively, Brazil has a rule that if you want anything from the govt, business/farm subsidizes, govt grants/loans/bursuries, welfare, EI etc, you have to demonstrate that you voted or explain why you didn't vote. It ended up creating a culture where voting is taken very seriously.
  337. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: People...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WASTED VOTE. B/c your team does not win does not mean that it's wasted. Being a part of the process will always be more important than the outcome.

    For those that do not vote they should not complain about anything political! Unfortunately, non-voters have that right to complain but not vote and will never be called to account.

    get out there and vote...every election. IF not move to a country, Myanmar, where they do not have this right.
  338. Rob C from 905, Canada writes: The best way to settle this funding issue: get rid of Separate School funding - then no one has ammunition to complain about fairness, equality or government sponsored segregation...
  339. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot says 'You should hop back on your meds Emperor Josh.'

    Thank you for proving my point.
  340. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Reality Check 'I still note the irony that proponents of FPP declare it is a superior system, yet it couldn't it be trusted to decide the referendum. '

    RC you are betraying your inability to think.

    FPP is identical to the proposed 'MMP' when there are only two choices. Like for example, in a referendum. So you might as well say the advocates of MMP declare it is a superior system yet it couldn't be trusted to decide the referendum. Duh.

    It was a stupid idea. It's gone. Move on.
  341. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....Doom and gloom ....
    ___________________

    If you were verne's age you'd see doom everywhere too. He's selfish: he votes for anyone who throws money at things he needs: healthcare, pension, welfare, disability, etc.

    Hell, if Hampton promised 'free internet connection' to the old and weary and not too bright, verne would be wearing orange every day! LOL!
  342. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Norman Dupuis writes: 'why can't they (you) win majorities in provincial or federal elections?'

    Ummmm... Norman, what province are you living in right now? You realize you live in province that votes blue pretty much up and down both provincially and federally.

    You must be an Easterner soaking up that oil money with a sponge. It's quite fortunate that the Cosnervative Government out there affords you such opportunity isn't it?
  343. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: 'Mayor Miller was elected on a one issue platform...the bridge to the island. Here we have Mcguinty on a one-issue election...need I say more '

    No. I think that adequately frames Torontonians as the mindless, selfish, thoughtless bunch they are, people that scare easily and fail to concern themselves with the most important issues long enough to stop being slaves. Enjoy.

    Could not agree more. I hear Miller has infringed on CDN Mint trademark and is being sued! I hope he pays for the lawyers out of HIS POCKET!
  344. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Canadian Patriot 'You should hop back on your meds Emperor Josh. '

    Sure, right after you explain why you call yourself conservative yet have not expressed a single thought that could be understood by any 'conservatives' ?
  345. The Bubble from Toronto, Canada writes: Apparently Sodom was known for it's pottery before Lot's wife got there.
  346. J Kay from Canada writes: Glengarry Redneck: Wonderful but to what end. We could simply make voting mandatory and jail time a punishment for failure to do so but what do we achieve in the end by having more people vote? Will it really be more the will of the people? Do you think the overall results would have changed or would it, as I suspect, really have just meant more ballots to count without any impact results wise.

    It would be nice to see more people vote for the same reasons I think many would like to - it's a privledge which shouldnt be taken for granted - however, that said, forcing people who either do not wish to vote or don't want to take the time to educate themselves with regard to who to vote for hardly seems like it would be beneficial in the main. So what would be gained by this other than saying our voter turnout was higher? I'd be happy if only 10% of the people voted but those 10% were knowledgable, informed, and capable of understanding the issues, not only at a person level but also a provincial one.
  347. Reality Check from Ottawa, Canada writes: Liberals Steal-- I can think just fine. I learned in grade 1 math that 50% plus one makes a majority, not 60%. You're a class act.
  348. Vern McPherson from writes: klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes:

    ----------------------------------
    Fool you. Read the posts here this mornig pal and weap. Doom and gloom everywhere ........... Ontario in the tank, i'm moving out, more higher taxes, citizens are stupid . .bada bada bada ........

    And what kind of a gutless name is that ?

    Need I say more ?
  349. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Thank you for proving my point. ' re: 'You should hop back on your meds Emperor Josh.'

    And what point was that? The fact that you are delusional. Why would anyone really support liberals, but pose as a conservative? You defy logic.
  350. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Kevin..... you should check the Elections Alberta website. The last election had 44% voter turnout and 52% the election before that. It's low, that's true, but it's considerably higher than 25%.
  351. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: KLM - I describe myself as a lost Conservative. I'm socially to the left of the 'spectrum' and fiscally to the right. So, presently in both Alberta and Ottawa, I have zero representation.

    Tory made a juvenile mistake, but not an unfortunate one, because he made a conscious choice to pander to a minority in order to win a majority - a classic mistake (see Prime Minister Harper on the gay marriage issue last federal election).
  352. Seb D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Stop whining about poor voter turnout, and go get the vote out.

    Until then, those of us who take the responsibility to get off our a$$es and vote will get to decide the future of our province. Besides, I'm not sure if a 100% turnout would have produced a vastly different result, or are you all implying that only Conservatives don't vote???

    Democracy is such a bit@h, ain't it?
  353. David Wright from Toronto, Canada writes: Banofee Pie read my post from earlier today (why low voter turnout isn't a function of the options presented to them but rather a rational decision by the voter to maximize their utility).
  354. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: 'What does all that tell you choice ? It tells you your views are not in the majority and shut up till the next election. Or go to court like stevie suggested. Sue me he said. If your group gets elected you can repeal something and pass what you want. And when the Supreme Court strikes your bull$hi! law down you complain to whom ? And it wasn't a woman, .... it was a male cancer patient who turned and walkes away from McGuinty immediately upon making his statement. Once again you can't be accurate because you don't want to be accurate. It diminishes your silly ideology if facts are stated. That's YOUR prob fella. Not the electorate's problem. Get used to it.'

    So what you are suggesting is that we should have dictatorships in 4 year blocks? Because my party of choice did not win means that I have no voice? If that is the case Vern why are you still talking about federal level politics. After all, your party of choice did not win so by your reasoning you should stop complaining about it until the next federal election. As for my opinion not being part of the majority; 58% of the people voted against Dalton McGuinty.

    Honestly Vern, your insolence really makes it hard to have a real discussion. Mature people can have a discussion where they disagree and still keep it civil. Resorting to vulgar insults, as you have done, is something I would expect from an uneducated, immature mind.
  355. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: klmklm klmklm from Toronto writes: 'Could not agree more. I hear Miller has infringed on CDN Mint trademark and is being sued! I hope he pays for the lawyers out of HIS POCKET! '

    Well he can add that to his infamous fabrication about the United Nations declaring Toronto as the most multicultural city in the world (part of the Toronto 'Unlimited' marketing campaign that was pulled because of the lie).
  356. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberals Steal writes: 'Sure, right after you explain why you call yourself conservative yet have not expressed a single thought that could be understood by any 'conservatives' ? '

    Ummm...sure... care to point me out to an opinion I posted that is not consistent with Conservative policies?
  357. B Lam from Canada writes: Bill M from Canada writes: N N from Toronto, Canada writes: Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.

    Many voted for the Green as a protest to the other 3 parties. I don't think the Green will have any power in the foreseeable future.
  358. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: stevie is on the ropes with his dictatorial Stalinism, ...........

    Did you happen to see the the last Decima poll?
  359. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Canadian Patriot 'Why would anyone really support liberals, but pose as a conservative?'

    I don't know, but you do. You defy logic.
    Are you 12 years old or something? Because you don't make adult sense at all.
  360. B to the A to the R to the T from the left coast., Canada writes: I guess if they gave you as many ways to vote as on 'Canadian Idol' more people may have voted. If you can file taxes online, why can't you vote? If you don't keep up with the times, you'll go the way of the cassette tape.

    As for the results, Mr. Tory does not belong as a party leader. He could not dislodge more than a few seats from what was an unpopular gov't. He got spanked. In the end a good day for the middle of the road crowd we avoided a hard turn right in Canada's most populous province.
  361. A True Political Junkie from Ottawa, Canada writes: Everyone here is missing the point ... 1) the faith based funding issue was Dalton McGuinty and his pit bull Warren Kinsella playing the race card ... after all was it not Warren Kinsella and company that dreamed up the 2000 federal campaign plan to brand Stockwell Day as an anti-Semite? 2) turnout was abysmal and i am frankly sick and tired of hearing voters tell me how 'all politicians are the same'. All politicians are not the same, but the behaviour of the voter, with the complicity of a media that focuses on what is of interest to them, has made politicians feel like they need to pander. When someone tells us the truth, we punish them.

    I have come to the conclusion that we have to make voting mandatory ... yeah, yeah, anti-democratic as it may seem to 'force' someone to meet their civic duty, but we fine people all the time for things that they do or do not do. So what is the big deal? See what happens when you don't pay your taxes.
  362. Canadian Patriot from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberals Steal from Canada writes: 'I don't know, but you do. You defy logic. Are you 12 years old or something? Because you don't make adult sense at all. ' re:'Why would anyone really support liberals, but pose as a conservative?'

    HEY ... Wingnut ... care to point out something specific I said that is not conservative? I can only think of one exception - and that is that the electric car should be mandated.
  363. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Norman Dupuis - I would argue that Canada is, in fact, a fiscal conservative (note the small 'c') nation. The problem is that fiscal conservatism is like Buckley's cough syrup. It is good for what ails you, but it can leave a bitter taste. Example, the GST. Horribly unpopular, but without it, Canada could not rack up successive budget surpluses like it did. Socialism (classic lefty and social conservatism) is much more exciting, more passionate. But it is ruling by emotion rather than reason - and ultimately it gets rejected. Conservative parties in Canada have fallen prey to social conservatism at the party level which is why they get tripped up at the polls. Consider, Harper went into a guaranteed win, pulled out a socon plank (SSM) and whittled a majority to a minority. Tory fell into this trap too, by making a promise targeted towards socons - and lost. Danny Williams, on the other hand, is fiscal conservative (and I suspect gunning for the PM job) and he wins handily.
  364. Vern McPherson from writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: Vern's not working because he's retired. AKA 'he's old.'Likely sucking the life out our tax funded health-care system so he wants the Mcshifty dollars to keep coming in for the next 4 years to keep him around.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Clarky so far this morning you told us you hate Muslims, immigrants, anyone who dresses differently than you , anyone who is a different color than you and old people. How old is old for you ? 50, 55. 60 ?

    Does this mean the COns will shoot the old people and those who are different from them once harper wins his majority in his new Stalinland ? Do I prepare now or for the year 5132 ?

    Hey everyone, ... harper has clarky's vote. He'll get a blue star for telling it like it is.

    Bigotry, ridicule and stirring up racism are harper policies. Look at him attack half a dozen veiled Mulsim women in an election campaign.

    Canadians love that sort of thing clarkie. You ARE a winner !!!
  365. tl best from all star canada, Canada writes: Well Ontario...u get the leadership you deserve....the lie is in charge again...i am so glad I got out of teh GTA when I did....shame on you !!!!
  366. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty

    HAHAHAHAHA
  367. Vern McPherson from writes: Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Glengarry Redneck - alternatively, Brazil has a rule that if you want anything from the govt, business/farm subsidizes, govt grants/loans/bursuries, welfare, EI etc, you have to demonstrate that you voted or explain why you didn't vote. It ended up creating a culture where voting is taken very seriously.

    -------------------------------------------------
    Move to Brazil.
  368. Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: verne, take your pills. If Mcquinty doesn't pay for them, I'll chip in to help you out.

    Was your colon treatment covered?
  369. B Mac from Roachvale, Canada writes: Proof yet again that people still do prefer to be governed by deception. Dalton can thank Bill Davis for that one. He should appoint John Tory to be a provincial judge. He's shown that he's well qualified.

    Now let's see how McGuinty puts the Faith Based Funding Issue to bed. Will he stop funding the Catholic Schools? Or maybe just put the whole thing back under the big fat liberal rug? There are ways to solve the issue, but methinks no one will have the stomach for it.
  370. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Vern 'stirring up racism are harper policies'

    Kinsella just won a whole election by stirring up racism and bigotry and making it the only issue in the campaign. Racism, bigotry and special treatment for one european religion are liberal policies. Sadly, they win elections.
  371. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: B to the A to the R to the T from the left coast: If those who did not take the 15 minutes to vote on a piece of paper, they would, most likely, not take the time to vote on any new system, no matter how many bells and whistles.

    As for your idea of Idol type voting, too complicated - technically, too open to abuse and fraud, and definitely against all sorts of Privacy Laws.

  372. Chico Tanto from Toronto, Canada writes: This is the most boring election campaign I have ever seen in my life and I have been in quite a few countries, Europe, Asia and etc..
  373. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Vern - come now, are you going to pull a Canadian Patriot? I am merely suggesting a means of increasing voter turnout. There is a logic to it, that if you are getting something from the govt, that you should return something to it (ie a ballot).
  374. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: B Mac 'Now let's see how McGuinty puts the Faith Based Funding Issue to bed. Will he stop funding the Catholic Schools? '

    You know what he will do. He will extend funding to other faiths in order to protect his family's beloved pope-based schools. Bank on it.
  375. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Vern - plus, I like snow.
  376. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberals Steal - I'm hoping he offers school credits/vouchers actually. Why should private schools be left out of the mix?
  377. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: A True Political Junkie from Ottawa: 'we have to make voting mandatory'

    Making voting mandatory gives you the illusion of participation but it does not guarantee a voters deliberation of policy.

    You'd get the quantity but the quality is suspect.

    Education of this hard won right is the only way to ensure greater participation.
  378. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Emperor Joshua Norton 'Danny Williams, on the other hand, is fiscal conservative ..and I suspect gunning for the PM job'

    Maybe he's gunning but there is zero chance for him. No premier has made the transition to PM, least of all one with a 'Give it all to my region and screw the rest of the country' attitude like he has demonstrated.
    Zero chance.
  379. proud canadian from Canada writes: McGuinty is no Bill Clinton!!!

    Ontarians will wonder why Mc Guinty in a couple of years...
  380. Hugh Albert from Canada writes: I wonder how many of the nasayers voted in the election? From the tone it should have resulted in a Liberal loss.
  381. Norman Dupuis from Calgary, Canada writes: Joshua - Your point on Canada being a socially conservative nation is correct. Successive Chretien majorities moved themselves to the 'right' fiscally and Canada wound up with a religion-tinged Reform Party for the 90's that had zero hope of being anything but a (semi-) effective opposition.

    The one true stumbling block for the federal Conservatives presently is that they have to stop behaving like evangelicals: i.e. join us or burn in hell. There is some evidence of the willingness to change in their 180 on environmental issues. If the party is prepared to move even a little towards where they're now pointing, Canadian voters will forget their initial denial and accept a change in the party plank.

    Name calling (Afghanistan) and berating your opposition (in public, usually in foreign countries) every chance you get and behaving like bullies might play well to the present Conservative choir (I wouldn't even call it their base), but it isn't going to win enough support from persons in the political centre.
  382. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Liberals Steal - I'm hoping he offers school credits/vouchers actually. Why should private schools be left out of the mix?

    Josh that's my preferred solution too. Dalton will never do it. He's not for school choice, charter schools, parents rights and so on as drivers of increased quality and improved outcomes in education.

    He will create only religious schools, no secular excellent schools, and add them to the public school boards thus creating more unionized teachers and keeping a tight rein on choice and lowering the risk of them excelling and embarrasing him. He will do this only to protect his beloved catholic schools and for no other reason. Coincidentally he will deliver extra fat union dues from these schools to his buddies who campaigned so much for him.
  383. Dwayne Allan from Canada writes: So that's what PC stands for. Poor Crybabies!!

    Oh no, it's the end of the world!!

    'McG only got X% of the vote and he got a majority?' He got more than Tory and that's how it works.

    Good to see at least a few Tories are big enough to accept it without all the sobbing and the bile spewing. (ie. Don Adams, see your man sqeaked in Don and good for him/you. PS. it was the PC's who chopped the funding to the MNR and MoE, McGuinty just hasn't fixed it and hopely will. He's got nothing to boast about there.)

    John Tory obviously didn't have the confidence of the voters and lost. Even PC supporters had lost faith in him and you crybabies are angry because he wasn't elected?

    Funny how you call those who didn't follow your wishes are idiots when in fact, even PCer's weren't swallowing what Tory was preaching.
  384. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada: Good points about MMP. I agree that the issues must be investigated rather than blindly voted in favour of just because of popular public opinion but that still leaves the fact that 58% of voters did not want the Liberals in. These voters have their concerns that will not be addressed because the Liberals do not hold their views. So in reality policy will be set for 42% of the population while the other 58% must simply live with it. In some cases these policies may be good but in other they may be not so good. I don't know that MMP was the correct solution but I do not believe that FPTP is right either. The idea of a party forming a majority with only 42% support leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It somehow seem unfair to the 58% who did not want the Liberals in power.
  385. Vern McPherson from writes: Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: stevie is on the ropes with his dictatorial Stalinism, ........... Did you happen to see the the last Decima poll?

    --------------------------------------------
    Polls mean nothing to Harper. His support is up and down like a Whore's bloomers - like everyone elses. Besides he says he won't govern by poll results or radio talk shows. WOW, .. that was a biggie lie.

    ROTFLMAO !!!
  386. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: The turnout is low because there aren’t really any standout candidates.

    I&8217;m not from Ontario but I wouldn&8217;t want to vote for any of them if I lived there. It&8217;s like choosing between a broken arm and a broken leg. I rather not choose and hope that whatever comes is the least painful.

    Good luck Ontario.
  387. Vern McPherson from writes: Clark The Mighty Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: verne, take your pills. If Mcquinty doesn't pay for them, I'll chip in to help you out.

    Was your colon treatment covered?

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    More ad hominum clarkie ? More cheap name calling ?

    Why don't you stick to cheerleading. You are SO good at that...........

    I asked you a question. Will you and the Harper COns shoot the old people to save money on health care costs ?
  388. Liberals Steal from Canada writes: The choices 'The idea of a party forming a majority with only 42% support leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It somehow seem unfair to the 58% who did not want the Liberals in power. '

    Which is why a run-off election could possibly help. I'd like to know who the second choices of many green supporters are, even of the NDP. You may well be surprised.
  389. D I from Toronto, Canada writes: Post # 1 - AU GT:

    How dare you insult Bill Clinton like that! lol I loved Clinton, but McGuinty is worth about as much as my recycling. Good for one use. Unfortunately though, people in this province are mentally disabled.

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